Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Krysco]

Because three newcomers for a single franchise in a single game is going to have people complain for absolutely no reason at all regardless of the franchise.

Just look at Fire Emblem.

Clones and gimmicky characters but it's happened before. Happened with FE too for that matter since Lucina and Roy are a clone and semi clone respectively.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

C'mon, you have to admit that even with the revival following Awakening, FE didn't do enough to warrant tripling it's characters from Brawl.

-siiiiiiiiiiiiigh-

Why do people always think franchise representation is only the characters?

Yes, 6 characters may seem to much for a franchise like Fire Emblem, but that's pretty much all the representation it gets aside from music, few trophies (though no one cares about those) and one stage (not counting Coliseum, that one is way too generic and could practically pass for a Kid Icarus stage due to the way it looks)

And with the huge cast of characters FE has and the potential they can have, we're actually just barely scratching the surface with those 6.

Clones and gimmicky characters but it's happened before. Happened with FE too for that matter since Lucina and Roy are a clone and semi clone respectively.

Fair enough, though your examples are from the Mario, Zelda and Pokemon franchise.

I'd say they're probably the exception to what I said since they're Nintendo's biggest franchises.

 

[Ura]

As a long time K. Rool supporter, the idea of Funky making it in over him doesn't really go well with me.

I'm sure Funky would have his neat little niche on the roster of course. Just don't want him over a character that his significant importance to the franchise and is all around much more important than Funky.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Fair enough, though your examples are from the Mario, Zelda and Pokemon franchise.

I'd say they're probably the exception to what I said since they're Nintendo's biggest franchises.

Isn't Donkey Kong the fourth bestselling Nintendo franchise though?

 

[Krysco]

-siiiiiiiiiiiiigh-

Why do people always think franchise representation is only the characters?

Yes, 6 characters may seem to much for a franchise like Fire Emblem, but that's pretty much all the representation it gets aside from music, few trophies (though no one cares about those) and one stage (not counting Coliseum, that one is way too generic and could practically pass for a Kid Icarus stage due to the way it looks)

And with the huge cast of characters FE has and the potential they can have, we're actually just barely scratching the surface with those 6.


Fair enough, though your examples are from the Mario, Zelda and Pokemon franchise.

I'd say they're probably the exception to what I said since they're Nintendo's biggest franchises.

You DID say regardless of franchise but yeah, Mario, Zelda and Pokemon getting 3 isn't as big of a deal as FE since it was rather lowkey until Awakening and even then, it's not on par with the other franchises that've gotten 3 or more in 1 game. Granted, all the loathing towards the FE characters is thanks to pure chance. Lucina happened to get enough time put towards her to go from being an alt ala Alph into a clone snd Corrin was purely due to timing. Not sure if people would still complain as much if the FE cast was Marth, Ike, Robin, Roy and Lucina as a Marth alt.

 

[Zerp]

Because three newcomers for a single franchise in a single game is going to have people complain for absolutely no reason at all regardless of the franchise.

Just look at Fire Emblem.

There were reasons though, the main reason most of us had/have was that Fire Emblem got 3 newcomers but other sizable fanbases/franchises like DK and Kirby got 0 new characters, if the love was a little more evenly spread out and/or they gave those other fanbases some new characters to play with I doubt there'd be anywhere near as much complaining, there'd obviously still be some people complaining because human nature but I'm certain the vast majority of it would have stopped.

Isn't Donkey Kong the fourth bestselling Nintendo franchise though?

It's actually the 5th largest and Zelda's the 4th largest because the Wii series is a thing and is bigger than both of them combined, but yeah, DK's the one right after Zelda.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

All I'm saying is that people would complain because a franchise got three newcomers while another one (probably Zelda) gets nothing.

But personally, I'd say Tropical Freeze gave the Kongs a lot of potential. (though I think Dixie has the highest chances)

 

[Pakky]

Funky I could see in Smash.

Though honestly if anyone should get about 6 characters its DK.

So I guess it'll be like this

-DK

-Diddy

-Dixie

- Cranky

- King K Rool

- Funky

Would love Tiny and Lanky but I think they need more core games. K. Rool absorbing stuff from the modern bosses along with his classic stuff ain't a bad idea idea now that I think about it.

Though I can't see the new bad guy from Tropical Freeze in Smash, there's just no relevance.


Kirby.

I think my video from early sent mixed messages but here's what i meant.

Seeing as how Galacta Knight has been in a few of the games at this point I think he and Bandana Dee would be some cool additions in smash. We don't have a paladin per say (Corrin?) and we don't have a lance user.


Stupid pics that might come true

Mai from KOF- No fan user in the game,

Ivy from Soul Calibur - Cool snake blade

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

If the Switch gets the next Soulcaliber game, then maybe Mitsurugi or Nightmare would have a fighting chance. I’ve always wanted Nightmare in the game.

