Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

That doesn't make DS trans necessarily. I don't like getting into these types of arguments, but I'm mega dumb so I'll dip in.
Metroid Prime ripped in Samus' DNA and became Dark Samus. We don't know if the Metroids have sexes/genders/whatever, but whatever came out of it she copied.

Did it rip her DNA? Pretty sure it just took over her Phazon suit and modified it.

Also, we don't know how the Metroid reproduce exactly, but they're inspired by the Xenomorphs of Alien, which are parasitic, meaning I think that'd also make them asexual as well.

 

[DittoMaster6]

IIRC Prime didn't really have a motive, it was just giving Tallon IV a hell of a time or something I vaguely remember.

I know it doesn't have any particular motive, I was just trying to determine its biological sex. I had heard that giving birth to Metroids was an attack it used during the battle with it.

 

[KMDP]

No, it's no "viewed" as female, lol. It's LITERALLY genderless. People refer to it as "she" because it's an evil version of Samus who IS female, and humans have a tendency to personify things and associate them with human traits. Dark Samus literally isn't human and reproduces asexually. It's not female. YOU can call it "she" if you'd like, but it's canonically NOT female.

But... we've been arguing that Dark Samus is (not "can be", is) viewed as female, not only by fans but even Retro and Hal Labs... Even if Dark Samus is sexless, it is viewed as female, even by the devs, this is inarguable.

 

[staindgrey]

Does that make Rufus his Big?

Only if Blanka is his Froggy.

 

[Noipoi]

Everytime you beat the Adventure/Spirit Mode you get to choose one Assist Trophy character (possibly reduced to only the ones you can fight back and KO). This is tallied up for DLC.

The winner's spirit is restored and they are broken from their assist trophy imprisonment.

Don't taunt me...

 

[Captain Fun]

I just wanted to mourn our losses...
-snip-

I just want to say I don't view characters being assist trophies as some kind of terrible fate. Shovel Knight, for example, was a small indie game that started off as being crowd funded. Despite being a new IP, it reviewed and sold very well, and Nintendo even published it in Japan, which is probably why this is even possible. Him appearing in the game in any capacity is pretty amazing and Yacht Club should be proud.

Other assists are there because they have fans and Sakurai wants them to be included, if even in a small way.

Waluigi: "Join your father Ashley..."

hhold up

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ok but like

Can we just take a moment to appreciate Lucina’s placement in relation to Captain Falcon

she touched the butt

How would you feel if Smash Directs were a monthly thing?

YES PLEASE. I NEED MORE.

also uhhhh

Wrt no echoes of anyone from Smash 4, only the other games - how about Celica as a Robin echo? Only other thing I can think of is

Spoiler: possible Xenoblade 2 spoiler?

Malos as a Shulk echo, but that would contradict the base roster finalization date. Maybe he’ll be DLC?

So when I get home, should I add Celica and/or Isaac to my dream roster, and possibly make a fourth DLC season of Echoes (Black Shadow, Malos, and two others of you guys’ choice? Feel free to suggest away)

 

[Bowserlick]

So... you're just saying that Waluigi is going to be the DLC

Well, it wouldn't just be the most popular. It would be the most popular character among the gamers that beat the adventure mode over and over.

You think Waluigi would beat Alucard or another Guest AT?

 

[Mc.Rad]

hhold up

Wait Vinesauce's Tomodachi Island streams aren't cannon to the lore of Wario Ware?

 

[SvartWolf]

ption... the mode is known as Spirits,

Dude... what if is really a metroidvania style mode, and you need to rescue teh spirits of other fighters that have been taken by death's schyte?
*fangasming intensifies*

I just wanted to mourn our losses...

Spoiler: You forgot this ones

EDIT: images broken.. but the other ones were Bomberman, Zero and Alucard.

Honestly... Assist Trophies limbo is shaping to be a pretty chill place to be. you could literally made a very hype fighting game with those XD

 

[Will]

Did it rip her DNA? Pretty sure it just took over her Phazon suit and modified it.

