Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MasterOfKnees]

So did Veggie Bible even say what Isabelle would be able to do?

No, he just said that she was in, for all we know she might even be an echo. Characters that leak this far from release are usually high priority ones though, which would suggest she's unique (which is the most likely outcome either way imo).

 

[staindgrey]

If I had to guess on Daisy, she was planned early as a PR move to prevent any backlash against Lucina/Dark Pit. I imagine she's a special case and any other echoes will be similar to Lucina/Dark Pit situation.

I seriously doubt Sakurai and his team who decided on the roster at the start of development decided to throw in a minor Mario character as a PR move for a trailer three years later.

More likely, they used the poll as a means of seeing who players wanted most, and in looking at so many possibilities, tried to find a way to include as many as possible without over extending themselves. Thus the idea of "echo fighters" was coined to justify some inclusions that are for the character's sake, rather than for the idea of "this would make a great unique moveset". Daisy was chosen to be revealed first, for whatever reason, but I would honestly bet money that Daisy isn't the only echo fighter that was planned, or they wouldn't have made such a big deal out of the new "echo fighter" term.

 

[Pyra]

I feel slighted about Isabelle possibly getting in while Tom Nook is confirmed not playable.

Why do people have a problem with me weighing the other players down with loans and debt so that way they can't recover

 

[Pakky]

No, he just said that she was in, for all we know she might even be an echo. Characters that leak this far from release are usually high priority ones though, which would suggest she's unique (which is the most likely outcome either way imo).

Which is fine with me, personally I'm just puzzled as to what she would be able to do?

Does Happy Home Desinger lend itself to a moveset?

 

[Deleted member]

I feel slighted about Isabelle possibly getting in while Tom Nook is confirmed not playable.

Why do people have a problem with me weighing the other players down with loans and debt so that way they can't recover

I dunno, I thought people wanted more villains.

Yes, I know Nook isn't really a villain

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I feel slighted about Isabelle possibly getting in while Tom Nook is confirmed not playable.

Why do people have a problem with me weighing the other players down with loans and debt so that way they can't recover

Tom Nook would be too violent, he'd have realistic tommy guns and would have a special move that breaks the opponent's kneecaps in a realistic fashion. My cats go to the same litter box as Sakurai's which is how I know

 

[Deleted member]

Tom Nook would be too violent, he'd have realistic tommy guns and would have a special move that breaks the opponent's kneecaps in a realistic fashion. My cats go to the same litter box as Sakurai's which is how I know

I think Tommy guns would be okay. It's the Timmy guns that make Nook too violent.

 

[domriver]

waiting for Nintendo to announce something pertaining to Smash.



Nintendo announces a direct....

 

[Pyra]

Brand new post from the Smash Bros DOJO!!
Important life tips from the man himself.

 

[TsunamiSnivles]

Time to start a convo.

What's your guys' thoughts on Story Mode happening? Guaranteed, Likely, Not Very Likely, Definitely Not Happening?

Me personally, I think it's likely this time around.

perhaps

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

In an age of DLC, I'm pretty sure Sakurai wouldn't delay the game for a single character like with Sonic ever again

That could explain one of the reasons why Mewtwo wasn't in the base game for Smash 4. After all, he was shown a month after the 3DS was released in Japan and a month before the Wii U came out.

 

[Zinith]

So anyway, what series would you guys like to hear music from next?

I'm personally hoping for a new Pokemon, Xenoblade, or Fire Emblem remix myself.

XENOBLADE & YOSHI!!! Those two need more music. I keep harping on about this song in particular:

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

I know I predicted Inklings even before the first reveal of Smash Switch. I added Ridley in my predictions the very moment Vergeben’s rumor was posted, before it gained credibility. As for Daisy, I did not put her as a possible clone, so she came off as a delightful surprise. In retrospect she made sense to add purely by fan popularity, even if her significance to the Mario mainline games is minimal.

Definitely had Inkling. As everyone has said, they were the most obvious newcomer.

