Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

I wouldn't call any of the clones a high priority per say, but I think their stance of staying in Smash 5 relies on completely different factors, most notably time. The only reason were upgraded to clone status was that the devs had some left over development time, and used it to expand the roster (along with some individual reasons, such as Sakurai not wanting Dark Pit to use the Three Sacred Treasures as a Final Smash, and Dr. Mario getting his own slot in Melee). If they have some extra development time in Smash 5 yet they don't have enough time for Robin, those three clones are characters I can easily expect to make the return instead.

The bottom line is that staying in the roster is judged by completely different reasons and factors than staying in.

I get that Lucina is a simple and quick addition, but why would Robin ever fall victim to time restraints in the first place? I can see where people are coming from if they say >+, but I just don't understand what people are thinking when they say >. Robin isn't a clone nor a DLC character. Save for Marth and Ike, shouldn't Robin be the highest priority FE character?

The idea that characters that little time to implement like would get removed over "more important" characters kind of contradicts the idea of removing characters because of TIME constraints.

Removing those characters doesn't give you time to add unique ones. Removing them accomplishes nothing.

At the very least, removing them can give you extra time to work on new clones. Plus, Sakurai tends to cut clones first anyway. If I had to take a guess why, it's probably because he wants to avoid cutting more unique characters and making fans upset.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

The idea that characters that little time to implement like would get removed over "more important" characters kind of contradicts the idea of removing characters because of TIME constraints.

Removing those characters doesn't give you time to add unique ones. Removing them accomplishes nothing.

Forgive me for probably being an idiot, but I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my statement, because I agree with you there. The idea of removing clones to make room for some more unique characters just doesn't make sense; clones take a lot less time to create than a unique character.

Um, just going to bring this up, but bringing back a veteran with just a few balance alterations will probably take less time than decloning a clone. So if they don't have enough time for an already completed moveset from a previous game, how could they have enough time to make a clone character unique?

When have I said they were gonna be more unique? If they return, the only clone I expect to get some differences is , considering he is literally just with a different down tilt, slightly changed neutral special and side special, and a copy-paste of Zelda's Final Smash. And even then, I don't expect any major changes. are completely fine as is.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

why would Robin ever fall victim to time restraints in the first place?

Why would anyone?

There's a point where you have to put your foot down. You can't just say "Well, Fire Emblem Awakening saved the series." "Oh, well Fire Emblem on Switch was the best selling Fire Emblem game of all time"

Sooner or later there's gonna be like 15 Fire Emblem characters.

Robin isn't a clone nor a DLC character.

He doesn't have to be. There are other factors in cutting characters.

Forgive me for probably being an idiot, but I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my statement, because I agree with you there. The idea of removing clones to make room for some more unique characters just doesn't make sense; clones take a lot less time to create than a unique character.

I'm agreeing with you.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I get that Lucina is a simple and quick addition, but why would Robin ever fall victim to time restraints in the first place? I can see where people are coming from if they say >+, but I just don't understand what people are thinking when they say >. Robin isn't a clone nor a DLC character. Save for Marth and Ike, shouldn't Robin be the highest priority FE character?

I think part of that has to do with people, myself included, thinking Fire Emblem is going to have have a rotating cast in Smash, where some characters would get dropped in favor of reps from the newest installments. It's a similar thing that Pokemon has, to an extent at least. I think it's conceivable that Robin or Corrin would be cut in favor of the protagonist of the new Fire Emblem game coming to Switch with this in mind.

 

[Cosmic77]

There's a point where you have to put your foot down. You can't just say "Well, Fire Emblem Awakening saved the series." "Oh, well Fire Emblem on Switch was the best selling Fire Emblem game of all time"

Sooner or later there's gonna be like 15 Fire Emblem characters.

And what would be the factor holding Robin back? Hardware limitations? Being a transformation character? Sakurai working on Roy and Corrin before Robin?

I believe FE is going to get at least one cut to make room for new characters. I just don't think Robin is the guy who's going to get that cut.

I think part of that has to do with people, myself included, thinking Fire Emblem is going to have have a rotating cast in Smash, where some characters would get dropped in favor of reps from the newest installments. It's a similar thing that Pokemon has, to an extent at least. I think it's conceivable that Robin or Corrin would be cut in favor of the protagonist of the new Fire Emblem game coming to Switch with this in mind.

