Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[BSP]

close call ( while in danger), pretty lucky, and lucky day all make enemies miss. Last Stand lowers all damage received while in danger by 1/2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPeFkG0U08Q

Not only can sonic fly (lol), shrink (how would you hit him that small?), he has instant speed boosts, and an INFINITE lightning shield...how can he lose now? He can slow down time indefinitely as well. He should draw with Ike now, if he has an infinite defense.

Unless someone proves that Ganon can be harmed, I won't need to get involved.

Oh, and, by the way, Ganon's not "too slow".

Yes he is. Everyone vs. Sonic is too slow.

How can Ganon (or even ike) finish/hurt Sonic if he has an infinite Lightning shield? I don't think Sonic can hurt Ganon though.

@missingno

Technically, it's still a game mech since it doesn't have an explanation and has only been in multiple games.

 

[missingnomaster]

So as soon as Sonic's Lightning Shield would disappear, he could get another one?

 

[BSP]

The guy says if you get hit, you can just make it re appear.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Being able to harm isn't the only solution to win. There's a ton of other stuff Ganon can do, but let me take it one step at a time.

Ganon can just warp Sonic into another dimension.

 

[Crystanium]

Being able to harm isn't the only solution to win. There's a ton of other stuff Ganon can do, but let me take it one step at a time.

Ganon can just warp Sonic into another dimension.

Proof of this, please? And how would Ganondorf be able to get a hold of Sonic?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I don't have the proper equipments to provide you proof at the moment, so you'll have to wait.

Well, how will Ganon get a hold of Sonic? Simple. Though, not much evidence has been provided of this, Ganon can transform himself into twilight particles (which seemed to & did go very fast in the game), and chase to possess Sonic from there (though, this doesn't have anything to do with dimensions).

Edit: I'll provide more in a bit.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ There might be a way that Sonic can stand a chance against Ganondorf. May not be a major chance but anyone has any good info of Sonic And The Black Knight? I would play that game, but I couldn't stomach the gameplay, any power up's to mention? †

 

[Ray_Kalm]

By the way, just so everyone knows and understands; Unlike Link & Zelda, there is only one recurring Ganon.

So, that means, Ganon gets powers from each and every individual game he's been in.

And I'd also like to add, Ganon has the power to make any one wish he desires.

 

[missingnomaster]

I believe full Triforce was banned. Or at least the wishing from it was.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Wishing is allowed, as what the OP states. Wishing to win is what's banned.

I never brang up wishing before myself in Ganon's previous matches because, well, he never needed it.

 

[Crystanium]

By the way, just so everyone knows and understands; Unlike Link & Zelda, there is only one recurring Ganon.

So, that means, Ganon gets powers from each and every individual game he's been in.

And I'd also like to add, Ganon has the power to make any one wish he desires.

We know that, Ray_Kalm. However, I do question assisted abilities. For example, was Ganondorf capable of using Twili magic at his own volition, or did he need a connection with Zant? If he needed a connection with Zant, then I'm not sure if assisted magic would be permitted. But, that's just me. As for wishes, is this any one wish dependent on the complete Triforce? I would like a few sources for these, if it's not too much to ask. I'm not saying Sonic will win. I don't think he has the proper weapons to defeat Ganondorf, and I was leaning on a tie here if Ganondorf cannot catch Sonic.

WhatIsRaizen?, if you don't mind, will you just make the Samus vs. Mario a tie? I know it's not something I agree with, and I think PowerBomb was going for a tie as well, but both sides who support one of the two characters are unrelenting. I'd rather just get it out of the way than to wait on it anymore.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'd provide you all the proof you want, in a bit though, hold on.

Zant was literally defeated when Ganondorf uses twilight magic. He taught himself how to use it (when he was warped to the Twilight Realm), in the first place anyways.

And yes, Ganon has gotten the full triforce.

 

[Crystanium]

I'd provide you all the proof you want, in a bit though, hold on.

Zant was literally defeated when Ganondorf uses twilight magic. He taught himself how to use it (when he was warped to the Twilight Realm), in the first place anyways.

And yes, Ganon has gotten the full triforce.

All right. It's cool. This thread isn't going anywhere, Ray_Kalm. I wonder what Ganondorf will wish for? Haha!

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Dryn provided me with a new set of rules, which I added to the first page.

Auto-Restored HP
When a character loses all of his or her health, but is still alive and his or her health is automatically restored, it is not considered defeat. See Game Over.