I also had Ridley. I knew the fan demand was just to big to ignore this time around. Sakurai was interviewed about not including Ridley after both Brawl and Smash 4 so I knew he would have to cave in and figure out how to implement Ridley eventually.

Daisy on the other hand, was nowhere near my radar. I thought the prospect of her getting in was a joke. Boy was I wrong.

The only two I had that have been deconfirmed are Waluigi and Bomberman.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Which is fine with me, personally I'm just puzzled as to what she would be able to do?

Does Happy Home Desinger lend itself to a moveset?

Maybe her moveset could be more accidental moves? Like she throws gifts/items that do damage. Keeping in line with her more helpful personality. Borrowing a bit from her AT.

I dunno, I thought people wanted more villains.

Yes, I know Nook isn't really a villain

Tom Nook is really the most realistic villain Nintendo has ever created.

 

[Deleted member]

I think we need more unfitting music. Bring back Calling to the Night and Lost in Thoughts All Alone, and add Beyond the Sky.

 

[Pyra]

Out of curiousity, how many of you had Ridley, Daisy, and/or Inklings in your prediction rosters prior to their reveal?

Does saying "hey guys the next thing they're gonna show is Ridley" while Sakurai was still talking at the end of the E3 direct count

My friends, understandably, went from "lol that's stupid shut up" to hating me

 

[KMDP]

Like she throws gifts/items that do damage.

So... Delibird's "Present", then. XD

 

[dezeray112]

To everyone, which character would you like to see being revealed next?

Personally I would like Simon Belmont to be unveiled next just to end the Vergeben leak speculation.

 

[Deleted member]

So... Delibird's "Present", then. XD

Does that mean we could get Delibird as an echo of Isabelle? I've been wanting to play as Delibird since Melee.

To everyone, which character would you like to see being revealed next?

Homura Akemi or Star Butterfly

 

[Pyra]

To everyone, which character would you like to see being revealed next?

Personally I would like Simon Belmont to be unveiled next just to end the Vergeben leak speculation.

I'm just gonna say it.
Skull Kid.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

Inklings: No surprises here. They were pretty much guaranteed.

Ridley: I thought he was still possible, but not very likely. Especially what Sakurai said. However, he does change his mind sometimes. So it wasn't impossible to say at the least. However, the leaks made him a little more likely for me. Regardless, I'm very happy that he is in. More villians, and more Metroid reps.

Daisy: Definitely didn't expect to see her. Especially, with all the nonsense from memoryman. So it was a big surprise for me.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The point of which 3rd party echos could have been decided does not really matter. Sakurai could handle a situation with a hesitated SEGA, where a unique third party like Sonic could be added in Brawl last-minute in 2007, despite the cost of more balancing issues and possible character cuts. If Sakurai wanted Shadow in to answer a prayer request people have wanted so long late in development, he would do so. The drawbacks to license Shadow from SEGA last-minute for Smash would be far less difficult and costly than you think, only having to license the character, spending minimal man-hours to get some Echo animations that match Shadow's personality, with a wee bit of balancing to make it happen.

...Sonic was added and Brawl was delayed by several months...this is also Sonic we’re talking about, adding Shadow now isn’t the same as adding Sonic for Brawl.

You seem very sure that “Sakurai will do this and that”. I’d be cautious with that, my dude.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

To everyone, which character would you like to see being revealed next?

Personally I would like Simon Belmont to be unveiled next just to end the Vergeben leak speculation.

Bandanna Dee so I can be assured he's in the game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I feel slighted about Isabelle possibly getting in while Tom Nook is confirmed not playable.

Why do people have a problem with me weighing the other players down with loans and debt so that way they can't recover

I feel the same. Tom is the only Nintendo newcomer I felt had the most merit to get in Ultimate, but what happens happens. At the least, I will be content with Isabelle. The more cute girl fighters, the better.

But at that point the base game would be finished, DLC needs a selling point, and while Shadow is popular, Sakurai doesn't seem to want to have clone characters as DLC judging from 4, where the only clone characters were veterans. Meaning at that point, Sakurai most likely would go "**** it, too late for the base game, I'll call SEGA and tell them we can instead make Shadow a fully fledged fighter as DLC, we've got the time and money for then"

There is still room for Shadow to happen in the base game. Maybe we could see Shadow as DLC, but DLC is not something I want to discuss right now.