If the number of characters in a series is an issue (and I think they are to an extent), then shouldn't we drop the least unique character () instead of dropping someone with more to offer on the roster ()?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If the number of characters in a series is an issue (and I think they are to an extent), then shouldn't we drop the least unique character () instead of dropping someone with more to offer on the roster ()?

If IS basically forced Koei Tecmo to add Lucina in Warriors, wouldn't they do the same thing with Smash?

 

[Cosmic77]

If IS basically forced Koei Tecmo to add Lucina in Warriors, wouldn't they do the same thing with Smash?

I honestly don't know. Warriors is a FE game that strictly targets its own fanbase. Smash is a collaboration of multiple franchise that targets all sorts of people. IS could force Sakurai to keep Lucina, or they could do absolutely nothing and keep promoting Lucina in their games regardless of what happens in Smash. Whatever the outcome may be, I don't have enough faith in Lucina to say she's more likely than Robin, Corrin, and to a lesser extent, Roy.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If the number of characters in a series is an issue (and I think they are to an extent), then shouldn't we drop the least unique character () instead of dropping someone with more to offer on the roster ()?

That's not how clones work though.

Whenever you are first making a Smash roster, ALL clones should be assumed to be cut by default. If you have enough spare development time after you finish the base roster, then you can start adding the clones.

Say that neither Robin or Corrin were cut from the roster in Smash 5. OK now say that Robin was cut yet Corrin remains. Now say both Robin and Corrin ended up being cut. In all three of these scenarios, Lucina may still get in the roster because she is quite simple to make. However, Lucina may also NOT get in if they don't have the development time to make clones.

Saying that are more likely to stay than is pretty much comparing apples to oranges. Their possible reasons for being cut and/or remaining on the roster are completely different from each other.

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

Is it? Is it really just a myth?

Yes and no.

Every director/leader is going to have some sort of bias involved in their work. It's basic human nature.

But people blow way out of proportion with Sakurai specifically.
Probably because it's easier to blame him for being biased than just accepting something didn't go their way.

 

[Freduardo]

I wish they would declone Dr Mario at least as much as they’ve decloned Roy. I really think Smash gameplay has changed so much that he even could have some kind of puzzle based gameplay and move set.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai hates competitive smash. This may be a speculation thread, but it still looks a bit silly to try to read my mind when all you had to do was ask me why.

People mistake Sakurai's felings. Sakurai does not hate competitive smash, he just wants to direct Smash Brothers to the bigger audience ( the casuals ), because more profit. If Sakurai hated the competitive Smash area, then he would rant about it more often and wished the competitive Smash community would stop. Look, he added For Glory even ( even though some casuals play For Glory, this feels directed toward the competitive audience ) and removed tripping ( Thank Sakurai tripping is gone, I hated it so much ). He just does not want to over-saturate the competitive Smash aspects because the bigger audience would not like it that much. In conclusion: Sakurai just prefers directing games toward the casuals because they are the bigger audience, and that is what Nintendo wants to do to earn more profit.

 

[Opossum]

.
Probably because it's easier to blame him for being biased than just accepting something didn't go their way.

You're being awfully vindictive, man.

Why would anyone?

There's a point where you have to put your foot down. You can't just say "Well, Fire Emblem Awakening saved the series." "Oh, well Fire Emblem on Switch was the best selling Fire Emblem game of all time"

Sooner or later there's gonna be like 15 Fire Emblem characters.


He doesn't have to be. There are other factors in cutting characters.


I'm agreeing with you.

I just think Robin has way too much going for him, personally. One of the two main protagonists of the game that resuscitated a dying franchise, literally the only character on Smash's Fire Emblem roster to use magic despite it being a huge part of the franchise, and the fact that, going by interviews, Sakurai was pretty stoked to add him. I definitely think the roster will be trimmed a bit, but personally the way I see Fire Emblem going is this: Marth, Ike, Robin, New Protagonist = Guaranteed pretty much, Lucina = Likely to return (see IS with Warriors, for example), then Corrin after her (mainly because previous-DLC is kind of an enigma and we don't know how many FE cuts there will be), and then Roy who's pretty much a sure cut (barring a Binding Blade remake happening mid-development, in which case I think they'll just keep the same roster without adding anyone, decloning Roy in the process).


