Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Crystanium]

☆ Aww come on, you even played the game. )= ☆

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wxC5Th2AOk&feature=related

It looks to me like Bowser is panicking. He's not being attacked. It's not an attack. Also, Clock Out takes about 10 seconds to even set off. That's totally unreliable. It also lasts for only 3 turns, depending on if that bar was filled up. How long is "three turns"?

Unless she can be invincible to an effect that goes beyond the laws of physics. There hasn't been an enemy in Paper Mario that just froze in like they been frozen my an ice attack animation like Pokemon Colosseum.

You probably have never seen the show Heroes. There's Daphne and some other fellow who, when Hiro froze time, kept running. The time freeze didn't affect them. Now, I am not going to say this will happen for Samus, but if someone is moving, and they are frozen in time, it doesn't mean that once time unfreezes, that they'll not continue what they were doing. Consider this example. Let's say you're watching a movie. You click the pause button and go on to get something to drink. Once you come back, you unpause, and everything that was happening before, continues to go on. When someone is frozen in time, and then unfrozen, they aren't aware that time froze. So, if Mario stops Samus with his Clock Out, she'll be running still when she is unfrozen.

If she goes Hypermode while the time is stopped, that could in danger her of being corrupted, stats effects still applies normally to the enemy frozen in time, (according to the gameplay of Paper Mario), for example, Mario could use Fire Drive on a foe that's frozen in time which automatically makes you burn by the first hit. The effect goes on normally as the enemy turn would. As soon as she's in Corrupt Hypermode, she is vulnerable to attacks. Since I'm using the Paper Mario TTYD game, it's called the Boo Sheet which activates as soon as it's shown and not watch him put on the gel, lol.

Perhaps according to the way Paper Mario's engine works. We're not in Paper Mario's engine, however. So, if Samus is in Hyper Mode, she won't become corrupted, because time is frozen, and something cannot continue if time is frozen. Continuation and time freeze are contradictory. Also, what joy. I mean, it's not like Mario will be able to harm Samus when she's using the Speed Booster anyway.

Samus normal shot won't do much damage even with a head shot, (unless it's a plasma beam), a full charge blast head shot would do a lot of damage though, but as you know it takes at least 2-3 seconds to charge up and shoot, by the time Mario would have dodged it by now.

Sorry to disappoint you, but none of the beams take 2 or 3 seconds to charge up. They don't even take 1 second to charge up. Here's a video of the Plasma Beam being used. Watch, starting at 0:55. It's not even a second for the Plasma Beam to charge up.

Samus would recieve half damage of Imperialist (only OHKO headshot weapon she has)
Life Shroom brings Mario back.

I honestly do not care about Life Shrooms. Death to resurrection, KO, retreat are instant defeat to me.

Then wouldn't another Imperialist headshot kill Samus?

Does Mario have an imperialist? Can Mario even hit something going at 5,519 ft./s?

Where does this thread stand on with counter attacks?
Mario has a perfect counter in TTYD that makes Mario recieve zero damage from attacks while he counters with a hit.[/COLOR]

What good are counters if you can't harm the one you're trying to counter? How is Mario going to counter anything Samus uses and use it against Samus? Reminds me of Link's Mirror Shield "reflecting" a Missile. Please.

 

[Kewkky]

If the Stop Watch is classified as immobilizing, then Samus can just force her way out of the immobilization. She's been shown to be frozen AND encased in solid dark matter, and she just gets out (in the game, you speed the process by mashing the jump button, but it still shows that she can force herself to be mobile).

If you mean that the time-stopping effect immobilizes her, then I agree, since she can't do anything against time-altering foes as far as her canon has shown us. If you freeze her in time, though, she freezes in time so she won't get corrupted. If she is still conscious of what's happening, then she could start and stop her hypermode whenever she desired in 15-second MAX intervals so that Mario can't do anything to her while she's 'immobilized'.

So, what's it gonna be? Mario stops her in time completely, making it so that she doesn't get corrupted? Or does it just "immobilize" her, and allow her to struggle her way out?

 

[justaway12]

@Viper's video: She's talking about the boom on the floor.

It's not actual freezing, we said in the last page, so status effects still work.

I don't really see the point in arguing the rest.

@Kewkky: I doubt she could struggle her way out, I'm no to sure of the complcation, hell, I've never played the game =/
But this isn't really freezing, I think time has something to do with it though, hence the name.

 

[Kewkky]

If Samus is immobilized, then she can struggle her way out, period. Her suit's made to get her out of "immobile" situations, like encased in dark matter, frozen in ice, hacked by enemies, attempts at controlling her (when the Ing try to possess her), life-sucking scenarios (when Metroids latch onto her, she can get them off while any other living life forms can't), etc... She can struggle out of that immobilization the same way she struggles out of other immobilizations.

And, I still think she freezes in time. Stop watches and Clock-Outs only work against opponents, so only THEY will be frozen in time while everything else happens. Samus' phazon is a part of her, so her phazon will also freeze, making it so she maintains her invincibility as she's frozen, indefinitely.

