Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[IronTed]

Not sure how accurate those numbers are either. The sales for the original are correct, but those Zelda II numbers are way too high. That game sold more than 2 million less than the original worldwide (original sold about 6.5 million; sequel sold about 4.3 million). Unless the game only took a dip overseas, there has to be a bigger difference in Japan's sales than just 80,000.

Regardless of what the real numbers are, BotW is doing well in Japan for a Zelda game. That much is certain.

Gamedatalibrary is reliable and uses official sources unless data is lacking (then Famitsu is used). Also, Japan does not often follow worldwide sales trends. Zelda is proof of this. TP broke worldwide records and yet declined in Japan, quite heavily in fact. A huge decline in the west has also happened to The Wind Waker, so it's not unprecedented. Unless there is a better source, we either take all of these numbers, or none of them. But that is a fair obersvation, for sure.

And of course BoTW is doing great in Japan, but it easily surpassing almost every Zelda game post OoT over there is indicative of how much the brand has declined over there. And how insane the Famicom was over there (Zelda sold 1.69 million on a 4 million installbase, as it was on the Famicom Disc System).

 

[Deleted member]

Holy ****!!! This is QUITE the damn deal maker! Am getting that Switch now! **** this is exciting!!!

Gotta do that Funky New Mode, right?

 

[Ura]

I'm curious what Nintendo considers "long". Their home conoles normally had 5 year lifespans, Wii had 6, NES varies on what region you're talking about. 3DS actually got more Nintendo published games in 2017 than Switch, so perhaps long means a 3DS-like lifespan.

2 Smash games would be interesting though, to say the least. We could theoretically get 3 3D Marios as well.

I'm guessing that it really means the Switch will be the longest console Nintendo has had or that the Switch will last a lot longer relative to the Wii U (which every system did prior of course).

If it's the former then it's not a stretch to say that the Switch can last 7-8 years. If you don't think that's possible just look at how long the 3DS has lasted. Launched in early 2011 and it's still living on in to 2018.

And mind you the Switch has a lot more momentum then the 3DS did. Never say never I guess.

 

[IronTed]

I'm guessing that it really means the Switch will be the longest console Nintendo has had or that the Switch will last a lot longer relative to the Wii U (which every system did prior of course).

If it's the former then it's not a stretch to say that the Switch can last 7-8 years. If you don't think that's possible just look at how long the 3DS has lasted. Launched in early 2011 and it's still living on in to 2018.

And mind you the Switch has a lot more momentum then the 3DS did. Never say never I guess.

The Switch certainly has more momentum than the 3DS ever had, that is true. But the fact the 3DS will have had a longer lifespan than the GBA and DS also proves there is more to longevity than initial momentum. Of course the DS kneecapped the GBA in a rare set of circumstances, but it does show you can never be totally sure.

Granted I too expect the Switch to outlive Nintendo's home console by a fair margin, and rival the 3DS. As you said, never say never.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Fox should have a less nerdy voice.

Fox's voice clips from Brawl would probably be a good start.

 

[Deleted member]

Fox's voice clips from Brawl would probably be a good start.

How about a new voice clip? I like his Brawl one and his Melee one, but I am sure fans would want the Melee one more than the Brawl one.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

How about a new voice clip? I like his Brawl one and his Melee one, but I am sure fans would want the Melee one more than the Brawl one.

Nah, Brawl one is best. I think most would agree with that.

Same with Falco.

Same with Wolf.

 

[UserKev]

But as of now, he IS a one-shot villain. So I'll ask again, what makes the likes of a Zora or Goron character, like Mipha or Daruk, so seemingly out of place in comparison to Ghirahim?

Let me demonstrate.

*** We're out of significant Zelda characters for Smash! Wait! I got it! Lets thrown in recurring races from the series instead of making exceptions, which makes Smash interesting in the first place.

Ahhh I finally get to play as an uninteresting Goron or Zora. Mipha or Daruk means Nothing! Their recurring characters, in Zelda!

Put them in Smash, and you get Hyrule Warriors.

Man, you fans and your complicated rules. Don't want to think for yourselves. I see a noticeable amount of you loved to be links to Sakurai.

