Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[BeardyBennett]

So, leakypandy has said that there will be a Nintendo Direct in mid August and a Nindies Showcase very early on in August. I know that he has gotten a lot of things wrong in the past, but this does line up with loz18 saying there will be a Nintendo Direct that will feature Smash sometime in August. Either way, I think it's definitely something to keep an eye out for.

I feel like at this point all the August "leaks" are just because there can't be anymore July "leaks". Though I would be surprised if nothing came this month.

 

[Deleted member]

But surely Sakurai will make an unexpected visit during the very last minute and reveal Heihachi, Spring Man, and Goku as a tag team fighter!? A leaker on 4chan said so!

Ugh, those aren't the reps I wanted! This game's character select screen is going to suck. I'm going to have to wait for the next game's character select. Hopefully they'll add more reps for those series that need more reps.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Wonder if we'll get a September leak just to shake things up.

Maybe August 29th when there's 100 days to go

 

[Icedragonadam]

So if there's a newcomer in August here's a list of characters I could see getting revealed:

Isaac- 17th Anniversary August 1st(JP)
Ashley- Warioware Gold release August 2nd(JP)
Lloyd Irving- Tales of Symphonia 15th Anniversary August 29th(JP)
Yuri Lowell- Tales of Vesperia 10th Anniversary August 7th(JP)
Elma- *Xenoblade 2 Spoilers*

I'll add more if there's other August Anniversaries and releases I forgot about you can chip in with:

I don't expect Simon until September when Castlevania's Anniversary is.

 

[SquashiniKun]

I'm personally expecting 12 newcomers at the least.

Because 1. It's a cool way to reference the first game's roster of 12 characters, & 2. It fits in with Sakurai saying that there will be less challengers.

 

[Deleted member]

Wonder if we'll get a September leak just to shake things up.

Maybe August 29th when there's 100 days to go

August "Leak"
-King K. Rool and Dixie reveal

September "Leak"
-King K. Rool and Dixie reveal

 

[Koopaul]

Except he can, he didn't in Pikmin 3, but, he'd surely be able to pilot it if Hococate Freight were to rent it out to him.


Isn't Shadow Mario activated by use of a special mask with Mario's nose and mustache drawn on it, rather than being an ability inherent to Bowser Jr.? Bowser Jr. might let them borrow the mask and paintbrush if they had a good reason for them.

Now, though, I do have to wonder if, canonically, Dark Pit actually would be able to handle the Three Sacred Treasures? I mean, even if the Treasures were designed such that only Pit could use them, he should be able to use them anyway, as a clone of Pit, unless they have some kind of built in test of one's intentions or something that he would fail.

But... the Three Sacred Treasures shouldn't exist in Smash 4 anyway since they were destroyed in Uprising and Smash 4 canonically(?) takes place after Uprising, so... it is really inconsistent, then.

Trying to find canonical consistencies in Smash is impossible. Even the original had Ness performing Paula's psychic abilities.

Point is there's no reason why a character can or can't use certain powers.

 

[AlphaSSB]

So anyway, what series would you guys like to hear music from next?

I'm personally hoping for a new Pokemon, Xenoblade, or Fire Emblem remix myself.

Star Fox. Hopefully, since it seems everything Star Fox in Smash Ultimate is being designed off of Star Fox Zero, we'll get a few tracks from that game. Star Fox Zero had an absolutely phenomenal OST. Would be a crime if we didn't get any tracks from it.

Otherwise, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had a great OST, and the Gen VII Pokemon game had some great tracks as well.

I also really hope we'll hear tracks from Hyrule Warriors and Pokken Tournament, but I doubt it. Both of those games had phenomenal OSTs.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

 

[BeardyBennett]

So if there's a newcomer in August here's a list of characters I could see getting revealed:

Isaac- 17th Anniversary August 1st(JP)
Ashley- Warioware Gold release August 2nd(JP)
Lloyd Irving- Tales of Symphonia 15th Anniversary August 29th(JP)
Yuri Lowell- Tales of Vesperia 10th Anniversary August 7th(JP)

I'll add more if there's other August Anniversaries and releases I forgot about you can chip in with:

I don't expect Simon until September when Castlevania's Anniversary is.