 

[justaway12]

I do think it has something to do with time, frozen or not, anyway I have a question for anybody who played M&LiT, Mario & Luigi can carry 99 blue peppers, right? Though if that's true, it's going to be a pain to bring into RL =/

 

[Lord Viper]

It looks to me like Bowser is panicking. He's not being attacked. It's not an attack. Also, Clock Out takes about 10 seconds to even set off. That's totally unreliable. It also lasts for only 3 turns, depending on if that bar was filled up. How long is "three turns"?

☆ Bowser looks like that when he is attacked. Don't tell me you haven't played the game? =P ☆

☆ Clock Out and Stop Watch has the same effect except Clock Out takes more time and skill to use, but it's a Star move which means he can use it again depending on the meter. It's hard to tell how long it last if it's not turn based though. =/ ☆

☆ So the battle is not based on gameplay.... ? ☆ [/font]

Perhaps according to the way Paper Mario's engine works. We're not in Paper Mario's engine, however. So, if Samus is in Hyper Mode, she won't become corrupted, because time is frozen, and something cannot continue if time is frozen. Continuation and time freeze are contradictory. Also, what joy. I mean, it's not like Mario will be able to harm Samus when she's using the Speed Booster anyway.

☆ Why not? Did the OP change to rules while I wasn't looking to saying that Paper Mario's frozen time should be like Sonic Adventure 2? )= ☆

Sorry to disappoint you, but none of the beams take 2 or 3 seconds to charge up. They don't even take 1 second to charge up. Here's a video of the Plasma Beam being used. Watch, starting at 0:55. It's not even a second for the Plasma Beam to charge up.

☆ That kind of looks like a regular shot to me. It looked like a charged shot after 0:55. =/ ☆

@Viper's video: She's talking about the boom on the floor.

It's not actual freezing, we said in the last page, so status effects still work.

I don't really see the point in arguing the rest.

☆ I do blame my fanness of loli's, shy and tsundere female characters for some members confusing me as a she. =P ☆

☆ Also I see your point. ☆

 

[Kewkky]

Samus is immobilized due to the stopwatch due to the item's effect of stopping its targets in their tracks by manipulating time. In simple terms... It stops time.

Immobilized? Yes, she will be immobilized due to being frozen in time. She can't do anything because she's frozen in time. And remember, this coining of the word "frozen" doesn't point at a cold-temperature version of "frozen", but more like that the reazon she's immobilized is because some external force is forcing her whole being to not be able to do anything, and this external force is manipulating "time" to stop her dead in her tracks.

So, she still retains her invincibilities when stopwatches are brought to a real-time fighting world.

 

[PowerBomb]

So is revival by Life Shroom = defeat?

 

[Kewkky]

I think we should define sooner or later how long turn-oriented items and effects last in real-time settings. It's true that how long they last is rooted in the turn-after-turn mechanics of tun-based games, but when we do matches like this one (Samus vs Mario), it would be good to know how long it lasts.

If we never come with a concrete answer for this, we should BAN THE TURN-BASED ITEMS AND EFFECTS due to them being deeply rooted to a mechanic which is trashed when the character is pulled into a real-world setting! >:D


Were there stop watches in SPM? I forgot.

 

[REL38]

@Dryn

The effect of the badge auto-hits half the recieved damage from Mario to Samus.
He wouldn't need to worry about aiming the hit at all. Much less having a weapon capable of hitting light speed Samus.
It auto-hits.
Just like PSi Counter.

But I was corrected that it only works on DIRECT hits so it won't work on any beams :/

Super Counter would negate any recieved damage from Samus. It always works on physical attacks.
Energy based attacks are what I'm unsure about :/

So is revival by Life Shroom = defeat?

It is to Dryn.

But I don't agree with that at all.

 

[Crystanium]

☆ Bowser looks like that when he is attacked. Don't tell me you haven't played the game? =P ☆

But he's not taking any damage from the Clock Out. Therefore, it's not an attack.

☆ Clock Out and Stop Watch has the same effect except Clock Out takes more time and skill to use, but it's a Star move which means he can use it again depending on the meter. It's hard to tell how long it last if it's not turn based though. =/ ☆

I still think it's unreliable when it takes 10 seconds for it to take effect.

☆ So the battle is not based on gameplay.... ? ☆

I am not sure what you mean.

☆ Why not? Did the OP change to rules while I wasn't looking to saying that Paper Mario's frozen time should be like Sonic Adventure 2? )= ☆

There's no point with going for one character's game engine. If time freezes, everything in space is frozen. If the act of Hyper Mode is going on, and time is frozen, then so is the act of Hyper Mode. It's still there, but no action is being taken place. Space and time are interconnected. What happens in Paper Mario might happen in Paper Mario, but that's not how it would work in reality. Samus is no more subject to the Paper Mario engine than she is to the Pokémon types, i.e. her being a "Steel type."

☆ That kind of looks like a regular shot to me. It looked like a charged shot after 0:55. =/ ☆

Which is why I told you to begin at 0:55, so you could see after. I don't want you to wonder when this was going to occur, so I told you the closest time to start at so you wouldn't have to spend your time on unnecessary scenes. This isn't the first time I checked this, however. I saw a video of Samus charging up her Power Beam, and it still didn't take 1 second.

