Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

Portal 2: Episode 3: Part 1: Chapter 1.







And Knuckles

Noipoi, what have you done? You counted up to three!! You've created a Valve Paradox!

 

[AreJay25]

Gonna be really interesting to see how Sakurai balances Bayo when it's all said and done.

A lot of the things people complain about are an intrinsic part of her design. Some of the changes I've heard so far seem fine, but I wonder just how far they're willing to go.

 

[Noipoi]

Noipoi, what have you done? You counted up to three!! You've created a Valve Paradox!

Don'tthinkaboutitdon'tthinkaboutitdon'tthinkaboutitdon'tthinkaboutit-

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I saw someone comment on Smash 4's balancing earlier so I'm just going to share my thoughts on it. Honestly Smash 4's balance patches were actually pretty good up for the most part. They rarely nerfed a character so hard that they became un fun to play but managed to snuff out most of the toxic stuff such as the infamous Hoo-ha. A good chunk of the roster was viable at high level play and while we did see a lot more Sheiks and Zamuses then some other characters there did tend to be a healthy amount of character diversity.

But then that last wave of DLC came out. Cloud and Bayo were both sloppily balanced and support for the game quickly vanished. Bayo quickly turned out to be extremely toxic and only got worse as the metagame progressed. Remember when people claimed she had no neutral? Well as it turned out she has one, and it's pretty a pretty toxic one as well. And with no one working on making new DLC there was no one left trying to fix the problem either.

If they do DLC with Smash Ultimate, they've got to keep the balance patches going for a little bit even after DLC support ends. I know Sakurai will probably be exhausted by this point, but if that's the problem he might just need to swallow his pride and leave it to someone else. I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, Cloud killed low/mid level play and Bayonetta killed high level play.

Yeah Smash 4's balance patches were pretty good outside of a few oversights, they just ended too soon. We now know why though they ended as soon as they did, as Ultimate was already beginning development before the DLC was even finished and thus they couldn't keep expending developmental resources on the old game. Ultimate won't have to worry about a new Smash game being planned and beginning development right after it releases, so I think we're pretty safe from balance patches ending too so soon again if they're necessary.

 

[Opossum]

You know what, I forgot Bridge Constructor Portal is on the Switch, Don't think it means a Smash rep but it's there.

Funny enough, Chell still would have been technically possible without it.

She was playable in the Wii U version of Lego Dimensions.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

And also Amazing Ampharos , I agree. The state of which the finals at this EVO was horrendous, I’ve never seen something like this. However, it was due to the lack of interest of Smash 4. Smash 4 was already on a declining road, and Smash Ultimate just killed it at that point. Everyone’s point of interest was in that game, and why shouldn’t they be? With the extreme amount of love being put into the games by the creators, the fan base is also putting extreme amounts of love into the game as well by trying to play and learn as much from the game as possible from a DEMO.

I think Smash Ultimate is leading up to a healthier meta within the Smash community. The greater amounts of connections between the people making the game and the players is outstanding, and proves that they’re willing to make Ultimate the best it can be, and the love for Ultimate despite it not being released yet shows how much the players are willing to do to make Ultimate as best as it can be competitively.

Hopefully, the players will make sure that happen, which I have no doubt in my mind they will.

In my years I've seen a lot of grand finals a lot like that, and it has nothing to do with the love of the game or the quality of the game or the interest in the game. It's just collusion, and people don't like to make those kinds of accusations since they're impossible to prove, but honestly, let's talk numbers. According to the smash wiki, the pot for smash Wii U at EVO was $13,580. First place gets 60% of the pot while second place gets 20%. That means first place wins $8,148 and second place wins $2,716. I don't care how much you're feeling the game; what possible explanation is there for not taking a $5,432 money match seriously? I certainly don't believe any top smashers are so rich as to look at $5,432 and say "I'm so rich that money is nothing to me". I can think of only one real explanation, and that's that you've agreed to split the winnings ahead of time.