 

[Pakky]

If the Switch gets the next Soulcaliber game, then maybe Mitsurugi or Nightmare would have a fighting chance. I’ve always wanted Nightmare in the game.

Nightmare makes sense I just don't find him super interesting seeing as we have Cloud and Ike and he seems like more or less the same as those two. However, I could be wrong, but outside of using lighting, I'm not sure what else really sets him apart from the other two heavy sword wielders.

Mitsurugi is a samurai, don't know much about his set because I never pick him, but he should be different.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Nightmare makes sense I just don't find him super interesting seeing as we have Cloud and Ike and he seems like more or less the same as those two. However, I could be wrong, but outside of using lighting, I'm not sure what else really sets him apart from the other two heavy sword wielders.

Mitsurugi is a samurai, don't know much about his set because I never pick him, but he should be different.

Yeah, he is a bit like Cloud and Ike but with the bulk and power of Ganondorf. If they want to make him different, perhaps he can use his evil energy to sap away health from opponents to further fuel his unstoppable strength? Or maybe he could throw his sword and then yank it back. I love that jumping overhead sword slam he goes into the ground in the binges. Or that back swing where he spins and slashes his sword into the opponent. And again, maybe they could incorporate gameplay attributes from the SC like they did with Ryu.

 

[Deleted member]

As far as art style is concerned, am I the only one that is satisfied with the one we got from Smash 3DS & Wii U? It looks lively compared to the dreary look of Brawl which was trying too hard to be "hardcore" in looks. I hope that they keep this for next game.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I hate the rocket trails when people get hit.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

As far as art style is concerned, am I the only one that is satisfied with the one we got from Smash 3DS & Wii U? It looks lively compared to the dreary look of Brawl which was trying too hard to be "hardcore" in looks. I hope that they keep this for next game.

Having a less realistic look seems to be the best move, especially when talking about characters like Donkey Kong and Bowser.

 

[Luminario]

-siiiiiiiiiiiiigh-

Why do people always think franchise representation is only the characters?

Yes, 6 characters may seem to much for a franchise like Fire Emblem, but that's pretty much all the representation it gets aside from music, few trophies (though no one cares about those) and one stage (not counting Coliseum, that one is way too generic and could practically pass for a Kid Icarus stage due to the way it looks)

And with the huge cast of characters FE has and the potential they can have, we're actually just barely scratching the surface with those 6.

I keep seeing people say this, but let's be honest here, characters are the most important representation in Smash. No one would be complaining nearly as much if FE tripled its stage selection. It's also not like FE doesn't have a plentiful supply of inspiration for items and stages too, so they weren't exactly forced to only choose characters to represent the series. The basic point is Sakurai likes FE, so Sakurai gave FE the most important representation in Smash, that's pretty much it.

Onto the DK discussion, I don't think Funky should be chosen over Dixie, especially since she's been more prominent in the series (from my limited insight anyway), has her own game, and has prehensile hair which is pretty cool by itself.

As far as art style is concerned, am I the only one that is satisfied with the one we got from Smash 3DS & Wii U? It looks lively compared to the dreary look of Brawl which was trying too hard to be "hardcore" in looks. I hope that they keep this for next game.

People don't like the Smash 4 artstyle? it's the best one we've had so far.

 

[Deleted member]

Even though the idea of having 4 DK newcomers (namely K. Rool, Dixie, Cranky and Funky) looks excessive, I believe people would be less reluctant for having this much in comparison to the amount FE got in Smash 4.

Let's not forget that the DK series hasn't been the most well represented one in Smash either, with all but 1 of its stages consisting of jungle-themed areas, no Assist Trophy, and DK Island Swing having no less than 8 remixes.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Onto the DK discussion, I don't think Funky should be chosen over Dixie, especially since she's been more prominent in the series (from my limited insight anyway), has her own game, and has prehensile hair which is pretty cool by itself.

Plus, Dixie was considered for Brawl.

 

[IronTed]

Considering we got no newcomers from DKC last time, do you guys expect the same thing again?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Even though the idea of having 4 DK newcomers (namely K. Rool, Dixie, Cranky and Funky) looks excessive, I believe people would be less reluctant for having this much.

Let's not forget that the DK series hasn't been the most well represented one in Smash either, with all but 1 of its stages consisting of jungle-themed areas, no Assist Trophy, and DK Island Swing having no less than 8 remixes.

What was the one stage again?

Considering we got no newcomers from DKC last time, do you people expect the same thing again?

Well, in all fairness, back in the pre-Smash 4 days, the only realistic options were Dixie and K. Rool, and that was only due to retro factor and popularity.

