Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shroob]

I think Ken and Shadow are pretty much given at this point. Even without any leaks. They make a lot of sense.

I do think 2 more characters seems sensible, I don't buy the Skull Kid leak though. I think it'll be high placing ballot characters. On that note actually, I think I remember Skull Kid placing rather well in those. Anyone got the charts for the polls from Source Gaming? I think I had the Japanese one saved somewhere, lemme see if I can find it...

But yeah, imo, the 2 newcomers will be from there.

Off the top of my head, Isaac, Banjo, Geno, and Rayman all did really well, and still aren't in, in any way.

I mean, Verg's leak says who his two characters are, which are Isabelle and a Gen7 'mon(Most likely Incineroar)

 

[RandomAce]

I really like Dark Samus after Sakurai showcased it as an echo, she just looks so cool. So does Chrom, and I’m definitely planning on using both him and Roy.

Now that I think about, Echoes are really supposed to be more expressive variations of other fighters. Take Dark Samus for example. She’s a well received character that some people have wanted, however the team probably didn’t have time to make her completely unique so they instead made her similar to Samus but have more floaty/drastic animations for her attacks and animations to basically reflect that.

Sakurai just went crazy with Chrom. He’s practically a Marth/Ike/Roy/Lucina hybrid. I’m not even kidding, his moveset is that, but surprisingly he probably didn’t take that long.

This game does reflect to it’s “Ultimate” name even more. But for me personally, I just need some proper early 2000’s representation since that era is pretty barren. I’m not even asking for AW, S&P characters anymore, I just want something like a stage and proper music tracks.

Isaac though, hopefully he gets added.

 

[Deleted member]

I still disagree, probably because we're looking at the word "rival" differently. Shadow and Sonic don't have a healthy rivalry built on comradery. Shadow's just kind of evil, and Sonic has to beat him. Ken and Ryu have never had that sort of relationship. If anything, the compromise here is Sagat, who actually is presented as Ryu's rival in various story modes.

To use a different game as an example, I'd consider Ken and Ryu to be like Fox and Falco, while Sonic and Shadow would be more like Fox and Wolf.

But I'm not arguing echo fighter choice. I'm just arguing allegories. I don't think Street Fighter should have any echos, but that's just me.

Well, Ken is referred to as Ryu's rival multiple times throughout the series. Sure, it's a friendly rivalry, but a rivalry nonetheless. And Sonic and Shadow have had to work together multiple times. Hell, he practically IS hedgehog Vegeta.

 

[staindgrey]

How would you color it though?
SA-X is pretty much just normal Samus except with dead eyes, which we can't even see to begin with anyways.

The dead eyes are all I need, really. Give Dark Samus normal Samus colors, but with bright, freakish, dead-ass eyes in the visor.

I freaking love the SA-X and how it legitimately caused dread on a freaking Gameboy Advance.

 

[KMDP]

View attachment 156400
Ok but like

Can we just take a moment to appreciate Lucina’s placement in relation to Captain Falcon

she touched the butt

She ain't touching the butt (well, she is), she's reaching for an evasive Falcon to get revenge for her humiliation from Robin's trailer.

So when I get home, should I add Celica and/or Isaac to my dream roster, and possibly make a fourth DLC season of Echoes (Black Shadow, Malos, and two others of you guys’ choice? Feel free to suggest away)

Yes... Add Celica and Isaac.

Do it.

 

[Will]

Assists are getting pretty advanced, don't you think? The only thing they don't do is be playable. I hope Guile still becomes the SF assist if Sakurai makes one. He got the pass to use Zero, hopefully the same for a SF character.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Are you sure you want him as an echo?

What? You don't?

I knew someone was going to make that joke. I just knew it.

 

[Ivander]

Umm...

