Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[FlintIke]

Spoiler: my thoughts on the leak

- Soren (I don't know about any changes but he willl be based on Robin)

I assume this is the Soren from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn? Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't exactly recall Soren yielding a sword (if Robin is his echo.)

Omg if this Leak is true I will be so happy!!!
Does this maybe mean we will get a Path of Radiance Remake or something like that...please?

And I don't know about the sword thing, Soren could only use daggers in Path of Radiance. Maybe they would adjust the size of the dagger?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The only pokemon in smash that has an exclusive Z move though is pikachu, and that one involves a trainer which smash pikachu doesn't have.

To be fair, so do Mega Evolutions and that didn't stop Mewtwo, Lucario and Charizard in 4.

 

[Blargg888]

This is something that seems odd to me - Why can series like Kid Icarus get as many characters as it has games, when it's not Nintendo's biggest franchise? Xeno's got a grand total of three games - at least under the Nintendo banner, while other series are lucky to get anything. Everyone points to DK, with 3 games in the DK arcade series, 5 in the Country branch, 3 DK land, and DK64, with numerous spinoffs and crossovers with Mario - and two characters and no assist trophies. Or consider Zelda with 19 main series games and a load of spinoffs, where most of their console games are GOTY winners, yet their character set is realistically only 3 unique movesets and 3 semi-clones.

Not that this should be a factor, but it is a little irksome at times to see this much disparity...

Reminder that Dark Pit wasn't originally going to be his own character, same goes for Lucina.

Kid Icarus wasn't originally going to have 3 characters, it was only going to have two.

 

[PeridotGX]

So, if we've got 10 more characters:

• K. Rool
• Ashley
• Geno
• Bandana Dee
• Elma
• Lloyd Irving
• Simon Belmont
• Echo: Chrom
• Echo: Dixie Kong
• Echo: Isabelle

1. Bandana Dee (Kirby). My most expected character, honestly. He's popular with both casuals and competitive people in both Japan and the West, probably leading to good ballot turnout. Plus, the most recent Kirby at the time of the roster's creation was Rainbow Curse, which had Bandana Dee playable but not Dedede and MK.

2. King K Rool (DK): He probably did well on the ballot, which will probably be significant for the roster.

3. Ashley (WarioWare): See K. Rool. Ashley is hugely popular in Japan, so that probably led to good ballot results. Her AT is absent, and she would be a dedicated magician, something we lack.

4. Gen 7 Pokémon: We've had a Pokémon every Game, no reason for that to change. I don't know which one, but probably Decidueye or Dusk Lycanroc.

5. Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X): X was releasing around when the Roster was being decided, and Sakurai would probably be interested in having her. She could have a unique movesets with the various weapons in X

6. Paper Mario: A bit of a Dark Horse choice, I think he's quite possible. When the roster was decided, Paper Jam had just released and Color Splash was on the way. Furthermore, I remember decent support for him on the ballot, and he has a lot of moveset potential. Lastly, the Paper Mario 3DS Stage is yet to be seen, potentially for a reveal?

7. Rayman. Ubisoft and Nintendo have had good relations for awhile. Also, there were those random Trophies in Smash 4.

8. Dark Samus (Samus echo): A lot of coincidences are lining up for it. The assist trophy is absent, as is Samus's DS alt. Ridley's victory music is just a dark version of the regular Metroid theme. Why not go for something Ridley specific unless another Metroid Antagonist is on the way?

9. Octoling (Inkling Echo): The Octolings are getting a huge push with the Octo Expansion, why not pull a Roy and add them to promote it?

10. Ninten (Ness/Lucas Semi Clone). I don't have anything, I only really predict the first 9.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

So, if we have 65 characters already.... +3 echoes... 68. 10 Characters left to be revealed if the "3 each week" is true.

This is inaccurate I already counted this earlier. We have 65 but both the Mii fighters and Pokemon Trainer share a video, and echoes get their own. So it's actually 64. So it's actually 14 more characters. I don't see that happening personally (17 newcomers total?!)

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

• Echo: Dixie Kong

That aint it

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Spoiler: Leak Thoughts

Isaac and Soren both strike me as somewhat odd choices.

Not saying it's fake, after all, Wii Fit Trainer is a VERY odd choice.

 

[Hinata]

Can we get someone to compare the Inklings Model to the Mii Costume? That would either confirm or disconfirm this theory.

Spoiler: all under a spoiler bc big images

Here are the Inkling Miis in all their horrifying glory.

And here's a screencap of the Inkling in Smash Ultimate.