So is revival by Life Shroom = defeat?

If a character was defeated the first time, what makes you think the character is going to win after being resurrected? I just don't agree with this, because the character already lost. I think WhatIsRaizen? should add this rule, especially since no previous characters have had this situation occur. Better to resolve it now than to go on without resolving it until later.

 

[_clinton]

It's the Internet. Bias happens. It's not an excuse to use it yourself.

You seem to miss my point about my ranting...which is I'm hardly being biased at all...for one thing…I'm at least willing to look at what the characters actually have!

God…at least I don’t think Supersonic speed means invincibility like everyone else does in this thread…

..What?

I think you actually need to look at the posts you are responding to in the future a bit better…

Here is part of a post from Kewkky…

Oh, and interviews aren't in the games, so they don't count.

So…do you agree with him on that…because if you actually look at what you responded to with me…

So you have more authority to call things like that? You have more authority to say who can do what and who can't do what? You either know hardly anything about half the stuff you argue or are too biased to properly argue for it.

You make it look like you sort of agree with him…or something close to that…so…Do you agree with him on this subject? I don't think you do and it's only a misunderstanding...but I just want to make sure...

You can immediately get another one in Milky Way Wishes, and the hammer throw itself does a crapload of damage.

God…are you even familiar with how the game play works in Milky Way Wishes?
Kirby can’t copy things in that with his normal copy ability…anything he eats just “tastes good” it doesn’t give him a power…
Milky Way Wishes has Kirby having access to Copy Skill Deluxe (or whatever they are) only as a "game play innovation"…sort of like how Revenge of Meta Knight has a “timer” in all of the levels…or how one of the games is a "racing game" of some sort...or the badge system in the paper Mario games...again...how come Mario needs 1/2 BPs to know how to throw a hammer...but if you take them off...he forgets how to? Stuff like the game being an RPG, FPS, Platformer is clearly a game mech people...and something like "equip" shouldn't apply to it (so I'm aware that counts for the Mother games as well...with very few exceptions in case you don't get that)

In no way/shape or form does it imply that Kirby could do that outside of that game play mech.

Kirby has been shown to store things in his belly canon wise though I guess…hell the fact that he eats his foes and they turn into nothingness is also just a mech. though...I've got two examples:

The Squeak Squad members for example can be eaten when they are beat…but they keep coming back…Shadow Kirby in “Kirby and the Amazing Mirror” can be eaten (and even uses the same powers as Kirby…but he isn’t invincible when he uses them…even though he is a 100% copy of Kirby…what does that say about Kirby’s invincibility?) but he never really dies…

So these "copies" are supposed to be weaker than the original, right? How are they clear-cut?

I never said they were weaker…I said with very little exception which because it is less than 10% you can pass that off as bogus…they were copies…

Why should they not count exactly?

Well Smash Kirby shouldn’t count because it is only a reference to SSB…and you guys have already said that Smash isn’t canon you know…

Statistical. And 10% difference does not always mean weaker.

I didn’t say it was weaker…I only said that there is a 10% difference in the copy abilities of Kirby and the things he gets overall…

So there has never been a boss to obtain the Missile Launcher? Hive Totem anyone?

Last I checked those bees Samus was fighting didn’t absorb her suit…if anything Samus was just in the wrong area…

And this argument is invalid. With that logic, there would have to be at least 8-10 Power Bomb Guardians.

Ah no…in case you forgot the reason for this part of the debate…The stuff I’m talking about only gives an example of foes being able to absorb Samus’ suit or build off of it…which is true…and I don’t think having 200 boss fights for the same thing would be fun btw…

The Ing. (robbed her *** perfectly pretty much)
The X (able to mimic Chozo, missile, and energy tank upgrades…as well as robbed her ***)
The GF (MF shows that they working with her suit may have been a bad idea)
Space Pirates (tried to mimic Samus’ stuff…but it’s clear that they have issues…still do it though)

Have all build/tried to make things off of Samus’ gear…

Missiles are one of the best weapons in the series and are better than Power Bombs. Even if this is sarcastic, it fails.

Except canon wise according to Metroid Fusion…Power Bombs are stronger than missiles…Power bombs were given to Samus by the GF (because again…they look like ****ers in that game in case you don’t get that) in Metroid Fusion because the X were growing res. to Samus’ weapons…which included…Missiles, Super Missiles, AND Ice Missiles at the time…

Well I guess power isn’t everything though…after all…when you can fire off 10 missiles before just one power bomb…it does make the other one look better…

Because she actually uses Phazon? Phazon became part of Samus' actual being. It could be argued the dragon did all the work, and never did Lucas' bidding.

Ah no…the dragon is a part of Lucas’ being…how many times am I going to have to show the game script?
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/914622/42740

If the
one who calls forth the dragon has a wicked heart, the dragon's
power will obey him. If he so wishes, he could destroy anything and
everything.

The power listens to the person who controls it…

Lydia: Lucas, someone besides yourself removed this needle. The dragon
of darkness is reflected in his soul.

