Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

I was saying they are up there with faces everyone will realize. Some of the few true all stars left that Nintendo have. Nothing more.

If they continue to be used, then yes, it might mean something. As they become an even more prominent feature of Pokemon's legacy.

But to pretend Jesse and James aren't more recognizable to casual Nintendo audiences than half the current roster and some of the major fan wants like K. Rool is kinda goofy.

If you've seen even just one episode of the anime you walk away remembering that version of Team Rocket. They are the face of that particular team for a lot of people when they hear the name Pokemon or Team Rocket.

That's all I meant by my comment.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Honestly, what you're shaped like isn't as big of a like/dislike factor for me as what they can actually do.
As it turns out, humans want humans to play as humans in their video games!

That's because you're entirely missing the point of Project X Zone.
It's not just a collab with Nintendo and Capcom, it was a collab with everything 1. COOL and 2. ANIME.
All the reps are people who are from flashy, semi-realistic, animated things regardless of their association across a dozen different companies.

As you can imagine, a tag between 2 plumbers isn't as flashy as, say someone like Dante and Vergil.

Fair. Also, Segata Sanshiro, don't forget.

Come to think of it, indies also generally stick with humans as protags, up to and including unfinished projects, for example:
Shovel Knight
Undertale
Starr Mazer
Pixel Noir
Battle Princess Madelyn
Heart Forth Alicia
Bloodstained

So really, they are a relatable template to use. Not everyone has to be like Zeboyd Games and go with more esoteric choices (and they eventually went with a more standard human heroine when they made CSH anyways).

 

[PeridotGX]

Haven't found Captain Syrup's board yet. I'm taking a break, as I've stated. But I can answer (most of) your other questions!
3rd Place - Dixie Kong (202 Supporters)
44th Place - Lanky Kong (25 Supporters)
45th Place - Funky Kong (24 Supporters)
52nd Place - Cranky Kong (21 Supporters)
73rd Place - Mona (15 Supporters)

I haven't seen Donkey Kong Jr., Kiddy Kong or Tiny Kong. (I'm not surprised for Kiddy Kong, tbh. XD)

How are Kirby characters on the ranking? There are a lot of moderately popular ones.

 

[DoctorSanity]

Here's a picture of SoV Kirbys that I found online.
I think the point here is that, as bad as Fates' story and other character's aspects can get, is still had some good stuff about it.
Conquest had good gameplay, even though most characters were pretty bad, there were some good ones, and the attack animations are smooth and cool.

Yeah, the incest thing is super weird, but I don't think that makes it the worst game ever made.

And even if it is the worst game ever, there's no need to be a condescending ******* about it. That's just rude.
Seriously.

I don't know how to not be rude to people who don't think incest glorifying is kind of a dealbreaker in a video game I guess

There's just, a difference between mechanically broken and morally broken, alright? And morally broken is ALWAYS going to outweigh the mechanics when the morales gets bad bad.

I think it's after years of dealing with video game companies's garbage that I know if you don't stomp your foot down and say "This is **** and you deserve to feel bad for making it" then you get twice as bad the next time they make a sequel. We all know what happened to Soul Calibur, right?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So it's been confirmed that the digital file size of Ultimate is 16 GiG. Around SSB4's file size. I think this kind of disconfirms an SSE type of Adventure Mode.

It does depend on how powerful the game's compression system is. But even then, I seriously doubt that we'd get another Subspace Emissary.

 

[Zinith]

It makes me sad that non-human protags are being phased out...

 

[Troykv]

Well, you learn something new every day.
I've edited it so now it's more accurate.

Though I have to say, is outprioritization that much of a difference than replacement?

In a theorical idealistic approach; is different; but in the case the outpriorization ends up affecting someone; well... is similar; but not for the same reasons.

 

[ZephyrZ]

The better the game is the more painful the fact that it loves propping up incest on it, a movie could be the most cinematic masterpiece the world has ever seen and it would still be drop dead garbage if it romanticized domestic abuse, in fact it would be even WORSE because they put so much effort behind it!

Okay, the incest is really stupid and really conflicts with the themes Fate's tried to present about family, but at least the characters aren't actually related (even if that's a super BS reason to "justify it"). I'm not going to really defend this part since Fates is a game I have really mixed feelings on and "pseudo-incest" is one of the things I hate the most.

You can make a game the most videogamey videogame in history but it won't stop me from remembering how the main male character slips a potion into a lesbian's drink that has her fall in love with him in the japanese version.