I get that. Haha

 

[Deleted member]

Nah, Brawl one is best. I think most would agree with that.

Same with Falco.

Same with Wolf.

Really? I see Project M and other mods putting the Melee fox voice clip in, or Falco. I do like the Brawl voice clips for Fox a lot though. I am actually slightly attached to the Smash 4 voice ( It sounds kind of nerdy ). A new voice clip would be interesting as I said earlier.

 

[IronTed]

Fox's 64 voice will always warm my heart. It also makes fire fox fun to spam.

On a more serious note, they really need to change his current voice, that much is certain.

 

[Opossum]

Let me demonstrate.

*** We're out of significant Zelda characters for Smash! Wait! I got it! Lets thrown in recurring races from the series instead of making exceptions, which makes Smash interesting in the first place.

Ahhh I finally get to play as an uninteresting Goron or Zora. Mipha or Daruk means Nothing! Their recurring characters, in Zelda!

Put them in Smash, and you get Hyrule Warriors.

Man, you fans and your complicated rules. Don't want to think for yourselves. I see a noticeable amount of you loved to be links to Sakurai.

I get that. Haha

Don't put words in my mouth. I'd gladly take Mipha or Daruk over Ghirahim any day of the week. A water + trident playstyle and an earth power + superheavy club-like playstyle are infinitely more interesting to me than a sword + dagger one.


Ghirahim would honestly bore me at this point, and that's from the guy who thinks Chrom could be really cool if done right.

 

[Deleted member]

Let me demonstrate.

*** We're out of significant Zelda characters for Smash! Wait! I got it! Lets thrown in recurring races from the series instead of making exceptions, which makes Smash interesting in the first place.

Ahhh I finally get to play as an uninteresting Goron or Zora. Mipha or Daruk means Nothing! Their recurring characters, in Zelda!

Put them in Smash, and you get Hyrule Warriors.

Man, you fans and your complicated rules. Don't want to think for yourselves. I see a noticeable amount of you loved to be links to Sakurai.

I get that. Haha

Your comparison to Hyrule Warriors doesn't add up.
Hyrule Warriors didn't add any generic members of a species as playable character. It added characters with roles in the lore of the Eras they came from that are coincidentally of a particular recurring race.

And adding generic members of the races aren't what people are really suggesting in the first place for Smash. They are suggesting the same thing as what Hyrule Warriors actually did; characters important in the lore of their game in origin that just happen to be a Goron or Zora.
No one is suggesting Daruk or Mipha because "Goron/Zora". They are suggesting them on the grounds that the characters in question are Champions. And it's not like Revali and Urbosa aren't being suggested as well, so what is the problem with Daruk or Mipha specifically? Just because they are a Goron or Zora? So Revali being a Rito and Urbosa being a Gerudo makes them ok?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Let me demonstrate.

*** We're out of significant Zelda characters for Smash! Wait! I got it! Lets thrown in recurring races from the series instead of making exceptions, which makes Smash interesting in the first place.

Ahhh I finally get to play as an uninteresting Goron or Zora. Mipha or Daruk means Nothing! Their recurring characters, in Zelda!

Put them in Smash, and you get Hyrule Warriors.

Man, you fans and your complicated rules. Don't want to think for yourselves. I see a noticeable amount of you loved to be links to Sakurai.

I get that. Haha

Once again, you're saying Mipha and Daruk are the exact same as a basic Zora and Goron respectively.

Don't generalize characters like that.

While it is true Zoras and Gorons have had a big role throughout the series, Mipha and Daruk played a major role in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild specifically, which at this point and time is the most recent Zelda game, one of the series' bestsellers, and one of the bestselling games on the Switch. They are also marketed heavily by Nintendo, if the Champions' amiibo is any indication. All these factors give the Mipha and Daruk likeliness to be in the next Smash game. They're not a shoe-in mind you, but it is likely.

You're saying adding in Mipha or Daruk would be like adding a Goomba or Shy Guy in Smash 5 (which for the record I wouldn't mind at all), which is simply untrue.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

We could just cut Zelda out entirely. It’s a dead franchise with little to zero fan support.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Really? I see Project M and other mods putting the Melee fox voice clip in, or Falco. I do like the Brawl voice clips for Fox a lot though. I am actually slightly attached to the Smash 4 voice ( It sounds kind of nerdy ). A new voice clip would be interesting as I said earlier.