The dragon of darkness is reflected in the soul of the person pulling the needles…

Fligia: I'm sure you already
know this, but the Dragon of Darkness is said to be reflected in
the hearts of those who remove the needles. The strength within
strength, the darkness within darkness and the light within light,
will enter your soul. Please allow me to look into your eyes.
Thank you. Thank you, Lucas.

The power enters your soul…god…the person who made the game even says that they are linked…if you had actually looked at that…the reason Claus pulling the power of the dragon was a bad thing was because Claus was already dead in a way…The power of the dragon was at risk of doing that to everyone…

Just look at the background info for Mother 3…
Here is the interview (again…1st talked about at least on post 8768)…look it up and figure it out…
http://mother3.fobby.net/interview/

Well…it’s on this page actually…
http://mother3.fobby.net/interview/m3int_08.html

Uhm no clinton, they specifically state they couldn't remove her suit because the biological components were so integrated to her system, not because if they did so they'd kill her. Thus they had to surgically remove large portions out of her suit, altering her physical appearance dramatically (this refers to her suit though, she seems unchanged on the ending of fusion throughhout her life cycle *jpn). The x-parasites however were so embedded to her central nervous system at that point that they couldn't be removed safely.

Here is the bloody script for that game…
http://metroid.retropixel.net/metroid4/transcript.php

Samus: It then came to light that the organic components of my Power Suit had become so integrated with my system that it could not be removed while I was unconscious. Large portions of my suit had to be surgically removed, dramatically altering my physical appearance.

I’m aware of what it says…and I don’t think you get it…
How is something that becomes a “part” of you and not just armor a good thing?

The point of it being surgically removed was done so she wouldn’t die…because it is a part of her…removing it carelessly would be like removing parts of her…

And Clinton, samus has actually used phazon, thrice in fact, while Lucas still fails to show us the awesome power of dragon. Black screen provides us with no evidence of whatever that's happening and we cannot draw any facts or conclusions from that, which are the basis of this thread.

So…you think you need a picture to get a conclusion from…even though Itoi admits to Lucas using the power to do what he wanted with it (look up that interview I showed in this post…god it’s right above this post)

Do you need a picture to get a conclusion from this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7SppaweRAU

The ***** is ripping him apart 0:45-0:49…I guess it must not happen in that game because you don’t have a picture huh? You don’t have a game over at all huh?
I bet you people have never read any non-fiction books w/o pictures either based off what you are saying…

If Mario tries to remove Samus' suit, it's no different than ripping off someone's skin/limbs... And Mario has never done that in any games. Why should he be able to remove limbs/parts of someone's body in this thread?

Oh and I love how you think he has never removed parts of a foe (or that you need proof that he has done it…god people the guy throws castles with his bare hands!). I guess you got me there...except in Super Mario Sunshine...with certain boss fights dealing with ripping off tentacles of giant sea monsters...but whatever…next you’re going to say that wasn’t human or something like that so that doesn’t count huh?

Uhm, Samus already beat Luigi right? What difference is Mario? The best 'attack' for both characters are the Mega Mushrooms right? Samus outsped Luigi and then pwned him hard with zomg lasorz.

Which…totally makes sense…because Luigi has never had to deal with super speed and beam weapons/sarcasm

What can Mario do against that? He even has less HP and Defence in Mario & Luigi so he's even easier to defeat than Luigi...

If you can hit him…he is faster and stronger than Luigi…god his strength rivals Wario’s (which btw is a lot more than DK’s) and I’m pretty sure he is faster than Wario as well (which btw…Wario is only shown to “run like Sonic” when he wants to in his games)

Speed Booster would cut through the shields, and damage Lucas. PK Love would do nice damage to Samus yes, I won't say otherwise but she'd likely tank the hits. Besides, Lucas will need to heal constantly, as Samus's beams and missiles hurt.

How will speed booster cut through the shields? If anything they are an obstacle to overcome…because that is how they work in Mother in case you don’t get that… Speed booster can’t even cut through some normal foes…plus sense you started it…PK Love Omega rips a new one in like any normal foe and deals like 1/7th of most boss HP for damage despite heavy armor/barriers…what does Samus need to beat her bosses again? Like 50 missiles…all in a Achille's heel part Because their armor is too much for her weapons most of the time? But for whatever reason they have one spot open…See…I can biased and make Samus seem weak/make her foes look dumb as well from talking about game play mechs.

Also…how are Samus’ beams and missiles any different than what Lucas has had to deal with already as well I might add?

BTW…how is supersonic speed invincibility again? It’s just proving that most of Samus’ foes are weak and can’t take things at what Sonic could do easily it seems (btw…Samus struggles with maintaining the speed…she can’t jump, easily turn around, or any of that other stuff or else you lose the boost)

God…you guys have one word from an instruction booklet that is never repeated and the logical definition from other books proves it wrong (Supersonic speed=/=invincibility people for the 100th time)…and even then…the game for the book proves the book wrong…with one boss for a big example and certain common foes for little ones…

Here is a pecking order for official statements btw…
Interviews/People who made it talking about the game
Official things said in a game
The game itself
The dirt
The worms in the dirt
The instruction booklet

God…instruction books make errors all the time…a hell of a lot more than the games do…Dyna Blade has been called a man at least 2 times in 2 of them…in KSS for the SNES…and in Kirby Air ride for the GC…

How can you guys take everything seriously…especially when “invincibility” could just be for “game mechs” itself/mean something else easily…like only in game play (stars, going bananas are those examples)…because I hardly see how Ganondorf/Ike winning matches is fair just because they have for story mech. purposes only really (I mean…it’s a god protection…so how come when another god protected/god powered character comes along…they can’t beat them?)