Now, thanks to Tropical Freeze, Cranky is another possibility due to him having his first playable appearances in a mainline DK game, not to mention Dixie got a second wind of relevancy with her first appearance in such a game in almost 20 years at the time.

Then the Switch port does to Funky what the original did to Cranky.

Before Tropical Freeze, DK and Diddy seemed enough. Especially since Returns was the latest DK game during development until just a few months before release.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

As far as art style is concerned, am I the only one that is satisfied with the one we got from Smash 3DS & Wii U? It looks lively compared to the dreary look of Brawl which was trying too hard to be "hardcore" in looks. I hope that they keep this for next game.

On the topic, I for one HATED Brawl's artstyle. I understand what they were going for, making the game dark and gritty, and it can work for characters like , but all it does is end up looking dirty and ugly, and it does NOT mesh well with characters like. I feel the official artwork for Super Mario Odyssey is what Brawl's artstyle should have been.

It's not like Melee was that much better either. I understand that this was on the GameCube and the graphics and textures probably couldn't be polished as much, but everything in that game just looks like plastic, especially on characters like . was his own special case of awful.

Cartoonier graphics like the one Smash 4 has are long-lasting and are definitely the way to go. I don't see them changing the artstyle anytime soon.

 

[Deleted member]

People don't like the artstyle? it's the best one we've had so far.

...Nah, Brawl's artstyle aged pretty badly.

What was the one stage again?

 

[IronTed]

Well, in all fairness, back in the pre-Smash 4 days, the only options were Dixie and K. Rool.

Now, thanks to Tropical Freeze, Cranky is another possibility due to him having his first playable appearances in a mainline DK game, not to mention Dixie got a second wind of relevancy with her first appearance in such a game in almost 20 years at the time.

Then the Switch port does to Funky what the original did to Cranky.

Before Tropical Freeze, DK and Diddy seemed enough. Especially since Returns was the latest DK game during development until just a few months before release.

Fair enough, there certainly is no shortage of candidates, and relevancy is obviously not a big deal. Well, except for K. Rool. unfortunately.

Hopefully this time will be different than 4, any of those 4 would certainly be interesting characters.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Oh right, this one.

I tend to not remember horrible stages

 

[Deleted member]

People don't like the artstyle? it's the best one we've had so far.

Are you referring to Smash 4 or Brawl?

Considering we got no newcomers from DKC last time, do you guys expect the same thing again?

Unless K. Rool returns, I doubt DK will get a third character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, Sakurai initially designed her as a joke character. He said as much in her profile in Melee.
Just that Pichu was designed to be as such in Melee instead.

Wait, he did design Zelda to be a joke character?

I'm aware he wanted to make Jigglypuff one though.

 

[Luminario]

Are you referring to Smash 4 or Brawl?

...Nah, Brawl's artstyle aged pretty badly.

Oh god no I meant the Smash 4 artstyle. Brawl was so washed out compared to it.

 

[Pakky]

, no Assist Trophy

That is actually the worst

- No Rambi

- No Enguarde

- No Expresso

- No Kremlings

- No Zingers

Like... bruh? Is the western hate that bad? I mean this is getting kind of silly. I don't want to say xenophobia is the issue but whew, what other explanation is there?

Also, I for one am a huge Bayonetta fan, but even I was like "How?" How did she get in over EVERYTHING else?

Am I salty? No. Am I confused and believe in some of the conspiracy theories that were floating around years in advance? Yes.

 

[Deleted member]

If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say Dixie is the most likely. She was considered for Brawl, so it's clear that Sakurai acknowledges her as a possible character.

Plus, Dixie was considered for Brawl.

Reminder: She was only considered as a tag-team partner for Diddy and then a low-priority standalone character like Wolf (with her being after Wolf in the data) when that idea was scrapped.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Reminder: She was only considered as a tag-team partner for Diddy and then a low-priority standalone character like Wolf (with her being after Wolf in the data) when that idea was scrapped.

True, but Tropical Freeze gave her a playable appearance and some new tricks, like doing the Hand Slap with her ponytail and her own variant of Diddy's Popgun.

There's potential and times can change. I mean, we're talking about the same game where Sakurai didn't think Villager or the Miis could fit in a fighting game during its development and, well, look at Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, he did design Zelda to be a joke character?

I'm aware he wanted to make Jigglypuff one though.

Oh, I thought you were talking about Jigglypuff. Never mind.

True, but Tropical Freeze gave her a playable appearance and some new tricks, like doing the Hand Slap with her ponytail and her own variant of Diddy's Popgun.

There's potential and times can change. I mean, we're talking about the same game where Sakurai didn't think Villager or the Miis could fit in a fighting game during its development and, well, look at Smash 4.

My point is that being considered before doesn't necessarily help her when you factor in what purpose she was considered FOR.

