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Smash Commentary has to Improve

S.G.

S.G.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
286
Location
USC
what the melee community currently has is the equivalent of Mexican/Telemundo Commentary on soccer
What the melee community needs (at least on videos and tournaments that could have chances of being exposed to a wider field) is that of professional/english soccer stations

Not to incite anything racist, it's just two different styles
 
Violence

Violence

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
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Location
Vancouver, BC
So I've played several games that have commentary.

Starcraft, Go(board game), and Magic the Gathering.

All three of these have had replays with commentary, and I've noticed a pattern.

There are always two commenters: the Pro, and the Scrub, for lack of better terms.

The Pro does the majority of the talking. He explains what's going on, and the Scrub's job is to chime in with good questions, so that the pro can answer them. In this way, people watching learn something and it's more interesting to them.

I think it's important to show that the smash community is friendly, energetic, and funny. That's why I really enjoy HMW's commentary. I think though, that if he had a scrub next to him asking questions, people would enjoy his commentary much more, and he'd get a lot more respect in the community.

Example:

HMW: And we've winner's semis round 2, DK vs Fox, counterpicked on FD

Scrub: So why did P1 counterpick DK and FD?

HMW: P1's confident in his DK, he knows how to combo the **** outta Foxes using the grab jump uthrow combos-oh ****, there he go, get that **** done, P1, FD's good because the Fox can't land on platforms in the air while being comboed, so DK can ****.

And then the scrub asks something else. The scrub doesn't have to be bad, just has to be able to ask good questions, so that people who are watching and don't know things keep interested.

I don't think it'd be hard to do, and I think people would enjoy his commentaries more like this.
 
Nintendude

Nintendude

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One of 2006's MLG sets has commentary with a knowledgeable smash player and a Halo player just getting into smash. I forget what set it was but I think they had the same style of commentary you just described and it was pretty good.
 
X1-12

X1-12

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
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Location
Southampton, UK
Violence said:
So I've played several games that have commentary.

Starcraft, Go(board game), and Magic the Gathering.

All three of these have had replays with commentary, and I've noticed a pattern.

There are always two commenters: the Pro, and the Scrub, for lack of better terms.

The Pro does the majority of the talking. He explains what's going on, and the Scrub's job is to chime in with good questions, so that the pro can answer them. In this way, people watching learn something and it's more interesting to them.

I think it's important to show that the smash community is friendly, energetic, and funny. That's why I really enjoy HMW's commentary. I think though, that if he had a scrub next to him asking questions, people would enjoy his commentary much more, and he'd get a lot more respect in the community.

Example:

HMW: And we've winner's semis round 2, DK vs Fox, counterpicked on FD

Scrub: So why did P1 counterpick DK and FD?

HMW: P1's confident in his DK, he knows how to combo the **** outta Foxes using the grab jump uthrow combos-oh ****, there he go, get that **** done, P1, FD's good because the Fox can't land on platforms in the air while being comboed, so DK can ****.

And then the scrub asks something else. The scrub doesn't have to be bad, just has to be able to ask good questions, so that people who are watching and don't know things keep interested.

I don't think it'd be hard to do, and I think people would enjoy his commentaries more like this.
Click to expand...


I don't think it has to follow the pro/scrub format, but I think teamwork with your co-commentator (beyond screaming at the same time) is important
 
Kason Birdman

Kason Birdman

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Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
2,240
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519, Ontario
Squidster said:
This is silly

mlg commentary is geared towards players who don't play the game often or at all

waffle-esk commentary is done at local tournaments with the same 20 people every week. It isn't broadcasted, sponsored, or promotional in any way.

Wife / husband commentary is pretty good, but they wouldn't commentate like that at local tournaments every week. Wayyyyy different audience than waffle.
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this right here.

people are forgeting what matches they're watching when they expect the commentary to be top of the line... just because its on the most populare smash channel. mlg, and huge tourny turnouts (pound 4, apex 2, genisis) should be handled by wife and husband and other commentators similair to them.

but i still enjoy the casual, funny, massivly hype commentary. i feel its what maylays all about. just having a freaking awesome time.
 
Dart!

Dart!

Smash Master
Joined
May 12, 2010
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East Peoria, IL
1Kason1 said:
this right here.

people are forgeting what matches they're watching when they expect the commentary to be top of the line... just because its on the most populare smash channel. mlg, and huge tourny turnouts (pound 4, apex 2, genisis) should be handled by wife and husband and other commentators similair to them.

but i still enjoy the casual, funny, massivly hype commentary. i feel its what maylays all about. just having a freaking awesome time.
Click to expand...
"I'm having a good time i'm having a ball DON'T STOP ME NOW...DON'T STOP ME NOWWWWWWWWWWW
 
goateeguy

goateeguy

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
795
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right behind you
1Kason1 said:
this right here.
...but i still enjoy the casual, funny, massivly hype commentary. i feel its what maylays all about. just having a freaking awesome time.
Click to expand...
it's a freaking awesome time for the two people commentating and a lot of turning the speaker volume down for the rest of us.
 