Obligatory "anniversaries don't mean anything towards character reveals" comment

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So if there's a newcomer in August here's a list of characters I could see getting revealed:

Isaac- 17th Anniversary August 1st(JP)
Ashley- Warioware Gold release August 2nd(JP)
Lloyd Irving- Tales of Symphonia 15th Anniversary August 29th(JP)
Yuri Lowell- Tales of Vesperia 10th Anniversary August 7th(JP)

I'll add more if there's other August Anniversaries and releases I forgot about you can chip in with:

I don't expect Simon until September when Castlevania's Anniversary is.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Datamine spoiler ahead

Spoiler

Dataminers have found data for Elma as a playable Blade (starting as an enemy Blade, defeat to recruit) with the latest patch updates, and it’s possible Elma may fully be available in August or September. I’d expect a Smash reveal for her to be around the same time.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

The better question is "Did anyone not predict Inklings?" They had every possible thing in the world going for them. Popularity, relevency, moveset potential, interesting character designs, ect. I know they're the only characters I fealt confident about.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Something that just occurred to me in regards to 3rd party echo fighters. Before I begin, i'm not inherently against 3rd Party Echo Fighters. The only reason I'm talking about it is because I think their likelihood is way overblown. I'll explain why.

First, what's the way by which echo fighters are added? Like clones before them, these fighters are typically added at the end of development when there's a bit of time left. These are basically the "cherry on top" of the roster, and typically satisfy the wants of fans whose characters wouldn't necessarily be added first in line. This is exactly how the clones of Melee were put into the game, as well as Smash 4.

Next, there's absolutely no indication that Daisy was added in a different way than Lucina or Dark Pit were in Smash Wii U. As she is branded the same way that they are, there's frankly no reason to believe she was planned as anything other than a last minute "cherry on top". Was she a focus of the Direct? Yes. But that reveal served more of a purpose than just the character herself.

In addition, 3rd party contracts are typically put into effect at the beginning of development and based on that agreement basically guarantees the addition and development of the character. If Echo fighters are last minute additions that can be dragged and dropped with minimal changes, then that would mean the contract for the Echo fighter to be created would have to be determined at the end of development, which usually coincides with balancing.

While I will not try to say I know how these businesses work together, I will say that there are several things in the business world that take more than a day...even the simplest things. I don't think it's impossible for a 3rd party like Shadow or Ken to be added as an Echo Fighter, but I sincerely do not think they're likely in the slightest.

Youtubers and users on all sorts of different websites are now all of a sudden predicting characters like Shadow, and there's honestly no logical reason to believe as of right now that they're any more likely than before. Clones/Echo Fighters have always been added as last minute additions, and they're basically the leftovers.

Could Shadow be planned in terms of a pool for Echo Fighters at the end? Sure. But then that would add uncertainty to a potential contract with SEGA, as the timing would have to be just right. If you're going in on a contract, you want to for sure commit to it rather than, "Oh yeah, we've got enough time to add this character that doesn't belong to us". That's not how it would work. SEGA would absolutely want their character in the game if they were signing off on allowing them to be there.

Basically, chances of echo fighters assumes any and all potential characters weren't planned for something else first or that any legal considerations were in place prior to their planned inclusion. This gets complicated with involving other companies in the process of making characters that are based on meeting popular requests while also being easy to obtain and make.

 

[IsmaR]

So, whats the dumbest thing that happened when you played a game.
On Minecraft, I got kicked from a server for Wearing a Wario Skin.
What's wrong with that? xD

I don't mean anything personally/don't like using this as the example post, but I'll make it clear so no one else misses the point.

This is not a social thread.

