Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

Figured I'd give my own thoughts on the aesthetic changes thing.

- Peach should use Perry as her parasol recovery. It wouldn't change the move, but I think it'd be a nice callback.
- Change Lucina's victory quote against Marth...it's incredible out of character. Ludicrously so.
- From what I remember Cloud was a union issue, but Marth and Roy should be voiced by Yuri Lowenthal and Ray Chase in the English versions from now on. Especially Marth, since Yuri's voiced him for three whole games at this point.
- Have Greninja become Ash-Greninja in its Final Smash animation without otherwise changing the move.
- Little Mac's power meter should stay the same when in Wireframe mode, but be replaced by stars when in default mode. It'd still fill up the same way though. Maybe change the animation to an uppercut too without altering the hit box.
- Swap Pac-Man's down taunt with his idle animation. Have the thumbs up be the taunt and him laying down wi ghosts flying around him be his idle animation.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

How many Game and Watch players played Melee?

How many Ice Climber fans played Melee?

How many Kid Icarus diehards played Brawl?

How many Duck Hunt enthusiasts played Smash 4?



WFT wasn't added to appeal to her weight-watching adult fanbase. She was added because her franchise was well-known and Sakurai thought it would be a unique concept.

Those were retro characters. Wii Fit Trainer was not a retro character. I see that difference as significant enough that your comparison is inapt.

 

[PeridotGX]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

*Give Cloud an English voice.

* Give Bowser his modern voice.

*Give Link a BOTW alt.

*Make Female Corrin the default.

* Change it so Jigglypuff comes out of a Love Ball.

Who thinks Maxwell from Scribblenauts would be a cool newcomer

I'd like him, but he's as likely as Lars from Steven Universe.

 

[Cosmic77]

Those were retro characters. Wii Fit Trainer was not a retro character. I see that difference as significant enough that your comparison is inapt.

So Sakurai needs to wait 20 years from now before WFT would be a fair addition?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Those were retro characters. Wii Fit Trainer was not a retro character. I see that difference as significant enough that your comparison is inapt.

Why?

Like... does being a retro character matter in this context?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why?

Like... does being a retro character matter in this context?

They did look a lot like odd comparisons, so...

That said, Wii Fit Trainer doesn't have a reason to be cut, and she's just a recent character from a well-selling game that was added for the surprise factor. Also, didn't the Wii U have a Wii Fit game? I don't think she's getting cut at all. Outside of a reboot, anyway.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I'd like for to remain on the roster but I'm not gonna be shocked if she's cut for Smash 5.

 

[Staarih]

While being an oddball choice, WFT is still a rep of a series like all the other characters in Smash. She represents the Wii Fit -series which consists of three games thus far and sold collectively over 40 million copies, quite impressive really. So even if they stop making "Wii" or "Wii Fit" games, WFT will just remain as a character from a well known, "dead" series, much like Captain Falcon and Ness/Lucas I guess. Not being relevant hasn't been a reason for cuts ever, I don't think.

 

[Luminario]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

More heart effects in Peach's moves. I'd also love to see a win anim use the rainbow.
Flashier win anims for Zelda. In fact, flashier win anims all around.
Let Robin actually use telekinesis in their attacks. If they can spin the sword in a taunt, they can spin it for a flurry attack.
A Sheik harp taunt or win anim would be pretty nice, especially if she plays a random ocarina warp tune.
Lastly, I'd like to see the hair and dress physics work better, cause sometimes they look pretty clunky or stiff.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

-Cloud gets an English VA.
-Bowser, Diddy and DK get their official voices
-Lucina would appear from the portal that appears in Awekening, rather than the generic ring of light.
-Olimar would have some voice. He says his name in Pikmin 2 and actually speaks in an invented language in Pikmin 3.
-Louie would be an alt for Olimar.
-During the entrace animation and the Final Smash, when having Alph as a skin for Olimar, he wouud use the S.S. Drake rather than the S.S. Hocotate.
-Mewtwo would be voiced in English, not just in Japanese.
-R.O.B. would be more toy like (at least for some alts), like how he appears in the Smash 2 mod.
-Why the Duck Hunt Dog has his eyes half closed? I would change that.

