Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[blackghost]

competitively speaking chrome will MUCH more than a chance. if he's roy without the dumb mechanic his future is probably pretty bright. chrome inclusion is something im not going to bash but a blue-haired falchion user with marth's moves is not something i really wanted to see. regardless he's here and he will be picked both online and in tournament play.

with the belmonts, whichever one is faster will probably be preferred.
cant really say how good belmont will be until i see its application. kinda like menat was in sfv when she first showed up.

I'm having some optimism on stage morphing being used. its honestly too interesting to just ignore.
'fs from bars will not be competitive normal play.if they were just like dk,link, mario, or deedee it would be okbut some are just too much: bayonetta, samus, inkling, pit. dont think these moves will see consideration. but in casual play you bet i'll have them on.

the other interesting thought i had was im sure sakurai has wanted to do ditto for YEARS but hardware limitations stopped it. also rip to the fallen assist trophies

 

[N3ON]

Maybe they thought the background part of Jungle Hijinx would be a bit of a strain in handheld mode.

Unfortunate. I liked that stage.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, if we're discussing 'villains'

While Pokemon aren't necessarily evil by nature, Incineroar is a pretty good candidate for what one would consider a villain.


He's both a Dark type(Evil in Japan), and he's based off of a heel wrestler, someone who does **** like throw dirt in the eyes of his opponent to stagger them.

Let's just make N a playable character. I'm sure that would work great.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Watch the trailer again. He specifically states they're weaker versions of the moves. Meaning it's likely any instakill ones are gone. They've also all been rebalanced as well. It's clear Sakurai revamped FSs with this in mind. And we do know how the meter fills. Watch the trailer. It fills only when you get hit. How quickly, not so sure, but it doesn't seem too different from super in other fighting games.

Also, all FSs don't have to be identical in power for them to be balanced, it's clear some will be stronger than others, and some easier to dodge, and others hard to judge. But it can make certain possible lower tier characters more viable if their FS is particularly strong, and vice versa. I don't see the point of tossing the baby out with the bathwater, and just completely deciding not to give them a chance before we have the game in our hands. It's more than evident that Sakurai wants people to play with these more, and he even went out of his way to make them more competitively viable. Rebalancing all of them, and removing the RNG factor.

I will be super pissed the community decides they don't wanna play with FS if they are fair and viable, just cause they're so used to playing the game without them. This is the way I and many people have been wanting FS since forever, and at their current state, they don't seem any more crazy than Mac's KO Punch, or Cloud's Limit Breaks. If those two are in the game, there's not much of a reason to get pissy over Final Smashes. The reason previously was the RNG factor. That's gone now. And other fighting games do Super Moves just fine, some even having instakills.

Except in that same mode we saw Marth Final Smash kill Lucas at like 40?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Okay so after the time has set in and everything's sizzled.

Does Chrom look off to anyone? To me, the guy looks like he just got woken up in the middle of the night and got told "dude you gotta go to smash now". I really want to see him get polished, because a lot of things set me off that I can't describe properly. He just doesn't look completely finished.

Glad i wasn't the only one who thought this. Then again. There is an easy answer.

The games just not finished yet. they'll fix all this stuff later.

 

[Blargg888]

Man, I really hope my theory of the Morgans appearing in the Robins Final Smash is real.

Now that Chrom is finally his own man, that leaves Robin's FS spot open for rent.

 

[Noipoi]

I mean, if we're discussing 'villains'

While Pokemon aren't necessarily evil by nature, Incineroar is a pretty good candidate for what one would consider a villain.


He's both a Dark type(Evil in Japan), and he's based off of a heel wrestler, someone who does **** like throw dirt in the eyes of his opponent to stagger them.

I want Incineroar because of the move set potential. We have villains in Smash, but do we have dirty fighters in Smash?
Spitting in someone's eyes, below the belt shots, general mean-spirited behavior. a character desperate to win by any low, dirty, evil means possible.
That sounds awesome to me.

 

[DarkShadow20]

Maybe they thought the background part of Jungle Hijinx would be a bit of a strain in handheld mode.

Unfortunate. I liked that stage.

Maybe it's because of the morphing mode? Maybe had problems if people were in the background while the stage morphed into another stage.

 

[Will]

competitively speaking chrome will MUCH more than a chance. if he's roy without the dumb mechanic his future is probably pretty bright.
with the belmonts, whichever one is faster will probably be preferred.

cant really say how good belmont will be until i see its application. kinda like menat was in sfv when she first showed up.

From what footage I've seen, it looks like Richter is faster/dps and Simon is slower/stronger. I think it depends on the matchup, I feel like Simon would edge out just because of the sheer range of Vampire Killer. I was never really much of a Simon supporter, but I agree he would make for an interesting character based on the whip alone. The whip having full control range ala SCIV can really damage campers. I have really high expectations for the duo since they have a lot going for them.