Example 1: In Kid Icarus, if Pit has a Bottle or Barrel, and if his health meter is depleted, he still continues to do whatever it was he was doing and the Bottle or Barrel automatically restore a bar of his health meter.

Example 2: In Super Metroid, when Samus loses all her Energy Tanks, as long as the Reserve Tanks are set on Auto, her Energy Tanks will be restored.

Fierce Deity's Location Limitation
Items, abilities, or anything else that are used in one specific location, and cannot be used anywhere else in-game are not permitted.

Example: The Fierce Deity mask can be used only against bosses, but not outside of boss rooms. The same is with the Giant's mask. Therefore, items or abilities that are limited to specific locations cannot be used.

Game Over
K.O., resurrection, retreating, being sent into another dimension, and anything similar in nature is considered defeat. Retreating, however, if used to move to a safe place is not under this restriction.

Example 1: In The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, when Link loses all his health, he falls to his death. However, a fairy is instantly released thereafter, bringing Link back to life. This is considered resurrecting, which is considered defeat, because he already lost the battle.

Example 2: In Pokémon, when the trainer's Pokémon faint, he is sent to the Pokémon Center. Even though death did not occur, anything similar to this situation is considered defeat.

Infinite Dimensional Cape
Stalling is not permitted. It is considered defeat.

Example 1: In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, from which this name came, Infinite Dimensional Cape is not allowed. It is stalling.

Example 2: In the Kirby series, Kirby can acquire the Stone ability, and during this time, he becomes invincible and immobile. Because he is incapable of attacking his opponent, by definition he loses, since he is stalling.

Explanation: There is a 30 second restriction to this. This does not mean that one may stall for 29 seconds and then attack, only to stall for another 29 seconds. If this occurs, the one doing this loses. If one decides to stall for 29 seconds, the second time this is attempted, the one doing this will lose automatically. If a particular ability is not used to stall, it is permitted.

GameShark Hunting
Cheats, tricks, passwords, glitches, exploits, bugs, or anything else of any kind that is similar in nature are not permitted. This, therefore, means that any type of cheat or whatever cannot be used, whether it was performed in-game or used with a cheat device.

Example 1: In The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, in the battle against Ganondorf, Bottles can be used to hit back the magic sphere that Ganondorf casts.

Example 2: In Super Metroid, there is a glitch Samus can use called the Spacetime Beam, which reverses the game. This cannot be used to reverse actions of Samus' opponents in a match, as that would make it unfair for her opponents. This is also a glitch, and therefore is not allowed.

Scan Visor Offline
The two opposing characters are not aware of the other's weakness(es), items, or abilities. See also Scan Visor Online.

Example: In the Metroid Prime trilogy, Samus used the Scan Visor to collect information about her opponent.

Scan Visor Online
The two opposing characters are aware of the other's weakness(es), items, or abilities. See also Scan Visor Offline.

Example: In the Metroid Prime trilogy, Samus can use the Scan Visor to find out her opponent's weakness(es), or what weapons they have, and so on.

 

[Crystanium]

I didn't know it would be added. @_@ You might want to remove one of the Scan Visors, though. One is Scan Visor Offline, and the other is Scan Visor Online. They're contradictory, so one can only be used.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Okay so here's the evidence you wanted Dyrn:

Triforce

One day, quite by accident, a gate to the Golden Land of the Triforce was opened by a gang of thieves skilled in the black arts. This land was like no other. In the gathering twilight, the Triforce shone from its resting place high above the world. In a long running battle, the leader of the thieves fought his way past his followers in a lust for the Golden Power. After vanquishing his own followers, the leader stood triumphant over the Triforce and grasped it with his blood- stained hands. He heard a whispered voice: "If thou has a strong desire or dream, wish for it..." And in reply, the roaring laughter of the brigand leader echoed across time and space and even reached the far-off land of Hyrule. The name of this king of thieves is Ganondorf Dragmire, but he is known by his alias, Mandrag Ganon, which means Ganon of the Enchanted Thieves.

When assembled, the Triforce allows the owner to make and be granted as many wishes as they want.

Ganon HAS wished something from the Triforce before, but he's only done so once. In "A Link to The Past", Ganon wished to rule Hyrule, which was granted to him, but was all redone by Link's wish after he had defeated Ganon. In other games like WindWaker & Ocarina of Time, Ganon never got the complete triforce.