 

[N3ON]

Donkey Kong should've got more representation after DKCR and TF. I don't think a port, enhanced as it may be, is going to move the needle any further... but that's partly because it's already at a place where it should result in something.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Melee is colorful, except for some stages, which I like.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh, I thought you were talking about Jigglypuff. Never mind.

Ahhh. Thought that might be the case. That said, it's funny how the two times he tries to make her a joke character, she came off as lethal instead.

My point is that being considered before doesn't necessarily help her when you factor in what purpose she was considered FOR.

This. And this is why it shouldn't be that surprising she wasn't in Smash 4. Mind you, she could make a fine semi-clone, taking some moves from Diddy, but yeah.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Donkey Kong should've got more representation after DKCR and TF. I don't think a port, enhanced as it may be, is going to move the needle any further... but that's partly because it's already at a place where it should result in something.

The problem is that TF was released like, 7 months before the 3DS version.

Depending on when development started, it's possible Smash 4's roster was already decided before TF started being worked on.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

Reminder: She was only considered as a tag-team partner for Diddy and then a low-priority standalone character like Wolf (with her being after Wolf in the data) when that idea was scrapped.

Hit the nail right on the head. People forget that she was going to be a standalone character after Sonic and the rest of the low-priority characters. Although I think it's a little strange that she comes after Wolf.

 

[Deleted member]

Ahhh. Thought that might be the case. That said, it's funny how the two times he tries to make her a joke character, she came off as lethal instead.


This. And this is why it shouldn't be that surprising she wasn't in Smash 4. Mind you, she could make a fine semi-clone, taking some moves from Diddy, but yeah.

Although the circumstances are a bit different, it's almost like saying Blastoise being considered for Brawl will help it in the future.
It was considered as part of Pokémon Trainer's gimmick, but was edged out in favor of Squirtle.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Although the circumstances are a bit different, it's almost like saying Blastoise being considered for Brawl will help it in the future.
It was considered as part of Pokémon Trainer's gimmick, but was edged out in favor of Squirtle.

Exactly. Although to be fair, at least Dixie was name-dropped. Was Blastoise legit name-dropped or noted when he talked about Pokemon Trainer? I don't remember the article. I just know he wanted the evolution set as a part of his overall gimmick too.

 

[N3ON]

The problem is that TF was released like, 7 months before the 3DS version.

Depending on when development started, it's possible Smash 4's roster was already decided before TF started being worked on.

Nah. If you consider the timeline, DKCR came out in 2010, and Uprising went gold in January 2012. Presumably the Smash roster was initially drawn up in late winter or early spring 2012. Given that Retro (at the time) was confirmed to only work on one project at a time, they wouldn't have been just sitting around for nearly two years, (especially since the game was originally set to release in 2013), even taking into account how Retro put TF on the backburner to aid MK7 development.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai and Retro didn't have a great deal of contact, as it seems, on the whole, Sakurai has less communication with western devs as he does Japanese ones. So while the game was, probably, around midway development when the Smash 4 roster was decided, it's entirely possible Sakurai was unaware as to the details behind the game, at that time.

That said, DKCR itself should've prompted some sort of effort to include more DK content imo.

 

[Deleted member]

Exactly. Although to be fair, at least Dixie was name-dropped. Was Blastoise legit name-dropped or noted when he talked about Pokemon Trainer? I don't remember the article. I just know he wanted the evolution set as a part of his overall gimmick too.

Blastoise was indeed namedropped.
He directly stated that he went with Squirtle instead because Squirtle would be able to establish itself more as a character and because he decided having one of each stage would be more interesting.

That said, DKCR itself should've prompted some sort of effort to include more DK content imo.

Like what, exactly? Other than Rambi as an Assist or Tikis being enemies in Smash Run, all DKCR really needed was a stage, trophies, and music, which it did get. YMMV on how well that turned out, but still.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Isn't Donkey Kong the fourth bestselling Nintendo franchise though?

Is it? I have no clue but I'd be surprised if it outsold The Wii series or the Animal Crossing series.

Kirby.

I think my video from early sent mixed messages but here's what i meant.

Seeing as how Galacta Knight has been in a few of the games at this point I think he and Bandana Dee would be some cool additions in smash. We don't have a paladin per say (Corrin?) and we don't have a lance user.

I actually think Galacta Knight is a legitimate dark horse contender for the next Smash Bros Game. He has been surprisingly relevant in the Kirby Franchise as of late (In fact I would go so far as to say he's the number five most important character in the series right now behind Bandanna Dee and the Smash bros group) and would probably be an easy addition as a semi-clone of Meta Knight that uses a lance instead (although some people might not want him for this reason). Though MEta Knight already has a Galacta Knight alt which seems to do the character enough justice.