Project M is literally Project Melee so... Yeah. I don't remember their voices being replaced though. I played the hell out of it during the beta versions, and a bit during 3 and 3.5(?), And I just don't remember them going so far as replacing their sound clips. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong as I didn't play as Fox or Falco much.

But no, Brawl's voice cast was stellar mostly for the fact that it was Assault's voice cast, with the exception of Wolf, which was done by Namco who has a pretty good track record in voice acting. But even though he didn't do Wolf in Assault, Jay Ward as Wolf was just ****in

Let me demonstrate.

*** We're out of significant Zelda characters for Smash! Wait! I got it! Lets thrown in recurring races from the series instead of making exceptions, which makes Smash interesting in the first place.

Ahhh I finally get to play as an uninteresting Goron or Zora. Mipha or Daruk means Nothing! Their recurring characters, in Zelda!

Put them in Smash, and you get Hyrule Warriors.

Man, you fans and your complicated rules. Don't want to think for yourselves. I see a noticeable amount of you loved to be links to Sakurai.

I get that. Haha

I'm not much a fan of the Champions in Smash either, or really them as characters, but generalizing them as 'just a Zelda species' is really underselling them. And no adding another species from Zelda doesn't automatically make it Hyrule Warriors. That's incredibly close minded.

 

[Cosmic77]

We could just cut Zelda out entirely. It’s a dead franchise with little to zero fan support.

While we're at it, let's cut the entire Mario cast too. No one plays Mario games anymore and Nintendo is doomed.

Man, you fans and your complicated rules. Don't want to think for yourselves. I see a noticeable amount of you loved to be links to Sakurai.

I get that. Haha

Wait, didn't you just create the rule that a Goron and Zora can't be in Smash because they're too boring?

 

[Deleted member]

We could just cut Zelda out entirely. It’s a dead franchise with little to zero fan support.

I wouldn't mind that.

Non-ironically.

Project M is literally Project Melee so... Yeah. I don't remember their voices being replaced though. I played the hell out of it during the beta versions, and a bit during 3 and 3.5(?), And I just don't remember them going so far as replacing their sound clips. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong as I didn't play as Fox or Falco much.

But no, Brawl's voice cast was stellar mostly for the fact that it was Assault's voice cast, with the exception of Wolf, which was done by Namco who has a pretty good track record in voice acting. But even though he didn't do Wolf in Assault, Jay Ward as Wolf was just ****in

Are you sure about that though? Last time I checked Star Fox Assault videos their voices didn't sound the same as the ones they had in Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

I know people are not a fan of adding more third party characters, but I am hoping they all stay. Over-saturation of third party characters would make it non-Nintendo but why remove one of these big icons ( Except for Bayonetta )? (,,,,,). The fact that these five are in Smash brothers satisfies me a lot. Bayonetta is not a big icon however, but she is still nice to see in Smash. I think a few more would be nice, and that is it. ( Add please ).

Edit: How could I forget Sonic?

Project M is literally Project Melee so... Yeah. I don't remember their voices being replaced though. I played the hell out of it during the beta versions, and a bit during 3 and 3.5(?), And I just don't remember them going so far as replacing their sound clips. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong as I didn't play as Fox or Falco much.

But no, Brawl's voice cast was stellar mostly for the fact that it was Assault's voice cast, with the exception of Wolf, which was done by Namco who has a pretty good track record in voice acting. But even though he didn't do Wolf in Assault, Jay Ward as Wolf was just ****in

Hmm, I checked and I could not find it. You might actually be right about Fox in PM only having his Brawl voice.

 

[Freduardo]

So we got one fellow saying that the champions are just generic species reps, which is wrong. They even have weapons and movement unique to them that no other members of their species did.

But then everyone pointing out it’s wrong is ruling out having a goomba or a shy guy or a minion in smash.

I want generic bad guy minions in smash, to be honest.