For added comparison, here's a screencap that better shows off the Inkling's shirt.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

To be fair, so do Mega Evolutions and that didn't stop Mewtwo, Lucario and Charizard in 4.

Not what I'm saying, the catastropika animation requires a trainer, the move is bland without it

 

[GaroMaster]

I'm speaking this opinion as someone who has only played Xenoblade 1 and neither X or 2, but:

Elma>>>>>>>>>>Rex & Pyra
To me, not only would Elma represent a different side of Xenoblade (the X series), but she has a much more appealing design. She stands out far more than Rex & Pyra would, as she's a woman that can wield swords, guns, and ride a mech. Not to mention, we would get a really cool Xenoblade X stage out of her inclusion. While I wouldn't mind Rex, he just seems....vanilla. He probably has a lot more going for him than I am giving him credit for, but there isn't much about Rex that looks special.
Elma just seems like she would bring more new stuff to the table.

I thought of a fun game!
Based on the remaining stages pick your top 5 you want to return that haven't been confirmed yet. Doesn't have to be in order. Here's the pic for reference.
View attachment 151470

5. Orbital Gate - I thought this stage was gorgeous on the Wii U and I can't wait to see it on the Switch. I also thought it was a fun stage and showed an aspect of Star Fox that wasn't just fight one one ship.
4. Meta Crystal - Would be a superrrrr cool call back. I don't know if it's possible though since it was never a selectable stage.
3. Pac Maze - The superior Pac Man stage and I'm worried it won't come back due to "1 stage per third party series". Hopefully that's wrong.
2. Brinstar Depths - What a cool stage! Make it prettier and it would be amazing.
1. Poke Floats - Despite being one of the laziest stages made, it is the best stage in Smash history, nuff said. Can't have Smash Ultimate without it.

1.) Meta Crystal- Honestly, this stage should've been playable in 64 since it has a fairly unique layout and aesthetic. It'd be a nice callback to the early years of Smash and would be very nice to see. There's no such thing as too many 64 stages.
2.) Hanenbow- As weird and hated as this stage, there's still nothing like Hanenbow in Smash. Given the fact that we now have hazard toggle and Battlefield and Omega forms, I don't think a lot of people would mind this stage's return. It's better than Mario Bros, that's for sure.
3.) Mushroom Kingdom 1 (Melee)- No, not the N64 one. I'm of course talking about the original Mushroom Kingdom from Melee. As much as it's redundant considering we already have so many Kingdom stages, there's no better Kingdom for items than this one. It didn't move and since there were so many ? Blocks, the chaos that items brought to this stage was magical when I played it in Melee. One of my top picks and I am disappointed that not many people want it back.
4.) Poke Floats- Do I even need to explain? It's Poke Floats.
5.) Pac-Maze- Pac-Maze is superior to Pac-Land and would be a cool arcade throwback stage. As for the gimmick, you can get rid of it. It's not a big deal.
Honorable Mentions go to Rainbow Cruise, Paper Mario, Rainbow Road, Gamer, Windy Hill, Fountain of Dreams, and Brinstar Depths.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Spoiler: all under a spoiler bc big images

View attachment 151500

Here are the Inkling Miis in all their horrifying glory.

View attachment 151498

And here's a screencap of the Inkling in Smash Ultimate.

View attachment 151499

For added comparison, here's a screencap that better shows off the Inkling's shirt.

Seems like a down-scaled version of the actual character, but it's possible. The shoes and splattershot are similar, but the backpack straps seems longer for the mii costume to me. The backpack straps may be due to the angle though.

 

[Pakky]

Can we get someone to compare the Inklings Model to the Mii Costume? That would either confirm or disconfirm this theory.

Couldn't find the Mii Costume but the trophy of Inkling in the Wiiu version has the hair as a separate piece from the models most likely a model rip from Splatoon 1 as the boy and girl, models are nearly identical except for the hair. So for the Mii costume they probably just plopped this on to the Mii's head and well that's that.

Its pretty decent res too, almost 20,000 faces/tris

Spoiler: Model shot

 

[Arcanir]

From the Isaac thread

This is a unique rumor.

No Pokémon newcomers would be very surprising as while it could be our 'rule break' of the game since it's highly expected, I don't really count on it since the series is always going to have new and unique options to choose from and TCPi loves their promotion. It's a series that due to its nature thrives on new additions to Smash, so it skipping this round when its 20th anniversary games were in consideration with many Pokémon from it being viable would be very odd.

