Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[RawstyleEevee]

I think its Incineroar to then. It was the most disliked starter from the Gen 7 ones and like Shroob said when the Gen 7 starter designs leaked Incineroar had art with Ash and Mallow, which showed that Gamefreak sorta wanted to push him the most.

Funfact that concept art of Mallow was before we knew she would be an NPC and when her official art got shown in Corocoro the starter leak became legit and everyone was super pissed at Incineroar, while Rowlet fans where satisfied and Popplio did not get bullied anymore, because people atleast like Primarina.

Incineroar also has the best hidden ability from the 3 starters, which is perhaps something to, because Blaziken & Greninja are infamous for a reason.

Honestly I feel if Incineroar gets in, its a Greninja situation, but this time Gamefreak overestimated the popularity of it, unlike Greninja, which imo felt natural

 

[osby]

Don't get your hopes up, honestly.

As long as I can beat with , I'll be fine with Ultimate's balancing.

 

[Shroob]

That doesn't strike anybody else as odd?. He hints at a character, does not call them controversial, other people start saying he did call them controversial, to the point where he has to clarify why the character is controversial even though he wasn't the one to say that in the first place?

It's Verge.

Literally everything he says is odd, but we entertain the 1 percent chance of him not being full of **** because we're both starved for information, and 4chan leaks are just awful to deal with. (Bless Tehponycorn for the **** he puts up with)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So definetly a Gen 7 Pokemon.

Raises the question of where those Gengar rumors came from and why they stuck around so long.

Probably Gen 1-ism. If I made a "leak" where the Pokemon was Gardevoir or Lilligant or Zoroark then it wouldn't get the time of day.

 

[KMDP]

That doesn't strike anybody else as odd?. He hints at a character, does not call them controversial, other people start saying he did call them controversial, to the point where he has to clarify why the character is controversial even though he wasn't the one to say that in the first place?

Hmm... that is odd.

Either he's playing to people's assumptions. Or he did originally say the pick would be controversial, then got a little orwellian on his post later.

 

[Danpal65]

That doesn't strike anybody else as odd?. He hints at a character, does not call them controversial, other people start saying he did call them controversial, to the point where he has to clarify why the character is controversial even though he wasn't the one to say that in the first place?

This is another thing in a long line of things that just makes Vergy Bergy Pudding and Pie seem really suss. I honestly believe that he may have known about Ridley, maybe, but outside of that he's just trying to get attention with what hasn't been deconfirmed at this point and will get people talking about him.

 

[Zinith]

Don't get your hopes up, honestly.

I just want to be able to APPROACH a sword user...

 

[Danpal65]

I just want to be able to APPROACH a sword user...

Just use Side-B

 

[dezeray112]

Vergeben talked some more, what he said:

*The mystery character he hasn't revealed yet is indeed the gen 7 pokemon.
*He has heard who it is, but that is the information that he only heard from one source and isn't concrete yet.
*He heard from multiple people that it's not Decidueye, including supposedly sources he doesn't even get Smash information from.
*He heard from two of his Smash sources that it's not Decidueye, Mimikyu, nor Lycanroc.
*He would supposedly share who the pokemon is, but since it's only coming from one person and the other sources are working on finding out who it is, he is waiting to pull the trigger on it. He also just might let it be a "surprise" since it would supposedly be more fun for us to find out who it is if no one else leaks it.
*He says it's going to be controversial and "disappointing" because its not one of those three disconfirmed pokemon. (So really nothing more indicating on who it could be).

So that's everything from Vergeben on who the mystery character is and how he is able to disconfirm pokemon it isn't. You can read his post here.

A controversial choice and not a popular pick you say? Hmm......need to have a think about this one.

EDIT: By a long shot, what if this turned out to be Lusamine fused with Nilhego?

 

[Zinith]

Just use Side-B

Maybe this time it won't be such a **** move that I could say that with a straight face

 

[RawstyleEevee]

To be fair, it most likely would have been Zoroark if they hadn't looked forward to Gen 6, which we had no precedent on.

Anyway, Pokémon speculation is gonna get real interesting if people feel the big contenders (which we feel are big at least) are out of the way. I'm still iffy on Verge tho.