Twilight Princess bulbins had an awesome design. I picked Dry Bones in Mario Kart when he was available. I loved the foot soldier in Turtles smash up and if I could play as a primid, I would.

Do not dismiss the henchmen and minions. Think how boring your games would be without them.

This message brought to you by the Henchmen’s union local 295.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

We could just cut Zelda out entirely. It’s a dead franchise with little to zero fan support.

Also, Mario, Wario, Yoshi, F-Zero, Earybound, Fire Emblem, Sonic, Bayonetta, Mega Man, Street Fighter, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Animal Crossing, Pokémon, Star Fox, Wii Fit, Game and Watch, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., Pikmin, and Kid Icarus.

And add Steve from Minecraft.











And rename it Epic Minecraft Fighter.







































































And add bandana dee. Perfect game 11/0.10 IGN

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Fox's 64 voice will always warm my heart. It also makes fire fox fun to spam.

On a more serious note, they really need to change his current voice, that much is certain.

Yeah, even the way that Fox says "Landmaster" in Smash 3DS / Wii U sounded stupid. Brawl did better overall with Fox's voice clips.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

a minion in smash

PLEASE NO

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

PLEASE NO

And this is why we need a Paper Mario game with partners again.

Or a Lego Smash Bros. game with tons of various enemies playable as well as all SSB characters(bosses too). >.>

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I wouldn't mind that.

Non-ironically.

H8er

Are you sure about that though? Last time I checked Star Fox Assault videos their voices didn't sound the same as the ones they had in Brawl.

I am 100% on Fox's, I know Wolf's isn't, and I'm unsure of Falco's to be entirely honest.

I know people are not a fan of adding more third party characters, but I am hoping they all stay. Over-saturation of third party characters would make it non-Nintendo but why remove one of these big icons ( Except for Bayonetta ) ?(,,,,). The fact that these five are in Smash brothers satisfies me a lot. Bayonetta is not a big icon however, but she is still nice to see in Smash. I think a few more would be nice, and that is it.

I'm actually a huge fan of third party reps but only if, like you say, they have legacy. In that department I'd say The Doom Slayer is up there, Rayman is a good one, Bomberman would be nice, along with Simon Belmont, Banjo would blow me away, the list goes on. I don't want characters like Yooka-Laylee or Shovel Knight or a random Assassin's Creed character flooding the roster though. I think they should definitely be picky.

( Add please ).

Spoiler

Hmm, I checked and I could not find it. You might actually be right about Fox in PM only having his Brawl voice.

Like I said, I could be wrong but I think PM used Brawl's voice clips. And they're the best so.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I know people are not a fan of adding more third party characters, but I am hoping they all stay. Over-saturation of third party characters would make it non-Nintendo but why remove one of these big icons ( Except for Bayonetta ) ?(,,,,). The fact that these five are in Smash brothers satisfies me a lot. Bayonetta is not a big icon however, but she is still nice to see in Smash. I think a few more would be nice, and that is it. ( Add please ).

I've stated my opinions on the third party's likelihood of returning for Smash 5, but I'll go ahead and share em again.

I cannot feasibly see them cutting . These three are major gaming icons and are probably the most recognizable out of any third party characters we could have gotten. I fully expect PAC-MAN to return if Namco is helping with development again as well.

is 100% getting back in because Bayonetta 3, that and the Bayonetta series is the closest of the current third party franchises to Nintendo sans maybe Sonic the Hedgehog.

is really the only questionable one out of Smash 4's third parties. However, I can see him making the return as he was generally well-received in Smash 4 and Capcom likes the Switch now.

Square Enix is a lot closer to Nintendo now, so is a pretty safe bet for returning.

returning entirely depends on weather Konami is willing to cooperate or not. I personally don't think it's likely considering both Konami and Sakurai have kept their lips shut about Snake in Smash 4, but if there's one thing I learned from being a Nintendo fan my entire life, it's to never say never. I personally wouldn't care if he came back or not, as I never really played as him in Brawl, but it'd be cool if he made a comeback.