If we include the cut characters
-Snake would wear different suits from different games as his alts. Besides the MGS2 one he wears in Brawl, he would have the OctoCamo from MGS4 and the Sneaking Suit from MGS1 and MGS3.
-Wolf design would be more based on his StarFox 64/Zero appearance rather than his Assault one.
-Pichu would be the Spunzorek one.

 

[A Scrub]

I can't be the only one but I really hope there is a Japanese and English voice option in smash 5.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I can't be the only one but I really hope there is a Japanese and English voice option in smash 5.

I'm surprised we don't have this at all.

Many languages already exist and are used. I can somewhat get Brawl, since that was pushing it for the amount of data it held, on both sides of the disc. Wii U and 3DS versions? Uhhhh... what's the issue?

 

[Cosmic77]

-Mewtwo would be voiced in English, not just in Japanese.

Forgot about that. I would really like to hear Mewtwo with an English voice.



So I just found out something interesting. Apparently, BotW has just passed up both Majora's Mask (876,575) and Phantom Hourglass (908,343) in Japan's sales, making it the second best-selling Zelda game in Japan. That's a pretty impressive accomplishment when you consider how mediocre the franchise is over there. If it can miraculously pull out a little less than 290,000 more sales, it'll steal the number one spot from Ocarina of Time (1,257,205). This raises my expectations for a BotW newcomer considerably.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

.....oh dear LORD he would be terrifying with a 3D model.....
Assuming you know what's underneath what you see on the screen....

Never watched the show but I just looked it up

Spoiler: NME Salesman

Shorter than Edward Elric (but only by a small margin )

He's coming right back at ya for sure!

 

[A Distant Demon]

RE: WFT
reminder. WFT was chosen to show off Smash. They were put up there with Mega Man and Villager. Takes that as you will

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

Schnee beat me to VAs. . .and Shulk
Shulk's arts being named better
Shield ---> Armour (british VA joke goes here)
Buster ---> enchant

Speed, Jump, and smash don't really have alternatives though
Schnee also beat me to FS, but replace Reyn replacing Riki, with Melia.
Luigi losing his "lol so weird" personality as much as possible. And for the love of god give him a decent official pose. His Brawl pose was amazing, and yet the smash For one became an amiibo. . .
Corrin working on their voice lines. "good"
Dr. Mario replace that one bad taunt that's so bad I can't remember it with a better one.
Samus using a differetn design than Other M.
ZSS wearing Jet Boots over jet heels.

Good point on the Lucina line opo

 

[Deleted member]

They did look a lot like odd comparisons, so...

That said, Wii Fit Trainer doesn't have a reason to be cut, and she's just a recent character from a well-selling game that was added for the surprise factor. Also, didn't the Wii U have a Wii Fit game? I don't think she's getting cut at all. Outside of a reboot, anyway.

...no, she may have been someone that was noted to be unexpected, but she wasn't added because of that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...no, she may have been someone that was noted to be unexpected, but she wasn't added because of that.

I thought that was the reason. Whoops. It was cause of well-selling, right? I can't remember.

 

[Deleted member]

PLEASE give DK, Diddy, and Bowser their actual VAs...

it just feel so wrong to hear them make generic animal noises.

As much as I like DK's, Diddy Kong and Bowser's generic animal noises, I have to agree with this.
I mean, the have enough sound information to record their game noises. Plus the animal noises are slightly being less realistic, so what is the point with the animal noises?

If Corrin comes back, something needs to be done about those victory quotes.


"Good."
"Well."
"I win."

- Corrin, 2016

Spoiler: -

Congratulations to Corrin for having the easiest victory scenes.

 

[Deleted member]

I thought that was the reason. Whoops. It was cause of well-selling, right? I can't remember.