Wasn't there a leak that mentioned something about a new mode called "Spirits"?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Can I just say that it’s not just Assist trophies

I also really love how immersive everything is, there’s a lot more cinematic final smashes now and it’s great

 

[Smearglangelo]

There's no way that Skull Kid is going to be playable. If he was playable his Final Smash would be the Moon crashing down and the Moon has already been confirmed as an assist trophy. If he is playable and simply made no reference to the Moon i would be extremely disappointed.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Can I just say that it’s not just Assist trophies

I also really love how immersive everything is, there’s a lot more cinematic final smashes now and it’s great

I just love the general polish on this game... I also think that something is being done to the Character Select because we aren't actually seeing it... unless... you know...

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So, if you could choose some fighters for a Squad Strike, well, who would you choose?

For me, for 3v3s, and or for 5v5s.

for 3 and for five

 

[KMDP]

I still disagree, probably because we're looking at the word "rival" differently. Shadow and Sonic don't have a healthy rivalry built on comradery. Shadow's just kind of evil, and Sonic has to beat him. Ken and Ryu have never had that sort of relationship. If anything, the compromise here is Sagat, who actually is presented as Ryu's rival in various story modes.

To use a different game as an example, I'd consider Ken and Ryu to be like Fox and Falco, while Sonic and Shadow would be more like Fox and Wolf.

But I'm not arguing echo fighter choice. I'm just arguing allegories. I don't think Street Fighter should have any echos, but that's just me.

Shadow hasn't been evil since the endgame of Sonic Adventure 2.

The evil routes of "Shadow the Hedgehog" are non-canon (same with all of them, pretty much, only parts of Shadow the Hedgehog are canon, probably, and the only bits we can be sure of are the opening cutscene and the Final Story) and the evil Shadow in Forces was a copy.

Shadow is an Anti-Hero, he's had a healthy rivalry with Sonic since Heroes.

 

[Blargg888]

So, if you could choose some fighters for a Squad Strike, well, who would you choose?

For me, for 3v3s, and or for 5v5s.

If we get another Capcom character, then we can do:
Snake, Richter, and Simon vs Megaman, Ryu, and (3rd fighter)
We could host our own mini Konami vs Capcom!

 

[Deleted member]

Are you sure you want him as an echo?

Burger King should be a Snake echo due to Snake being from stealth-based games, and Burger King's biggest game role was in Sneak King.

 

[Zeox]

Some games to mention and some newcomers:
Donkey Kong Country = K. Rool
Super Castlevania IV = Simon Belmont
Castlevania: Dracula X = Richter Belmont
Super Metroid = Ridley (has his design from here)

Other interesting games from the snes mini:
Earthbound, Super Mario RPG, Kirby Super Star, F-Zero...

 

[Captain Shwampy]

There's no way that Skull Kid is going to be playable. If he was playable his Final Smash would be the Moon crashing down and the Moon has already been confirmed as an assist trophy. If he is playable and simply made no reference to the Moon i would be extremely disappointed.

Why would they remove a popular character from his assist trophy

 

[Mc.Rad]

There's no way that Skull Kid is going to be playable. If he was playable his Final Smash would be the Moon crashing down and the Moon has already been confirmed as an assist trophy. If he is playable and simply made no reference to the Moon i would be extremely disappointed.

You forgot the true final boss for the game, that would totally be their final smash since the moon is now an assist

 

[ZephyrZ]

There's no way that Skull Kid is going to be playable. If he was playable his Final Smash would be the Moon crashing down and the Moon has already been confirmed as an assist trophy. If he is playable and simply made no reference to the Moon i would be extremely disappointed.

I mean, there's Riki who's both an assist and part of Shulk's Final Smash. Then there's also that Mega Man character - what was his name, Zero?

The only assist trophy that can deconfirm Skull Kid is Skull Kid himself (which admittedly is still a huge possibility).

 

[SquashiniKun]

tbh, i'll be disapointed if Isabelle and Incineroar are the final newcomers. Let's hope that there will be some secret characters.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

She ain't touching the butt (well, she is), she's reaching for an evasive Falcon to get revenge for her humiliation from Robin's trailer.

Yes... Add Celica and Isaac.

Do it.