And Samus' equipment is deffinatly stronger than the things Chimeras shoot. Samus for example would have no problem beating any of the bosses in Mother 3, excluding perhaps the Porky statue.

This is the clear biased I’ve been talking about…
Porky’s tech. rivals that of the Chozo…because he is using the stuff that was from the foes in Mother 2 for whatever reason…

Porky has made life with the stuff he has…which is what the Chozo have done at their highest level…Porky had free control over moving through space and time…which is not on the list of Chozo stuff from what I see (some debate can happen though I guess)…and even when he lost it…he still somehow was controlling others and bringing them through the tunnel…he doesn’t give up easily you know…

So…how is Samus going to beat a ton of foes that have access to her level of tech. again? God…all of the foes she is fighting all the time are a lot weaker than her for the most part in many ways…but Lucas’ foes had clear +s over him…but he still won…

No one here knows **** about Wario, that is true. Maybe it should be called a draw vs Pikachu then, because it pretty much depends on who hits who first.

Ah no…Wario is a star child…you really need to look up info on the Mario canon…I guess I would understand if you don’t know what that is though…because out of the 100 or so games that have Mario in it…only like 3 have actual canon info on him…

Also…Pikachu can’t even stay on the ground if he is to fight him…Because Wario can easily **** with the ground using his own strength to indirectly hit him…so while Pikachu can fly/swim by strapping balloons to him/using a surf board…it still isn’t going to save him…because Wario has power-ups that let him fly for one…or Wario could just throw a few dozen rocks at him…

I mean…what is stopping Wario from just running the little ******* over as well I might add? Wario is rich people…he has planes, trains, and automobiles for movement…he has tanks/fighting cars, fighter jets, and submarines for fighting…

Land, water, and sky…Wario has Pikachu beat…he has DK beat as well…but that is another issue…

 

[REL38]

@Clinton

Smash Kirby is legit.

It's a legit ability in Kirby and The Amazing Mirror which is a canon game.
Master Hand and Crazy Hand are part of Kirby canon by being in the same game.

It makes a reference, yes.
But that doesn't make the ability any less valid.


Also, Wario is only shown to shake the ground when he strikes it.
This only hurts nearby/on-screen enemies.

-Limited range

Wario's flying cap is slow and he only glides iirc

-Slow, airbourne target

Unless Wario used tanks, submarines, cars, airplanes and the like in the Wario Land/World games, then he can't use things he never used.

-canon vehicles only

 

[_clinton]

It makes a reference, yes.
But that doesn't make the ability any less valid.

I disagree...by your logic it's like saying Mario, Luigi, Samus, Mr. Saturn are a part of the Kirby canon just because there is a reference to them/others in Kirby Super Star...I guess Kirby has access to the full triforce huh?

The size of this doesn't matter IMO as well...a reference is still nothing more than a reference...and this reference is clearly from a set of games where we have said in this topic aren't canon...even though things like the SSE could be used IMO somewhat (God...the series should at least for background proof...it's not like the info given about the fighters in the game is a lie...there are mistakes of course...but it's not like that is a big deal...because mistakes are made with official statements all the time)

Also, Wario is only shown to shake the ground when he strikes it.
This only hurts nearby/on-screen enemies.

I'm sorry...but how big do you think this field that the characters are fighting in is anyway?

And I also think you are underestimating the power of his “shake” as well I might add:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZcrTHFN9ew

It ****ing moves buildings/solid structures…and works on all levels of foes…from small goons…to the final boss (when he is “off guard” at least)

-Limited range

Yeah…it’s a “ground” based move…which Pikachu is weak to…

Wario's flying cap is slow and he only glides iirc

Wario’s Jet cap (not flying cap) isn’t his only means of flight…in fact I’m pretty sure that the only reason it “glides” is because of the game it is in…because I have three examples of Wario having perfect flight powers
Eagle Wario-Perfect flight
King Dragon Wario-Perfect flight/Fire breath
Wicked Wario-Perfect flight (I don’t know if this one is ok with how the rules of this thread go…Goodstyle calls Wario his master…but it seems to be the source of some of his powers for that game…but whatever I’m listing it anyway…even though this…unlike the Dragon…is clearly separate from Wario…it’s more of Samus and her using Phazon)

-Slow, airbourne target

A jet’s slow to you? And I hardly consider Jet Wario slow at all in that game…god…it’s a lot faster to “glide” than it is to run through the levels when you can…

Unless Wario used tanks, submarines, cars, airplanes and the like in the Wario Land/World games, then he can't use things he never used.
-canon vehicles only

Wario has been seen using battle cars, submarines, airplanes, and several other things…two of them are shown in that video I posted for example…

Anyway…I don’t think I’ve stressed Wario’s “defense” enough so…besides the video I showed has him being crushed by a boulder 2x his size, being able to hold his ground when a foe is trying to blow him away is another thing, being buried in snow and rolling down a hill, being shot out of a cannon, ect.