That was very likely the reason she was considered, but ultimately the reason she got further than just "considered" was the unique style of fighting he saw out of her.

 

[Baskerville]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

Have the Hyrule Warriors versions of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf be their default skins. Hyrule Warriors Dorf is his best incarnation imo.
Luigi entering a stage via the Pixelator.
Peach having Perry, and using him for her blocking animations.
Samus' Dash Attack having the Speed Booster visual effect.
Have Rosalina's grab encase people in a Pull Star bubble.
Palutena's dodges and rolls having the visual effect of the Bumblebee power up from Uprising.
Falcon having more fire effects for his attacks.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

If I were in charge of fixing parts of presentation of Smash at this point, most of what I would change has been mentioned already:
*Marth and Roy now have their English VAs Yuri Lowenthal and Ray Chase respectively; Lucina (apart from a decloning) gets more in character, and Corrin's personality gets fleshed out more.
*Give the DK Crew their cartoony voices again - and same thing can be said for Bowser at this point.
*An option for an English or Japanese voiceovers for most of the cast.
*New voice clips for Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. Link could most likely get his Champion's Tunic as an alternate costume, while Zelda could get a design overhaul in general. Ganondorf; while not present in Breath of the Wild, could have a design loosely based on Breath of the Wild - perhaps a combination of the Barbarian Armour and the Gerudo Voe costume in Breath of the Wild.
*Monado Arts given more accurate names, and the characters who appear in Chain Attack change from match to match - One time could be Dunban and Melia, the other
*Minor one that's more character rather than gameplay, give Falco an Arwing to use as his Final Smash.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

The most obvious aesthetic changes would probably be the following...

1. Bowser Jr. gets 7 recolors of himself, increasing his palette options to 15; the Koopalings would still occupy 7 of the 15 color slots.
2. Donkey Kong uses his voice clips made by Takashi Nagasako.
3. Diddy Kong uses his voice clips made by Katsumi Suzuki.
4. Bowser uses his voice clips made by Kenny James. This does not apply to Giga Bowser, however, as he would still maintain his realistic roars; his appearance alone doesn't work very well alongside Kenny James's voice clips.
5. Marth and Roy receive their English voice portrayals.

 

[Megadoomer]

For aesthetic changes, I'd like to see Wario and Corrin have their current alts (classic Wario and female Corrin) as their defaults. English voice acting for Marth, Roy, and Cloud would be ideal, though from what I recall, wasn't there some sort of legal or union issue preventing Cloud's VA from voicing him for Smash 4?

Sonic could probably use new voice clips as well; from what I recall, a lot of them were re-used from Sonic Colours or Generations as opposed to something recorded for the game. (Also, we need "You're too slow!" back) A special victory quote if he beats Mario would be nice (similar to Fox vs. Falco, Robin vs. Lucina, etc.), though not necessary.

Also, like others have said, changing Corrin and Lucina's victory quotes, to make them more interesting or in-character.

 

[Tailisu10]

Sounds
- Updated victory themes, it bugs me that they just reused brawl's, they should also update the voice acting whenever possible.
- Give every character their own unique victory theme
- Original game voices for DK, Diddy, Bowser and the Pikmin captains.
- Customizable Dual Audio so you can set any character's language individually, I remember seeing a game do this once.
- Better audience cheers, I have no idea why they're so crappy in Smash 4.
- Give the characters more sound effects from their source games in general.
- More unique character specific victory quotes.
Visuals
- Turn the character portrait's name in the style of their own series, just like a certain smash 4 mod.
-Give every character with alt. character/gender their complete 8 alt. colors. (and give Wario all of his alts back.)
- If they're not going to consider making other Pikmin captains as unique characters, then turn them into alts and rebrand Olimar as "Pikmin and Captain."
- Differentiate characters that have too many similar alts. (coughCloud)
- Give characters with generic entrances animations better and unique ones, it's disappointing how some have uninspired entrances like Rosalina's, Bowser Jr.'s, Cloud's and Shulks and it's ridiculous how almost all of the Fire Emblem characters have the same one.
-Give the Zelda characters, excluding Toon Link, original designs that takes inspiration through their series appearances.
- Turn Palutena's green towel into hair.