Chrom has a lot going for him actually, his aether is way faster than Ike's which I think is great for recovery. We'll have to wait and see how he turns out.

 

[SquashiniKun]

I can't for ProZD to make a follow-up to this now that Chrom is ACTUALLY playable.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I think part of the problem is that it sounds like you hate too strongly and too often.

I mean, sure, dislike things, but hate shouldn't be used for things like video games. Just shrug the annoying stuff off and enjoy all the good stuff!

Not the first time I've been told that. I've always had a 'hateful' outlook, even in my childhood.

It's something I've been doing my best to work on, but it isn't easy. One thing is all it takes for me to snap.

 

[Smearglangelo]

competitively speaking chrome will MUCH more than a chance. if he's roy without the dumb mechanic his future is probably pretty bright.
with the belmonts, whichever one is faster will probably be preferred.

cant really say how good belmont will be until i see its application. kinda like menat was in sfv when she first showed up.

I never even thought of this, If Chrom is Roy without the sweet spot(Much like how Lucina is compared to Marth), he may turn out to be my favorite fighter in this game!

 

[PeridotGX]

Boss shadow in Castlevania stage with cartoon boots. What is this? Not from series?

Spoiler: Shadow of Secret Boss

View attachment 156368

I think it's a reference to Dark Matter from Kirby

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that this will be all of the stages. There's six empty slots near the bottom of the SSS.

 

[Noipoi]

I think it's a reference to Dark Matter from Kirby

I'm quite sure it's kid Dracula. The silhouettes look exactly the same.

 

[ZephyrZ]

With all this villain talk there's a bit of hope within me for The Black Knight becoming playable as an Ike echo. Maybe he could even have his secret identity as an alt costume. Castle Siege isn't a problem either as he could always leave standing there menacingly to Alfonzo. And just imagine all the salt he'd receive for being our third Fire Emblem echo!

But alas, I'm probably just dreaming.

 

[Will]

So now that Simon's in, what big bad boy retro person is next?
I feel like this is obligatory now.

I think it's a reference to Dark Matter from Kirby

>completely different series being put on a completely different stage
boi you trippin tinfoil
It's Kid Dracula, it has the same pose and you can make out his little kid fist in the shadow. It's literally ripped from the one promo image I don't have atm.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Doesn't Final Fantasy only have 1 character and stage?

To be fair they are third parties. I feel like they'd be an exception to that rule.

Imagine hiding Megaman away in the other section.

 

[Dandelionel]

So now that Simon's in, what big bad boy retro person is next?
I feel like this is obligatory now.

>completely different series being put on a completely different stage
boi you trippin tinfoil
It's Kid Dracula, it has the same pose and you can make out his little kid fist in the shadow. It's literally ripped from the one promo image I don't have atm.

Tbh if Ryu got in before Kasumi from DOA I would be slightly annoyed (for petty reasons tho)

 

[Shroob]

So now that Simon's in, what big bad boy retro person is next?
I feel like this is obligatory now.

>completely different series being put on a completely different stage
boi you trippin tinfoil
It's Kid Dracula, it has the same pose and you can make out his little kid fist in the shadow. It's literally ripped from the one promo image I don't have atm.

Well I imagine Ken almost feels like a guarantee if Richter gets in.

But yeah Ryu Hyabusa is pretty much the only 3rd party NES character I can think of left.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Maybe they thought the background part of Jungle Hijinx would be a bit of a strain in handheld mode.

Unfortunate. I liked that stage.

The Great Cave Offensive says hello

Maybe some of them are still just in the polishing/not ready to 100% commit to them being in stage?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You see what WE NOT GOING TO DO is just sit here and act like Sakurai isn't THE MOST MASSIVE troll game developer ever with that K. Rool trailer with Dedede LMAO at DK fans like " U THOUGHT". I luv these nice touches.

The best part about it is, Sakurai voices Dedede. So not only is he modest enough to let DDD job, he essentially let K. Rool rough him up.

Also, it's funny that two of the character debuts that had me the most excited happen to be kings, and both of them put into the same trailer, no less!

I want Incineroar because of the move set potential. We have villains in Smash, but do we have dirty fighters in Smash?
Spitting in someone's eyes, below the belt shots, general mean-spirited behavior. a character desperate to win by any low, dirty, evil means possible.
That sounds awesome to me.

After The Amazon, no one else would truly fit that aide from Incineroar himself.

I'm quite sure it's kid Dracula. The silhouettes look exactly the same.

Assuming we don't get a "Daroach seen from above!" case.

Tbh if Ryu got in before Kasumi from DOA I would be slightly annoyed (for petty reasons tho)

I'd be fine with Ryu and Ayane debuting at the same time, tbh. Ayane can stealthily represent both series this way.