Nah Zoroark, even got phased out by Lucario in Gen 5. They brought Lucario back to promote BW2 and he was also I believe very prominent at the end of the Gen 5 anime. Also Gamefreak played it safe in Gen 6 promoting wise, because instead of creating a new mascot, they just promoted new forms of old fanfav namely, Mega Mewtwo Y, Mega Lucario, Mega Charizard X and Sylveon, showing that they learned their lesson with Zoroark

 

[vaanrose]

It's Verge.

Literally everything he says is odd, but we entertain the 1 percent chance of him not being full of **** because we're both starved for information, and 4chan leaks are just awful to deal with. (Bless Tehponycorn for the **** he puts up with)

In this case, though, it almost sounds like he can't keep his story straight. But in any case, we at least have reason to believe he's not responsible for making up this Pokemon rumor. I guess I'm just not convinced he didn't just claim a vague "mystery character" so that when another rumor started gaining traction he could act like he got the info first again.

 

[Danpal65]

Maybe this time it won't be such a **** move that I could say that with a straight face

If it had some sort of super armour for a period of time or something Yoshi would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

This is another thing in a long line of things that just makes Vergy Bergy Pudding and Pie seem really suss. I honestly believe that he may have known about Ridley, maybe, but outside of that he's just trying to get attention with what hasn't been deconfirmed at this point and will get people talking about him.

Well there has been rumblings from other people that they're hearing the same Smash information as Vergeben, so besides him getting multiple things right with nothing wrong so far, there is some soft corroboration going on with his claims (I say soft as none of these other insiders have definitively came out yet other than Loz on Gamefaqs).

A controversial choice and not a popular pick you say? Hmm......need to have a think about this one.

Like I said, don't focus on that part, he is just saying it's controversial because it's not Decidueye/Mimikyu/Lycanroc, so any gen 7 pokemon but those three fits the bill to him.

 

[Shroob]

In this case, though, it almost sounds like he can't keep his story straight. But in any case, we at least have reason to believe he's not responsible for making up this Pokemon rumor. I guess I'm just not convinced he didn't just claim a vague "mystery character" so that when another rumor started gaining traction he could act like he got the info first again.

How can we be sure though?

Because his 'sources' said?

 

[Zinith]

If it had some sort of super armour for a period of time or something Yoshi would greatly appreciate it.

Considering that it looks like Smash Ultimate is willing to change long established traditions of Yoshi's moveset (the egg bounce), that's one of my top 5 hopes for him. Honestly he should've had armor for that move since the beginning, as then it would actually hold its INTENDED UTILITY!!!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Remember that back in the day, we thought the Gen 6 rep would be Hawlucha.

(I still want him in the next round of Pokken)

 

[NintenRob]

It should be Alolan Exeggutor

In all seriousness, while I don't expect one playable obviously, Exeggcutor Island is my prediction for a Pokemon stage. Exeggcutor heads as platforms. Sounds perfect. Maybe an Ultra Wormhole could still be worked into the stage, I don't think it really matters where they pick for that, wormholes were all over the place in that game. But I definitely think they'll want to work Alolan Exeggcutor into the stage.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Hawlucha was robbed in both Smash and Tekken.

Like how is a luchador bird not in either the main Nintendo fighting game or the Pokemon fighting game.

Sense? It makes none.

 

[Zinith]

Would Salazzle be considered a "controversial" Gen 7 pick or would she (yes, a gendered Pokemon) just be "there?"

 

[Danpal65]

Well there has been rumblings from other people that they're hearing the same Smash information as Vergeben, so besides him getting multiple things right with nothing wrong so far, there is some soft corroboration going on with his claims (I say soft as none of these other insiders have definitively came out yet other than Loz on Gamefaqs).

Well he said Simon would have been revealed at E3 didn't he?

 

[KMDP]

Remember that back in the day, we thought the Gen 6 rep would be Hawlucha.

(I still want him in the next round of Pokken)

But we have Pikachu Libre now, Hawlucha is completely obsolete.