I might as well bring this up…
http://www.mariowiki.com/Wario_Land_II#Transformation_Abilities
http://www.mariowiki.com/Wario_Land_3#Wario.27s_Transformations

So from Land 3…besides the fact that electricity really only just knocks him off his feet for a second…to the point where it really doesn’t seem to hurt him that much…can Pikachu get flattened into a pancake and recovery from it just fine in more than one game?

Also…the logic behind Wario being dumb is false as well…how is he dumb…how did that come about? He’s just greedy…if anything…his greed has caused him to do some crazy ****…like making an instant teleportation device…
http://www.mariowiki.com/Telmet

Anyway…here are some of Wario’s talents from Master of Disguise…again…I don’t know if they are aloud though due to how he makes them his powers in the 1st place…
http://www.mariowiki.com/Arty_Wario
His drawings come to life-What would stop him from just drawing a cage around Diddy Kong/Pikachu/DK?
http://www.mariowiki.com/Cosmic_Wario
Has a laser gun…along with some other skills
http://www.mariowiki.com/Dragon_Wario
Heavy, breaths fire, can handle things that are “hot”…however he can’t jump high
http://www.mariowiki.com/Genius_Wario
Pretty much Samus with her special equipment to let her see “hidden” things…also has a punching glove hand ^_^
http://www.mariowiki.com/Sparky_Wario
Mastery over electricity…even though he can’t move fast…he can power up machines as well…

 

[Crystanium]

Bag of Spilling, _clinton. Drop the issue. No one cares. You're not changing anyone's mind.

• In many Metroid games, the heroine loses all her old upgrades early on, and must recover them one-by-one. Or she'll find newer, different upgrades. Most games after Super Metroid tried to explain this in some way — suit damage, physical removal, or in the case of Metroid Fusion, surgical removal after infection by an aggressive parasite. The Luminoth weapons acquired in Prime 2 were incompatible with the suit's power systems, so naturally they would run out of energy without access to Luminoth power sources.
  
  • The Long Beam is one exception to this; you only need to get it in the original Metriod and its remake Zero Mission.
  • While Samus loses most of her gear from Metroid/Zero Mission (not to mention the Prime series) prior to Metroid II, she does keep the Morph Ball, Bombs, and a small supply of Missiles.
  • Metroid Prime 3 partially averts this by letting her keep a good portion of her non-weapon upgrades from Prime 2...but doesn't bother to explain why she lost the ones she did, including some which weren't Luminoth tech (Boost Ball, Grapple Beam).
  • The Prime 2 Bag of Spilling deserves special note here for taking away an item Samus didn't have in the first place. The suit's damage report lists a "Power Bomb Generator" among the stolen items, but you don't have Power Bombs during your Taste Of Power. Nonetheless, you get them "back" later...
  • I think this summarizes what happens pretty well http://www.kdingo.net/champ/pics/main.php?g2_itemId=9337

Get to know your tropes.

 

[justaway12]

I've actually brought those Wario things up before, though it might have been in TBD, but I don't know much about them, although they do look quite slow, I've seen Cosmic Wario and I've seen arty Wario's fecel matter, also he can only make blocks as arty Wario right? And he can't move, how can he draw a cage around the animals if they can't move? Well, unless it has no limits.

Don't know about anything else though.

@Viper: I swear I knew you were a boy, sometimes I'm just gender confused xD

 

[Diddy Kong]

@ _clinton: Wario isn't stronger than Donkey Kong. DK is mad strong.

 

[Kewkky]

What does Mario still have on Samus that might mean that it's a tie? I still believe Samus wins. If Stopwatch was supposed to be the trump card, it's not. Since it stops Samus in time, she retains any invincibility she has intact due to her being stopped in time while invincible, and she'll be too far for Mario to ever catch up if she starts to run away as soon as Mario starts using the stopwatch (1 second startup time = 1.057 miles that Samus just covered), since Mario doesn't have the speed to reach her before all of his stopwatches run out (since he HAS to make room for 'repel gels', 'life shrooms', and any other item that might have been mentioned). Samus can also use entanglers to trap Mario in a solid 'cocoon' of dark particles, where she can run up to him then and shoot a Darkburst before Mario has the chance to do anything (Like if Mario was trapped in a box, he'll be unable to run away until the box breaks). Mario can't even run fast enough to escape the entanglers due to his 'average' speed, while Samus can run at speeds of up to 1.057 miles/second WHILE invincible.

Quick question: while Bowser was invincible, could he still be hit with Clock-Out and Stop Watches? If he couldn't, then I think we should assume that while Samus is invincible she can't be stopped in time or afflicted with any status effect.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

I'm going to have to allow the life shroom, because, just like a lot of other stuff, it pretty much is canon.