 

[Opossum]

Sounds
- Updated victory themes, it bugs me that they just reused brawl's, they should also update the voice acting whenever possible.
- Give every character their own unique victory theme
- Original game voices for DK, Diddy, Bowser and the Pikmin captains.
- Customizable Dual Audio so you can set any character's language individually, I remember seeing a game do this once.
- Better audience cheers, I have no idea why they're so crappy in Smash 4.
- Give the characters more sound effects from their source games in general.
- More unique character specific victory quotes.
Visuals
- Turn the character portrait's name in the style of their own series, just like a certain smash 4 mod.
-Give every character with alt. character/gender their complete 8 alt. colors. (and give Wario all of his alts back.)
- If they're not going to consider making other Pikmin captains as unique characters, then turn them into alts and rebrand Olimar as "Pikmin and Captain."
- Differentiate characters that have too many similar alts. (coughCloud)
- Give characters with generic entrances animations better and unique ones, it's disappointing how some have uninspired entrances like Rosalina's, Bowser Jr.'s, Cloud's and Shulks and it's ridiculous how almost all of the Fire Emblem characters have the same one.
-Give the Zelda characters, excluding Toon Link, original designs that takes inspiration through their series appearances.
- Turn Palutena's green towel into hair.

With the Fire Emblem cast at least, I'd say the similar entrances make sense. The magic they arrive from is the Warp spell, which appears in various Fire Emblem games, so it makes sense as an arrival method. It's kind of like the Poké Ball entrances for most of the Pokémon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Aesthetic changes?

Hmm, some are hard to say.

Mario - If Cappy isn't part of the moveset, make it some of the costumes' cap.
Wario - Default is Wario Land and 8 costumes
Bowser - Dry Bowser alt, not just color
Sonic - Some colors that are a shade similar to some of his friends. Like how he has a costume resembling Silver a bit. So shades of Purple, Yellow, Red, Pink, etc.
Yoshi - A Boshi costume would be great, especially if Cloud is part of the base game.
Pikachu - A full 16 costumes, using the female alt for the second half, along with the various ones from Gen VI(if I remember right which Gen it was. Like Pikachu Libre).

Try to give everyone a unique victory theme, even if it's just a remix. Makes it more fun and exciting overall.
Language options. All of 'em. This is fun and interesting, to see the various things you can hear.

 

[Deleted member]

At the very least, removing them can give you extra time to work on new clones. Plus, Sakurai tends to cut clones first anyway. If I had to take a guess why, it's probably because he wants to avoid cutting more unique characters and making fans upset.

I just read this, so late response.

The reasons why clones "tend to get cut first" very likely has to do with the idea that they're more "expendable", thus they are saved for later in development and get in if there's time, and don't get in if there isn't.

That being said, Brawl was the only time where a majority of the scrapped characters were clones.
In general, we lost:

In the transition from Melee to Brawl and:
()
In the transition from Brawl to Smash 4 (with Lucas coming back later in DLC).

Mewtwo wasn't a clone of anybody (except Mew, BA DUM TCH!), and was the only character who wasn't a clone to get scrapped in the jump to Brawl. While Falco and Ganondorf have stayed despite being clones.
HOWEVER, data shows that he, Roy, and Dr. Mario were at least planned to return, but were on the lower end of priority compared to the rest of the cast (same with Jigglypuff, Toon Link, Wolf, Toon Zelda/Sheik, and Dixie Kong once the Diddy/Dixie idea was axed). And ironically, all three would end up coming back in Smash 4, Dr. Mario in the initial release and Mewtwo and Roy as DLC.