That's not how that went down at all. There's this huge misunderstanding about what actually happened. What was really going on was that Soleil had trouble keeping herself from feinting around cute girls, so Corrin thought that if he could make himself like like one to her, he could help her get used to being around them without feinting like that. Some people on tumblr misinterpreted it as "gay conversion therapy" and threw a fit. It was a really stupid plot-line and Soleil's character is still handled very poorly, but it's not the evil thing people make it out to be.

Is it a crime to criticize the Video part of a Video game?

No, it's not wrong to at all. There's a lot to criticize about it. There's a lot of things I really hate about it. But part of a critique is acknowledging the good parts and the bad parts fairly, and I just don't think you're being totally fair to its strengths.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm not trying to be a downer, really. I just think its silly to act like this means something for Smash.

This kind of negative thinking is why people give up on supporting Meowth.

 

[N3ON]

Ehhhhh, they weren't specifically stated as Jesse and James if I remember correctly though. So it might as well have not been them. This seems like a chance to correct that.

Maybe to you. Probably not to the guy who considers that wire-frame dude Little Mac when no one else did. Especially since they look to have the exact same role as Yellow. So if they weren't "Jessie and James" then, they retroactively are now.

And btw, where does it call them Jessie and James here?

 

[KMDP]

How are Kirby characters on the ranking? There are a lot of moderately popular ones.

Kirby Characters?
Bandana Dee is 15th Place, with 61 Supporters (the reason he's so low is because Bandana Dee doesn't have a Support List, I had to go off the likes on the first post, which isn't exactly accurate).
Marx is 18th Place, with 49 Supporters.
Dark Matter is 31st Place, with 32 Supporters.
Gooey is 61st Place, with 18 Supporters.
Susie Haltmann (I think she's a Kirby Character?) is in Joint 93rd Place, with 12 Supporters
Rick the Hamster is in Joint 136th Place, with 7 Supporters,
Daroach is in Joint 153rd Place, with 5 Supporters.
Adeleine is a Mystery, since she doesn't have a Support List.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I read it somewhere, but now they could've easily just been guessing they'll be Jesse and James here.

So in truth it's a wait and see situation I suppose.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This kind of negative thinking is why people give up on supporting Meowth.

Meowth is already a Poke Ball Pokemon, so there's really no point continuing the Meowth discussion anyway.

 

[Idon]

Can someone tell me if that rule if Sakurai said "It has to originate from a game" or is that some sort of rumor?

Because if so, aren't Jessie and James already discounted from making any sort of appearance in Smash due to being predominantly just anime originated and associated?

 

[Arcadenik]

And btw, where does it call them Jessie and James here?

As far as I can tell, they were just Team Rocket. No names.

But has that really stopped Red and Leaf from getting in Smash? They aren't named Red or Leaf in Smash but we know it's them.

Oh! I can just imagine how good Jessie and James would look in HD even if they are just called Team Rocket in Smash.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Can someone tell me if that rule if Sakurai said "It has to originate from a game" or is that some sort of rumor?

Because if so, aren't Jessie and James already discounted from making any sort of appearance in Smash due to being predominantly just anime originated and associated?

At some point though you have to cut that line when it comes to origins of appearing first outside material and crossing over from your origins into the main source material.

Otherwise we wouldn't have characters like Harley Quinn, X-23, etc.

I mean at this point there's a whole generation of individuals who don't even consider Batman: The Animated Series when they hear the words ''Harley Quinn."

That could (even if it's not likely) happen for characters like Jesse/James as well. There's just not many if any gaming scenarios similar to it.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Can someone tell me if that rule if Sakurai said "It has to originate from a game" or is that some sort of rumor?

Because if so, aren't Jessie and James already discounted from making any sort of appearance in Smash due to being predominantly just anime originated and associated?

Regardless of whether or not a hard rule exists, the Pokemon anime seems to be an exception anyway, due to multiple references (the Misty trophy in Melee, the Meowth trophy in Melee as it’s from a tech demo featuring Team Rocket’s Meowth, the “Rocket KO” bonus in Melee, and Pokemon Trainer’s trophy description in both versions of Smash 4, which directly mentions Ash and parodies the anime’s original theme song.)

 

[Will]

It makes me sad that non-human protags are being phased out...

What? What is this blasphemy you speak of?