Multiple lives are a different matter, though. Don't take anything that revives/heals you, and that isn't some sort of item or ability, to account.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Samus seems to be struggling quite a bit. Pity. I expected her to do better, it would be disappointing if she loses or draws against Mario (who, himself turned out to be quite powerful).

Wonder how this'll turn out.

 

[justaway12]

Kewwky, he doesn't need any of that stuff, 1 life shroom maybe, but that's it and people seem to have ignored my blue pepper question =/

And you said yourself, her speed booster is one big status effect, or her darkburst or w/e.

I still think it's a tie, TBH.

 

[Kewkky]

What does the Blue Pepper do? I forgot... And if it can be bought on stores, and you can carry a max of 99 items of whatever kind, then yeah Mario can carry 99 Blue Peppers.

I still want to know if, when you use Clock-Out and Stop Watch against invincible Bowser, they work or don't. If they don't, then Samus wins hands down. If it does work on Bowser (which I highly doubt), then I guess Samus will get stopped in time and retain her invincibility (like Bowser would do if he WOULD get stopped in time while invincible).

So, now that Samus can't be stopped in time and she's moving at supersonic speeds everywhere as well as has her Hypermode invincibility, I find it impossible to call it a Draw. She can kill Mario, but Mario can't kill her. Once Mario falls once, while he is reviving, a Darkburst will send him into another dimension where the atmosphere will kill Mario. If Mario is caught by entanglers at any time at all, a Darkburst will send him to the same dimension.

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam It says it pierces through enemies. Shouldn't it pierce through Mario's badge defenses then?

 

[justaway12]

99 blue peppers raise his speed.

IDK about Bowser.

Entanglers won't catch him, Samus can still be stopped in time, earliear you said that it was one big status effect or something anyway. Mario is untouchable, or just hard to touch, again, while she is in speed booster or w/e, won't something eventually consume her?

It can't pierce through badges, badges make mario dodge, he'll dodge them,and it also have to peirce into the items menu, switch to badges and get that specific badge. besides no enemie has been able to attack the badges, I doubt Samus can.

 

[Kewkky]

Does he have to use the peppers in battle in order to have them activated, and do they end after the battle? Or are they passive, and used outside of battles?

But, this would mean that you can't stop Samus in time. If what you say is true and it falls under the "immobilization" status effect, if it doesn't work on invincible Bowser, it shouldn't work on invincible Samus. She can't be overcome by anything, due to her being invincible, right? Why should a status effect remove her invincibility, or bypass it?

Entanglers WILL catch him since they're homing and they can even home in on aerial opponents, as long as Samus shoots it somewhere where they can 'sense' Mario... Like, at his feet when he is landing/is starting the stopwatch/is eating a blue pepper/whatever. Mario stands still when using an item too, so that's a perfect opportunity to shoot whatever Samus desires, like a Darkburst for example. Mario can only hope to run away and use an item while Samus misses her direct shot, which might be too hard for Mario to do since her Darkburst can be shot around his feet, where the gravity will pull him in (it's not 'attacking' him, more like pulling him inside by the great amount of gravity, so it shouldn't miss)... And what could consume Samus while she's invincible? She doesn't HAVE to be in Hypermode when she's Speed Boosting since she's already invincible, it's simply a means to retain her invincibility in case she hits an obstacle or she's stopped somehow... Which, since there are no unbreakable blocks nor walls on the field, it will be pretty much impossible.

It doesn't have to pierce through badges. Mario's defenses are doubled for each badge, right? And his chances of getting hit decreased by 50% per badge, right? Samus has infinite Plasma beams and a very high rate of fire, she'll eventually kill him, have him revived by a Life Shroom, charge a Darkburst meanwhile and shoot it at him while he's reviving. Victory for Samus! Sort of like how in this thread the Ike vs Sonic MU was won by Ike because he would 'eventually' hit the super fast Sonic and Sonic couldn't do anything to Ike, right (I know that MU needs to be revisited, but that's how it was declared before all the stuff about Sonic was found out)?

 

[missingnomaster]

Entangler homes in. a lot of Samus' weapons home in actually.

Speed Booster has no negative effects. Hypermode does if you stay in it too long, which is easy to avoid happening.

EDIT: sort of ninja'd

 

[justaway12]

He does use them in battles, IDK about the rest, I don't have PiT, though, this isn't set in RPG so he could eat them all at once.

IDK about Bowser, I don't really know.

Again, that is immobilization, which is a status effect.

And all of her attacks hurt by 1, and let's not forget super gaurd, or whatever Viper said, unfortunatly, nobody seems to pay attention to some important details from him.

 

[Crystanium]

99 blue peppers raise his speed.

Blue Peppers allow Mario and his party to attack before his opponents. A simple RPG game mechanic, kind of like in Final Fantasy, where if you used Haste on yourself and Slow on your opponent, you would be attacking first, and you would get in more hits. Besides, there is no specific information on how fast Mario moves if this were to be applied anyway.

Entanglers won't catch him, Samus can still be stopped in time, earliear you said that it was one big status effect or something anyway.

What?

Mario is untouchable, or just hard to touch, again, while she is in speed booster or w/e, won't something eventually consume her?