For ages after the creation of Hyrule, the Triforce rested within its temple, the Temple of Light in the Sacred Realm, untouched by mortal hands.[4] The Goddesses ordained the Triforce as Hyrule’s providence, the ‘True Force’ to govern all; an ultimate source of power.[5][6] Of all the powerful mystical forces in the realm of Hyrule, none compare to the Triforce; thus, whoever claims the Triforce gains virtual omnipotence, their power, wisdom or courage dwarfed only by the Goddesses themselves.[7] The Triforce ultimately determines Hyrule's destiny, such that if a person with a righteous heart claims the Triforce, Hyrule will enter into a golden age of peace and prosperity. If a person with a wicked heart claims the Triforce, the realm will inevitably fall into an age of darkness. However, it is prophesied that if one with an evil heart were to claim the Triforce, a Hero is destined to be born.[8][9]

The Triforce contains the essence of the Goddesses, but unlike the Goddesses, it does not discriminate between those who are good or evil. It grants the wishes of whoever touches it, regardless of their motives.[10] However, if the one who takes the Triforce from it’s resting place within the Sacred Realm doesn't have a balance of Courage, Wisdom and Power within their heart, the Triforce will separate into its three parts, and the one who touched the Triforce will be left with only the Triforce aspect in which they most believed.[11] To gain the full power of the Triforce, the one who touched the Triforce must seek the two lost triangles and reconstruct it.

The Triforce grants AS MANY wishes as the owner desires. So, I guess that makes Ganon even more broken. Ganon only had the complete Triforce once, but he still had it. Just as how Bowser lost his Starrod, Ganon lost the complete Triforce. Nothing's stopping him from making wishes here.

The Triforce is first revealed as a divine manifestation of the Goddesses' power in A Link to the Past. Bestowed upon Hyrule upon their departure, it lay hidden in the fabled Golden Land until the evil thief Ganondorf and his minions broke the seal into the hidden land.[2][13] Within the Golden Land, the Triforce has the power to change the shape of anyone who enters from the outside. The cruel and evil Ganon was transformed into a hideous pig-like creature, while later in the game the innocent and pure Link was changed into a pink rabbit.[40]
Upon murdering his companions and claiming the Triforce for his own, Ganon used its power to turn the Golden Land into the Dark World.[41] Raising an army of monsters to assault the land of Hyrule, Ganon was nearly successful in spreading his evil over all the land, but was stopped when the Knights of Hyrule and the Seven Wise Men sealed him in the Dark World.[14] Still in possession of the Triforce, Ganon used Agahnim to crack the seal between worlds by teleporting the seven maidens, who were descended from the Wise Men, one by one into the Dark World, sealing them in crystals and creating a portal between the worlds.[42][43] After obtaining the Master Sword and rescuing the seven maidens, Link defeated Ganon and recovered the complete Triforce. Instructed by the Triforce to take it with a wish in his heart, Link used its power to cleanse the evil that had been done by Ganon; healing those who had been wounded by his evil, restoring the Dark World to the Golden Land, and restoring peace to Hyrule.[44]

Wait a minute, funny how this never occured to me. Not only has Ganon possessed the complete triforce, so has Link, which means both Link and Ganon are able to make as much wishes they desire. We have to redo all of Link's matches, he may have the power to defeat Samus now.

 

[the king of murder]

Ganondorf doesn´t need the Triforce to beat Sonic. He can simply capture him in a crystale like he did with Zelda. Sonic´s speed doesn´t matter. Also he can teleport and overpower Sonic with his powerful magic-blast.

P.S
I know my grammar sucks. I´m working on that.

 

[PowerBomb]

Ganondorf doesn´t need the Triforce to beat Sonic. He can simply capture him in a crystale like he did with Zelda. Sonic´s speed doesn´t matter. Also he can teleport and overpower Sonic with his powerful magic-blast.

P.S
I know my grammar sucks. I´m working on that.

So, proof that the Crystal would work on Sonic? Maybe it only works on Zelda/princess characters. His magic balls aren't all that hard to dodge, although there are multiple variations of it throughout the series.

Sonic's speed DOES matter. The speed at which Sonic is traveling is really too fast to be caught up with in a single teleport.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganon can wish for Sonic to have no speed at all.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Not only can he teleport and trap Sonic, he can also possess Sonic (see the first boss stage in TP; Puppet Zelda).

Basically Ganon only loses against the Links. Anyone he ties with he can wish to have a weapon to harm the enemy with, wish that the enemy is invincible no longer, that the enemy is caught in a time freeze or can't move, etc. Unless we're going by he can only wish for what he has wished for in the games (which is unreasonable).

The only problem I see now is Bowser, who has wishing abilities and invincibility on the same level as Ganon. That's when Ganon just possesses Bowser (unless invincibility protects you against things like that...I'm not sure. Possession is kind of different).

