Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

I wonder if Melee will ever stagnate, or at least stagnate to a major degree. I still wanna know what discoveries could be made for the game. And what could suddenly happen to make another character jump to stardom from some crazy shenanigans.

It's been 17 years but I guess there might still be bugs around, waiting to be found and carry its finder to new heights.

that or there'll left no hardware to support Melee

 

[Shroob]

It's been 17 years but I guess there might still be bugs around, waiting to be found and carry its finder to new heights.

that or there'll left no hardware to support Melee

Isn't Melee's biggest problem the lifespan of CRTs?

 

[KMDP]

It's been 17 years but I guess there might still be bugs around, waiting to be found and carry its finder to new heights.

that or there'll left no hardware to support Melee

When there's no more hardware to be had to support Melee (I assume you mean TVs, Gamecubes and Wiis), people will start making hardware.

 

[Will]

That "jump to stardom" could only happen with a healthy meta that lasted for over a decade, which won't happen with Smash 4...

Well, I mean a BIG discovery, something that could lead uhhhhhh picking a random character here to becoming a top tier lad swatting shines like its nobody's business. Though, I suppose such a hope for such a big change is only a dream.

Something that fascinates me is that Melee 2 mod, it looks pretty neat for a Brawl hack.

Isn't Melee's biggest problem the lifespan of CRTs?

If you can get the parts I'm pretty sure you can life prosperously with Melee until you die or something.

 

[osby]

That "jump to stardom" could only happen with a healthy meta that lasted for over a decade, which won't happen with Smash 4...

Which sane players stucks to a game over a decade when it has sequels?
Wait...

 

[NeonBurrito]

I wonder if Melee will ever stagnate, or at least stagnate to a major degree.

It most certainly will, and I say this as someone who greatly prefers Melee over Smash 4. Nothing lasts forever, and with every day that passes, it gets harder and harder to get into from more of a casual standpoint.

Unless, the 'Melee Timeline' is true, of course. Then we'll be seeing Melee at EVO 2400, at the very least.

 

[Zinith]

When there's no more hardware to be had to support Melee (I assume you mean Gamecubes and Wiis), people will start making hardware.

Like Shroob said above, CRTs will start to go. Both modern TVs and emulation will cause input delays...

 

[Koopaul]

Here lies Smash 4.
Died with a whimper, not a bang.
Oct/Nov 2014- Aug 2018
Rip in peace.

Why? Many people have fond memories of Smash 4. It brought Pac-Man, Cloud, Mega Man and more in one game. It will always be remembered.

Oh... Do you mean like for tourney stuff?

 

[Noipoi]

Melee's meta is such an odd mix of brilliant game design and abusable glitches. I'd like to say there's nothing more to be found but i'd probably be proven wrong.

 

[KMDP]

Like Shroob said above, CRTs will start to go. Both modern TVs and emulation will cause input delays...

I edited my post to include TVs as well, because even then people will try to make them. XD

 

[Pakky]

I'm not sure who is the irresposible

Aegislash can basically 1v6 an entire team with its stall set, even in Ubers, and because Kings Shield is just fancy protect, even though there's not a high chance that spamming it will work, on the cases where it actually does work, you get punished due to bad rng more than bad predicting.

Aegislash is disgusting and deserves the Uber treatment.


Landorus strong and scary, but one Ice Beam usually drops it, maybe 2, and a Burn kills it outright.

Then again there's Defiant and Sucker Punch. And Like the sword, Lando can be either special or physical.

Its all a big mess really, I mean Smogon tries but some of their methods are inconsistent and archaic.


The whole meta is stall based because they've offed all the attackers expect a handful.

Now am I saying let Mewtwo into OU?

No, but are both forms of Blazekin that tough that they can bust every single bulky water in the game?

Nah.

 

[osby]

Well, if Fox isn't high tier in Ultimate, we know it will lengthen the Melee's lifespan, like two decades.

 

[Noipoi]

Why? Many people have fond memories of Smash 4. It brought Pac-Man, Cloud, Mega Man and more in one game. It will always be remembered.

Oh... Do you mean like for tourney stuff?

I'm talking tourney stuff, my dude.
The game was fine, my first Smash actually! I coulda got Brawl but child me was an idiot who didn't wanna see Mario hurt Pikachu.
I'll always remember Smash Wii U fondly, it just sucks it's competitive life had to end with such a lame tournament.

 

[Will]

Melee's meta is such an odd mix of brilliant game design and abusable glitches. I'd like to say there's nothing more to be found but i'd probably be proven wrong.

I'm sure there's plenty to be found, but not within the game or glitches itself, but characters.
For all we know is hiding some magical tech that nobody's discovered because people rarely play him.

 

[Mutsukki]

Melee's meta is such an odd mix of brilliant game design and abusable glitches. I'd like to say there's nothing more to be found but i'd probably be proven wrong.

Probably wrong yeah, I mean from last year to this one the meta changed already like, twice. It's crazy, but Melee is not gonna die so soon and that's a merit to the game and it's players.