I gotchu fam

Still need a consensus on my hypothetical DLC season 4 (“Mirror Images”) though. I very much wanna keep Black Shadow (damn I wanna replay F-Zero GX lately) but I’m not sure about Malos or the two other echoes

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, Verg's leak says who his two characters are, which are Isabelle and a Gen7 'mon(Most likely Incineroar)

Yeah, I'm not buying either of those for a second.

Personally, I don't even think we'll get a new Pokemon, that seems like the sort of thing most people would expect based on previous patterns, but not what Sakurai might actually do all things considered. Especially with Gen7 being old news now thanks to Lets Go. Plus, the Pokemon side of the roster already has a lot of characters in it.

You know what I mean? It seems like a safe prediction for a "leaker" but it's playing too safe. This game is going balls to the wall with the fanservice, and less people would be excited for ANOTHER Pokemon, especially without a new game to market, than they would be for a popular 3rd party character from the ballots. If a new Pokemon gets added, it'd be one that's undeniably iconic and popular, not one that's a flavor of the gen starter. Incineroar is like Sceptile, like Blaziken, like Infernape... just the current favorite for the gen, alongside the Owl too... Deucideye I think it was. I don't think either one, or any character from Gen 7 is getting in. We'd sooner see Eevee that either of those two.

 

[Will]

Umm...

Wasn't there a leak that mentioned something about a new mode called "Spirits"?

A dude on twitter E N H A N C E D the picture and with a little bit of work it says "Spirits". However, nobody has replicated what the guy in question has done, though.

 

[staindgrey]

Well, Ken is referred to as Ryu's rival multiple times throughout the series. Sure, it's a friendly rivalry, but a rivalry nonetheless. And Sonic and Shadow have had to work together multiple times. Hell, he practically IS hedgehog Vegeta.

He totally is Hedgehog Vegeta. But again, we just see the term rival differently. Ken is like Krillin in that respect. Goku and Krillin were rivals and training partners, and are now best buddies who still like to fight. But Goku/Ryu outclassed Krillin/Ken awhile ago. So while Ken may consider him a rival and Ryu still loves to fight with him, there's just such a difference in the paths their lives led that Ryu should rightly be compared to other characters by now. While Ryu is off fighting Akuma and Sagat and becoming the best warrior, Ken is marrying Eliza and winning tournaments specifically in America. Sagat is more his equal, and there's an actual bitterness to the rivalry, like Shadow or Vegeta.

I will admit that Akuma is more of a Frieza than Vegeta though; there's nothing healthy about that rivalry.

Man talking allegories is fun.

 

[Smearglangelo]

Mc.Rad ZephyrZ These are very good points. Now I'm hyped for Majora's Wrath!

 

[Demonfunds]

There's no way that Skull Kid is going to be playable. If he was playable his Final Smash would be the Moon crashing down and the Moon has already been confirmed as an assist trophy. If he is playable and simply made no reference to the Moon i would be extremely disappointed.

That is terrible evidence for why he wont be playable.

 

[Deleted member]

There's no way that Skull Kid is going to be playable. If he was playable his Final Smash would be the Moon crashing down and the Moon has already been confirmed as an assist trophy. If he is playable and simply made no reference to the Moon i would be extremely disappointed.

Does Luigi use Misfire in any other game?
Your argument is invalid. He can do more than use the moon for his Final Smash.

 

[Nekoo]

Is it bad if I lowkey maybe expect Sora with my tinfoil hat to be in? Like...Okay- it might be dumb but hear me out-
>Konami get Snake/Simon/Richter
>Capcom get Megaman/Ryu/Ken could join as an Echo
>Sonic get Sonic/Bayonetta/Shadow as an Echo
>Namco get Pac-Man/Heihachi?/Llyod?
>Square? Get Cloud/Geno?/ Sora? (yes yadda yadda disney but also square)

Maybe Square could get 2 characters only with Cloud and Geno, but something tell me that deep inside every company might get three newcomers/Echo.
I hate going all "MUH PATTERN" but somehow, I can see it.
However, the sight of FF having 2 music kinda make me think that Square are a** so who knows.