PB&J

PB&J

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Apr 25, 2007
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lawrenceville, GA
bach- i tried to do the revival of melee montage and it sucked compared to yours..please come back to us. you are the reason why i wanted to play melee competitive . your vids made smash look so fun with all your footage and montages. please come to apex and show us how its done.
 
Tomato

Tomato

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Joined
Mar 22, 2008
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282
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The negative air about Smash stems from people viewing Nintendo as the 'kiddy' line of video games. And when you compare it to other competitively played games (Halo, Call of Duty, etc), it does seem a lot more childish and is overall more 'light' in its themes. Couple that with ridiculous commentary and people outside of the community are going to view the Smashers are silly and possibly even barbaric, albeit that term may be a little extreme.

Husband & Wife do an excellent job commentating, and as previously mentioned, they provide insight, their take on the match, strategies, analyzing what the players are doing, and pretty much everything that a professional commentator you would watch on TV does, just translated into Smash talk. And since Smash is still relatively new to the competitive sphere, a lot of the terms are pretty arcane to people outside of the community, and the fact that some people choose to yell and scream about them makes Smash commentary seem like some sort of tribal ceremony.

But yeah, if the Smash community ever wants outside respect, they'll need more professional commentators. I for one love listening to the New York Mets announcers. They work well together. Gary Cohen is the main speaker, he's got the voice, and does the play-by-play, provides some background info, and asks Ron Darling & Keith Hernandez specific questions about being a player in the league, and a lot of other interesting things that people who weren't players would not know. So ideally, if you want a two man commentator team (Which is probably most ideal), you'd want one guy who is a knowledgeable fan, and another person who is a knowledgeable player. Commentating bigger Smash events is something that should be taken seriously, and I hope that over time more professional commentary becomes the standard here.
 
Zoler

Zoler

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Joined
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Messages
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Tomato said:
The negative air about Smash stems from people viewing Nintendo as the 'kiddy' line of video games. And when you compare it to other competitively played games (Halo, Call of Duty, etc), it does seem a lot more childish and is overall more 'light' in its themes. Couple that with ridiculous commentary and people outside of the community are going to view the Smashers are silly and possibly even barbaric, albeit that term may be a little extreme.

Husband & Wife do an excellent job commentating, and as previously mentioned, they provide insight, their take on the match, strategies, analyzing what the players are doing, and pretty much everything that a professional commentator you would watch on TV does, just translated into Smash talk. And since Smash is still relatively new to the competitive sphere, a lot of the terms are pretty arcane to people outside of the community, and the fact that some people choose to yell and scream about them makes Smash commentary seem like some sort of tribal ceremony.

But yeah, if the Smash community ever wants outside respect, they'll need more professional commentators. I for one love listening to the New York Mets announcers. They work well together. Gary Cohen is the main speaker, he's got the voice, and does the play-by-play, provides some background info, and asks Ron Darling & Keith Hernandez specific questions about being a player in the league, and a lot of other interesting things that people who weren't players would not know. So ideally, if you want a two man commentator team (Which is probably most ideal), you'd want one guy who is a knowledgeable fan, and another person who is a knowledgeable player. Commentating bigger Smash events is something that should be taken seriously, and I hope that over time more professional commentary becomes the standard here.
Click to expand...
Why did you bring up Halo or Call of Duty when you could pick Starcraft, DotA, WC3, CS 1.6?
 
Tomato

Tomato

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They were just the first ones that came to mind, I wasn't trying to say anything negative about them. It's just that when I think of competitive gaming, those were two that first came to mind - They're much more popular where I live than any of what you just mentioned.
 
Mooplet

Mooplet

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Joined
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Messages
228
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Stony Brook, NY
The best commentary, at least for me while i'm watching a match, is the horribly loud reaction to an amazing sequence or combo.
 
MikeHaggarTHAKJB

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

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Joined
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Messages
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rofl @ calling cod competitive.
its a fun series of games and ive played 2 and 4 alot, but when you look at the games closely its very obvious that they're heavily oriented towards casual play and they lack real depth.

i **** at 4 btw, i was easily top 5 in the servers i played in (BOD FFA and wireplay.co.uk FFA) when I played so dont think im saying that just cuz i suck.

edit: LOL @ having that and ****in halo come to mind first as competitive games. you americans...
 
ZeldaFreak0309

ZeldaFreak0309

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
391
Location
Fremont, CA
Violence said:
So I've played several games that have commentary.

Starcraft, Go(board game), and Magic the Gathering.