 

[NintenRob]

Would Salazzle be considered a "controversial" Gen 7 pick or would she (yes, a gendered Pokemon) just be "there?"

I think it would be the latter, it was a popular enough Pokemon thanks to its stats, but I don't think anyone would care if they did anything with it.

 

[vaanrose]

How can we be sure though?

Because his 'sources' said?

You mean how can we be sure he didn't make up this rumor? Just that other people are backing up having heard it before Verg went public. Delzethin says he was contacted by one of them.

 

[Shroob]

You mean how can we be sure he didn't make up this rumor? Just that other people are backing up having heard it before Verg went public. Delzethin says he was contacted by one of them.

So basically, we're relying on Verge, who's the epitome of an unreliable narrator, who's being fed information from several people at once who may be legitimate, but who potentially could also not be.

Riveting.

 

[Idon]

So basically, we're relying on Verge, who's the epitome of an unreliable narrator, who's being fed information from several people at once who may be legitimate, but who potentially could also not be.

Riveting.

Would you rather talk about the current state of Smash 4's meta?
Discussion topics are in high demand nowadays.

 

[Shroob]

Would you rather talk about the current state of Smash 4's meta?
Discussion topics are in high demand nowadays.

Even though I love leak discussions, I think others have said it better than I could why stroking Verge's ego is a bad idea.

 

[Staarih]

Nah Zoroark, even got phased out by Lucario in Gen 5. They brought Lucario back to promote BW2 and he was also I believe very prominent at the end of the Gen 5 anime. Also Gamefreak played it safe in Gen 6 promoting wise, because instead of creating a new mascot, they just promoted new forms of old fanfav namely, Mega Mewtwo Y, Mega Lucario, Mega Charizard X and Sylveon, showing that they learned their lesson with Zoroark

I mean yeah, I guess that's all true - but even so, if they hadn't gone for a Gen 6 Pokémon for Smash 4, they definitely would've picked one from Gen 5 instead of having no Pokémon newcomer at all, no matter how much better the marketing for likes of Lucario etc were handled. Zoroark had the most going for it out of anyone from Gen 5, having a movie (one of the highest-grossing ones in Japan) and being treated as an event Pokémon in B/W. But of course that's all obsolete now as they skipped Gen 5 and went straight to Gen 6.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Well he said Simon would have been revealed at E3 didn't he?

No he never said Simon would be revealed at E3, all he said in regards to E3 was that he heard Ridley would be revealed there.

 

[Curious Villager]

I think the most prominent/popular potential Gen 7 pokemon not yet "disconfirmed" we would have left.

Rowlet
Inceneroar
Primarina
Tapu-Koko
Silvally
Necrozma

Ultra Beasts:
Nihilego
Buzzwole
Pheromosa
Poipole

I think that's all, I might have missed some though, at least, assuming Decidueye, Mimikyu and Lycanroc supposedly really are out of the running...

Also I agree that Zoroark was more of a victim of timing rather than Gamefreak dumping it midway through. There really weren't any other prominent Gen 5 Pokemon Sakurai would have picked other than maybe Genesect who wasn't officially revealed until the tail end of Gen 5 and I highly doubt he would have skipped that gen entirely had it not been for Gen 6 barging in and taking away its priority. Heck Zoroark is interestingly the only non legendary/mythical Pokemon (other than Goldeen who is more a troll summon anyway) that comes out of a Master Ball rather than a regular Pokeball, so Sakurai did see it in that he would at least compensate it in some way rather than just treating it like any other old Pokemon in the game.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Salazzle has potential. Thanks to the fact it's a Totem Pokemon it can be as large as they need her to be plus Smash has never made use of Ivysaur's Poison type so there's potential for a damage over time character. Honestly, I thought that's what the Inklings would be but they ended up as Debuff-types instead.

 

[KMDP]

So basically, we're relying on Verge, who's the epitome of an unreliable narrator, who's being fed information from several people at once who may be legitimate, but who potentially could also not be.

Riveting.

Not only that, but Vergeben's sources may not even exist.

 

[L9999]

I just want to be able to APPROACH a sword user...

With sword users having less landing lag I say it is going to be even worse. I am not saying that to spite on even, I have the impression will be complete garbage.