Similarly, Soren is an odd choice, especially with Chrom also being an Echo. Technically they could get away with the sword as he did use knifes in PoR and they could make that his differentiating factor (ex. shorter range), but it's a bit of a stretch. Additionally, while he's a major character in the Tellius saga, I don't think he's the most popular option you can draw from the series as a whole, especially if you're going for Echoes, so it'd be strange to dig that deep for him when he's not really on the radar at the time.

 

[Blargg888]

I'm speaking this opinion as someone who has only played Xenoblade 1 and neither X or 2, but:

Elma>>>>>>>>>>Rex & Pyra
To me, not only would Elma represent a different side of Xenoblade (the X series), but she has a much more appealing design. She stands out far more than Rex & Pyra would, as she's a woman that can wield swords, guns, and ride a mech. Not to mention, we would get a really cool Xenoblade X stage out of her inclusion. While I wouldn't mind Rex, he just seems....vanilla. He probably has a lot more going for him than I am giving him credit for, but there isn't much about Rex that looks special.
Elma just seems like she would bring more new stuff to the table.

1.) Meta Crystal- Honestly, this stage should've been playable in 64 since it has a fairly unique layout and aesthetic. It'd be a nice callback to the early years of Smash and would be very nice to see. There's no such thing as too many 64 stages.
2.) Hanenbow- As weird and hated as this stage, there's still nothing like Hanenbow in Smash. Given the fact that we now have hazard toggle and Battlefield and Omega forms, I don't think a lot of people would mind this stage's return. It's better than Mario Bros, that's for sure.
3.) Mushroom Kingdom 1 (Melee)- No, not the N64 one. I'm of course talking about the original Mushroom Kingdom from Melee. As much as it's redundant considering we already have so many Kingdom stages, there's no better Kingdom for items than this one. It didn't move and since there were so many ? Blocks, the chaos that items brought to this stage was magical when I played it in Melee. One of my top picks and I am disappointed that not many people want it back.
4.) Poke Floats- Do I even need to explain? It's Poke Floats.
5.) Pac-Maze- Pac-Maze is superior to Pac-Land and would be a cool arcade throwback stage. As for the gimmick, you can get rid of it. It's not a big deal.
Honorable Mentions go to Rainbow Cruise, Paper Mario, Rainbow Road, Gamer, Windy Hill, Fountain of Dreams, and Brinstar Depths.

Mushroom Kingdom Melee with only Smart Bombs on would be like a non-moving Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 with only Smart Bombs on.

Everyone would die all at once. The chaos is palpable.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Spoiler: all under a spoiler bc big images

View attachment 151500

Here are the Inkling Miis in all their horrifying glory.

View attachment 151498

And here's a screencap of the Inkling in Smash Ultimate.

View attachment 151499

For added comparison, here's a screencap that better shows off the Inkling's shirt.

Are we sure the mii costume model wasn't just ripped from splatoon 1 tho?

 

[Zeox]

This is inaccurate I already counted this earlier. We have 65 but both the Mii fighters and Pokemon Trainer share a video, and echoes get their own. So it's actually 64. So it's actually 14 more characters. I don't see that happening personally (17 newcomers total?!)

I can see it happening, but remember we are talking about max characters if they continue doing this of 3 characters a week, if they skip a full week it would be just 11 more.
But 14 more doesn't sound crazy, after all, they had time enough to add small details like Olimar's helmet breaking or R.O.B having a bar of fuel.
The time they didn't use remaking mario, luigi, and the rest of the characters from smash 4 (because they just ported them and then added some details and make better animations) they could have used it in making the game bigger and with more characters.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Spoiler: all under a spoiler bc big images

View attachment 151500

Here are the Inkling Miis in all their horrifying glory.

View attachment 151498

And here's a screencap of the Inkling in Smash Ultimate.

View attachment 151499

For added comparison, here's a screencap that better shows off the Inkling's shirt.

Weird how those Inkling Mii costumes weren’t bad

Reminder that Dark Pit wasn't originally going to be his own character, same goes for Lucina.

Kid Icarus wasn't originally going to have 3 characters, it was only going to have two.

And now in a way, Kid Icarus only has 2 fighters since echoes don’t get their own number (my excuse for Viridi to join Smash)

 

[dezeray112]

In regards to Xenoblade reps, I personally don't mind between Elma or Rex & Pyra whether they are in as base or DLC.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Can we get someone to compare the Inklings Model to the Mii Costume? That would either confirm or disconfirm this theory.

These images should help you.

Spoiler

Edit:'d

 

[Deleted member]

I want to see Opossum's reaction if Chrom gets in Smash Bros. as an Echo Fighter so bad.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Ice Climbe r banned from the current Brawl meta and not Meta Knight? It's a barely existing community but I remember hearing that a few weeks ago

Ice Climbers was never banned.
Meta Knight was banned for only four months and that was it.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

14 more isn't that much of a stretch, especially considering that echo fighters are a prominent thing in this installment. If we have 9 unique newcomers and 5 echoes that's still less than both Brawl and Sm4sh.