Also, we don't know how the Metroid reproduce exactly, but they're inspired by the Xenomorphs of Alien, which are parasitic, meaning I think that'd also make them asexual as well.

I'd say it's genderless, but since it's a copy of Samus I think people are going to call DS a her without hesitation because it makes sense, it's a copy of a girl character. I mean, I've seen SA-X be called a her, because it's another Samus, and Samus is a chick.

This thing is called a chick.

You think Waluigi would beat Alucard or another Guest AT?

yes.
He doesn't even need to try.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm not even halfway done with the editing to the "Leaks" Count, but I'd figure I'd post a progress update.

My spreadsheet is in shambles with empty cells strewn about. 300 "leaks" are in the graveyard and the number is rising. Multiple supposed leaks are on life support.

That being said, a couple are actually more credible now than in the past, so I'll share those with ya'll in a special session/progress update when I'm finished.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Well, it wouldn't just be the most popular. It would be the most popular character among the gamers that beat the adventure mode over and over.

You think Waluigi would beat Alucard or another Guest AT?

You don't know how dedicated they are

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Simon is cool and all, but honestly I think the most compelling thing about the trailer is that it made Skull Kid the most likely remaining full newcomer, as strange as it would be for him to be added.

Fair point. I don't play Kirby games. I've always assumed Dedede was the main baddy and Metaknight was the Vegeta-like rival, but I've honestly never had interest in the series.

He's not even as evil as Vegeta. His first appearance had him as a good guy trying to stop Kirby from doing something stupid after the latter had already torn through several areas on his quest to summon an evil spirit. He's only really a recurring boss because of misunderstandings/impersonations/being controlled by yarn. Dedede is at least consistently more of a jerk (KDL, KSS) even if he's not really evil.

 

[staindgrey]

I think the important question here is:

Will Dark Samus have an SA-X costume?

Because. C'mon. OG Evil Samus.

 

[DittoMaster6]

I think the important question here is:

Will Dark Samus have an SA-X costume?

Because. C'mon. OG Evil Samus.

Given how Dark Samus is rather floaty in her animations, while SA-X isn't, I doubt it.

 

[Iridium]

So, if you could choose some fighters for a Squad Strike, well, who would you choose?

For me, for 3v3s, and or for 5v5s.

 

[Idon]

I think the important question here is:

Will Dark Samus have an SA-X costume?

Because. C'mon. OG Evil Samus.

How would you color it though?
SA-X is pretty much just normal Samus except with dead eyes, which we can't even see to begin with anyways.

 

[Deleted member]

Right, but they were talking in the context of rivals. Shadow is a modern clone of Sonic, but Tails was the OG clone. He did the same thing but looked different and could fly. Tails and Knuckles are friendly companions, as Ken is with Ryu, while Shadow/Akuma are actual antagonists who also happen to basically be evil versions of the game's star.

Yeah, but Ken is literally Ryu's rival. He's the Vegeta to Ryu's Goku. The Shadow to his Sonic. Adding in Akuma would be more akin to adding in Frieza or something, if you catch my drift. Plus, as an Echo, Ken works better as he already has 95% of Ryu's moveset. Akuma has a number of unique specials and normals that really set him apart.

But... we've been arguing that Dark Samus is (not "can be", is) viewed as female, not only by fans but even Retro and Hal Labs... Even if Dark Samus is sexless, it is viewed as female, even by the devs, this is inarguable.

I don't think it's viewed by the devs as female. In fact, they go out of their way to mention that it's just a being of pure Phazon multiple times. They just refer to it as she for convenience sake. You can't tell the devs' intentions just off of that fact. Especially since it was never specifically stated to be female. And again, this was me correcting Swamp on saying "Dark Samus is the first female villain" (I think that's how this all started, isn't it?). It's not technically female, so you can't really say that. Go on and refer to Dark Samus however you like, but it's not really female, so you can't quite say "it's the first female villain." In fact, I wouldn't even go as far as saying Dark Samus even has "villainous intent" it really acts more like a force of nature. Intelligent, but with a singular drive. Not really malevolent persay. Antagonist, sure.