All three of these have had replays with commentary, and I've noticed a pattern.

There are always two commenters: the Pro, and the Scrub, for lack of better terms.

The Pro does the majority of the talking. He explains what's going on, and the Scrub's job is to chime in with good questions, so that the pro can answer them. In this way, people watching learn something and it's more interesting to them.

I think it's important to show that the smash community is friendly, energetic, and funny. That's why I really enjoy HMW's commentary. I think though, that if he had a scrub next to him asking questions, people would enjoy his commentary much more, and he'd get a lot more respect in the community.

Example:

HMW: And we've winner's semis round 2, DK vs Fox, counterpicked on FD

Scrub: So why did P1 counterpick DK and FD?

HMW: P1's confident in his DK, he knows how to combo the **** outta Foxes using the grab jump uthrow combos-oh ****, there he go, get that **** done, P1, FD's good because the Fox can't land on platforms in the air while being comboed, so DK can ****.

And then the scrub asks something else. The scrub doesn't have to be bad, just has to be able to ask good questions, so that people who are watching and don't know things keep interested.

I don't think it'd be hard to do, and I think people would enjoy his commentaries more like this.
Click to expand...
Quoting for emphasis...I really think this is the best idea in this whole thread

Edit: Also, I think the reason the Wife + Husband commentary worked so well for the Armada/M2K set was that the two commentators each had an understanding of the matchup from their characters' perspectives. So I think it might also be helpful, for a given matchup, to have 2 commentators who play each character in the matchup, because they will have a lot to say, and offer more enlightening perspectives than someone who doesn't understand the matchup as well.
 
Solid Jake

Solid Jake

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BACH said:
All I tried to do with the montages was show people who didn't come what it was like to be there. You will notice there is very little gameplay/combos in them

http://m.youtube.com/#/profile?desktop_uri=/mlgbach&user=mlgbach&gl=US
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I wrote an article awhile back about how your montages are what got me interested in competitive smash, and basically how smash has drastically shaped my life over the last 4 years. Its good to see you posting! Also I've been meaning to fix your double post but sadly I can't on SWF Mobile.
 
victra♥

victra♥

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Slippi.gg
victra#0
PB&J

PB&J

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Rain(ame)

Rain(ame)

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I'll take a potato chip....and eat it!!!
I've noted something about the commentary before. The language, itself is a problem. Even wrestling commentary isn't as laden with profanity as Smash commentary is. Plus, they keep at a Family Guy level of language. (The one that's on TV) Finding a good balance is fine, and SHOULD be like that.

By the way...Wife and Husband commentary at Pound4 was not impressive compared to their MLG days. I'd like to point that out first and foremost. It seemed lacking and there were some errors. I'm sure they'd be back in shape soon, but you can't rely on that alone.

As far as finding commentators...well it's going to be harder than normal, but it can be done. There are people out there who can commentate fine, they just need to realize that they don't have to try so hard to be funny. Doing your natural thing would probably be more than enough to please those listening. I do it quite a bit when showing people matches.

Just giving my two cents
 
V

Voodoo Daddy

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Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
234
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Towson, MD
AlphaZealot said:
I think you misunderstood. The Wombo Combo is *not*, at least in my opinion, good commentary. You brought up Husband and Wife...they would never, ever commentate that way.

Ever since that video, more people have been trying to get off one-liners/catch phrases/ and other BS that is sometimes funny and sometimes not, but on the whole has lead to a reduction in intelligent commentary in exchange for...nonsense.

I know, it comes off as harsh, and I'll probably get some flak for chastising such a popular video.
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I don't like how we're all pretending that this game isn't played by young adults and primarily men. Waffles does a great job capturing the emotion of the match. There's more to commentary then words, there's voice too.

Maybe it's because I'm an actor and I work on vocal performance a lot, but I appreciate phil and waffles because they commentate with well... feeling. But lets designate commentators (at least those we agree can commentate) before tournaments.
 
PB&J

PB&J

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people complain about commentary too much..its all preference

do u want hype,detailed, bias, or funny..all three would be nice but they are all cool with me

all preference
 
B

Ballistics

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
2,266
Location
Tallahassee Florida State, what WHAT!
Guys please stop talking during matches and calling it "commentary". This is why I think you feel a need to talk during matches:

1. ESPN does it - They get paid, they must get trained, and they are accountable for what they say. I personally hate sports "commentary" because I am watching the game they are spouting about, the only time I want to hear about a game is if I'm listening to the radio.
2. Silence bothers you - Please see a doctor. Silence is the language of God.
3. You like the sound of your own voice - There's nothing wrong with that, but I don't like the sound of your voice so please be considerate.
4. You think you can impart wisdom or background information - This is actually good/interesting however, it doesn't require you to talk during the whole match.
5. You think its cool - Fail, its not cool.
 
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