DK's series is fine.
Star Fox didn't sell so well but whatever it still got a game.
Yoshi's series is also fine.
Kirby sells like hotcakes.
Shulk is technically a Homs and not a human. Xenoblade's also selling well.
Pikmin usually has good reception whenever it comes out once in a blue moon.
Splatoon also sells like hotcakes.
Yooka Laylee was an indie success.

All of these are non-human. The only non-human franchises I can recall being super dead is Chibi-Robo and the anthro part of Rare's library (sans Battletoads). You're spitting some cold fire, my dude.

 

[Idon]

Imagine if Jessie and James made it in as assist trophies and were the first trophies able to be Star KOed.

 

[PeridotGX]

Kirby Characters?
Bandana Dee is 15th Place, with 61 Supporters (the reason he's so low is because Bandana Dee doesn't have a Support List, I had to go off the likes on the first post, which isn't exactly accurate).
Marx is 18th Place, with 49 Supporters.
Dark Matter is 31st Place, with 32 Supporters.
Gooey is 61st Place, with 18 Supporters.
Susie Haltmann (I think she's a Kirby Character?) is in Joint 93rd Place, with 12 Supporters
Rick the Hamster is in Joint 136th Place, with 7 Supporters,
Daroach is in Joint 153rd Place, with 5 Supporters.
Adeleine is a Mystery, since she doesn't have a Support List.

Thanks! I didn't expect such a small gap between Dee and Marx (And also yes Susie is Kirby).

Also, is the on Arcade Rabbit Thread (the-arcade-shuts-down-arcade-rabbit-for-super-smash-bros-ultimate-thread) on the list, and if so what is it ranked? It's small and the Character was disconfirmed, so it's OK if you don't have it.

 

[DoctorSanity]

That's not how that went down at all. There's this huge misunderstanding about what actually happened. What was really going on was that Soleil had trouble keeping herself from feinting around cute girls, so Corrin thought that if he could make himself like like one to her, he could help her get used to being around them without feinting like that. Some people on tumblr misinterpreted it as "gay conversion therapy" and threw a fit. It was a really stupid plot-line and Soleil's character is still handled very poorly, but it's not the evil thing people make it out to be.

Oh no that wasn't a misunderstanding at all, I knew this is exactly how it went down. I just know that it's literally one step away from it because the endgoal is the exact same with a clearly gay girl going for a guy, and enough people that went through stuff like that clarifying that it's impossible to seperate the scene from that context because of how poorly it's handled. Not intentional but actually it's so poorly handled that it crosses over into evil territory. Making an obvious lesbian go only for male characters when you only have one gay girl already is evil (I did my research she can't romance other girls only guys)

Trust me when I say that -4 really is the fairest score I can possibly give Fates, because all that good is only painful for how it's wasted on these types of things. Wasted potential is the worst thing in video games to me, which is why I have to criticize a game that wastes so much so harshly

Edit: now if you'll excuse me I think I'll go curl into the corner because I think my heart is starting to fail

 

[Will]

Regardless of whether or not a hard rule exists, the Pokemon anime seems to be an exception anyway, due to multiple references (the Misty trophy in Melee, the Meowth trophy in Melee as it’s from a tech demo featuring Team Rocket’s Meowth, the “Rocket KO” bonus in Melee, and Pokemon Trainer’s trophy description in both versions of Smash 4, which directly mentions Ash and parodies the anime’s original theme song.)

You forgot to metion that 's boxer name was "Wants to be the Very Best".

Imagine if Jessie and James made it in as assist trophies and were the first trophies able to be Star KOed.

Spoiler

 

[KMDP]

Thanks! I didn't expect such a small gap between Dee and Marx (And also yes Susie is Kirby).

Also, is the on Arcade Rabbit Thread (the-arcade-shuts-down-arcade-rabbit-for-super-smash-bros-ultimate-thread) on the list, and if so what is it ranked? It's small and the Character was disconfirmed, so it's OK if you don't have it.

Arcade Bunny is in the same spot as Susie. I'm still counting Disconfirmed Characters.

 

[Idon]

You forgot to metion that 's boxer name was "Wants to be the Very Best".

Spoiler

View attachment 152840

Oh don't you dare use that meme.
That meme is strictly off limits.

 

[Arcadenik]

Meowth is already a Poke Ball Pokemon, so there's really no point continuing the Meowth discussion anyway.

See what I mean?

Snake was cut from SSB4 but people continued discussing Snake until he came back in Ultimate.

Ridley was disconfirmed in SSB4 but people continued discussing Ridley until he finally got in Ultimate.