There are other threads/sections/etc. to post about other things not pertaining to Smash. This is a general discussion, which as the title implies, is meant to revolve around general discussion of the topic at hand. This thread sees a ton of activity/is heavily moderated, and doesn't need to add off topic/not relevant sub-discussions on top of all the usual debates/wishlists/"games" we cycle through.

So long as you follow the basic rules on the first post, it should be simple.

 

[SonicMario]

There’s also been a notable shift towards the middle range of that poll. Before E3 it was just the larger numbers having more votes, but some people (myself included) went backed and changed their votes after Sakurai’s comment about less newcomers. It’s just that a good amount of people who voted haven’t bothered.

Of course there's a chance DLC will push the newcomer total to at least 13 and some people who picked that would go "Told you so!" (I think 5 is the current expectation of newcomers (Including 1 or 2 echoes BTW) left aside from the already confirmed Inkling, Ridley, and Daisy) and if Smash Ultimate at least has the same number of DLC characters that Smash 4 got, who will all be newcomers since all the veterans are back. That's another 7 (Granted only 4 of those 7 were actual newcomers. Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy sales numbers probably added to Sakurai's decision to bring literally everybody back) 8 + 7 = 15 )

So if you put DLC into account it's not entirely too unreasonable to pick 13+ still. But certainly not what most who picked that option would imagine it to go back when they voted that.

 

[Enchess]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

Did anyone not predict Inklings?

I felt Ridley was among most likely. Sure, Sakurai made those comments about them, but he also said Villager couldn't work before suddenly Villager did work. Game devs generally care about fan desires and they knew how much people wanted Ridley. As soon as they showed "Everyone is back" the remaining doubt was gone.

Daisy so far is the biggest surprise for me. Like, Zelda getting the design I've always wanted for her, Snake coming back, and even Pichu coming back all surprised me less. Idk what that says about me haha

 

[RandomAce]

Because people like to ignore information they are given in favor of believing what makes them feel good.

I'd guess 7 more for base game max, then DLC later on.

No, none of these exaggerated answers are it at all.

The poll was made before E3, and many people just didn’t change their votes afterwards.

And even if we’re getting DLC, a bet it will definitely surpass 13.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

I personally had Inkling immediately on my roster, and also had Ridley long before Vergeben, I've always been a Ridley supporter. Daisy, though, I never even considered as a possibility. She was quite a pleasant surprise I'd say.

 

[Mutsukki]

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Datamine spoiler ahead

Spoiler

Dataminers have found data for Elma as a playable Blade (starting as an enemy Blade, defeat to recruit) with the latest patch updates, and it’s possible Elma may fully be available in August or September. I’d expect a Smash reveal for her to be around the same time.

wait WHAT

I did not know that

ooooh that is hype

 

[vaanrose]

Next, there's absolutely no indication that Daisy was added in a different way than Lucina or Dark Pit were in Smash Wii U. As she is branded the same way that they are, there's frankly no reason to believe she was planned as anything other than a last minute "cherry on top". Was she a focus of the Direct? Yes. But that reveal served more of a purpose than just the character herself.

I'd bet dollars to donuts she was added in a different way than Lucina and Dark Pit, as those two were explicitly planned as alts and then upgraded into clones.

The circumstances for Daisy's inclusion are already different than Smash 4's clones, there's really nothing to suggest whether she was or wasn't on the initial project plan. Considering her e3 footage looks further along in development than a bunch of other characters, though, I'd bet she was.

 

[Enchess]

I'd bet dollars to donuts she was added in a different way than Lucina and Dark Pit, as those two were explicitly planned as alts and then upgraded into clones.

The circumstances for Daisy's inclusion are already different than Smash 4's clones, there's really nothing to suggest whether she was or wasn't on the initial project plan. Considering her e3 footage looks further along in development than a bunch of other characters, though, I'd bet she was.

