Smash Bros. Melee was "too difficult" - New Sakurai Interview

[Rubyiris]

Dokapon Kingdom > Every party game.

That is all.

 

[Vigilante]

I don't feel like judging Powerstone because I'm sad to say I didn't try it yet (And I want to). ^^.

Edit: Dokapon Kingdom put some of my closest friendships in peril, but it was hilarious. I reccomend it if you like party games and RPGs.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

bushido blade was the first fighting game I know of with tripping in it like 1998 you can also stab people.

also XD at brawl taking more patince. hey f*** you brawlers I time out in friendilies some times in melee get that s*** out of here. our timer is longer.

yeah I play gay without chain throws space animals break defense like crazy I could time out as link vs mario on a large stage but not against a space animal.

 

[Darkshooter]

Mario Party 4 is better than Brawl.

That is all.

 

[ss118]

Candyland is better than Brawl. Brawl also takes longer than an 8-player game of monopoly.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

Also, A pimp named slickback did you really say ganon sucks?

Inb4KageandRockcrock

lmao

Ganon SUCKS SO HARD

you don't even know

 

[Black Mantis]

lmao

Ganon SUCKS SO HARD

you don't even know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFPI5JNPyDI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubuBlAR6z2g

and brawl is longer?

 

[DAS]

Melee not really difficult, but it does take some time to get use to the gimmicks and speed of you some of the moves though. It certainly easier than any other fighting game I tried to be good at.

I was hoping for any new smash brothers to cover some middle ground between everyone, mainly because of repetitive bashing upon either Smash series for whatever reasons since it gets tiresome as well. Judging by what I read that might not happen in any new series, but I don't really care though.

 

[teluoborg]

ITT : a lot of people seizing their chance to unleash their frustration.

I don't get why so many melee players hate brawl while almost every brawl player likes melee.

It's been 3 years, get over it.

 

[CloneHat]

I don't get why so many melee players hate brawl while almost every brawl player likes melee.

You will if you apply simple logic to what you just said.

 

[Deleted member]

You will if you apply simple logic to what you just said.

I was thinking EXACTLY this, but I didn't know how to put it into words <3

 

[TheGoat]

ITT : a lot of people seizing their chance to unleash their frustration.

I don't get why so many melee players hate brawl while almost every brawl player likes melee.

It's been 3 years, get over it.

I don't understand why people go haywire over this. Many Melee players hate Brawl because in their opinion, it's a garbage game. Just because it's in the smash series doesn't mean it automatically garners respect; a lot of people find it flat out not fun to play.

Furthermore, it was a huge letdown because people expected a "Melee 2" to come out in 2008. Instead, we got completely let down, so no **** we're still going to be pissed at nintendo for screwing us over.

I don't get why so many melee players hate brawl while almost every brawl player likes melee.

CloneHat covered that quite well.

 

[Mike G]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFPI5JNPyDI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubuBlAR6z2g

and brawl is longer?

This is exactly what I'm talking about, mantis.


You use a few rare examples to make you point then you jump to a conclusion.


Why do you do that?

 

[Black Mantis]

It doesn't matter if they're rare. They still happened. I guarantee you if more people played like that in melee then people would complain about it as much as they do in Brawl.

 

[ss118]

I actually agree with that statement. This game has the potential to be so much more of a stallish game than we play it out to be. Especially with RC and KJ64 ******ry, among other things.

Falcon can make samus essentially useless if he just runs away. Like seriously, it is that bad.

 

[Pengie]

I used to think that KJ64 was semi neutral, and then I realized how stupid that stage is against certain characters.

 

[TheGoat]

It doesn't matter if they're rare. They still happened. I guarantee you if more people played like that in melee then people would complain about it as much as they do in Brawl.

It does matter if they're rare. You went and searched for the longest melee tournament videos you could find to try to prove your point, but you completely ignore the fact that melee matches are faster the majority of the time, and brawl matches DO take longer than melee matches on average.

People usually don't care if a match is just long-if it's boring though, they do complain.
Take this for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxqkId6krII&feature=related

The match was very short, but people still hated it because puff dittos are boring to watch. You see, the boringness of a match isn't only dictated by it's length. A whole lot of people don't watch brawl because to them it's just boring to watch; the length of the matches makes only exacerbates this problem.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFPI5JNPyDI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubuBlAR6z2g

and brawl is longer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5ZE-HxVBE

Ganon sucks bro

and I don't even know what you're trying to say with that last video that hasn't already been said

It's Peach vs. Puff on Dreamland and Peach vs. Ganon on KJ64.