Pichu and Young Link however, were not so lucky. Though Young Link can be explained by Toon Link's presence, meaning Toon Link effectively replaced him as the smaller Link clone, but Pichu has no such explanation. There are theories that an oddly named character file is for Plusle and Minun, and that they were supposed to replace Pichu, but we have no official confirmation or further proof that they were.

But the point is, the only two characters in Melee that weren't meant to return for Brawl were Pichu and Young Link. And the reasons weren't just "because they're clones".

As for the jump to Smash 4, we only lost two clones/semi-clones (not including Snake, who is a literal clone of Big Boss ) in Wolf and Lucas. And unlike before, we have no way in knowing whether they were meant to come back or not. But Lucas at the very least came back through DLC. Personally, I'm not sure Wolf was meant to return since he missed out on both the initial release AND DLC despite being a relatively easy addition with no other reasonable excuse to his absence.

The Ice Climbers were directly stated to have been planned to return, but 3DS hardware limitations prevented that.
Pokémon Trainer was likely scrapped when characters like Zelda/Sheik and Samus/Zero Suit Samus had to be split due to again, 3DS hardware limitations, with only Charizard of his Pokémon staying.
Snake, being a 3rd Party character, likely had some rights issues that prevented his return. Both for the initial roster and DLC. We don't know this for sure as Sakurai and Konami have been rather tight-lipped about Snake and Smash 4.

All the other clones stayed, including the newer Toon Link.

Long story short, no, Sakurai doesn't tend to just cut the clones first, or cut clones for the sake of adding brand new ones.
And since the trio take the least amount of work out of all characters, it's not likely they'll go anywhere unless "oversaturation" becomes an issue.
Which really only applies to Dr. Mario and Lucina since Kid Icarus won't be getting any new characters anytime soon.

 

[Krysco]

Finally caught up with the thread (was only like 3 pages behind) and just wrote down some quick points I wanted to respond to:

Blood Hawk as Falcondorf: I'm personally not a fan of the idea just because that means giving up on Ganon's bigger frame which means Blood Hawk would be less of combo food and would have shorter range. As already mentioned, Black Shadow more closely resembles Ganondorf's build.

Someone mentioned how the only unique characters we lost were Snake, Lucas, Mewtwo, Squirtle and Ivysaur iirc and Wolf wasn't added to that list </3. Dude only shares the specials with his fellow spacies and even then, they have their own nuances, except for Reflector basically being Fox's. Jab, ftilt, dtilt, utilt, dash attack, all throws, fair, bair, dair, uair and nair all have unique animations with the closest ones being similar being fthrow and bair. Wolf also had the highest air speed of them.

Ike not THE main character of RD. Just something I'm going to nitpick since RD is my favourite game but Ike is one of only 2 characters forced into every single chapter where he's available, the other being Micaiah. This is a trait shared among all lords across every FE game unless one of the early Japanese ones decided to not follow that. Ike also gets far more chapters than Micaiah in part 3 which is by far the biggest part of the game although Micaiah does get a total of 21 chapters to Ike's 18. Ike is also the one who HAS to defeat the final boss. Micaiah is actually damn near useless against the final boss. You can have more than one main character in a game without there being a single one being THE main one. Just seems arbitrary. Also, and this is probably just me but I just read in disappointment when I saw all the games Robin has been in when most of them are thanks to dlc or are spinoffs. Like, real talk here, Robin has been SIGNIFICANT in one FE game, one ACTUAL FE game, that being Awakening. You can have him in Heroes or Fates or Echoes or whatever but he's not plot important (I admittedly say this without having played Echoes yet despite owning it since launch but it's a remake of an older FE game so if Robin somehow has plot significance then...**** me). Ike is significant in 2 games to Robin's 1. Not to downplay Robin, he IS one of the important characters in the game that brought the series back.

I'm personally for the idea of a new director as opposed to Sakurai again just to see how things get changed, if at all. I'd especially love it if the new director didn't have a 'take away' mentality that has plagued the series ever since Brawl (save for Cloud and Bayo).