If I had to guess on Daisy, she was planned early as a PR move to prevent any backlash against Lucina/Dark Pit. I imagine she's a special case and any other echoes will be similar to Lucina/Dark Pit situation.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Pretty sure we'll be getting a direct on the coming week or two maybe even the second or third of August. I have been saying we likely wouldn't see anything new till August anywho. Nintendo also usually tries to do Directs near the beginning or end of a month. I think it's kind of rare to see mid month Directs. So if they didn't do one for the end of July then I think the beginning of August is a safe bet.

 

[BluePikmin11]

In addition, 3rd party contracts are typically put into effect at the beginning of development and based on that agreement basically guarantees the addition and development of the character. If Echo fighters are last minute additions that can be dragged and dropped with minimal changes, then that would mean the contract for the Echo fighter to be created would have to be determined at the end of development, which usually coincides with balancing.

While I will not try to say I know how these businesses work together, I will say that there are several things in the business world that take more than a day...even the simplest things. I don't think it's impossible for a 3rd party like Shadow or Ken to be added as an Echo Fighter, but I sincerely do not think they're likely in the slightest.

Youtubers and users on all sorts of different websites are now all of a sudden predicting characters like Shadow, and there's honestly no logical reason to believe as of right now that they're any more likely than before. Clones/Echo Fighters have always been added as last minute additions, and they're basically the leftovers.

Could Shadow be planned in terms of a pool for Echo Fighters at the end? Sure. But then that would add uncertainty to a potential contract with SEGA, as the timing would have to be just right. If you're going in on a contract, you want to for sure commit to it rather than, "Oh yeah, we've got enough time to add this character that doesn't belong to us". That's not how it would work. SEGA would absolutely want their character in the game if they were signing off on allowing them to be there.

Basically, chances of echo fighters assumes any and all potential characters weren't planned for something else first or that any legal considerations were in place prior to their planned inclusion. This gets complicated with involving other companies in the process of making characters that are based on meeting popular requests while also being easy to obtain and make.

The point of which 3rd party echos could have been decided does not really matter. Sakurai could handle a situation with a hesitated SEGA, where a unique third party like Sonic could be added in Brawl last-minute in 2007, despite the cost of more balancing issues and possible character cuts. If Sakurai wanted Shadow in to answer a prayer request people have wanted so long late in development, he would do so. The drawbacks to license Shadow from SEGA last-minute for Smash would be far less difficult and costly than you think, only having to license the character, spending minimal man-hours to get some Echo animations that match Shadow's personality, with a wee bit of balancing to make it happen.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Paper Luigi

Was going to make Vivan...

Paper Mario characters are obnoxious for me to make though.

I mean he turned out 'okay' but in order for me to feel halfway, good about these guys the 'double' outline is a must.

Is it hard to do?

No, not at all

Is it obnoxious when you miss a part?

Yes...

But for not knowing IIlustratior all that well "started with Incenroar" not a bad collection of goobers so far.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The point of which 3rd party echos could have been decided does not really matter. Sakurai could handle a situation with a hesitated SEGA, where a unique third party like Sonic could be added in Brawl last-minute in 2007, despite the cost of more balancing issues and possible character cuts. If Sakurai wanted Shadow in to answer a prayer request people have wanted so long late in development, he would do so. The drawbacks to license Shadow from SEGA last-minute for Smash would be far less difficult and costly than you think, only having to license the character, spending minimal man-hours to get some Echo animations that match Shadow's personality, with a wee bit of balancing to make it happen.

In an age of DLC, I'm pretty sure Sakurai wouldn't delay the game for a single character like with Sonic ever again

 

[dezeray112]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

I sort of had a feeling considering the success of the Splatoon franchise, the Inklings were bound to be on the next Smash Bros (as well as my predictions list.)

Ridley was a long term fan favourite and was bound to get in to Smash Bros. Ultimate. For that, he too was on my list.

On the other hand, Daisy was someone I did not highly expect, but was surprised nonetheless.

 

[PeridotGX]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

Inkling: Obviously. I was even one of the first to suggest Octolings as a clone!

Ridley: No. I doubted Vergben, plus I didn't think this game would use the ballot much. Came as a shock.