I mean, what the **** do you expect? You're taking two characters who get vertically camped really easily, then taking them to the two largest stages in the game, one of them not even legal anymore.

Meanwhile I see games like this on Smashville in Brawl between the top tier characters.

Then you go and claim that it's equally easy to stall in Melee? Give me a break bro.

 

[Deleted member]

It doesn't matter if they're rare. They still happened. I guarantee you if more people played like that in melee then people would complain about it as much as they do in Brawl.

What you are saying here implies that there are many people who would do better to play with a defensive style in melee rather than offensive. Before I infer that point and do a rebuttal to it, and you say "I never said that", I want to ask, are you saying that many players in melee would do better to play campy/defensive?

 

[Vigilante]

Okay, I'll try to explain it very simply.

We'll start from the origin of the series and go all the way to Brawl. Smash bros 64 was a slow game, yet was the first in the series, so poeple were used to it. There was little to no competitive scene before Melee. Then Melee came out with a game that required twitch reflex and that responded very fast with very minimal lag-time. Poeple mastered characters ans eventually, those gameplay styles began to define these characters in their eyes. They invested a lot of time and effort into this game.

Then brawl comes in and instead of adding depth to the game, it removes some. The game is slower, and the lag is so horrendous that one literally has to force himself to wait before inputing another command. it takes you out of the experience because in Melee, the controller was a part of you. It reacted with your reflexes. in Brawl, you having to time your moves slowly makes the controller external to you. You are aware that you are not in full control. Going from a game that feels responsive to a game that is not responsive is a big let-down for all of us.

Furthermore, Brawl destroyed the essence of some of our characters, namely Falco, Mario, Fox, Captain Falcon, Luigi, Marth, Shiek, Zelda and Gannondorf at more extreme levels. Changing Falco's moveset was a mistake for instances.

Not to mention that the lack of a decent short hop, and low gravity destroyed the air game instead of improving it. Comboes are rendered almost irrelevant and random events like tripping renders the game inelligible for fair tournament play.

The battle mechanics are a downgrade. So if you were good, this game is a letdown. Brawl starters won't hate melee because it's an upgrade. It's kind of like going from N64 to Melee.


And by the way, running is a legitimate tactic. It's called setting up appropriate distance.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What you are saying here implies that there are many people who would do better to play with a defensive style in melee rather than offensive. Before I infer that point and do a rebuttal to it, and you say "I never said that", I want to ask, are you saying that many players in melee would do better to play campy/defensive?

I would say so.

 

[teluoborg]

You will if you apply simple logic to what you just said.

So you hate brawl because everyone likes melee. Is that supposed to be the simple logic ?


@TheGoat : I know what it is to be disappointed by a sequel (heck, who doesn't), but what I find ridiculous is to keep this hatred going for so long that even 3 years after the release you still can't enjoy the good aspects of brawl because you're blinded by what it should have been.


@Vigilante : same thing as TheGoat except your post is filled with bias and ignorance, shunting that what you blame brawl to do to melee, melee did it to 64 ten folds.
You don't hate brawl because it requires no skill, you hate it because it doesn't require the skill you practiced for so long. And that's a lame reason.

Now I can understand that you don't care enough about brawl to look into its technical side, but don't go saying that it doesn't exist.

 

[CloneHat]

So you hate brawl because everyone likes melee. Is that supposed to be the simple logic ?

There are four parties as given in your example. Players who

A: Play Brawl and like Melee
B: Play Brawl and dislike Melee
C: Play Melee and like Brawl
D: Play Melee and dislike Brawl

However, you stated that B and C do not exist. This leaves

A: Play Brawl and like Melee
D: Play Melee and dislike Brawl

Each game receives on point for every person who plays it, as well as a point for every player who plays the other but likes it. By your reasoning, Melee and Brawls points are a 2:1 ratio.

I think you'll understand the connotations.

 

[BEES]

That dichotomy does not exist, of course. There are Brawl players that dislike Melee.