And it feels like I'm hating on Smash 4, but I adore the game and it'd be my choice over Melee to get good at, but people started losing interest in the game and that's expected, it's not gonna go anywhere from here just like Brawl stagnated

I'm sure there's plenty to be found, but not within the game or glitches itself, but characters.
For all we know is hiding some magical tech that nobody's discovered because people rarely play him.

If somebody discovered how to stop G&W's landing lag he'd be a pretty big contender for top tier

 

[Zinith]

My boi's best player in Melee jumped from 24th in the rankings to 8th in the span of a year. I only see good things for Melee Yoshi going forward (even if I hate his design)

 

[Noipoi]

Probably, I mean from last year to this one the meta changed already like, twice. It's crazy, but Melee is not gonna die so soon and that's a merit to the game and it's players.

And it feels like I'm hating on Smash 4, but I adore the game and it'd be my choice over Melee to get good at, but people started losing interest in the game and that's expected, it's not gonna go anymore from here just like Brawl stagnated


If somebody discovered how to stop G&W's landing lag he'd be a pretty big contender for top tier

It is amazing how people start to lose interest Brawl and 4 as time goes on, but Melee remains relevant 17 years later.
Who new a Gamecube launch title would have such staying power.

 

[Shroob]

Melee's problem is it's on a clock.

How long will it be until CRTs basically go extinct?

Technology, no matter how good you take care of it, doesn't last forever.


I also can't imagine anyone taking it upon themselves to make their own CRTs either. GC controllers are one thing, but an entire television?

 

[osby]

I'm talking tourney stuff, my dude.
The game was fine, my first Smash actually! I coulda got Brawl but child me was an idiot who didn't wanna see Mario hurt Pikachu.
I'll always remember Smash Wii U fondly, it just sucks it's competitive life had to end with such a lame tournament.

Brawl was stuff of my childhood dreams and its casual fans are really nice.
I definitely don't envy competitive players, especially after this match, as funny as it was.

 

[Will]

I also can't imagine anyone taking it upon themselves to make their own CRTs either. GC controllers are one thing, but an entire television?

Some company out there is probably ambitious enough to try and sell into the nostalgia market for ****in CRTs.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Just gonna plop this here...

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[Noipoi]

Brawl was stuff of my childhood dreams and its casual fans are really nice.
I definitely don't envy competitive players, especially after this match, as funny as it was.

I'm actually not competitive at all, I just like to keep an eye on who's top tier or whatever.
Iv'e never played Brawl, actually. If I get some extra time, money, and ambition to dig my Wii U out of the basement I might give it a try.

 

[BlueMagician]

There are certainly other fighting games that are still played competitively years after their release like Street Fighter 2 and such, Melee is just one of them.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

After watching that grand finals, I want to say one thing:

if Bayonetta (or any other character) in Ultimate causes this much toxicity again, can we please have an honest discussion about a ban? What I saw today was really upsetting. I'm not talking about the stalling or the friendly nature of grand finals. I'm talking about a character who is miles better than everyone else. I'm talking about a character who fundamentally goes against the nature of Smash Bros. I'm talking about a character who has actively caused several members to leave the community.

Hell, the common feeling right now is "Thank God this game is about to die, December 7th can't come soon enough!"
That is NOT how players should view their own game.

Despite how much hate the character received and how vocal the community was, the idea of a ban was never really entertained (outside of smaller locals for instance). It's impossible to say, but I'd wager that had she been banned, there would be a more positive reception to the tournament we just witnessed. Obviously inducing a ban is not something we should want, but in cases like this, it might have been the best option.

Now please don't take this as me saying "ban bayonetta in ultimate before it releases!" because that's certainly not what I'm trying to say. But IF we see a repeat, can we please take action instead of hiding behind a myriad of entitled defenses?

 

[Mutsukki]

It is amazing how people start to lose interest Brawl and 4 as time goes on, but Melee remains relevant 17 years later.
Who new a Gamecube launch title would have such staying power.

For real, I was a kid when Melee released and got it one year later. I adored it, but never got into it competitively as there isn't a scene here (and I only came to know about advanced techs like years and years later). But when Brawl was announced, I couldn't care for it anymore at all and shunned the competitive scene for a loong time, but these past few years have made me really enjoy Melee a lot. It's so crazy, but it's so good to watch.

Just gonna plop this here...

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I love Alpharad, but I do think he's a tiny bit biased. Booing is not good... because it's not supposed to be good. I don't like it either, but I can't really fault people for doing that, and the Grand Finals players just added more justified fuel to the fire.

But I do agree, the whole Smash 4 community lost really bad today, such a shame.

Hell, the common feeling right now is "Thank God this game is about to die, December 7th can't come soon enough!"
That is NOT how players should view their own game.

This is pretty par for the course actually, Street Fighter IV suffered the same thing when V was about to be released and even with all the complaints, people still play SFV (Capcom endorsement does help, but people don't really go back to IV even casually)

 

[KMDP]

Melee's problem is it's on a clock.

How long will it be until CRTs basically go extinct?

Technology, no matter how good you take care of it, doesn't last forever.

I also can't imagine anyone taking it upon themselves to make their own CRTs either. GC controllers are one thing, but an entire television?