 

[Will]

Simon is cool and all, but honestly I think the most compelling thing about the trailer is that it made Skull Kid the most likely remaining full newcomer, as strange as it would be for him to be added.

You mean the direct, not the trailer.
If you were talking about the trailer then you would've been talking along the lines of King Boo or smth.

But yeah the Moon getting in is super weird, Skull Kid has a better default chance now.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

View attachment 156400
Ok but like

Can we just take a moment to appreciate Lucina’s placement in relation to Captain Falcon

she touched the butt



YES PLEASE. I NEED MORE.

also uhhhh

Wrt no echoes of anyone from Smash 4, only the other games - how about Celica as a Robin echo? Only other thing I can think of is

Spoiler: possible Xenoblade 2 spoiler?

Malos as a Shulk echo, but that would contradict the base roster finalization date. Maybe he’ll be DLC?

So when I get home, should I add Celica and/or Isaac to my dream roster, and possibly make a fourth DLC season of Echoes (Black Shadow, Malos, and two others of you guys’ choice? Feel free to suggest away)

Spoiler: possible Xenoblade 2 spoiler?

The idea is cool but honestly malos is way too tall to work as a shulk echo tbh

 

[Shroob]

Can we all take a moment to stop this goddamn gender argument over a fictional character made of sentient plasma and just appreciate that we haven't seen the last of the new reveals yet?

Vergeben's leak is still alive which promises at the very least 2 more characters, and then there's also the chance of Skull Kid.

Not only that, but with Richter now, characters like Ken or Shadow are now more likely than ever.


And with Chrom, now we know Echoes can have different moves, meaning Dixie could be here too.

 

[Smearglangelo]

I think the important question here is:

Will Dark Samus have an SA-X costume?

Because. C'mon. OG Evil Samus.

Considering that Dark Pit has a Pit alt and SA-X's appearance is basically just how Samus normally looks, I say the chances of it happening are very likely.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet, but Lip’s chances of getting in are pretty non-existent now. If you scroll through Richter’s photos, Lip’s Stick is in one of them.

 

[Blargg888]

Given how Dark Samus is rather floaty in her animations, while SA-X isn't, I doubt it.

Maybe just an SA-X palette swap then?

 

[Iridium]

I think the important question here is:

Will Dark Samus have an SA-X costume?

Because. C'mon. OG Evil Samus.

Well, the only alternate costume we know exists is this:

 

[Mc.Rad]

You mean the direct, not the trailer.
If you were talking about the trailer then you would've been talking along the lines of King Boo or smth.

But yeah the Moon getting in is super weird, Skull Kid has a better default chance now.

Honestly I wouldn't mind him being in, even if the Zelda characters are like... a lot.
preferably not over an f zero character though

 

[Captain Fun]

Wait Vinesauce's Tomodachi Island streams aren't cannon to the lore of Wario Ware?

If that's the case, then Ralph Bluetawn is basically a Wario Ware character via the extended canon.

 

[Deleted member]

So, if you could choose some fighters for a Squad Strike, well, who would you choose?

For me, for 3v3s, and or for 5v5s.

I'd go with
for 3v3
for 5v5

All of this (except for Shulk and probably Ryu) is subject to change when the game comes out if I like how some of the old characters have been tweaked or how some of the new guys play.

 

[Will]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate Lucina’s placement in relation to Captain Falcon

she touched the butt

Why is Lucina so thirsty for the one guy who kicked her and her dad's ass without even trying?

 

[Mc.Rad]

If that's the case, then Ralph Bluetawn is basically a Wario Ware character via the extended canon.

Vinesauce X Wario Ware Crossover

 

[DarkFalcon]

While I was sad my main want was disconfirmed, I can't say I'm anything but ecstatic over that direct. While I don't particularly care for Simon or his Echo, I can't deny how awesome his moveset looks.

Chrom being here as a Eoy/Like hybrid echo is awesome, plus it changes up what echoes can be. I'm a fan of Chrom so I was like omg. I'll touch on Dark Samus later.