Just my wish deep inside of my heart, but probably won't happens.

 

[Will]

Yeah I think Skull Kid's default chances have gone up due to the Moon being an Assist rather than a part of an SK Assist movepool.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

You forgot the true final boss for the game, that would totally be their final smash since the moon is now an assist

yea

I was thinking about skull kid fighting style being inspired by Majora's incarnate

https://youtu.be/Q4PyBnqNxK4?t=192

 

[N3ON]

Why would they remove a popular character from his assist trophy

why indeed

 

[Deleted member]

He totally is Hedgehog Vegeta. But again, we just see the term rival differently. Ken is like Krillin in that respect. Goku and Krillin were rivals and training partners, and are now best buddies who still like to fight. But Goku/Ryu outclassed Krillin/Ken awhile ago. So while Ken may consider him a rival and Ryu still loves to fight with him, there's just such a difference in the paths their lives led that Ryu should rightly be compared to other characters by now. While Ryu is off fighting Akuma and Sagat and becoming the best warrior, Ken is marrying Eliza and winning tournaments specifically in America. Sagat is more his equal, and there's an actual bitterness to the rivalry, like Shadow or Vegeta.

I will admit that Akuma is more of a Frieza than Vegeta though; there's nothing healthy about that rivalry.

Man talking allegories is fun.

Has Ryu outclassed Ken? I think they're both still pretty evenly matched. Especially since Violent Ken is a parallel to Evil Ryu.

 

[Smearglangelo]

Does Luigi use Misfire in any other game?
Your argument is invalid. He can do more than use the moon for his Final Smash.

Luigi uses Green Missile in the Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games series actually.

 

[Deleted member]

Luigi uses Green Missile in the Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games series actually.

Smash did that first.
Luigi used that Misfire during Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

why indeed

Given a choice between Banjo or Isaac, who would you take?

I know you're not the best at these sort of choices, but if you could only have one...?

 

[BeardyBennett]

I like Wolf and all, but he seems a little out of place here. If anything, Fox's equivalent is Andross. Wolf is more his Vegeta than his Frieza.

Also, as a general comment to people debating Dark Samus's gender, she's originally the Metroid Prime, which was the Metroid queen. Assuming Metroid gender isn't abnormal, yeah, she's a lady.

Catching up on pages, but Wolf is pretty villainous. He's actively trying to stop the heroes rather than also trying to achieve the hero's goal (like Vegeta). He also worked for Andross and aided in his genocidal campaign on the Lylat System. If anything he's like the...idk Captain Ginyu or Zarbon? Or like the pre-also-trying-to-stop-Frieza Vegeta?

 

[Iridium]

There's no way that Skull Kid is going to be playable. If he was playable his Final Smash would be the Moon crashing down and the Moon has already been confirmed as an assist trophy. If he is playable and simply made no reference to the Moon i would be extremely disappointed.

But what about Riki as an Assist Trophy and participant in Shulk's Chain Attack?

 

[Smearglangelo]

Smash did that first.
Luigi used that Misfire during Melee.

I know that, I'm a Melee kid. The Mario & Sonic thing is just a fun fact that not many people know.

 

[Will]

Something I'm actually surprised about: an actual Fire Emblem item. I didn't expect the Killing Edge of all things.

Here's hoping for the Devil Axe next. I love me some sacrificial shenanigans.

But what about Riki as an Assist Trophy and participant in Shulk's Chain Attack?

Damn you just blasted him out of the water and out of the Earth and out of the universe.

 

[Pyra]

There's no way that Skull Kid is going to be playable. If he was playable his Final Smash would be the Moon crashing down and the Moon has already been confirmed as an assist trophy. If he is playable and simply made no reference to the Moon i would be extremely disappointed.

Your disappointment isn't really a reason for it not to happen.
And it's not like the moon is the only thing Skull Kid is known for. Considering... the mask and all. And what it is. And the fact that a playable skull kid is less about playing the skull kid and more about playing as Majora.