Well I imagine Ken almost feels like a guarantee if Richter gets in.

But yeah Ryu Hyabusa is pretty much the only 3rd party NES character I can think of left.

Except for Bomberman, but well, you know. RIP, Master Higgins.

 

[T-Hell]

I made a reaction video for the direct if anyone cares to check it out!

Watched it, minus the post-Direct chat. Enjoyed it because I like when people actually pay attention and feel passionate.

 

[Blargg888]

I never even thought of this, If Chrom is Roy without the sweet spot(Much like how Lucina is compared to Marth), he may turn out to be my favorite fighter in this game!

Thing is, Chrom seems to be more than just Roy with Ike's recovery. He also seems to have Marth's F-Smash as his F-tilt, as well as some variation of Ike's Up-Smash. Chrom feels like somewhat of an amalgamation character, but he's considered a Roy Echo because he takes the most from Roy.

 

[Smearglangelo]

ColietheGoalie You've gotta update your signature after that direct.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I don't really understand how Orbital Gate Assault could have been axed. Didn't they spend a year working on it?

Is it possible that the stage might have been axed because they couldn't get it to work in 8-player mode? It is a pretty busy stage....maybe that combined with eight Ice Climbers tipped it into the realm of unplayable.

 

[staindgrey]

Someone on Kotaku is trying to argue with me that Marth and Ike play basically the exact same.

I can't. I don't even. What.

 

[papagenos]

Watched it, minus the post-Direct chat. Enjoyed it because I like when people actually pay attention and feel passionate.

Thanks! We all love smash a lot so we were all on the edge of our seats the whole time

 

[MSmariosonic]

Rumble falls tho

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Edited:
I deleted this prediction list because I just want to be excited for what comes next and not worry about being right or wrong.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Credit to Reddit user..... Redditisjustawful.


Man, we really aren't missing that many stages, and outside of the meme ones, I really don't miss any of these to be frank.

I'm going to sorely miss Sector Z, Orbital Gate Assault, and Poke Floats.

The only stages I don't care much for are the Flat Zone stages since we have Flat Zone X, Pictochat since we have Pictochat 2, and Miiverse.

It would've been nice to see the rest return, though.

 

[Nekoo]

Kotaku

That's the problem here boy.

 

[Enderwoman]

Credit to Reddit user..... Redditisjustawful.


Man, we really aren't missing that many stages, and outside of the meme ones, I really don't miss any of these to be frank.

the flat zones are combined to make X, why are they here?

 

[ColietheGoalie]

ColietheGoalie You've gotta update your signature after that direct.

Indeed I do

 

[Will]

Well I imagine Ken almost feels like a guarantee if Richter gets in.

But yeah Ryu Hyabusa is pretty much the only 3rd party NES character I can think of left.

There's always Hayabusa's "rival", Strider from Capcom. Mech-ninja isn't really playable yet, and Raiden from Metal Gear hasn't shown face.

Also you'd have two Ryus in the same vain that there were two Roys, but at least one Roy was DLC planned after the fact.

 

[Pyra]

I wonder if they're gonna update the demo for the next event...

"BUT THEY HAVE NO REASON TO"
But they have no reason not to if they really wanna. The demo IS versioned, you can see it on the demo title screen. So, it's not shocking if they do. It hurts nobody.

 

[blackghost]

I don't really understand how Orbital Gate Assault could have been axed. Didn't they spend a year working on it?

Is it possible that the stage might have been axed because they couldn't get it to work in 8-player mode? It is a pretty busy stage....maybe that combined with eight Ice Climbers tipped it into the realm of unplayable.

it either doesnt work with morph or 8 player. i'd lean towards eight player. no other stage has as much activity on it as OGA

 

[SquashiniKun]

So... anybody wanna predict when the next Smash info dump is coming? I'm personally hoping they announce a character at Gamescom or something.

 

[T-Hell]

Thanks! We all love smash a lot so we were all on the edge of our seats the whole time

Just try to make sure you record yourself every Direct from now on just in case they reveal Geno, because I wanna see that lmao.

 

[Deleted member]

Marth's FS kills earlier than KO punch, and is a full screen move built to catch landings. KO punch is a move tied to a meter that can be taken away or out camped, not to mention his entire charater is balanced around that gimmick. It is a bad idea to give everyone win buttons because then the game becomes a camp fest to abuse your win button.

Either you don't play the game competitively, or you don't see how over centralizing these moves would be at high level. If final smashes get turned on, you might as well flip items back on too.

Or maybe I'm telling you you're jumping to conclusions while the game is still in development. If there are legit issues with FSs once the game is out, then fair game. But right now, being so negative about the idea of trying that out is flat out narrowminded.