Nah Zoroark, even got phased out by Lucario in Gen 5. They brought Lucario back to promote BW2 and he was also I believe very prominent at the end of the Gen 5 anime. Also Gamefreak played it safe in Gen 6 promoting wise, because instead of creating a new mascot, they just promoted new forms of old fanfav namely, Mega Mewtwo Y, Mega Lucario, Mega Charizard X and Sylveon, showing that they learned their lesson with Zoroark

If anything that shows some Pokemon have staying power like . It can't all be about the rat right?

 

[RawstyleEevee]

With sword users having less landing lag I say it is going to be even worse. I am not saying that to spite on even, I have the impression will be complete garbage.


If anything that shows some Pokemon have staying power like . It can't all be about the rat right?

Well I'm a Lucario main, so you don't have to tell me that

But what some people didn't realise in Smash 4 speculation is that Lucario is in gamefreaks eyes the Secondary Mascot/ Overall face of the newer games.

 

[SquashiniKun]

Just got up, what happened? Did anything get announced yet?

 

[osby]

Salazzle has potential. Thanks to the fact it's a Totem Pokemon it can be as large as they need her to be plus Smash has never made use of Ivysaur's Poison type so there's potential for a damage over time character. Honestly, I thought that's what the Inklings would be but they ended up as Debuff-types instead.

That's what White Pikmin is for.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well I'm a Lucario main, so you don't have to tell me that

But what some people didn't realise in Smash 4 speculation is that Lucario is in gamefreaks eyes the Secondary Mascot/ Overall face of the newer games.

Forget Smash 4 speculation, people were saying that Lucario would be out the door as soon as we saw the traumatised Inklings.

 

[Danpal65]

Just got up, what happened? Did anything get announced yet?

No announcements, as to be expected.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Let me spell out why them not taking it seriously is really upsetting and why playing Bayonetta isn't. Playing top tier in the end is playing to win, and while I have a lot I could say about why Bayonetta is what she is and how things could be different, at the end of the day it is what it is and you have to respect competitors doing what it takes to win.

What's not cool is getting to grand finals in a supermajor like EVO, crushing the hopes and dreams of so many along the way to propel yourself to the top, and then you treat the match like a joke. With the amount of money different between first and second I can't believe they were goofing off just because they're friends or to troll the crowd booing Bayonetta either; they're obviously splitting which is collusion and probably against the tournament rules (if it isn't, it should be) but also impossible to prove. There are so many just huge problems with this. It's incredibly disrespectful to everyone you beat to get there; we all saw how hard Nietono was visibly trying to overcome the wall of nonsense, and then as soon as he's defeated despite his best efforts everything is a joke? He wanted it badly, and the least you can do if you're the guy to take it away from him is give it your best from then on out. The second is that when the top players don't respect the spirit of competition you undermine the whole tournament. Like really, what are people watching that supposed to think? Smash isn't a real esport; it's as fake as pro wrestling and just a joke and there's no reason to care about it? When people ask why Smash isn't taken as seriously among the broader competitive gaming scene as other fighters, don't even try to talk about game mechanics or anything Nintendo ever did. It's this. It's this right here, and it's horribly toxic. I haven't been following the competitive scene for the past year or so either so I don't know how much that has been happening recently, but probably the main reason I quit smash 4 was because I saw just too much bad behavior from the community so this isn't encouraging at all to come back and see.

The day Bayo busted out her strangely exponential playstyle and strengths that made her play beyond the confinements and rules set by Smash, was more or less going to breed on this type of mindset and disrespect we saw in the tournament.

Bayonetta made Smash 4 and the whole cast look like a joke. So it the end, it became treated as such.

 

[KMDP]

Well I'm a Lucario main, so you don't have to tell me that

But what some people didn't realise in Smash 4 speculation is that Lucario is in gamefreaks eyes the Secondary Mascot/ Overall face of the newer games.

Pikachu - Face of the Series as a Whole
Charizard & Mewtwo - Face of the Original Games
Lucario (& Greninja) - Face of the Newer Games

Also,
Pichu - Face of the baby Pokémon mechanic.