Lastly, I keep seeing people saying that WFT should stay since she has a unique moveset. So did Mewtwo and he got cut from Brawl. Sure there's data to show he was planned but time constraints are a thing. Who's to say WFT won't be put near the bottom of the priority list when the next Smash game comes? I personally won't care if she comes back or not, I don't use her but obviously her coming back would make her fans happy.

 

[Deleted member]

Continuing with the aesthetic changes discussion, what I'd like to see is about the trophies of the playable characters.

It may be something minor, but I'd still love that the fighters' trophies go back to the style Melee had, as to know "classic" trophies representing them as they appear in the universes they come from, "regular" trophies representing them as they appear in Smash, and the ones with their Final Smashes.

And what would be even greater is that the fighters' "classic" trophies would be obtainable by regular means, like gallery, shop, collectables in solo modes, etc., including those of the hidden characters, thus, the surprise effect would be even better once you unlock them without knowing they are in the game.
For example, imagine is not in the base roster. You're not aware it's an hidden fighter. You got a "classic" trophy of it. Then you trigger a character-unlocking match, you see that is your opponent and you go like "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO--".

 

[Awesomeperson159]

Victory themes for 64 veterans:
Mario, Yoshi, DK, Samus, Falcon, Ness, Link, Fox, Kirby, Jigglypuff all have their regular themes
Luigi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdoI0lUYDw
Pikachu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNNX51Sh5-w
Melee veterans:
Ice Climbers, Marth, G&W, Falco stay the same
Peach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR4pxv14FLo
Bowser: First bit of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIUaDfy5AA
Dr. Mario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8YIatTP6jc (loops)
Zelda Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKLAUNc58iA
Sheik Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIm_22ivIuU
Ganondorf Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S4h1gcCMBc (first few notes)
(Young link was replaced by Toon Link but Toon Link's is the same)
Pichu (if implemented) is same as Pikachu
Mewtwo: https://youtu.be/8Cw3vfuHh_A?t=10s with ending
Roy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0KmQtKZNm4 (First 6 seconds)

I should really do my homework (and/or hold a Bandana Dee Rally. )

 

[Cosmic77]

Long story short, no, Sakurai doesn't tend to just cut the clones first, or cut clones for the sake of adding brand new ones.
And since the trio take the least amount of work out of all characters, it's not likely they'll go anywhere unless "oversaturation" becomes an issue.
Which really only applies to Dr. Mario and Lucina since Kid Icarus won't be getting any new characters anytime soon.

You make a good point, but I'm still skeptical on their return. Looking at past cuts, there's two factors a lot of characters have shared. The first is that most cut characters have been newcomers. The second is that more than half of the cut characters were a clone of sorts. Lucina and DP fall into both of those categories, and the Doc has already been cut once before. You mentioned that we don't know if Wolf and Lucas were ever planned for Smash 4. That's a huge red flag to me. Brawl had no full clones and only three semi-clones (). All of the characters from Brawl that got cut have a specific reason why they didn't make it. All except Wolf and Lucas. So why did they get cut? Oversaturation obviously wasn't an issue since neither of these franchises exceeded three characters. Time restraints could have been a possibility, but that doesn't seem likely seeing how their specials were given as custom moves. We've never gotten a solid answer on this, and there's no hidden data that suggests that someone was supposed to replace them. The only conclusion I can come up with is that Sakurai dropped them because they were clones and less of a priority. I could be totally wrong on this, but I can't think of any other way to explain this.