K. Rool's reveal was hilarious. I like the character a lot but the Dedede trolling was on point, it's even better because I heard Sakurai does Dedede's voice in Smash. Despite my main wish getting disconfirmed I was laughing and smiling throughout. K. Rool looks super goof. All the references are just fun.

Now Dark Samus. I've gone on record saying how I didn't think she could work as an echo. Well, after seeing her in action I'm sold. While I do think she deserves to be unique, how they animated her really stands out. Her floating and movement is so smooth and effortless just like the games. Plus they changed several of her animations to match up with how she is as a character. I didn't think I'd get Dark Samus, but now that I did I'm soooo happy

 

[ZephyrZ]

Ah screw it, let's just give every FE character an echo.

Ike? Give him a BK echo.
Robin? Give them Celica.
Corrin? I dunno, give Tiki a sword or whatever.

Why stop there? Why not give every character an FE echo?

Pit? Make a Takumi echo.
Ryu? I guess The Vaike forgot his axe at home again or something.
Duck Hunt Dog and Duck? How about Volug and Tibarn?

 

[Deleted member]

I am sure Falcon has G-Fuel Toilet Paper in his home.
Making his butt so clean that Lucina knows it is sanitary to touch.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Why is Lucina so thirsty for the one guy who kicked her and her dad's *** without even trying?

Internet, that’s why.

also are we really having an argument about Dark Samus’s gender lmao

 

[Mc.Rad]

Ike? Give him a BK echo.

Are you sure you want him as an echo?

 

[ChronoBound]

Is Chrom really a mix of Ike and Roy? The only move Chrom seems to pull from Ike is Aether (probably because Chrom has Aether himself, but his version has a different animation, Chrom's Awakening Aether is his Final Smash).

 

[Will]

Well, the only alternate costume we know exists is this:

Man a lot of these have the purple alts shown.
Somone at Nintendo really likes purple. And so do I.

Is Chrom really a mix of Ike and Roy? The only move Chrom seems to pull from Ike is Aether (probably because Chrom has Aether himself, but his version has a different Final Smash, Chrom's Awakening Aether is his Final Smash).

He pulled it from Ike, so he's part Ike. Doesn't matter if he's 50% or 2%, he's still got Ike in him.

 

[staindgrey]

Yeah, but Ken is literally Ryu's rival. He's the Vegeta to Ryu's Goku. The Shadow to his Sonic. Adding in Akuma would be more akin to adding in Frieza or something, if you catch my drift. Plus, as an Echo, Ken works better as he already has 95% of Ryu's moveset. Akuma has a number of unique specials and normals that really set him apart.

I still disagree, probably because we're looking at the word "rival" differently. Shadow and Sonic don't have a healthy rivalry built on comradery. Shadow's just kind of evil, and Sonic has to beat him. Ken and Ryu have never had that sort of relationship. If anything, the compromise here is Sagat, who actually is presented as Ryu's rival in various story modes.

To use a different game as an example, I'd consider Ken and Ryu to be like Fox and Falco, while Sonic and Shadow would be more like Fox and Wolf.

But I'm not arguing echo fighter choice. I'm just arguing allegories. I don't think Street Fighter should have any echos, but that's just me.

 

[Deleted member]

Can we all take a moment to stop this goddamn gender argument over a fictional character made of sentient plasma and just appreciate that we haven't seen the last of the new reveals yet?

Vergeben's leak is still alive which promises at the very least 2 more characters, and then there's also the chance of Skull Kid.

Not only that, but with Richter now, characters like Ken or Shadow are now more likely than ever.

I think Ken and Shadow are pretty much given at this point. Even without any leaks. They make a lot of sense.

I do think 2 more characters seems sensible, I don't buy the Skull Kid leak though. I think it'll be high placing ballot characters. On that note actually, I think I remember Skull Kid placing rather well in those. Anyone got the charts for the polls from Source Gaming? I think I had the Japanese one saved somewhere, lemme see if I can find it...

But yeah, imo, the 2 newcomers will be from there.

Off the top of my head, Isaac, Banjo, Geno, and Rayman all did really well, and still aren't in, in any way.