The thing about technology is that it can be replicated. Yes, even televisions.

CRTs are not like some kind of lost art, if there becomes a market for them, they will get made, even if it's by amateurs.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Reading about what happened to Smash 4 Grand Final at EVO just make me sad.

Whatever you think Smash 4 was a good or boring game, with a somewhat balanced roster or characters that just broke the game, it deserved atleast a final bang before going out of the map for good.

As someone who followed Smash 4 since the very beginning and isn't even a competitive player, this is just...the worst ending it could have got.

****, I hope Ultimate won't have it as bad...

 

[Shroob]

The thing about technology is that it can be replicated. Yes, even televisions.

CRTs are not like some kind of lost art, if there becomes a market for them, they will get made, even if it's by amateurs.

A damn shame that VALVe forgot how to make video games then.

 

[Will]

Now please don't take this as me saying "ban bayonetta in ultimate before it releases!" because that's certainly not what I'm trying to say.

Maybe for you.
I'm banning that thot the moment I unlock her however I unlock her.

 

[Noipoi]

A damn shame that VALVe forgot how to make video games then.

Everyone's talking about Half-Life 3, and i'm over here wanting Portal 3.
Why cant VALVe count to 3?

 

[KMDP]

Everyone's talking about Half-Life 3, and i'm over here wanting Portal 3.
Why cant VALVe count to 3?

Counting to three is hard. Counting to two is only 66.6'% the effort.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Just a musing I had, it can be argued patch 1.1.6 was a detriment to Smash 4's competitive scene, if that patch didn't happen Bayo probably would have pushed into blatant ban territory within like a year and actually probably would have banned a long time ago. Or we could have just had another Brawl MK situation on our hands where the community pussyfoots around it and we're left with an even more blatantly OP character dominating the game. Also funny that right after 1.1.6 dropped there was a large amount of people claiming 1.1.6 went too far in its nerfs to Bayonetta and how she was a ruined mid tier.

It would have been nice though if Smash 4 got one more balance patch just to tone down Bayo and Cloud, but I don't think it would have been worth potentially delaying Ultimate's development over and Smash 4 had a great run regardless as its scene moves on to Ultimate.

 

[Honest Slug]

Everyone's talking about Half-Life 3, and i'm over here wanting Portal 3.
Why cant VALVe count to 3?

Portal 2: Episode 1

 

[Noipoi]

Speaking of Portal, Chel for Smash!
Not because I want the character, but because I want a Codec-esque easter egg where GLaDOS comments on the other characters.
Maybe throw a little Wheatley in there too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Competitive Smash 4 was a game of amazing highs and horrendous lows.

I loved it overall, but darn it had some bad moments too.

Doesn't help that the game had tons of drama.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I saw someone comment on Smash 4's balancing earlier so I'm just going to share my thoughts on it. Honestly Smash 4's balance patches were actually pretty good up for the most part. They rarely nerfed a character so hard that they became un fun to play but managed to snuff out most of the toxic stuff such as the infamous Hoo-ha. A good chunk of the roster was viable at high level play and while we did see a lot more Sheiks and Zamuses then some other characters there did tend to be a healthy amount of character diversity.

But then that last wave of DLC came out. Cloud and Bayo were both sloppily balanced and support for the game quickly vanished. Bayo quickly turned out to be extremely toxic and only got worse as the metagame progressed. Remember when people claimed she had no neutral? Well as it turned out she has one, and it's pretty a pretty toxic one as well. And with no one working on making new DLC there was no one left trying to fix the problem either.

If they do DLC with Smash Ultimate, they've got to keep the balance patches going for a little bit even after DLC support ends. I know Sakurai will probably be exhausted by this point, but if that's the problem he might just need to swallow his pride and leave it to someone else. I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, Cloud killed low/mid level play and Bayonetta killed high level play.

 

[blazefan519]

Just gonna plop this here...

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I'm actually gonna disagree with Alpharad on this one. Yeah, booing isn't sportmanlike but it was pretty justified in my opinion at least when it got to the point when the players weren't even taking the match seriously, at all. That's what especially looks bad to our community. If the players can't take the game seriously, then why should the outsiders care. It sucks that Tweek didn't show up, and that Salem lost because at least with them, they actually respect their opponents and fight like they mean it.

And it must suck to be ZeRo. A game that you put your heart and soul into becoming the very best, and it ends in a ****show. Well, can't wait till his match with Sonicfox.

 

[KMDP]

Portal 2: Episode 1

Portal 2: Episode 2: Part 1

Followed by Portal 2: Episode 2: Part 2: Chapter 1...

This continues until the boxart/steam artwork is completely obscured by synonyms.

 

[Noipoi]

Portal 2: Episode 2: Part 1

Followed by Portal 2: Episode 2: Part 2: Chapter 1...

This continues until the boxart/steam artwork is completely obscured by synonyms.

Portal 2: Episode 3: Part 1: Chapter 1.







And Knuckles

 

[BlueMagician]

You know what, I forgot Bridge Constructor Portal is on the Switch, Don't think it means a Smash rep but it's there.