These images should help you.

Spoiler

View attachment 151502

Edit:'d

Male Inkling seems like much more of a stretch.

I'm skeptical.

 

[Deleted member]

Hot take/random thought: 70% of the reason I want my most wanted characters to get in is because I just can't fit any more first-party characters into my ideal roster

Spoiler

Even the Echoes are tucked into their own row because they can't fit in any other row

 

[Arcadenik]

snip

Damn. Characters look better as playable fighters than they do as Mii costumes.

 

[Cosmic77]

Unlike the previous installments, Sakurai is only working on one game and most of the content can be directly copied over.

Even when you factor in the returning characters, I don't see why Sakurai wouldn't be able to create at least eight unique newcomers. He has the same amount of development time, the 3DS isn't there to cause technical limitations, and he's supposedly a lot less stressed out than before. The only thing that could possibly hold him back is the crazy number of returning stages, but even then, he's basically just copying what he made in older Smash games.

 

[Wambo]

I can see it happening, but remember we are talking about max characters if they continue doing this of 3 characters a week, if they skip a full week it would be just 11 more.
But 14 more doesn't sound crazy, after all, they had time enough to add small details like Olimar's helmet breaking or R.O.B having a bar of fuel.
The time they didn't use remaking mario, luigi, and the rest of the characters from smash 4 (because they just ported them and then added some details and make better animations) they could have used it in making the game bigger and with more characters.

12-14 characters make a lot more sense with what you said. Hard to think of good people to fill those slots, though.

Likely:
> K.Rool
> Geno
> Bandanna Dee
> Isaac
> Simon (Whatever, let's just roll with it)
> Elma
> Ashley

Less Likely:
> King Hippo (Wild guess, but hey, someone for Little Mac to fight)
> Dixie Kong ε
> Chrom ε
> Dark Samus ε
> Ninten ε (Maybe?)
> Shadow ε (Maybe?)
> Skull Kid? Paper Mario? (Ugh)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Hot take/random thought: 70% of the reason I want my most wanted characters to get in is because I just can't fit any more first-party characters into my ideal roster

Spoiler

View attachment 151503
Even the Echoes are tucked into their own row because they can't fit in any other row

Good, and I’ve been triggered by the organization of some of the characters (Yoshi always messing things up)

 

[KMDP]

Phew, it took me 6 hours to catch up from last night (I woke up to find 43 alerts for me).

I think it would interesting if we had 1 character reveal a month (so, 6), plus 4-5 secret newcomers, for a total of 10/11 and that nice sounding "Over 75 Characters" marketing slogan.

With this in mind... I'd go for this... These aren't including Inkling, Ridley and Daisy, for the record. Echoes don't add to the number.

Spoiler: 11 Newcomers

1. King K. Rool
2. Dixie Kong
3. Bandana Dee
4. Ashley
5. Incineroar
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Geno
9. Tails
10. Shadow
11. Sephiroth
12. Impa (Sheik Echo)
13. Chrom (Ike Echo)
14. Ken (Ryu Echo)

Then for DLC... Something like this...

Spoiler: DLC Newcomers

1. A contest to decide an Assist Trophy upgrade (Waluigi, Lyn, Knuckles etc)
2. Celica
3. Rex & Pyra
4. Spring Man
5. Chun Li
6. Simon Belmont
7. Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
8. Tifa Lockhart
9. Sora

'Course, this is just me saying what I'd like to see, so it's less a Prediction and more of a Wishlist peppered with prediction.

 

[StormC]

I think 8 is a reasonable upper limit for newcomers. Melee had 8 non-clone newcomers and it had a development cycle of 13 months.

More than 8 would shock me. I'm still thinking 5-7 atm, but 8 is definitely possible.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

14 more isn't that much of a stretch, especially considering that echo fighters are a prominent thing in this installment. If we have 9 unique newcomers and 5 echoes that's still less than both Brawl and Sm4sh.


Male Inkling seems like much more of a stretch.

I'm skeptical.

I have captured a screenshot of the Inkling Boy's shirt for further comparison.

Spoiler

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Eeeeeeeeeee, Ninja Warriors Again is allegedly getting a remake for the Switch.

Which reminds me, would Taito want to have their older mascots (Bub & Bob from Bubble Bobble) in Smash? They are technically a part of Square-Enix, after all...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think 8 is a reasonable upper limit for newcomers. Melee had 8 non-clone newcomers and it had a development cycle of 13 months.