Daisy: No. My OG clone predictions were Octoling, Galacta Knight, and Yarn Yoshi. Looking back, how did I forget her?

Veterans: I predicted No Cuts, Icies, and Wolf would come back (Which happened). I also somewhat considered Squirtle as a returning character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

In an age of DLC, I'm pretty sure Sakurai wouldn't delay the game for a single character like with Sonic ever again

The point of mentioning this is to prove that if Sakurai could handle a situation that big and last-minute, getting quick permission for Shadow as an echo from SEGA at any point in Ultimate's planning phase or development would be a cakewalk in comparison.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I don't mean anything personally/don't like using this as the example post, but I'll make it clear so no one else misses the point.

This is not a social thread.

There are other threads/sections/etc. to post about other things not pertaining to Smash. This is a general discussion, which as the title implies, is meant to revolve around general discussion of the topic at hand. This thread sees a ton of activity/is heavily moderated, and doesn't need to add off topic/not relevant sub-discussions on top of all the usual debates/wishlists/"games" we cycle through.

So long as you follow the basic rules on the first post, it should be simple.

Yeah, I know it's not, Sorry, got distracted.
(I'm not a brat i swear )

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

I don't usually do prediction rosters - I'm bad at predicting Sakurai, and I'm usually disappointed by the ones he puts in. Still...

I'd fully expected (along with basically everyone else on the planet) that Inklings were 100% confirmed for the next Smash. Ridley was definitely on my wishlist, but I had a hunch that any logical developer would have put him in by then. Still, based on Sakurai's comments, I didn't expect it to happen. After Vergeben, it did seem a little more plausible - plausible to the extent that I couldn't watch the direct because I didn't want to be disappointed.

Daisy, though, I didn't see coming. She was also on my wishlist, but I didn't really expect her to show up at all. The same could also be said for Squirtle and the other vets (particularly the transformations returning). Pichu and Young Link also came out of absolutely nowhere.

My 'predictions' now are fairly sedate, with K.Rool being the only one I'm excited about. Of course my wishlist would excite me to no end, but that's pretty short, and outside of K.Rool everyone has 1% chances or worse...

 

[IntelliHeath1]

Unpopular opinion: what if the octolings were in...as Koopaling-esque alts?

We know Ridley’s got his Meta coming, which may replace or even add to his current set of costumes. Could the octolings get in as Inkling alts? They’d fit well with black and/or red ink, which isn’t used yet despite red being the P1 standard color.

Just a thought. Not that I’ve got a huge stake either way, I just prefer to be conservative with echoes in the first place.

Same here. I don't really have any stake on the characters at the moment but I just found it weird that people are being dismissive toward to Octolings because they are "new thing" when clones are kinda make it easier for them to include characters if they felt like to.

I don't really care either way but Octolings having Inkling taunts and victory poses would be weird and awkward so either they will get in as an echo fighter or not for base roster.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I wonder how long DLC will last this time. Like, Smash For DLC, technically, lasted for around a year and a half with the announcement of Mewtwo in the 50-Fact Extravaganza. I wonder if Sakurai will want to give this game as long of a life as possible or if he'll stop after a certain amount of time.

I figure Nintendo is going keep supporting this game throughout the Switch's lifespan, even if Sakurai doesn't. They'd be refusing money if they did otherwise. I made a longer post about this but I can't seem to find it. Essentially, every major Nintendo release has had DLC in some form, and I imagine that they'll do the same for Smash Bros.

I think we'll see anywhere from 10 - 20 DLC fighters, and I'd be surprised if we see less than that.

 

[RandomAce]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

Inklings- you’d be a madman to say no to them.

Ridley- I actually did think Ridley was possible. Yes, everyone keeps throwing out that he was too big and Sakurai deconfirmed him. However, I always felt that due to Ridley’s huge popularity, Sakurai would’ve at least tried Ridley again, and E3 would’ve been the best time to show him.

This was before Verge came into play.