I did look it up, and while the EVO tournament rules don't explicitly define pot splitting as collusion (though after some consternation I think the broader smash community in years past agreed that it was), it does explicitly ban collusion itself. Let me quote EVO's exact rule:

• Collusion of any kind with your competitors is considered cheating. If the Tournament Director determines that any competitor is colluding to manipulate the results or intentionally under performing, the collaborating players may be immediately disqualified. This determination is to be made at the sole discretion of the Tournament Director. Anyone disqualified in this manner forfeits all rights to any titles or prizes they might have otherwise earned for that tournament.

Frankly both of these guys were very, very lucky they weren't just DQ'd (and thus automatically forfeit more than $10k collectively); the EVO staff was being very kind in exercising their discretion in favor of these players. Apparently CaptainZach did apologize (I'm unaware if Lima did or not) which is a positive step, but it's deeply worrying that this sort of event could happen at all.

 

[IsmaR]

Before anyone freaks out that the thread is closed, I'm in the process of catching up over the past couple of pages (after having been catching up with the past 60 now over the course of the weekend, a lot going on what with EVO and all)

I'm giving the thread a time-out given how bad it's gotten in lieu of the EVO grand finals, along with a mix of other issues (treating this like it's a Social thread with the off topic comments, not even just the Smash 4 specific drama).

Yes it plain as day to everyone that the drama was in poor taste, and that the game as a whole is being represented very poorly. But this does not reflect on the community as a whole, the characters and meta (Bayonetta included as Ampharos so eloquently put it), nor the future for Smash (I agree with the notion that just because a new game is releasing doesn't mean everything is going to be "magically fixed").

 

[IsmaR]

Additionally, on the note of EVO discussion, I strongly recommend anyone still looking to voice their opinions on the matter to use the actual thread for this in the Smash 4 Competitive Section:

https://smashboards.com/threads/evo-2018-discussion-thread-for-smash-4.456980/

Do note this section has much stricter guidelines. Any blatant "ban Bayonetta/Smash 4 is dead" low effort posts will be warned.

 

[IsmaR]

I apologize for taking so long with this, as I did want to unlock the thread long before the daily site maintenance was about to begin, but it took longer to get a consensus between the staff on how we wanted to handle the issue. We're all human (surprisingly) and have our own views and all that.
-
The main problem with this thread boils down to the following part of my post:

I'm giving the thread a time-out given how bad it's gotten in lieu of the EVO grand finals, along with a mix of other issues (treating this like it's a Social thread with the off topic comments, not even just the Smash 4 specific drama).

It's been repeated numerous times over countless pages but is usually always lost in the sea of posts during times of high activity (Smash specific events, be they official exhibition/demos or a high profile event with the potential for a reveal, such as EVO). This thread (even linked in the first post) is often overlooked.

https://smashboards.com/threads/sma...-rules-and-guidelines-read-this-first.446330/

Please report any posts or users that violate the rules. Do not reprimand other users or engage in a flame/troll war or you will be reprimanded as well.

Global Forum Rules:

1. SWF Global Rules

2. Spoiler tag or quote large images.

3. No media-only posts. Large images should be spoilered ( [spoiler][/spoiler] )

4. When creating a new thread, please search the forum to avoid making a duplicate thread. There may already be a thread for the topic you wish to discuss. When posting a new character support thread, check the Support Thread Directory to see if it has already been made. Also, please try and make high quality OPs. One or two lines is a bit on the short side and isn't great for creating discussion.
4.5 In addition, a moveset alone is not a proper opening post for a Character Support Thread. Please include many details, like where they're from, and why people should be interested. Going all out is preferable.

5. Be respectful of other users and their opinions.

6. Posts must have some substance. Don't make posts that only consist of "yeah ok" or "good night" or "hello"...etc. These are considered spam.

7. Try to stay on topic. It's ok to veer off subject now and again, but these are not social threads. There is nearly no reason to be talking about Sonic in a DK thread, or politics in any thread.

8. Lastly, to reiterate, be respectful of other users.

As of now, there are no plans for a leak thread. Any rumors can be discussed in the Super Smash Bros for Switch Discussion thread.

Please do not make fake leak posts or threads here on Smashboards. There are proper websites to post them. Posting fake leaks will lead to a warning or infraction which depends on the situation and circumstances. Posting fake leaks from websites is permissible as long as they are treated as such.