That's just the way I see things though.

 

[Deleted member]

You're being awfully vindictive, man.

Follow your own advice and stop looking for trouble that isn't there, Opo. I'm literally stating a truth, nothing more.

Or did you conveniently forget that Sakurai is blamed for pretty much everything that people don't like in terms of representation either because he's biased for a particular series or biased against a particular series?

 

[Opossum]

Follow your own advice and stop looking for trouble that isn't there, Opo. I'm literally stating a truth, nothing more.

Or did you conveniently forget that Sakurai is blamed for pretty much everything that people don't like in terms of representation either because he's biased for a particular series or biased against a particular series?

I'm just saying you can state a case without accusing people of having ulterior motives spurred by entitlement.

than just accepting something didn't go their way.

Like you're doing right here.

How you state your message is important, is all I'm saying. You can say what you said without throwing out jabs.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

I disagree whole heartedly with that. Wii Fit Trainer is an interesting addition. We need more interesting characters like that.

Super Smash Bros isn't just about what the Smash community wants. The Smash community, myself included, is cancer.

Can you imagine if Smash fans were actually in charge of the roster?

Here's a summary:

• Roster is 1000 characters, so no balance can possibly exist
• 6-year olds added every mob, player, and youtuber in Minecraft
• I added 100 roster slots dedicated to bandana dee
• Scratch the 1000 character thing, the only character is Mario because there will always be one person who wants any given character to be cut
• Actually, there's probably someone who genuinely wants Mario to be cut
• If there was no cuts the roster would actually be 1 million characters (every character in every game ever made)
• I would main Professor E. Gadd, Klefki, Nintendog, Villager (from Minecraft), and The Salesman In The Kirby Right Back At Ya Theme That Sells Monsters To King Dedede.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just saying you can state a case without accusing people of having ulterior motives spurred by entitlement.

Like you're doing right here.

How you state your message is important, is all I'm saying. You can say what you said without throwing out jabs.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill, Opo.

Cosmic was literally asking whether or not the concept of "Sakurai bias" exists.
I'm explaining it does, but not in the sense that people make it out to be, which stems from people being upset over something they deem unfavorable.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I am literally saying what's been going on for at least a decade now.

If that's being "vindictive", then clearly I don't know what that word means since I don't see how anything I'm saying to Cosmic is an act of personal vengeance.

The Salesman In The Kirby Right Back At Ya Theme That Sells Monsters To King Dedede.

.....oh dear LORD he would be terrifying with a 3D model.....
Assuming you know what's underneath what you see on the screen....

 

[Opossum]

You're making a mountain out of a molehill, Opo.

Cosmic was literally asking whether or not the concept of "Sakurai bias" exists.
I'm explaining it does, but not in the sense that people make it out to be, which stems from people being upset over something they deem unfavorable.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I am literally saying what's been going on for at least a decade now.

If that's being "vindictive", then clearly I don't know what that word means since I don't see how anything I'm saying to Cosmic is an act of personal vengeance.

.....oh dear LORD he would be terrifying with a 3D model.....
Assuming you know what's underneath what you see on the screen....

I apologize if I misunderstood your intent. It's just something I see a lot (not from you specifically, but in general) so I was attempting to make sure it didn't get too out of hand. Sorry again if I overstepped.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Here's a summary:

• Roster is 1000 characters, so no balance can possibly exist
• 6-year olds added every mob, player, and youtuber in Minecraft
• I added 100 roster slots dedicated to bandana dee
• Scratch the 1000 character thing, the only character is Mario because there will always be one person who wants any given character to be cut
• Actually, there's probably someone who genuinely wants Mario to be cut
• If there was no cuts the roster would actually be 1 million characters (every character in every game ever made)
• I would main Professor E. Gadd, Klefki, Nintendog, Villager (from Minecraft), and The Salesman In The Kirby Right Back At Ya Theme That Sells Monsters To King Dedede.

And every clone who's not Luigi gets cut.

 

[Deleted member]

I apologize if I misunderstood your intent. It's just something I see a lot (not from you specifically, but in general) so I was attempting to make sure it didn't get too out of hand. Sorry again if I overstepped.

Yeah, I understand.

And I do tend to be blunt with what I say, so I can see where you'd think I was being accusatory.