Maybe I'm being too cautious on this, and maybe the clones have a better shot than I think. Still, I don't feel confident in giving them anything better than a 50/50 chance of returning.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You make a good point, but I'm still skeptical on their return. Looking at past cuts, there's two factors a lot of characters have shared. The first is that most cut characters have been newcomers. The second is that more than half of the cut characters were a clone of sorts. Lucina and DP fall into both of those categories, and the Doc has already been cut once before. You mentioned that we don't know if Wolf and Lucas were ever planned for Smash 4. That's a huge red flag to me. Brawl had no full clones and only three semi-clones (). All of the characters from Brawl that got cut have a specific reason why they didn't make it. All except Wolf and Lucas. So why did they get cut? Oversaturation obviously wasn't an issue since neither of these franchises exceeded three characters. Time restraints could have been a possibility, but that doesn't seem likely seeing how their specials were given as custom moves. We've never gotten a solid answer on this, and there's no hidden data that suggests that someone was supposed to replace them. The only conclusion I can come up with is that Sakurai dropped them because they were clones and less of a priority. I could be totally wrong on this, but I can't think of any other way to explain this.

Maybe I'm being too cautious on this, and maybe the clones have a better shot than I think. Still, I don't feel confident in giving them anything better than a 50/50 chance of returning.

Ironically, Lucas did return as DLC.

Anyway, in regards to the Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina ordeal, it's only really Dark Pit who's highly identical to Pit in almost everything; the only notable differences are their standard special, side special, and Final Smash. Dr. Mario and Lucina at least have more notable differences when compared to Mario and Marth respectively.

Dr. Mario is slower and deals more damage overall than Mario, and even his special moves don't operate the same way as Mario's special moves; the capsules can't be absorbed, while Super Jump Punch only delivers a single hit. Whereas for Lucina, her sword has no sourspots, so she can deliver the best possible results, no matter where her sword hits. Of course, a balanced sword does mean that Lucina's attacks KO later than Marth's tipped hits.

With that said, I'm more concerned about Dark Pit's future, since he really doesn't have much that separates him from Pit.

 

[Cosmic77]

Anyway, in regards to the Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina ordeal, it's only really Dark Pit who's highly identical to Pit in almost everything; the only notable differences are their standard special, side special, and Final Smash. Dr. Mario and Lucina at least have more notable differences when compared to Mario and Marth respectively.

Dr. Mario is slower and deals more damage overall than Mario, and even his special moves don't operate the same way as Mario's special moves; the capsules can't be absorbed, while Super Jump Punch only delivers a single hit. Whereas for Lucina, her sword has no sourspots, so she can deliver the best possible results, no matter where her sword hits. Of course, a balanced sword does mean that Lucina's attacks KO later than Marth's tipped hits.

With that said, I'm more concerned about Dark Pit's future, since he really doesn't have much that separates him from Pit.

I agree that Dark Pit is in the worst position of the three, but I think Lucina is closer to DP than Dr. Mario in terms of uniqueness. Aside from damage output and a few different animations that are completely aesthetic, Lucina's entire moveset is identical to Marth's. Dr. Mario is the only one of the three with some major differences from the character he was cloned from.

 

[GolisoPower]

With that said, I'm more concerned about Dark Pit's future, since he really doesn't have much that separates him from Pit.

I’ve actually thought of some changes to make him de-cloned:

- Replace his Neutral B with the Doom Cannon. When charging it greatly reduces Dark Pit’s speed, but it fires a dark orb that works similarly to Palutena’s Explosive Flame when it hits.
- Have Dark Pit’s normals and Smash attacks use the Pandora Claws instead of the Silver Bow. Pandora was associated with Dark Pit’s creation, so it makes sense.
- Change his Electroshock Arm into an forwards-leaping command grab. It loses the projectile reflectivity in favor of hitting three times when landed.
- Since Dark Pit’s FS is too similar to Zelda/Sheik’s, I’ve thought of a way to change it: instead of just one shot, a mountain appears in the background of the stage and Dark Pit flies up to the summit. From there, a reticle appears on screen and Dark Pit can shoot multiple times from the mountain. The shots themselves do as much damage as it did before, but the knockback is reduced by 25%.
- Dark Pit’s Up-Special would leave behind a trail of leaves (Considering that Dark Pit is on Viridi’s side as proven in his Palutena’s Guidance). When inside these leaves, Dark Pit and teammates will be healed over time while opponents will be damaged over time.