The ones both underlined and made bold being the obvious ones that are constantly broken on a daily basis. We've decided for the time being to post only this warning/PSA and not retroactively infract for the time being, but we have decided to be more strict about the amount of posts breaking the off topic/"not a social thread" rules in particular (obviously all rules are important). At this time we are not looking to make this the section's "Social" thread, as it's still pre-release.

I picked out some random examples over the last few pages of posts that violate the above rules (not singling anyone out, no warnings were given here):

Using RNG I shall randomly select a number and the selected fighter shall be the next SS Tier!

View attachment 155742

Honestly that's not a bad outcome for me.

Aegisslash is an asset, a value to be sure. Though that becomes trivial when STAB EQ is common, and even so with US/UM Lando can do... everything which is baffling because as stacked as the aforementioned are they have glaring weaknesses that are abundant in the meta today; even though they are powerful they can't do EVERYTHING. Some a few and some a lot but not they can't perform multiple key jobs on a team its just, I, I don't know how we got here.

Defog is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Oh yes.

Everyone's talking about Half-Life 3, and i'm over here wanting Portal 3.
Why cant VALVe count to 3?

Pertaining to Smash for Wii U discussion, it's a slippery slope. As I said in my previous post:

Yes it plain as day to everyone that the drama was in poor taste, and that the game as a whole is being represented very poorly. But this does not reflect on the community as a whole, the characters and meta (Bayonetta included as Ampharos so eloquently put it), nor the future for Smash (I agree with the notion that just because a new game is releasing doesn't mean everything is going to be "magically fixed").

We're not looking to censor anyone/be the opinion police on the matter, but discussing it in this thread specifically should have at least some relevance to the topic of the section (how it pertains in Smash Ultimate) rather than just being a place to air out your personal thoughts.

More examples, these posts did perfectly acceptable jobs of both discussion of the EVO situation/Smash 4 game balanc and relation to Ultimate moving forward:

After watching that grand finals, I want to say one thing:

if Bayonetta (or any other character) in Ultimate causes this much toxicity again, can we please have an honest discussion about a ban? What I saw today was really upsetting. I'm not talking about the stalling or the friendly nature of grand finals. I'm talking about a character who is miles better than everyone else. I'm talking about a character who fundamentally goes against the nature of Smash Bros. I'm talking about a character who has actively caused several members to leave the community.

Hell, the common feeling right now is "Thank God this game is about to die, December 7th can't come soon enough!"
That is NOT how players should view their own game.

Despite how much hate the character received and how vocal the community was, the idea of a ban was never really entertained (outside of smaller locals for instance). It's impossible to say, but I'd wager that had she been banned, there would be a more positive reception to the tournament we just witnessed. Obviously inducing a ban is not something we should want, but in cases like this, it might have been the best option.

Now please don't take this as me saying "ban bayonetta in ultimate before it releases!" because that's certainly not what I'm trying to say. But IF we see a repeat, can we please take action instead of hiding behind a myriad of entitled defenses?

I saw someone comment on Smash 4's balancing earlier so I'm just going to share my thoughts on it. Honestly Smash 4's balance patches were actually pretty good up for the most part. They rarely nerfed a character so hard that they became un fun to play but managed to snuff out most of the toxic stuff such as the infamous Hoo-ha. A good chunk of the roster was viable at high level play and while we did see a lot more Sheiks and Zamuses then some other characters there did tend to be a healthy amount of character diversity.

But then that last wave of DLC came out. Cloud and Bayo were both sloppily balanced and support for the game quickly vanished. Bayo quickly turned out to be extremely toxic and only got worse as the metagame progressed. Remember when people claimed she had no neutral? Well as it turned out she has one, and it's pretty a pretty toxic one as well. And with no one working on making new DLC there was no one left trying to fix the problem either.

If they do DLC with Smash Ultimate, they've got to keep the balance patches going for a little bit even after DLC support ends. I know Sakurai will probably be exhausted by this point, but if that's the problem he might just need to swallow his pride and leave it to someone else. I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, Cloud killed low/mid level play and Bayonetta killed high level play.

Gonna be really interesting to see how Sakurai balances Bayo when it's all said and done.

A lot of the things people complain about are an intrinsic part of her design. Some of the changes I've heard so far seem fine, but I wonder just how far they're willing to go.