 

[the king of murder]

So, proof that the Crystal would work on Sonic? Maybe it only works on Zelda/princess characters. His magic balls aren't all that hard to dodge, although there are multiple variations of it throughout the series.

Sonic's speed DOES matter. The speed at which Sonic is traveling is really too fast to be caught up with in a single teleport.

Well you are right about the speed. But why should it only work on Zelda charas. There´s no proof that it doesn´t work on Sonic and vice-versa. But I agree that Ganondorf is slow.
I just wonder how Ike won over Sonic.

 

[missingnomaster]

Ganondorf is actually pretty fast. If you remember towards the end of TP, he defeated Fused Shadows Midna, took her crown, found his horse, and teleported to where Link and Zelda were, all in under 10 seconds.

That takes skill.

 

[Crystanium]

Okay so here's the evidence you wanted Dyrn:

Triforce

One day, quite by accident, a gate to the Golden Land of the Triforce was opened by a gang of thieves skilled in the black arts. This land was like no other. In the gathering twilight, the Triforce shone from its resting place high above the world. In a long running battle, the leader of the thieves fought his way past his followers in a lust for the Golden Power. After vanquishing his own followers, the leader stood triumphant over the Triforce and grasped it with his blood- stained hands. He heard a whispered voice: "If thou has a strong desire or dream, wish for it..." And in reply, the roaring laughter of the brigand leader echoed across time and space and even reached the far-off land of Hyrule. The name of this king of thieves is Ganondorf Dragmire, but he is known by his alias, Mandrag Ganon, which means Ganon of the Enchanted Thieves.

When assembled, the Triforce allows the owner to make and be granted as many wishes as they want.

Ganon HAS wished something from the Triforce before, but he's only done so once. In "A Link to The Past", Ganon wished to rule Hyrule, which was granted to him, but was all redone by Link's wish after he had defeated Ganon. In other games like WindWaker & Ocarina of Time, Ganon never got the complete triforce.

The Triforce grants AS MANY wishes as the owner desires. So, I guess that makes Ganon even more broken. Ganon only had the complete Triforce once, but he still had it. Just as how Bowser lost his Starrod, Ganon lost the complete Triforce. Nothing's stopping him from making wishes here.
Wait a minute, funny how this never occured to me. Not only has Ganon possessed the complete triforce, so has Link, which means both Link and Ganon are able to make as much wishes they desire. We have to redo all of Link's matches, he may have the power to defeat Samus now.

But the two have only done so once, and there are various Link incarnations, therefore, there is no need to redo anything. Taking the Triforce was simply a plot mechanic. Nothing more, nothing less. Ganondorf has had the Triforce of Power more than once, but not the entire Triforce more than once. It seems to me you're jumping ahead of yourself. In order for Ganondorf to have the complete Triforce, he needs to find Link and Zelda and take it from them. But that would require Link and Zelda to be on the battlefield. Your source says so. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it doesn't work that way here. By definition, that's an assisted item. Assistance isn't allowed.

 

[the king of murder]

Yes, but Sonic is too fast for Ganondorf. But he can trap Sonic in a Barrier like he did with Link in TP or OOT.
Then Sonic has to face Ganondorf with no escaping. The area will be too small for Sonic. I´m sure Ganon/dorf has an attack large enough to cover the field. Sonic is pretty munch hopeless. And attcking Ganondorf would be futile bc he has no weapon to harm him.

 

[missingnomaster]

Super sonic can fly

 

[Ray_Kalm]

You're misunderstanding Dryn. Ganon & Link both have had the complete triforce, not just part(s) of it, but they've only had so in one game.

For Link to be able to wish, we'll have to use the Link from Alttp.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Ganon assembled the Triforce on his own in Windwaker also. He just didn't get to wish from it. So he's wished from it once, but assembled it twice. And in Windwaker, he actually did fight Link and Zelda.

 

[Crystanium]

Yes, but Sonic is too fast for Ganondorf. But he can trap Sonic in a Barrier like he did with Link in TP or OOT.

What are you talking about? Both Link incarnations are incapable of reaching the speed of sound, supersonic speeds, hypersonic speeds, and even light speeds like transluminal, superluminal, hyperluminal. Sonic is also a very high jumper.

And attcking Ganondorf would be futile bc he has no weapon to harm him.

Of course, which is why I see this leaning to a tie if Ganondorf cannot catch Sonic.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganon assembled the Triforce on his own in Windwaker also. He just didn't get to wish from it. So he's wished from it once, but assembled it twice. And in Windwaker, he actually did fight Link and Zelda.