 

[TheGoat]

@TheGoat : I know what it is to be disappointed by a sequel (heck, who doesn't), but what I find ridiculous is to keep this hatred going for so long that even 3 years after the release you still can't enjoy the good aspects of brawl because you're blinded by what it should have been.

It doesn't matter how long it's been, if people hate brawl for what it is they will hate it forever. It's like somebody releases some ******** game where all you do is shoot poo at mooses. If somebody hates the gameplay, they aren't going to hate it any less 3 or 5 or 10 year from now. It's not just about "what is should have been", it's about "wow, I just played this game and I did not have much fun in the process".

You have to understand we aren't a gang of people who live in a cave spending our days plotting how we're going to murder brawl the next day. There are quite a bit of melee players that play brawl from time to time. Sometimes the hatred of brawl is even expressed in mild jest.

But there is a deep seeded resent for brawl. We look at melee and think, "wow what a beautiful game. What if nintendo had built upon that and made it even better." There are people that like brawl, and it's certainly a playable and enjoyable game.
But for us, it's like getting a diamond and later receiving a pile of dung. No matter how many years pass, we are going to be treasuring the diamond.

 

[teluoborg]

Oh I see. Brawl gets less points so it deserves to be hated.

Sorry for no understanding your logic.

Also I didn't say that B and C don't exist, but most of the time :
1-if one player likes both games he'll be playing brawl on a competitive level
2-if one player hates one of the two games, he'll be playing melee on a competitive level and hating brawl

Edit :

But for us, it's like getting a diamond and later receiving a pile of dung. No matter how many years pass, we are going to be treasuring the diamond.

Yeah, but here you are still keeping the pile of dung in the corner of your room just to rant about how it smells. For 3 freaking years.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

I actually agree with that statement. This game has the potential to be so much more of a stallish game than we play it out to be. Especially with RC and KJ64 ******ry, among other things.

Falcon can make samus essentially useless if he just runs away. Like seriously, it is that bad.

This is not true.

Samus exerts some very strong stage control.

Once Falcon is cornered it's done. Hit for hit, Samus will win because she can edgeguard and control Falcon HARD as long as she limits Falcon's mobility.

Falcon has to just run around and try to start combos on Samus and get her in the air so he can combo. It's true that sometimes it's difficult to stop Falcon from running but it's more than possible.

It's an even matchup (maybe slight advantage for Falcon)

Stalling in melee is hard as ****. You've probably never tried to do it, but it's insanely difficult vs. any good player because any player who knows their **** will combo the **** out of you once they get their hands on you.

 

[Vigilante]

I am biased, so are you. The game is objectively worse. Honestly, it,s not just because my skill in melee didn't move well into brawl. Rather, it is because the mechanics that made Melee hardcore are not in Brawl. And by taking these off, the game has lost all sense of competition.

Besides, the resent for Brawl is like Goat said. We had hyped for Brawl. and we didn't get anything close to the quality of Melee. So it was a slap in the face.

The entire content of your argument was "You're criticising it because you don't like it".... Yes... that is the point.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Your statement

I don't get why so many melee players hate brawl while almost every brawl player likes melee..

Possible groups of players

A: Play Brawl and like Melee
B: Play Brawl and dislike Melee
C: Play Melee and like Brawl
D: Play Melee and dislike Brawl

Given your statement, most brawl players like melee, therefore group B is very small (saying it doesn't exist is just a hyperbole for this).
Given your statement, melee players don't like brawl, therefor group C is also very small (hyperbole being it doesn't exist).


So we focus on groups A and D as they are the largest groups.

Group A has no complaints as they like both games. Group B does not like Brawl, so when the topic arises they complain about it. Therefor most of the posts you see regarding brawl will be people complaining about it, as people won't openly praise it unless in it's defense from said attacks (after all, people don't post the positives of any situation unless it comes into question). Here on the melee forums, such defenses are rare as it would require a player who likes brawl to be in the melee forums (they would be part of group C, which remember is a small group).

+1 Logic

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Casual stuff now? NOW? Nintendo has always put out casual stuff. They were never interested in being a hardcore game developer, at least outside of Japan. Nothing has changed.

If there were another company making Smash Bros style fighting games, I'd switch. Unfortunately nothing else comes anywhere remotely close.

Umm... everything that HAS come close almost always falls under one of 2 lines.