I realize it's a loaded topic that has no clear right/wrong stance, but again, the actions of a few do not reflect on the community as a whole. If Smash 4 is dead to you _personally_ then that's perfectly fine, no one is forcing you to continue participating or even discussing it (obviously a lot of people are dropping it the moment Ultimate releases). But saying it's dead as of this moment just because of one event is not only extreme, but completely inaccurate as there will at least be tournaments still going (Super Smash Con is literally next weekend) up until December. If your definition of a game being dead/alive is how it does at EVO/whether it comes back the next year, when clearly the community is going to be largely the same for Ult, then I encourage you to broaden your perspective.

As a reminder, please use the link from here instead of derailing this thread if you feel the need to go in depth but not specifically relating to Ultimate.

Additionally, on the note of EVO discussion, I strongly recommend anyone still looking to voice their opinions on the matter to use the actual thread for this in the Smash 4 Competitive Section:

https://smashboards.com/threads/evo-2018-discussion-thread-for-smash-4.456980/

Do note this section has much stricter guidelines. Any blatant "ban Bayonetta/Smash 4 is dead" low effort posts will be warned.

All of this being said, we apologize again for the delay, and appreciate those of you that return to this thread/stay regulars even in this long information drought (believe me, I want the game to come out/the next bit of info to drop as soon as the next person). We've got a little over 4 months to go hopefully with no delays at least, and we're just trying to keep the ship from sinking any further (all these leaks don't help). I promise we'll try our best to keep things smooth sailing from here.

until our next meltdown

 

[Zinith]

..........so any thoughts on how the mechanics of Smash Ultimate will affect neutral?

(random topic to get things moving)

 

[MSmariosonic]

Sooooo

124 days left to go.

Why can't christmas come early this year?

 

[Shroob]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's not afraid to call out the information drought how it is.

I feel bad since E3 gave us soo, soo much new and exciting info, like, Ridley obviously, but let's face the facts.


We're two months past E3 come this coming week more or less, and besides music, the ONLY new piece of info we've received is that Delfino Plaza is back. Even though Smash will sell like crazy regardless, this is kinda bad PR when your PotDs have been literally nothing new for two entire months.



I don't think I'm asking for a lot to show off a returning item or Assist Trophy not in the demo; I'm not asking for new stages or characters, just SOMETHING that wasn't in the E3 build, or stuff that we were able to see from looking at the website itself. Delfino's a good start, but don't stop there. Show us like, I dunno, the friggen Bumper.



I feel greedy asking for more, but at the same time... it's been 2 months since we got our first real blip of life. We're honestly due for 'something' new, even if it's as small as an item like Lip's Stick or something.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Vergeben talked some more, what he said:

*The mystery character he hasn't revealed yet is indeed the gen 7 pokemon.
*He has heard who it is, but that is the information that he only heard from one source and isn't concrete yet.
*He heard from multiple people that it's not Decidueye, including supposedly sources he doesn't even get Smash information from.
*He heard from two of his Smash sources that it's not Decidueye, Mimikyu, nor Lycanroc.
*He would supposedly share who the pokemon is, but since it's only coming from one person and the other sources are working on finding out who it is, he is waiting to pull the trigger on it. He also just might let it be a "surprise" since it would supposedly be more fun for us to find out who it is if no one else leaks it.
*He says it's going to be controversial and "disappointing" because it's not one of those three disconfirmed pokemon. (So really nothing more indicating on who it could be).

So that's everything from Vergeben on who the mystery character is and how he is able to disconfirm pokemon it isn't. You can read his post here.

 

[Idon]

Sooooo

124 days left to go.

Why can't christmas come early this year?

Santa thinks we've all been naughty children this year.

 

[KMDP]

..........so any thoughts on how the mechanics of Smash Ultimate will affect neutral?

(random topic to get things moving)

It will probably be a hybrid between Melee and Smash 4, considering it's built off of Smash 4 and also have directional air dodges.

This is the really boring short answer, though. I don't know enough about competitive Smash to give the long answer.