Triforce grants multiple wishes.

Ganon stole the Triforce in Alttp, and then wished around 5 times.

 

[Crystanium]

You're misunderstanding Dryn. Ganon & Link both have had the complete triforce, not just part(s) of it, but they've only had so in one game.

For Link to be able to wish, we'll have to use the Link from Alttp.

Yes, one game. It was a plot mechanic to have the storyline go somewhere. Otherwise, it would be pointless to play that particular Zelda game. When Link had the complete Triforce, that was just to restore Hyrule back to its original state before the entire mess occurred. You disregarded the fact that all three must be present, and from what it seems, Link and Zelda have often times been incapacitated before Ganondorf could strip the Triforce pieces from them. In OoT, Zelda was in that crystal, and Link was affected by those "dark waves." In WW, Zelda was unconscious, and Link got beat up. It's an assisted item.

Ganon assembled the Triforce on his own in Windwaker also. He just didn't get to wish from it. So he's wished from it once, but assembled it twice. And in Windwaker, he actually did fight Link and Zelda.

Nah. Link and Zelda were present. It wasn't a complete Triforce. It is an assisted item, as it has been shown that Link and Zelda must be present in order for the Triforce to become complete. Ray_Kalm's source even said so. But hey, it's good to know that anyone besides Ganondorf was able to wish for anything.

 

[Incurable_Necrophile]

he may have the power to defeat Samus now.

Link always could beat Samus. The entire argument in her favour is one massive appeal to novelty fallacy.

Edit: is Samus v.s. Ganondorf up yet? That'll be short.

 

[Ganonsburg]

So you're saying the one time Ganon gets it on his own, it doesn't count, and that the other time when he actually fought for it it also doesn't count? If we aren't going by the games, what are we going by? Rules that you pulled from another forum?

I think that Samus getting armor from the Chozo is a game plot mechanic, and it's an assisted item. (Fun game, I like it. If we keep going, we can completely invalidate every character!)

Edit:
Ah, okay Ray. I didn't know that. But by once, I meant in one game. I was more focusing on the number of times he's assembled it.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Dryn, you're making no sense.

Ganon wished to rule Hyrule the moment he laid his hands on the Triforce in Alttp. Link and Zelda weren't around then.

Don't just go around and presume stuff.

 

[Crystanium]

Link always could beat Samus. The entire argument in her favour is one massive appeal to novelty fallacy.

No it's not. Samus' weapons are more efficient than Link's weapons. I'll take a gun over a bow and arrow any day. Why? Not because it's modern. Rather, because it contains more ammunition than a bow and arrow, and after I fire one round, I don't have to set up another bullet like you would with a bow and arrow. It also fires faster and has better range. FN P90 > Bow and Arrow. Arm Cannon with infinite ammunition > Bow with Limited Arrows. That's not an appeal to novelty. We've been through this before.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'd have to agree with Incurable_Necrophile.

Link has the ability to wish now.

 

[Incurable_Necrophile]

No it's not. Samus' weapons are more efficient than Link's weapons.

Not by feats.

I'll take a gun over a bow and arrow any day. Why? Not because it's modern. Rather, because it contains more ammunition than a bow and arrow, and after I fire one round, I don't have to set up another bullet like you would with a bow and arrow

And if your gun fires slow moving bubbles compared to said bow? Which has arrows capable of freezing volcanoes, or melting glaciers, or incinerating enemies?

It also fires faster and has better range. FN P90 > Bow and Arrow. Arm Cannon with infinite ammunition > Bow with Limited Arrows. That's not an appeal to novelty. We've been through this before.

Except we're not comparing a gun and a bow from real life, we're comparign Samus' arm cannon to Link's arrows which are infinitely more destructive.

Edit: Kalm, even without wishing Link's arrows alone have always outdone Samus' arm cannon, let alone his other gear.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Incurable, there's no need for a argument if your arguing for a character with unlimited wishing abilities.

Link > Samus.

 

[Crystanium]

I love the fanboyism in here now. I won't touch this thread anymore. Believe what you all wish.

 

[Incurable_Necrophile]

It's the princible of the thing. aLttP Link has *always* won hands down, it's why no one ever debated it.

Edit: Lol@Dryn calling us fanboys when he has no argument. |: Ironic.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

No ones gonna stop you Dryn. It really isn't anyone's fault that your character can't beat another. No need to cry over it.

Raizen, you'll need to edit Link's MUs.