More than 8 would shock me. I'm still thinking 5-7 atm, but 8 is definitely possible.

8 Newcomers and 6 Echo Fighters seems like the best we're gonna get. I really would like to see some more echo fighters.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I have a feeling that the whole Mii costume vs Playable is not going to get any answers. The Mii costumes for the inklings are probalby low-res model rips from Splatoon, and there's a 99% chance they remodeled them for Ultimate anyway (HD coversion and all that).

I highly doubt that the Mii costumes in Sm4sh are in any way model rips from the new game.

I know it's wishful thinking and it all goes back to K.Rool again, but the thing I find most interesting is the texture. K.Rool's been a trophy in the last three games, so why did they choose a different design? The model is definitely original, but the texture...it's also original and didn't need to be.

 

[EchoAegis]

What is the song you want the most in Ulitmate even if it has the slightest or no chance at all in making it in? Mines has to be the final boss theme from Kingdom Hearts 2.8 Birth By Sleep 0.2

 

[DLEAF]

8 Newcomers and 6 Echo Fighters seems like the best we're gonna get. I really would like to see some more echo fighters.

I mean, I love a good Echo fighter and/or clone...

...but 6? Even with the fancy re-brand, I can't imagine people liking that at all. I personally would want at least 3 of those to be more original, i.e. the Melee clones.

 

[Cosmic77]

8 Newcomers and 6 Echo Fighters seems like the best we're gonna get. I really would like to see some more echo fighters.

Depends on who the Echo Fighters are.

If they're characters who probably wouldn't have gotten in Smash without being an easy to add clone, I might be less critical. If they're characters who clearly have a strong following and relevancy to justify getting in as a unique character (Dixie, Impa, etc.), then Sakurai can keep those to himself. I'd rather wait for a Smash game where they can get in as the unique characters they deserve to be.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

personal wants mixed in with a bit of realism. my main rule was no third-party echoes, but I could see them just for how many people would want them

1. King. K Rool
2. Masked Man
3. Isaac
4. Dillon
5. Rhythm Heaven
6. Geno
7. Daroach (Or, more realistically, Bandana Dee)
8. Third-Party. If not, Incineroar or Decidueye
9e. Dark Samus (Samus Echo)
10e. Octoling (Inkling Echo)
11e. Louie (Pikmin Echo)
12e. Isabelle (Animal Crossing echo)
13e. Funky Kong (DK Echo)
14e. Midbus (Bowser Echo) or Fire Emblem Echo with Celica or Chrom

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I can see it happening, but remember we are talking about max characters if they continue doing this of 3 characters a week, if they skip a full week it would be just 11 more.
But 14 more doesn't sound crazy, after all, they had time enough to add small details like Olimar's helmet breaking or R.O.B having a bar of fuel.
The time they didn't use remaking mario, luigi, and the rest of the characters from smash 4 (because they just ported them and then added some details and make better animations) they could have used it in making the game bigger and with more characters.

I absolutely agree that they had to do something with that extra time and talent, besides just veterans. Personally my bet is on a big adventure mode (not story really). But characters could be it too! It's just what Sakurai said...I'm not expecting too much more.

 

[PeridotGX]

What is the song you want the most in Ulitmate even if it has the slightest or no chance at all in making it in? Mines has to be the final boss theme from Kingdom Hearts 2.8 Birth By Sleep 0.2

Primal Dialga's theme from Mystery Dungeon, and Dark Matter's theme from Planet Robobot.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I have a feeling that the whole Mii costume vs Playable is not going to get any answers. The Mii costumes for the inklings are probalby low-res model rips from Splatoon, and there's a 99% chance they remodeled them for Ultimate anyway (HD coversion and all that).

I highly doubt that the Mii costumes in Sm4sh are in any way model rips from the new game.

I know it's wishful thinking and it all goes back to K.Rool again, but the thing I find most interesting is the texture. K.Rool's been a trophy in the last three games, so why did they choose a different design? The model is definitely original, but the texture...it's also original and didn't need to be.

This is my reasoning behind why I think the Mii costumes might be hinting towards something, because the team wouldn't have created a new design for K. Rool (and given his tail and old crown back) if they din't have something else planned. Even if they don't use the old costumes, they'd still have a reference to build new characters off of.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I mean, I love a good Echo fighter and/or clone...

...but 6? Even with the fancy re-brand, I can't imagine people liking that at all.

It shouldn't matter if people don't like it. We're not going to get a lot of newcomers, so people should be happy to have extra fighters.