 

[Shroob]

Vergeben talked some more, what he said:

*The mystery character he hasn't revealed yet is indeed the gen 7 pokemon.
*He has heard who it is, but that is the information that he only heard from one source and is unclarified about.
*He heard from multiple people that it's not Decidueye, including supposedly sources he doesn't even get Smash information from.
*He heard from two of his Smash sources that it's not Decidueye, Mimikyu, nor Lycanroc.
*He would supposedly share who the pokemon is, but since it's only coming from one person and the other sources are working on finding out who it is, he is waiting to pull the trigger on it. He also just might let it be a "surprise" since it would be supposedly be more fun for us to find out who it is if no one else leaks it.
*He says it's going to be controversial and "disappointing" because its one of those three disconfirmed pokemon. (So really nothing more indicating on who it could be).

So that's everything from Vergeben on who the mystery character is and how he is able to disconfirm pokemon it isn't. You can read his post here.

Well, Incenaroar was sure as hell 'controversial' last night.

Though, otherwise, I can't really think of any Pokemon that would fit that bill AND be a Gen 7 mon.


I feel like Buzzwole would be welcomed with open arms, so that really only leaves Tapu Koko or Marshadow as potential 'Controversial' picks, including Incenaroar I feel.



I feel it almost 'has' to be Incenaroar if he's legit. It would piss off a LOT of people(People HATED that the Fire starter yet again was 2 legged and ALMOST a Fighting Type), and it would be a sore spot for Decidueye fans as well.

 

[Apollo500]

..........so any thoughts on how the mechanics of Smash Ultimate will affect neutral?

(random topic to get things moving)

The broader range of movement options and lesser landing lag on aerials will go a long way to making it more enjoyable IMO.

I just hope King Dedede actually has a neutral game this time around...

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Well, Incenaroar was sure as hell 'controversial' last night.

Though, otherwise, I can't really think of any Pokemon that would fit that bill AND be a Gen 7 mon.


I feel like Buzzwole would be welcomed with open arms, so that really only leaves Tapu Koko or Marshadow as potential 'Controversial' picks, including Incenaroar I feel.



I feel it almost 'has' to be Incenaroar if he's legit.

He is saying it's controversial just because it's not Decidueye, Mimikyu, nor Lycanroc since they were the three apparent frontrunners that fans were gunning for, so it's really not an indication at all for which pokemon it is.

 

[Zinith]

I think my boi will do well with the better landing options

 

[Shroob]

He is saying it's controversial just because it's not Decidueye, Mimikyu, nor Lycanroc since they were the three apparent frontrunners, so it's really not an indication at all for which pokemon it is.

Right, but at the same time, well, look at what happened last night.

I don't necessarily 'believe' him, but if the Pokemon Company has a hand in Smash, Ash is going to be getting an Incenaroar, and both Tapu Koko and Marshadow are relevant due to recent things they did, so I feel it has to be one of those 3.


There really 'aren't' a lot of Pokemon it could be from Gen 7 when you break it down.

Bewear and Alolan Raichu are out of the running. And if Mimikyu, Lycanroc and Decidueye are also out, the potential candidates shrink further.

 

[KMDP]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's not afraid to call out the information drought how it is.

I feel bad since E3 gave us soo, soo much new and exciting info, like, Ridley obviously, but let's face the facts.


We're two months past E3 come this coming week more or less, and besides music, the ONLY new piece of info we've received is that Delfino Plaza is back. Even though Smash will sell like crazy regardless, this is kinda bad PR when your PotDs have been literally nothing new for two entire months.



I don't think I'm asking for a lot to show off a returning item or Assist Trophy not in the demo; I'm not asking for new stages or characters, just SOMETHING that wasn't in the E3 build, or stuff that we were able to see from looking at the website itself. Delfino's a good start, but don't stop there. Show us like, I dunno, the friggen Bumper.



I feel greedy asking for more, but at the same time... it's been 2 months since we got our first real blip of life. We're honestly due for 'something' new, even if it's as small as an item like Lip's Stick or something.

It's a wait that is worsened because of the huge information blowout at E3.

He is saying it's controversial just because it's not Decidueye, Mimikyu, nor Lycanroc since they were the three apparent frontrunners that fans were gunning for, so it's really not an indication at all for which pokemon it is.