 

[Ura]

https://www.businessinsider.in/nint...with-a-long-lifespan/articleshow/62509255.cms

If this turns out to be true then it's possible we could see two Smash Bros games on the Switch. One being a port and the other a new game.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

• Insert "giving English voices to those who don't have them" statements here
• Try some fitting crossover costumes and more true alternates costumes
• Charizard should fake being asleep out of boredom as a taunt. Gives Charizard more personality.
  
• Pikachu should have a female option to show off that minor Pokémon mechanic.
• I'd like Team victory animations (in pairs to save time) and more special post victory lines/animations (like between Mario & Peach, Link & Zelda, and some more.)
• Insert "Give dual audio option for menus and voices" statements here.
• And updated victory themes, reusing Brawl's ones was a bit of a let down. Sonic Mania's Act Clear for Sonic anyone?

 

[Chandeelure]

Mewtwo's Dair should have a darkness effect when you hit opponents, because it doesn't and it clearly shows a dark explosion.
Also its get up attack should be electric like in Melee because it was cool.

More of Jigglypuff's attacks should have sparkles like Rollout because it is cute and because... Fairy... yeah.
Jigglypuff should also have "pain sounds", because it doesn't scream when you hit it since Brawl.

Pikachu should transform his tail in steel with some attacks.

Ness should have a less extreme scream because he is kinda annoying when you hit him.
Same with Bayonetta.

Fox should have a less nerdy voice.

Bowser should use his shell when shielding.

Lucario should run like Naruto.

Some of Meta Knight's slashes should have fire or darkness.

 

[IronTed]

Forgot about that. I would really like to hear Mewtwo with an English voice.



So I just found out something interesting. Apparently, BotW has just passed up both Majora's Mask (876,575) and Phantom Hourglass (908,343) in Japan's sales, making it the second best-selling Zelda game in Japan. That's a pretty impressive accomplishment when you consider how mediocre the franchise is over there. If it can miraculously pull out a little less than 290,000 more sales, it'll steal the number one spot from Ocarina of Time (1,257,205). This raises my expectations for a BotW newcomer considerably.

Off topic, but your info is incorrect. BoTW is far from being the 2nd best selling Zelda in Japan. The original sold 1.69 million, Zelda II sold 1.61 million, OoT sold 1.46 million, and ALttP sold 1.16 million. This is via Gamedatalibrary. Should add, numbers are shipments, not sell-through. Tracking in the 90's was less accurate.

https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search

https://www.businessinsider.in/nint...with-a-long-lifespan/articleshow/62509255.cms

If this turns out to be true then it's possible we could see two Smash Bros games on the Switch. One being a port and the other a new game.

I'm curious what Nintendo considers "long". Their home conoles normally had 5 year lifespans, Wii had 6, NES varies on what region you're talking about. 3DS actually got more Nintendo published games in 2017 than Switch, so perhaps long means a 3DS-like lifespan.

2 Smash games would be interesting though, to say the least. We could theoretically get 3 3D Marios as well.

 

[Cosmic77]

Off topic, but your info is incorrect. BoTW is far from being the 2nd best selling Zelda in Japan. The original sold 1.69 million, Zelda II sold 1.61 million, OoT sold 1.46 million, and ALttP sold 1.16 million. This is via Gamedatalibrary. Should add, numbers are shipments, not sell-through. Tracking in the 90's was less accurate.

https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search

Not sure how accurate those numbers are either. The sales for the original are correct, but those Zelda II numbers are way too high. That game sold more than 2 million less than the original worldwide (original sold about 6.5 million; sequel sold about 4.3 million). Unless the game only took a dip overseas, there has to be a bigger difference in Japan's sales than just 80,000.

Regardless of what the real numbers are, BotW is doing well in Japan for a Zelda game. That much is certain.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This makes me think, Diddy Kong must have no longer reason to get the Switch now with TF getting a port.

Holy ****!!! This is QUITE the damn deal maker! Am getting that Switch now! **** this is exciting!!!