As for new third parties, I'm open to pretty much anyone. The Doom Slayer from DOOM is pretty likely, I'd love to see Rabbid Mario with a Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle-based moveset, Banjo & Kazooie would be nice, and Bomerman and Rayman are also pretty likely (though again, the former relies on Konami). If indie games are on the radar, Shantae and Shovel Knight seem to be the most likely picks, and I wouldn't mind Freedom Planet's Lilac either. Agnes from the Bravely series would also be awesome. Plus, Nintendo had to step in and publish the first game in America, so she'd technically be more likely than Cloud

Of course both you and I know half of these will never happen, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[Cosmic77]

And this is why we need a Paper Mario game with partners again.

That reminds me...

Sakurai, if you ever decide to make Paper Mario a playable character, PLEASE let his partners be the inspiration for his moveset. At least a few, okay? I don't want to see such a great series represented entirely by cliché paper-inspired attacks.

is 100% getting back in because Bayonetta 3, that and the Bayonetta series is the closest of the current third party franchises to Nintendo sans maybe Sonic the Hedgehog.

Square Enix is a lot closer to Nintendo now, so is a pretty safe bet for returning.

Bayo has a solid chance of returning, but this is the first time we'll get to see how DLC gets transitioned from one game to the next. None of the DLC character are 100% confirmed to be returning. Not even Mewtwo is completely safe.

Square Enix is completely unpredictable. They let Cloud in Smash, but didn't use his English VA overseas and couldn't be bothered to let Nintendo use any FFVII remixes or trophies. What happens to Cloud in the future literally depends on how Square Enix feels that day.​

 

[Deleted member]

Also, Mario, Wario, Yoshi, F-Zero, Earybound, Fire Emblem, Sonic, Bayonetta, Mega Man, Street Fighter, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Animal Crossing, Pokémon, Star Fox, Wii Fit, Game and Watch, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., Pikmin, and Kid Icarus.

And add Steve from Minecraft.











And rename it Epic Minecraft Fighter.







































































And add bandana dee. Perfect game 11/0.10 IGN

So Metroid, Punch-Out and Xenoblade characters are still in the game right?

So I'd still buy it anyway.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

And this is why we need a Paper Mario game with partners again.

I can 100% get behind that

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

Opps accidentally posted this before I could change it

If Sakuria asked you to put a character in smash who would it be?
But here are the rules only 2d characters and no paper mario

 

[Deleted member]

If Sakuria asked you to put a character in smash who would it be?

Who is Sakuria? Is he your neighbor or the pizza man delivery that visits you when you order pizza?
That is a tough question and I am just going to bet it on Snake.

returning entirely depends on weather Konami is willing to cooperate or not. I personally don't think it's likely considering both Konami and Sakurai have kept their lips shut about Snake in Smash 4, but if there's one thing I learned from being a Nintendo fan my entire life, it's to never say never. I personally wouldn't care if he came back or not, as I never really played as him in Brawl, but it'd be cool if he made a comeback.
Of course both you and I know half of these will never happen, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

Hmm, I do not know. NonSpecificGuy said something that seems to get up my hopes.

"No one talk about snake"

Uhh, dude. I'm here.

Honestly, the reason Snake isn't brought up as much as say the Arms characters or a Zelda character is because, for as unusual as it is, everyone agrees on his circumstances. Snake is beloved and most people would love to see him come back but his chances are REALLY up in the air. Konami isn't a stranger to the Switch nor are they shying away from Metal Gear but you really just can't tell if Nintendo or Konami will have talks to bring Snake back, not do we know if our voices are loud enough to make an impact one way or the other for those talks. Konami may be **** sometimes but I still hold hope that Snake will make it back next time.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Opps accidentally posted this before I could change it

If Sakuria asked you to put a character in smash who would it be?
But here are the rules only 2d characters and no paper mario

I'd probably pick Shantae.

 

[IronTed]

Bayo has a solid chance of returning, but this is the first time we'll get to see how DLC gets transitioned from one game to the next. None of the DLC character are 100% confirmed to be returning. Not even Mewtwo is completely safe.

Square Enix is completely unpredictable. They let Cloud in Smash, but didn't use his English VA overseas and couldn't be bothered to let Nintendo use any FFVII remixes or trophies. What happens to Cloud in the future literally depends on how Square Enix feels that day.​

That's something I never thought about, how they will handle DLC characters from here on out.