What? What is going to consume Samus? And I find it hard to believe that a character moving 5,519 ft./s would have a difficult time hitting Mario in the first place. The match begins, Samus uses her Speed Booster, and Mario, well what is he starting off with? I am not going to abide by some RPG rules in the same way this turn-based stuff doesn't apply.

It can't pierce through badges, badges make mario dodge, he'll dodge them,and it also have to peirce into the items menu, switch to badges and get that specific badge. besides no enemie has been able to attack the badges, I doubt Samus can.

What a joke. The inventory is just a game mechanic. It stops time when you're selecting whatever it is you want to select. It's no different than any other type of inventory. Ness, for example, has a backpack. That backpack has items in it. The Plasma Beam wouldn't need to go to a specific item or whatever just to eliminate it. If it's on Samus' opponent, it's taking damage. Goodness, I hate RPGs. Here, just use the Wavebuster. It auto-targets the enemy. Use that until Mario's health runs out, and he's done. And if you think that's a problem, then Samus uses the Dark Visor, which also gives her an automatic lock-on, which cannot be avoided.

This is taking way too long. Try dodging carpet bombing, Mario. It's not targeting anyone, so I don't see why that won't work. It's just thrown out on a specific region. Anyone caught in it is done for. You cannot dodge explosives, because the blast radius is too high. That's like saying Mario would be able to dodge an atomic bomb.

 

[justaway12]

Yes, and it's classified as SPD. up, what else is it supposed to mean in RPGs? It's not like they'll just run really fast.

The rest weren't supposed to be one sentence.

And I got Hyper-something confused with speed booster and obviously turn-based stuff won't apply, I don't apply, I don't ever recall mentioning that, if she starts with the speed booster what will she do next? Her attacks hurt by one, most of her attacks will miss and Mario has a badge that makes Samus take half the damage.

You seemed to miss the sarcasim in my last sentence =/

 

[Kewkky]

For the record, Samus does have the ability to carpet bomb with her ship...

Anyways, I'll be without internet for a while. REMEMBER MY POINTS! Samus, while invincible, can't be overcome by ANYTHING, so I don't know how Samus will lose to mario. Mario is simply surviving while Samus is attacking forever, seems like Samus wins! She even has homing attacks that pierce, some that hold opponents in place, and one attack that sends enemies into dark dimensions. She wins. DON'T DRAW THIS! D:

 

[Crystanium]

Yes, and it's classified as SPD. up, what else is it supposed to mean in RPGs? It's not like they'll just run really fast.

So what's the purpose?

Her attacks hurt by one, most of her attacks will miss and Mario has a badge that makes Samus take half the damage.

Samus can take the damage, I'm sure. When you defeat Draygon by electrocuting him, Samus takes damage, but she lasts longer than Draygon. I don't see it any different with Mario. Besides, damage received would be reduced to a quarter (1/4). Samus has a lot of Energy Tanks, and she can use the Crystal Flash a number of times when necessary. She also has Reserve Tanks that automatically restore four of her Energy Tanks.

 

[PowerBomb]

Does the Crystal Flash restore her reserve tanks?

 

[justaway12]

The purpose is to make you faster. I mean making a character run fast in an RPG won't serve a purpose, so they get everything else faster.

Because Mario has 99 life shrooms, and maybe he can't stack up those badges, IDK, but with only two badges in his inventory, he can get more of those badges, dammit I need to find REL's quote.
He also has Super Guard as well, I think it was said earlier that it reduce all attacks to 0.

There's a badge that deals half damage recieved to the enemy.

Can't he get more of those?

 

[Crystanium]

Does the Crystal Flash restore her reserve tanks?

No, but that's fine. 20 Energy Tanks * 5 is 100 Energy Tanks. That's 10,000 Energy Units, plus an addition 400 Energy Units. I am going to put this on hold for now. I think it would be best to do so for now. I'd say we move onto two other characters for now. In the meantime, I am going to work on my Match-Up Rules.

 

[justaway12]

I wouldn't mind if it's on hold, it's my holiday and I don't enjoy spending it debating.

Let's all hug for now <3

Spoiler

Or call it a tie

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Well, alright, I guess I CAN put it on hold. But, to cause no disruptions, I'd have to give it a deadline. January the 1st. No more, no less. We'll have to determine a winner by then.

New MU in a bit.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE KING OF DARKNESS Vs. THE BLAZING HEDGEHOG

Ganondorf Vs. Sonic

Vs.

Round 5, Match 3.

Who will emerge victorious?

 

[missingnomaster]

Oh wow. This matchup... Sonic really shouldn't be able to harm Ganondorf, but if it can be proved that Sonic's ring limit is a game mechanic, it would have to be a draw.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Unless someone proves that Ganon can be harmed, I won't need to get involved.

Oh, and, by the way, Ganon's not "too slow".

 

[missingnomaster]

Unless someone proves that Ganon can be harmed, I won't need to get involved.

Oh, and, by the way, Ganon's not "too slow".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Cc6BxLo0o

Had to do it.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Cc6BxLo0o

Had to do it.

"Looks at thread's title."

"Looks at the video."

Yeah. I don't get humor.