...Sonic was added and Brawl was delayed by several months...this is also Sonic we’re talking about, adding Shadow now isn’t the same as adding Sonic for Brawl.

You seem very sure that “Sakurai will do this and that”. I’d be cautious with that, my dude.

I said this to Gwen, but the point of mentioning this is to prove that if Sakurai could handle a situation that big and last-minute, getting quick permission for Shadow as an echo from SEGA at any point in Ultimate's planning phase or development would be a cakewalk effort in comparison. Shadow, in terms of echo viability, has the most notable merits due to his similar body proportions to Sonic and his likely massive ballot support. I have my own detailed reasons to have confidence on the character, despite a 3rd party echo not ever happening before. I initially was very cautious/skeptical at first, until I was open and looked deeper into the matter.

 

[Zinith]

To everyone, which character would you like to see being revealed next?

Personally I would like Simon Belmont to be unveiled next just to end the Vergeben leak speculation.

I'd prefer the big hitters to be the last ones revealed.

So my guess would be Elma

 

[KMDP]

To everyone, which character would you like to see being revealed next?

Personally I would like Simon Belmont to be unveiled next just to end the Vergeben leak speculation.

Isaac, plain and simple.

That or Shadow to stop the endless Echo debates.

 

[Impa4Smash]

So... Delibird's "Present", then. XD

That could work actually lol

To everyone, which character would you like to see being revealed next?

Personally I would like Simon Belmont to be unveiled next just to end the Vergeben leak speculation.

I don't think the speculation will ever end. Now we need Simon Belmont AND Isabelle confirmed or deconfirmed to prove Vergeben right or wrong. And even then, Simon and Isabelle could just be lucky guesses. Who knows. 6-7 more newcomers, with 2 being Simon and Isabelle, is possible, so I guess time will tell if he's legit.

But personally I'd like K Rool or Impa revealed for reasons

 

[Noipoi]

To everyone, which character would you like to see being revealed next?

Personally I would like Simon Belmont to be unveiled next just to end the Vergeben leak speculation.

ASHLEY!
Not just because I want her, but also because it could tie into Warioware Gold's release which is happening soon in some places.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

I feel the same. Tom is the only Nintendo newcomer I felt had the most merit to get in Ultimate, but what happens happens. At the least, I will be content with Isabelle. The more cute girl fighters, the better.

Hence your profile picture.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

To everyone, which character would you like to see being revealed next?

Personally I would like Simon Belmont to be unveiled next just to end the Vergeben leak speculation.

Elma so I can rest easy that she’s in.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Zinith

In Wario Ware Gold, Wario can draw your amiibo. If you scan Yoshi, he draws this. You gotta make this your Profile Pic xD

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'd bet dollars to donuts she was added in a different way than Lucina and Dark Pit, as those two were explicitly planned as alts and then upgraded into clones.

The circumstances for Daisy's inclusion are already different than Smash 4's clones, there's really nothing to suggest whether she was or wasn't on the initial project plan. Considering her e3 footage looks further along in development than a bunch of other characters, though, I'd bet she was.

Fair points. What are your thoughts on 3rd party echo fighters then? If what you say is true, then that may bode well for 3rd party echoes, but i’m still of the belief they aren’t as likely as some believe they are.

 

[SquashiniKun]

View attachment 154948 waiting for Nintendo to announce something pertaining to Smash.



Nintendo announces a direct....

Same here, i expect a direct sometime in Early-Mid August.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Moveset time! Was going to do Phoenix Wright but someone already posted a Moveset of him today. So instead, we get another one of my most wanted third-parties: Crash Bandicoot!

Spoiler

Crash Moveset

Making a shocking appearance from Activision's world renowned Crash Bandicoot, Crash has arrived to Smash, allowing the battle between the console titans of the 90s to finally come to fruition. Crash's play style is centered around lots of crazy, zany movement to match his bonkers personality. Crash also uses his special 'super powers' and the various iconic crates from his games, allowing him to have a fast-paced style to match the quick nature of his series.