Considering how many people who said last night that they either don't want or otherwise don't care for Incineroar, I think he's "controversial" enough to be the Pokémon.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Well, Incenaroar was sure as hell 'controversial' last night.

Though, otherwise, I can't really think of any Pokemon that would fit that bill AND be a Gen 7 mon.


I feel like Buzzwole would be welcomed with open arms, so that really only leaves Tapu Koko or Marshadow as potential 'Controversial' picks, including Incenaroar I feel.



I feel it almost 'has' to be Incenaroar if he's legit. It would piss off a LOT of people(People HATED that the Fire starter yet again was 2 legged and ALMOST a Fighting Type), and it would be a sore spot for Decidueye fans as well.

He didn't said that the Gen VII Pokémon is controversial in itself, but that it would be controversial because it isn't Decidueye, Lycanroc or Mimikyu, who were the Top 3 most wanted and supported Gen VII Pokémon. It would as controversial as having Cranky Kong instead of Dixie and King K. Rool.

Edit:

Anyway I think there are still some validates candidates, like Tapu Koko, Zereaora as an Echo, Nihilego, good old Rowlet...the possibilities are a lot.
While TPC has some saying on the characters, it is really all up to Sakurai to choose. If he never felt that Inceneroar was Smash material, he wouldn't have added him just because TPC planned on having it in the anime. Just look at how much the promoted Zoroark, but it still wasn't in Smash For.

 

[KingBroly]

It should be Alolan Exeggutor

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Right, but at the same time, well, look at what happened last night.

I don't necessarily 'believe' him, but if the Pokemon Company has a hand in Smash, Ash is going to be getting an Incenaroar, and both Tapu Koko and Marshadow are relevant due to recent things they did, so I feel it has to be one of those 3.


There really 'aren't' a lot of Pokemon it could be from Gen 7 when you break it down.

Bewear and Alolan Raichu are out of the running. And if Mimikyu, Lycanroc and Decidueye are also out, the potential candidates shrink further.

It's a wait that is worsened because of the huge information blowout at E3.

Considering how many people say that either don't want or otherwise don't care for Incineroar, I think he's "controversial" enough to be the Pokémon.

Don't focus on the word "controversial", according to Vergeben's words any gen 7 pokemon that isn't Decidueye/Mimikyu/Lycanroc is going to be "controversial", so that is irrelevant for speculating who the pokemon could be.

 

[Shroob]

He didn't said that the Gen VII Pokémon is controversial in itself, but that it would be controversial because it isn't Decidueye, Lycanroc or Mimikyu, who were the Top 3 most wanted and supported Gen VII Pokémon. It would as controversial as having Cranky Kong instead of Dixie and King K. Rool.

Edit:

Anyway I think there are still some validates candidates, like Tapu Koko, Zereaora as an Echo, Nihilego, good old Rowlet...the possibilities are a lot.
While TPC has some saying on the characters, it is really all up to Sakurai to choose. If he never felt that Inceneroar was Smash material, he wouldn't have added him just because TPC planned on having it in the anime. Just look at how much the promoted Zoroark, but it still wasn't in Smash For.

To be fair, Zoroark was made to basically be a Lucario 2.0 and only really had 1 movie.

It didn't work.

 

[ZephyrZ]

..........so any thoughts on how the mechanics of Smash Ultimate will affect neutral?

(random topic to get things moving)

Being able to cancle dashes into smashes/tilts is huge boon to agressive play. It's basically a universal buff to everyone's approach options. And while I tend to stick to a defensive play style myself, I ultimately think this change is going to be for the better as matches are no fun to play or watch if both players are hesitent to approach.

 

[PSIGuy]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's not afraid to call out the information drought how it is.

It would've been a decent idea to not have all the videos up by default but too late for that. I do think Ultimate's focus on returning content at the expense of new content does limit promotion options, though. A drip feed of meaningful news and an ad campaign based on all old content returning don't mix too well.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Just look at how much the promoted Zoroark, but it still wasn't in Smash For.