Daisy- Someone I didn’t expect. Though I did think if she did get in, she would be a clone, and look what happened. Though when I saw her, I didn’t know I really wanted to play her until now.

I’m going to be honest, but when Sakurai said he was going to introduce another echo fighter, I though it was going to be Alph, since Alph was also considered to be a clone as well and would’ve fit well along Dark Pit and Lucina (and even Doc). Alph is another echo I’m sorta hoping to get in and think is likely to get in.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The point of mentioning this is to prove that if Sakurai could handle a situation that big and last-minute, getting quick permission for Shadow as an echo from SEGA at any point in Ultimate's planning phase or development would be a cakewalk in comparison.

But at that point the base game would be finished, DLC needs a selling point, and while Shadow is popular, Sakurai doesn't seem to want to have clone characters as DLC judging from 4, where the only clone characters were veterans. Meaning at that point, Sakurai most likely would go "**** it, too late for the base game, I'll call SEGA and tell them we can instead make Shadow a fully fledged fighter as DLC, we've got the time and money for then"

 

[Roberk]

The better question is "Did anyone not predict Inklings?" They had every possible thing in the world going for them. Popularity, relevency, moveset potential, interesting character designs, ect. I know they're the only characters I fealt confident about.

Inklings were pretty much the only "shoo-in" character this time around. They had everything, if they didn't get in there'd be riots.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

Inkling I saw as the most obvious newcomer choice for a new game.

Ridley I actually believed would get in. Sakurai specifically had to address him, and had stated before that he was a very popular character. Ridley had been scaled down from Brawl to Smash 4, whereas the height differences between characters like Mario and Bowser seemed to grow. When I saw the height differences with the silhouettes in the Inkling reveal trailer, I was sold that it was his time. Turns out I was right.

Daisy I only saw getting in as an alt for Peach, or as a clone of her, despite her potential to be unique. I didn't exactly predict that she would be in the next Smash, but I was correct in that she's a clone of Peach.

 

[BeardyBennett]

Inklings were pretty much the only "shoo-in" character this time around. They had everything, if they didn't get in there'd be riots.

Yep, Inklings, and, before hearing about the project plan date, ARMS were my shoo-ins. Ridley I thought was likely. Daisy I had no idea.

 

[Pakky]

So did Veggie Bible even say what Isabelle would be able to do?

 

[Billybae10K]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

I had the Inklings down from Day 1. They were the biggest new IP at the time and were iconic thanks to their great game and the kid/squid meme. If they didn't get in, I imagine there'd have been riots.

Can't say I saw Daisy coming at all. I just assumed Peach would keep that horrific Daisy alt colour scheme. It never looked right on her to me. Ridley was weird because I wanted him and had him as someone to potentially expect, so throughout the E3 Direct I was watching for Pyrosphere to show up and prove me wrong.

When I realized that it hadn't shown up while they were showing off stages, that was really was clued me in that something was up. Given the two other stages with bosses from Wii U got brought back.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

tbf evidence suggests he was planned to use Rock Pikmin and be a separate character

Correction; there's evidence he was going to be a clone too, as Sakurai thought it over.

There's also evidence to suggest Rock Pikmin were going to be used.

These weren't necessarily the same thing. The thoughts were separated. So it doesn't mean he would've been a clone with Rock Pikmin, but it could have happened.

Also, I think people are confusing "can't" with "won't" here too. Dark Pit would not want to use the Three Sacred Treasures. He probably can due to being a literal clone of Dark Pit, but would refuse to. Palutena isn't the one he "fights for", so wouldn't want to. That makes sense.

Bowser Jr.'s unique case is it's just a mask. The Koopalings can use the mask and they would be fine with doing that because it means beating the enemy. In this case, there's no reason for them to say no to it. Can Alph pilot Olimar's ship? Sure. Would he? Who knows. He doesn't have a personality or instance within the series where he would say yes or no. Thus, it's hardly a factor to work with. It probably isn't even relevant at this point.