First party characters are probably safe-ish. On one hand they got in the game, on the other hand it was only via DLC, so it can go either way. They obviously weren't super high priority.

3rd party characters in general are in a more tenuous position, Cloud in particular will be an interesting case to watch.

There will most likely be DLC characters in the next Smash though, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

So Metroid, Punch-Out and Xenoblade characters are still in the game right?

So I'd still buy it anyway.

There'd be no Metroid or Xenoblade.

Just Bandana Dee, Steve, and Little Mac (as a minecraft character).

EDIT: I've made the roster and I've really outdone myself by doubling that cast!

Masterpiece.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

There'd be no Metroid or Xenoblade.

Just Bandana Dee, Steve, and Little Mac (as a minecraft character).

But Final Fantasy characters are still in, right? I need to play as a minecraft skin Cloud.

 

[Deleted member]

You make a good point, but I'm still skeptical on their return. Looking at past cuts, there's two factors a lot of characters have shared. The first is that most cut characters have been newcomers. The second is that more than half of the cut characters were a clone of sorts. Lucina and DP fall into both of those categories, and the Doc has already been cut once before. You mentioned that we don't know if Wolf and Lucas were ever planned for Smash 4. That's a huge red flag to me. Brawl had no full clones and only three semi-clones (). All of the characters from Brawl that got cut have a specific reason why they didn't make it. All except Wolf and Lucas. So why did they get cut? Oversaturation obviously wasn't an issue since neither of these franchises exceeded three characters. Time restraints could have been a possibility, but that doesn't seem likely seeing how their specials were given as custom moves. We've never gotten a solid answer on this, and there's no hidden data that suggests that someone was supposed to replace them. The only conclusion I can come up with is that Sakurai dropped them because they were clones and less of a priority. I could be totally wrong on this, but I can't think of any other way to explain this.

Maybe I'm being too cautious on this, and maybe the clones have a better shot than I think. Still, I don't feel confident in giving them anything better than a 50/50 chance of returning.

Forgot to reply to this earlier.

Lucas actually does have a possible reason for his exclusion. I've mentioned in the past that Sakurai had no way in knowing Mother 3 would be Japan exclusive when he was added to Brawl, and we know he isn't keen on the idea of those types of characters.
It's notable that Lucas wasn't one of the lower-priority characters of Brawl like Wolf was, yet was scrapped anyway just like him. And yet Toon Link, who was a lower-priority character like Wolf stayed.
So the only logical explanation is that Lucas being a Japan-exclusive character with no foreseeable future of being international is what put him on the chopping block more so than his "clone" status.

Wolf is the only one that could really apply to. But considering he was barely squeezed into Brawl at the last minute (with evidence that implies he was implemented after Sonic) as pretty much an afterthought, it would make sense that he'd be considered the most expendable character of Brawl.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

But Final Fantasy characters are still in, right? I need to play as a minecraft skin Cloud.

Yep, he's a DLC alt costume for steve. Even comes with a custom move set.
And it costs only 2 dollars!...



...to the power of the amount of people who have bought it.

In all seriousness though, speaking of FF, what 3rd party would be your top choice? Shantae or Shovel Knight for me.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

In all seriousness though, speaking of FF, what 3rd party would be your top choice? Shantae or Shovel Knight for me.

Rabbid Mario, bar none

 

[Dragoncharystary]

it would make sense that he'd be considered the most expendable character of Brawl.

Not gonna lie, this hurts......... deeply.

In all seriousness though, speaking of FF, what 3rd party would be your top choice? Shantae or Shovel Knight for me.

That's an easy one for me, Bomberman.

 

[Deleted member]

Not gonna lie, this hurts......... deeply.

Hey, I want Wolf back too, but I ain't gonna sugarcoat things.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

It feels kinda weird that Ike returned for Smash 4 despite not being relevant. Heck, he was the third to last starter veteran being revealed (the next two were C.Falcon, and Meta Knight) I definitively think he returned because he was very popular back during the Brawl era unlike Wolf and Lucas as they weren't very popular back then.