1. Japan Only
2. Terrible.

DMTV is both XD

You can't even ring out characters in that game...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

There are four parties as given in your example. Players who

A: Play Brawl and like Melee
B: Play Brawl and dislike Melee
C: Play Melee and like Brawl
D: Play Melee and dislike Brawl

However, you stated that B and C do not exist. This leaves

A: Play Brawl and like Melee
D: Play Melee and dislike Brawl

Each game receives on point for every person who plays it, as well as a point for every player who plays the other but likes it. By your reasoning, Melee and Brawls points are a 2:1 ratio.

I think you'll understand the connotations.

You should make an E.
E. People who play Brawl and Melee.

Actually I should have an F for me.
F. Plays all Smash.

 

[CloneHat]

That's true.

But it's irrelevant to the example given by teluoborg.

 

[teluoborg]

I was gonna post some more trolling responses when I read that

Group A has no complaints as they like both games. Group B does not like Brawl, so when the topic arises they complain about it. Therefor most of the posts you see regarding brawl will be people complaining about it, as people won't openly praise it unless in it's defense from said attacks (after all, people don't post the positives of any situation unless it comes into question). Here on the melee forums, such defenses are rare as it would require a player who likes brawl to be in the melee forums (they would be part of group C, which remember is a small group).

I think I get it now : if some melee players hate brawl so much it's because they can't ignore it.
Just like how old people can't ignore the internet or cellular phones, I find it quite funny and sad at the same time.

You've won guys (kinda), I'll let you at peace.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

I'm sorry but I have no idea on where these arguments are going...

 

[Deleted member]

*cracks knuckles

What you are saying here implies that there are many people who would do better to play with a defensive style in melee rather than offensive. Before I infer that point and do a rebuttal to it, and you say "I never said that", I want to ask, are you saying that many players in melee would do better to play campy/defensive?

I would say so.

Well then you sir (and I think Black Mantis too) are making an extremely bold statement which relies on you having a great understanding of the game. Saying that a fundamental part of the current Melee metagame is wrong is quite a bold statement to make. While I hate to use arguments from authority, I'm quite sure that neither you nor I can say that any players in the top 50 of Melee are "doing it wrong" (unless it's something super obvious).

Oh I see. Brawl gets less points so it deserves to be hated.

Sorry for no understanding your logic.

Also I didn't say that B and C don't exist, but most of the time :
1-if one player likes both games he'll be playing brawl on a competitive level
2-if one player hates one of the two games, he'll be playing melee on a competitive level and hating brawl

Edit :
Yeah, but here you are still keeping the pile of dung in the corner of your room just to rant about how it smells. For 3 freaking years.

There are many reasons why people in the Melee (and somewhat in the 64) community hate brawl. It should be noted though that only a small part of the community hates on brawl, even though lots of people hate it.

1. When people outside of the smash community think of smash, they think of Brawl. Because brawl is an easier game to play (as pretty much everybody in this thread from both sides has said), this makes playing competitive smash seem far far less impressive to outsiders.

2. Brawl players get more money than Melee players, because they get bigger tournaments.

3. Brawl players have MLG (which with recent happenings in big MLG tournaments may not necessarily be considered a good thing).

4. Brawl takes in most of the new people, simply because it's easier.

5. Many (myself included) consider Brawl to be a slap in the face of competitive Melee/64.

I would list more, but yeah, that's why lots of people hate on Brawl, outside of the fact that they generally dislike the game.

Yeah, it sucks, yeah it's petty, yeah it's stupid, but that's why people hate Brawl.

Edit: Wow, that had nothing to do with the post I quoted. /fail

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

HAtE balWr cAusE NO ROY, he haS TeH Ph1r3, WhERe TEh pH1r3?????

 

[Tero.]

Yooo, I don't care about the topic of this thread, but

nah thats tero being gay.

<3

 

[Black Mantis]

Tero too good

 

[Deleted member]

Yooo, I don't care about the topic of this thread, but

<3

YOU!

More time has been wasted in this thread because of you than the time you stalled in the matches you played.

<3, your matches are funny.

 

[Black Mantis]

What you are saying here implies that there are many people who would do better to play with a defensive style in melee rather than offensive. Before I infer that point and do a rebuttal to it, and you say "I never said that", I want to ask, are you saying that many players in melee would do better to play campy/defensive?

I'm saying that people would complain as much as they do about it in brawl.