 

[Opossum]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's so nice to see something be resolved so quickly and peacefully~

Seriously, I just wanted to write a post to say that.

 

[Schnee117]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

English voices for Cloud, Marth and Roy.
Bowser to speak.
DK and Diddy to not use generic sounds.
Shulk's Monado Buster to be renamed Enchant for actual accuracy.
Have Reyn show up instead of Riki in the Chain Attack and for Shulk's last attack there to be Monado Buster.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

PLEASE give DK, Diddy, and Bowser their actual VAs...

it just feel so wrong to hear them make generic animal noises.

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

When I was making my roster I was going to cut most of the clones then I realized one of my favorite characters was a clone (toon link)

(I would post my roster but my phone doesn't have the upload file button)

Who thinks Maxwell from Scribblenauts would be a cool newcomer

 

[Cosmic77]

That's not how clones work though.

Whenever you are first making a Smash roster, ALL clones should be assumed to be cut by default. If you have enough spare development time after you finish the base roster, then you can start adding the clones.

Say that neither Robin or Corrin were cut from the roster in Smash 5. OK now say that Robin was cut yet Corrin remains. Now say both Robin and Corrin ended up being cut. In all three of these scenarios, Lucina may still get in the roster because she is quite simple to make. However, Lucina may also NOT get in if they don't have the development time to make clones.

Saying that are more likely to stay than is pretty much comparing apples to oranges. Their possible reasons for being cut and/or remaining on the roster are completely different from each other.

All right, good point. Perhaps I should've said that Robin shouldn't be cut over Corrin. Lucina is all on her own.

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

This is kind of insignificant, but I don't like the visual differences between Bowser and his son. One uses a more realistic design while the other looks exactly like his typical Super Mario design. At the very least, could they add more detail to Jr's hair and eyebrows so it matches his dad's?

 

[Deleted member]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

Sonic getting a life jacket whenever he enters his swimming animation since he's moving like he has one on.

 

[Deleted member]

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

Changing 's side-taunt line.

That's all I need.

 

[Deleted member]

Changing 's side-taunt line.

That's all I need.

I'm for that too, not because I don't like the nod to "It's Reyn Time", but because the line does not fit the shrugging animation like the line used for the original Japanese version.

 

[Cosmic77]

Changing 's side-taunt line.

That's all I need.

So ya just weren't feeling it, huh?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

This is kind of insignificant, but I don't like the visual differences between Bowser and his son. One uses a more realistic design while the other looks exactly like his typical Super Mario design. At the very least, could they add more detail to Jr's hair and eyebrows so it matches his dad's?

I'd personally like it more if both Bowser and Bowser Jr. had models akin to their actual appearances in the Mario titles. And to be quite frank I'm not sure how I'd feel if Bowser Jr. was touched up to resemble his father.

I'm in the minority of people who really dislike Bowser's design in Smash. Granted, his model in Smash 4 is a major improvement.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'd personally like it more if both Bowser and Bowser Jr. had models akin to their actual appearances in the Mario titles. And to be quite frank I'm not sure how I'd feel if Bowser Jr. was touched up to resemble his father.

I'm in the minority of people who really dislike Bowser's design in Smash. Granted, his model in Smash 4 is a major improvement.

The changes don't have to be major. I really don't care which design they use as long as the pair at least somewhat match each other.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm for that too, not because I don't like the nod to "It's Reyn Time", but because the line does not fit the shrugging animation like the line used for the original Japanese version.

That, and especially because that line is so overused to death it discredited Shulk's original portrayal from Xenoblade 1, to the point that, rather than referring to him as "that dude from Xenoblade", the less experienced people tend to refer to him as "that I'M REALLY FEELING IT guy".

 

[Deleted member]

That, and especially because that line is so overused to death it discredited Shulk's original portrayal from Xenoblade 1, to the point that, rather than referring to him as "that dude from Xenoblade", the less experienced people tend to refer to him as "that I'M REALLY FEELING IT guy".

OH.

I mixed up the taunts. I thought the "Now it's Shulk Time" taunt was the side taunt.
I have no problem whatsoever with I'm Really Memeing It.