To be fair with Zoroark, he was probably more a victim of timing, Pokemon X/Y was close enough that Sakurai opted for a gen 6 pokemon and he wasn't prioritizing adding more than one pokemon newcomer, so Zoroark was essentially ineligible by default (plus TPC stopped pushing him long by the point of Smash 4's roster being decided). If Smash 4 started development a couple years earlier or even just a year earlier, Zoroark would have had a very legitimate shot of making it in.

That said your point is valid and Sakurai certainly doesn't need to pick the pokemon TPC wants to push most.

 

[vaanrose]

He is saying it's controversial just because it's not Decidueye, Mimikyu, nor Lycanroc since they were the three apparent frontrunners that fans were gunning for, so it's really not an indication at all for which pokemon it is.

I'd thought we'd established he never called the mystery character controversial, and that was other people making assumptions?

 

[Staarih]

To be fair, Zoroark was made to basically be a Lucario 2.0 and only really had 1 movie.

It didn't work.

To be fair, it most likely would have been Zoroark if they hadn't looked forward to Gen 6, which we had no precedent on.

Anyway, Pokémon speculation is gonna get real interesting if people feel the big contenders (which we feel are big at least) are out of the way. I'm still iffy on Verge tho.

 

[NintenRob]

I definitely think it will be Tapu Koko, it's been pushed as this cool new Pokemon since reveal and really represents Alola well with its role as Island Guardian.


Heck, in the current anime opening, the first two words are literally "Tapu Koko"


I honestly just don't see them picking another starter now that Pkmn Trainer is back. An Island Guardian is perfect for Alola though and Koko has been the most promoted by a country. Important role in both the game and anime.

And it's colour options just right itself. First three based on the other guardians and the remaining four being the shiny colours.

I really want to see a fan edit of that now

 

[KMDP]

I'd thought we'd established he never called the mystery character controversial, and that was other people making assumptions?

Vergeben talked some more, what he said:
*He says it's going to be controversial and "disappointing" because its not one of those three disconfirmed pokemon. (So really nothing more indicating on who it could be).

He later came out and said that the character would be a controversial one (because it isn't one of the most popular picks).

 

[MSmariosonic]

I wonder when the stages and items pages open on the website.

Why aren't they open though?

Hopefully it will be a case of everywhere is here and everything is here

 

[vaanrose]

He later came out and said that the character would be a controversial one (because it isn't one of the most popular picks).

Did he refer to this character as controversial before saying it was the Pokemon character?

 

[Shroob]

The thing about Gen 7 is, it has such a small pool of Pokemon to choose from.

If we eliminate:

Lunalu, Solgaleo, Bewear and Alolan Raichu due to them being in Pokeballs.

And:

Mimikyu, Lycanroc and Decidueye due to Verge..

That's already a good chunk of potential candidates as is.


I'm also hard pressed to consider:

Poipole, Stakataka, Blacephalon, Zerarora and Naganadel out as well due to Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon's more 'recent' release of 2017, meaning they were most likely made after the project plan was finalized.



But even then, looking at the entirety of Gen 7's roster... There just AREN'T that many Pokemon left, or at least, ones that would even come close to making sense, unless you're a hardcore "Dhelmise for Smash U" or "Shiinotic for Smash U" kinda guy.



Incenaroar, Marshadow, Buzzwole, Tapu Koko, Magearna,.

To me, these seem like the only potential choices if we eliminate ALL the ones above.

 

[Idon]

It's a moot point anyways since controversial as a term tells us nothing about the character. Any Pokemon rep could be justified as "controversial" and you know he's going to jump on whatever it is saying "yup, called it! That was exactly who I was referring to."

 

[KMDP]

Did he refer to this character as controversial before saying it was the Pokemon character?

Well, no, obviously. As you said, it was people making assumptions.

 

[Zinith]

I just hope that characters who historically have a disadvantage against sword characters *hint hint* will be given other options to counteract it...

 

[vaanrose]

Well, no, obviously. As you said, it was people making assumptions.

That doesn't strike anybody else as odd?. He hints at a character, does not call them controversial, other people start saying he did call them controversial, to the point where he has to clarify why the character is controversial even though he wasn't the one to say that in the first place?

 

[KMDP]

I just hope that characters who historically have a disadvantage against sword characters *hint hint* will be given other options to counteract it...

Don't get your hopes up, honestly.