Crash's run speed is overall very quick, being slightly slower than Mario's. However, his jump height is pretty low, having a jump only slightly better than Ganondorf's. Crash's weight is right around the middle, leaning slightly more toward the heavy side. Also, like in his home games, Crash has the ability to crawl along the ground to avoid some attacks.

Specials:

Neutral Special: Death Tornado Spin- Does Crash's signature spin move. A very quick attack that deals moderate damage to enemies, Crash can also repeatedly use the move in midair to help him recover.

Side Special: Crate Throw- One of his most unique moves, Crash throws one of five crates out on the battlefield, with each crate type having different effects;
-Wooden Crate- Deals minimal damage to opponents, but can be broken to yield possible Wumpa Fruit, allowing Crash to heal, or even other items. The most common crate type to appear.
-Cage Crate- This crate is essentially a wooden crate that requires far more hits to break. If broken, there will be a guaranteed 3 Wumpa Fruit. However, the crate will automatically disappear after 10 seconds. Second most common crate to spawn.
-TNT Crate- A much more dangerous crate overall, the crate does the least amount of damage after being thrown. Instead, once it lands, it will begin a countdown beginning at 3 seconds. After the timer, the crate will immediately explode, causing major damage. Be careful, though, as this is the only crate that can damage Crash himself. Third most common crate type.
-Iron Crate- After being thrown, the crate will very quickly fall to the ground. If opponents touch any part of the crate, they will be meteor smashed, making it a great crate to throw off of the stage. If the crate does land on solid ground, though, it can't be broken, and will, instead disappear after 10 seconds. Fourth most common crate variation.
-Nitro Crate- The final crate type is also the strongest. Once thrown, the crate will instantly explode once it hits anything, having a blast even more deadly than the TNT Crate. To balance its raw power, however, this crate is by far the rarest to appear from the attack.

Up Special: Bounce Crate- Once used, this move will spawn a wooden bounce crate beneath Crash that allows him to recover. Unlike other bouncing recoveries in the game, the crate will permanently stay where Crash uses it unless an opponent breaks it or Crash uses the move again in a different location. This also means that Crash can bounce off of the crate as many times as you want, so long as it is present.

Down Special: Fruit Bazooka- This move allows Crash to take his bazooka and aim towards his opponents. The bazooka can be aimed in any direction, and has a reticle to show where the shot will end up. Once you're aimed where you want, press the button again to shoot out a lightning fast Wumpa Fruit at your opponents, dealing some pretty good damage.


Normals:

Jab: A basic one-two punch followed up by Crash bashing against the opponent with his rear.

F-Tilt: Crash kicks forward and up, dealing slight damage.

U-Tilt: Crash does a headbutt to hit the opponent.

D-Tilt: Crash does a split on the ground and kicks his fit out on either side, all the while having a pained expression on his face.

Dash Attack: Crash's slide Attack from his games. Just like in the games, the attack can be cancelled with a jump to allow him to have a far better jump height.

Smashes:

F-Smash: Has Crash reel back to punch the opponent, only to trip and have various colored gems and crystals fall out of his pockets and toward the foe, hurting them.

U-Smash: Crash summons Aku-Aku, who flies straight up in the air in a spiral formation.

D-Smash: Aku-Aku appears and spins in circles around Crash, dealing damage.

Aerials:

N-Air: Crash spread out his arms and legs in a joyous pose to surprise attack the opponent.

F-Air: Crash claps his hands together and swings his arms down in a slashing manner.

B-Air: Crash kicks his leg backwards sharply, is very strong at sweet spot.

U-Air: Similar to Mario's U-Air, Crash flips in midair while kicking upward.

D-Air: The iconic Super Belly Flop move from Crash 3. Crash belly flops all the way down to the ground, having some significant power as well as a meteor effect. However, the move can't be cancelled once activated unless hit, which means an imminent death if the attack is used too far off stage.