Captain Falcon has it worse after all. Does anyone even remember him for anything other than the Falcon Punch these days?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

That, and especially because that line is so overused to death it discredited Shulk's original portrayal from Xenoblade 1, to the point that, rather than referring to him as "that dude from Xenoblade", the less experienced people tend to refer to him as "that I'M REALLY FEELING IT guy".

that line's coming back and you know it

 

[Deleted member]

Found three things to respond to this afternoon...

Question: Sakurai has chosen YOU to help him with the next game's roster and he needs you to pick an new Kirby character for him, however there's an catch, he's banned you from picking Bandana Dee, Dark Matter, Magolor, Galacta Knight and Susie, with that in mind who would you pick?

Spoiler: Hard mode

Gooey, Dark Meta Knight, Adeleine, Taranza, Prince Fluff, Haltmann and Marx are also banned.

Oh, honey, that is an easy one. I would pick Bonkers. With a big, honking hammer the same as , there would be a lot to work with.

Anyway, fun topic switch time.

What changes would you like to see to existing characters on an aesthetic level? Nothing that'd impact gameplay, but things like entrance animations, voice lines, visual flair, and things like that.

• 's voice clips from Mario Kart 64
• The "Oh! I lost!" voice samples from Mario Party 3 when any character from that game (excepting Daisy and Waluigi of course) loses in a match. While I am at it, maybe they can use their victory poses from Mario Party 7 but they are rarer than the other victory poses.
• Hmm...now that I bring up victory poses, one should be able to choose victory poses the same way as Melee. To me, choosing one in Brawl and 4 with the D-pad is a pain in the ass.
• 's entrance animation has him flying in from his Koopa Clown Car
• If 's victory theme loops, why not 's? Her victory theme would be the first several seconds of Theme of Bayonetta - Mysterious Destiny for this or Tomorrow Is Mine for this .
• My girl speaking Japanese the same as regardless of region. I, a 56-year-old woman, cannot begin to tell y'all how many times I played Melee with the Japanese setting. Come to think of it, the speculative Smash needs that optional Japanese setting. This is just me, but the game appears more interesting like this.

People mistake Sakurai's felings. Sakurai does not hate competitive smash, he just wants to direct Smash Brothers to the bigger audience ( the casuals ), because more profit. If Sakurai hated the competitive Smash area, then he would rant about it more often and wished the competitive Smash community would stop. Look, he added For Glory even ( even though some casuals play For Glory, this feels directed toward the competitive audience ) and removed tripping ( Thank Sakurai tripping is gone, I hated it so much ). He just does not want to over-saturate the competitive Smash aspects because the bigger audience would not like it that much. In conclusion: Sakurai just prefers directing games toward the casuals because they are the bigger audience, and that is what Nintendo wants to do to earn more profit.

I praise you for this insightful post. Best thing I have read this afternoon. To me, it is deserving of at least 10 likes...

Sayonara

 

[Deleted member]

If IS basically forced Koei Tecmo to add Lucina in Warriors, wouldn't they do the same thing with Smash?

Devil's Advocate: They forced TK to include Lucina in a game not only centered around the series she's from, but a game where the Awakening theme is prominent.
That doesn't necessarily translate to them forcing Sakurai/whoever to include her in a game that's not just about Fire Emblem if the lineup is getting shifted around.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

OH.

I mixed up the taunts. I thought the "Now it's Shulk Time" taunt was the side taunt.
I have no problem whatsoever with I'm Really Memeing It.

Captain Falcon has it worse after all. Does anyone even remember him for anything other than the Falcon Punch these days?

Considering its major anime appearance... yeah, it's his most memorable thing. Enough that it got into the actual games as a mention in a theme song. Few actually remember him from his home series, and mostly cause of his Smash appearance(although to be fair, he's awesome as a character in Smash. Not nearly as much characterization/meme potential in his home series).

 

[Cosmic77]

If Corrin comes back, something needs to be done about those victory quotes.


"Good."
"Well."
"I win."

- Corrin, 2016

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Devil's Advocate: They forced TK to include Lucina in a game not only centered around the series she's from, but a game where the Awakening theme is prominent.
That doesn't necessarily translate to them forcing Sakurai/whoever to include her in a game that's not just about Fire Emblem if the lineup is getting shifted around.

Okay, that's fair enough.

 

[Lukingordex]

Captain Falcon has it worse after all. Does anyone even remember him for anything other than the Falcon Punch these days?

Show me ya moves!!!