Waluigi was disconfirmed in Ultimate but people continued discussing Waluigi and they will continue discussing him until he finally gets in Smash.

But the moment Meowth is disconfirmed, then we stop discussing Meowth? Are you kidding me?

This is why Nintendo and Sakurai get this false impression that Meowth doesn't have popular demand.

 

[KMDP]

Oh no that wasn't a misunderstanding at all, I knew this is exactly how it went down. I just know that it's literally one step away from it because the endgoal is the exact same with a clearly gay girl going for a guy, and enough people that went through stuff like that clarifying that it's impossible to seperate the scene from that context because of how poorly it's handled. Not intentional but actually it's so poorly handled that it crosses over into evil territory. Making an obvious lesbian go only for male characters when you only have one gay girl already is evil (I did my research she can't romance other girls only guys)

Trust me when I say that -4 really is the fairest score I can possibly give Fates, because all that good is only painful for how it's wasted on these types of things. Wasted potential is the worst thing in video games to me, which is why I have to criticize a game that wastes so much so harshly

Edit: now if you'll excuse me I think I'll go curl into the corner because I think my heart is starting to fail

Actually, that "clearly gay girl" is Bisexual, not gay.

I have a strong suspicion that you haven't actually played any of Fire Emblem: Fates, and are just going off what other people said on places like Tumblr.

 

[Will]

Oh don't you dare use that meme.
That meme is strictly off limits.

You can't stop soyjak.

 

[NintenRob]

Team Rocket are in Pokémon Let's Go! I am hyped!

View attachment 152835

Meowth for Smash!

This is honestly the best news I've heard about Let's Go. Everything else has been somewhat disappointing. I hope they get a lot of love and attention, and their motto!!! I've always said, if we get an anime character, it should be these two.....

say it with me
PREPARE FOR TROUBLE

 

[Arcadenik]

Because if so, aren't Jessie and James already discounted from making any sort of appearance in Smash due to being predominantly just anime originated and associated?

I think that only applies to anime characters that Nintendo doesn't own the rights to... like Goku or Sailor Moon or Naruto.

I am sure Nintendo and Pokémon Company didn't need permission to put Jessie and James in Pokémon Let's Go.

 

[CannonStreak]

This is honestly the best news I've heard about Let's Go. Everything else has been somewhat disappointing. I hope they get a lot of love and attention, and their motto!!! I've always said, if we get an anime character, it should be these two.....

say it with me
PREPARE FOR TROUBLE

AND MAKE IT DOUBLE

Hey, someone had to do it.

 

[NintenZ]

Has anyone heard about the blog update yet?

 

[Arcadenik]

AND MAKE IT DOUBLE

Hey, someone had to do it.

And I had to do it.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Has anyone heard about the blog update yet?

Nope. Looks like it's another late nighter like Donkey Kong.

 

[kylexv]

Has anyone heard about the blog update yet?

There's none yet.

EDIT: 'd

 

[Mutsukki]

Has anyone heard about the blog update yet?

No, but the Smash twitter retweeted a Nintendo post around the usual update time that's about how you can buy Smash digital for full price and still get the box mailed to you for collection lol.

So I'm guessing it'll be late today

 

[NintenZ]

Nope. Looks like it's another late nighter like Donkey Kong.

Oh well, looks like I may need to make some extra coffee.

 

[DoctorSanity]

Actually, that "clearly gay girl" is Bisexual, not gay.

I have a strong suspicion that you haven't actually played any of Fire Emblem: Fates, and are just going off what other people said on places like Tumblr.

Actually she's neither because she's a fictional character and not a real person, and writers shoving her into relationships with guys doesn't change the fact that she's mostly written to be nigh solely interested in women, and I'm not forking $100 over to go through every version and DLC to cherry pick

edit: anyway I'm tired of arguing and I'm just gonna start ignoring people on this

 

[KMDP]

edit: anyway I'm tired of arguing and I'm just gonna start ignoring people on this

Agreed, I don't wanna argue anyway. I'm much too tired.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

That's because you're entirely missing the point of Project X Zone.
It's not just a collab with Nintendo and Capcom, it was a collab with everything 1. COOL and 2. ANIME.
All the reps are people who are from flashy, semi-realistic, animated things regardless of their association across a dozen different companies.

There were only four companies represented though

Namco Bandai
Capcom
Sega
Nintendo

 

[Starbound]

To change tunes off of that conversation...

Who's ready for Octopath Traveler?