Grab/Pummel: Grab is simply just Crash lunging forward slightly and grabbing opponent with hands. Pummel involves Crash repeatedly kicking opponent with foot until he lets go.

Throws: Forward throw has Crash give a hearty kick to send enemy away. Back throw consists of Crash throwing foe behind him and then knocking them back with his head. Up throw sees Crash holding opponent in both arms before slinging them upward with all his might. Down throw has Crash throw opponent on ground before stomping around on them to send them flying.

Final Smash: Nitro Rampage- Opposition is sent through a portal to a vortex where countless enemies and villains from the Crash series hit them with a barrage of attacks.

Taunts: Up Taunt causes Crash to pull gem out of his mouth, examine it, and then swallow it again. Side Taunt makes Crash do the gem collection dance from Crash 2.
Down Taunt has Crash do the 'Perfect' dance from the original Crash game. Both dance taunts can be cancelled due to their length as well.

Alts: All of Crash's alts are basic color swaps based off of other Crash characters/bosses, such as a yellow for Cortex, grey for Koala Kong, etc.

Stage: The Time Twister- A traveling stage that periodically warps players between various locations from the first three Crash games. Some of these locations include Cortex's blimp, The Lost City, an ice location, Area 51, and several others.

Boxing Ring title: "Crash 'The Brash' Bandicoot"

Again, let me know what you think!

Tomorrow's hint: Watch for what goes bump in the night...

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Ive been way out of the loop for the last month(Picking up a lot of jobs recently and the computers been in repair for a while now, so I havent stoped and bothered to visit for long recently). Has much changed? Any new rumors floating around? I see Isabelle is being talked about a lot more now, something happen with her?

Oh, and id like K. Rool to be revealed next. Hes been my most wanted for so many years now, Id like to finally get him in the battle and shift focus to other great characters

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I feel the same. Tom is the only Nintendo newcomer I felt had the most merit to get in Ultimate, but what happens happens. At the least, I will be content with Isabelle. The more cute girl fighters, the better.



There is still room for Shadow to happen in the base game. Maybe we could see Shadow as DLC, but DLC is not something I want to discuss right now.

Possibly yes, but we don't know what else they're doing with game modes and stuff either

 

[vaanrose]

If we're talking pre-Vergeben roster predictions, I made this mockup just after Inklings were announced. Thought it'd be cool to kind of incorporate that dark fire look from the trailer.

I had all Smash 4 vets (no cuts), Inkling, Ridley, Ice Climbers, Wolf, Snake, and yes, Simon and Isabelle, too.

None of these characters are really that out there or hard to guess. They're all popular characters in a game that even before e3 I was confident would be based heavily on the ballot and fan requests. The only surprise character is Daisy.

Now, if Star Man is playable, then ya'll can call me the prophet.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I really hope that Hyrule Warriors gets some representation in Smash. Obviously, I'd personally love Impa with a moveset based off her appearance in the game, but even some music would be nice.

Maybe this can make it into a Zelda Stage?

 

[Billybae10K]

To everyone, which character would you like to see being revealed next?

Personally I would like Simon Belmont to be unveiled next just to end the Vergeben leak speculation.

Isaac, so that I can put my mind at ease for the rest of the speculation period. He's the only person I'm actively like praying for. If he got revealed, I'd be able to relax and watch the rest of the reveals without getting my heart in my throat from anticipation.

 

[Pyra]

If we're talking pre-Vergeben roster predictions, I made this mockup just after Inklings were announced. Thought it'd be cool to kind of incorporate that dark fire look from the trailer.



I had all Smash 4 vets (no cuts), Inkling, Ridley, Ice Climbers, Wolf, Snake, and yes, Simon and Isabelle, too.

None of these characters are really that out there or hard to guess. They're all popular characters in a game that even before e3 I was confident would be based heavily on the ballot and fan requests. The only surprise character is Daisy.

Now, if Star Man is playable, then ya'll can call me the prophet.

I'd be okay with this roster.

A game where Geno can fight Isabelle? Hell yeah