Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[missingnomaster]

GenoGar: (About losing as Super Sonic) There are generally certain ways where you can lose as Super Sonic. Super Sonic is subjected to the same auto-death things as Sonic (falling off screen, crushed, drowning) And sometimes you fight the final boss as Super Sonic, but with only 50 rings, forcing you to collect more rings while you try and take down the boss.

Also, in Sonic 3, Eggman's final machine has a grabbing attack that somehow hurts Super Sonic, but I really don't know what to make of it, since it hurts you even if you go debug mode through cheats.

 

[Kewkky]

I'd like Dryn to answer me if, since Hyper mode takes away Samus' energy tanks, she could use Crystal Flash to refuel her energy tanks and keep her Hyper Mode active for unlimited invulnerability as well... I know she can use Crystal Flash and fill up all of her Energy Tanks, then go back into hyper mode, but I dunno if she would be allowed to use it WHILE in Hyper mode. That would make her also very broken, since she only needs less than half a second to exit and reenter Hyper mode whenever she needs to do it, or wants to do it.

 

[BSP]

I still fail to see how sonic loses to meta knight since he is outspeeds him by a far margin, he has 3 hours as SS, and he can stop time, leaving MK defenseless. How can MK avoid this? Sonic WILL catch MK as super sonic + time stopping.

@GenoGar

Mario-verse and Samus are pretty broken too.

 

[missingnomaster]

I believe Samus has to have around 49 units of energy or less to use Crystal Flash. Plus, it takes 10 of each of the ammo she has in Super Metroid (plus 1 extra powerbomb)

 

[GenoGar]

woah back up a second.

Why is it that super sonic, whose energy is capable of bending time, the fabric of reality itself incapable of harming Ike?
A being whose power is EQUAL to the god of chaos (Sonic adventure 1, yes Chaos IS a god) is incapable of defeating a mortal?
Let alone last I saw, Ike only has ONE ragnell and I dont believe his other weapons are enchanted the same way.

Hat to ruin things in between matchups but I have not been around and this made me go "!"

He uses hax with his blessed armor. You can drive a 2 ton truck down a freeway and hit Ike head on with 560,000 N of force but it won't even dent his armor because that truck lacks blessing from Ashera. (LOL Ike could probably outrun the truck since he's "super human")

Being a god also doesn't make you safe since Ike destroys gods apparently.

And well... Ragnell isn't the only Ashera/Yune blessed weapon... it's just ridiculously good because he can shoot lasers from it and he gets a defense boost.

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Anyway... Marth vs. Link.

Marth doesn't hax like Ike. He's just a normal girly man with a long sword. His party members are more impressive.

Link pretty much has all the tools necessary to deal with a lone Marth.

Not to count Marth out... he'll raep Link if he hops on Epona... and he can definitely outrun Link in any setting. If Marth has a wind sword, he can just run and swing wind lasers at Link and Link will just have to shoot arrows or hook/claw Marth back to him. Assuming Murphy's Law betrays Marth, he'll EVENTUALLY get hit by... let's say an ice arrow. It'll pretty much be over from there.

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@missingnomaster:

Then Super Sonic isn't forever since it's fueled by rings... but I don't know how he could get more rings in this "controlled" setting for these matchups. Rings don't fly out of characters... so I'm guessing Super Sonic will just run out and he'll be normal Sonic for the remainder of a match.

Also, Ike can die because during most of the game his armor isn't blessed. When it DOES get blessed, all the enemies you fight are blessed by Ashera... so... LOL THAT DIDN'T HELP MUCH.


@mariobrouser:

lol Starman and Star Rod are pretty much rigged sauce. All these other things like Time Stopping things I assume come from some of the RPGs...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I still fail to see how sonic loses to meta knight since he is outspeeds him by a far margin, he has 3 hours as SS, and he can stop time, leaving MK defenseless. How can MK avoid this? Sonic WILL catch MK as super sonic + time stopping.

@GenoGar

Mario-verse and Samus are pretty broken too.

Metaknight can teleport away by using dimensional cape. He transcends space itself by wrapping himself in the cape and teleporting away.

 

[missingnomaster]

@GenoGar: Well, Mariobrouser had brought up some really good points about how Super Sonic's ring limit was a game mechanic, but they apparently got disproven somehow.

Still, Sonic can remain Super for around 3 hours best case scenario.

 

[ShadowLink84]

He uses hax with his blessed armor. You can drive a 2 ton truck down a freeway and hit Ike head on with 560,000 N of force but it won't even dent his armor because that truck lacks blessing from Ashera. (LOL Ike could probably outrun the truck since he's "super human")

Being a god also doesn't make you safe since Ike destroys gods apparently.

And well... Ragnell isn't the only Ashera/Yune blessed weapon... it's just ridiculously good because he can shoot lasers from it and he gets a defense boost.

Great Ike can kill a god, but the discussion is concerning his protection. If Super Sonic is the embodiment of time,space, reality and it is contianed within his form, why would Ike be completely immune to somethig that quite literally breaks the fabrics of the universe?

If a god is capable of breaking thorugh such a defense, and Sonic is being directly suffused, why would Ike be completely immune?

Can the armor be broken?
Wouldn't sonic be able to rob Ike of his weapons?


Not doubting you, im asking quiestions literally.


edit: Ray kalm how is he going to teleport when he is already frozen in time?

 

[GenoGar]

Great Ike can kill a god, but the discussion is concerning his protection. If Super Sonic is the embodiment of time,space, reality and it is contianed within his form, why would Ike be completely immune to somethig that quite literally breaks the fabrics of the universe?

If a god is capable of breaking thorugh such a defense, and Sonic is being directly suffused, why would Ike be completely immune?

Can the armor be broken?
Wouldn't sonic be able to rob Ike of his weapons?


Not doubting you, im asking quiestions literally.


edit: Ray kalm how is he going to teleport when he is already frozen in time?

Two different universes. And only weapons blessed by Ashera herself can harm Ike. Not Yune, not anyone. lol And I already said Ragnell gets reblessed so that it's Yune so even if you take Ike's weapon it wouldn't matter.

And like I said. If you put Ike in a giant blender and set it to "Ice Crush", the laws of the universe will tell you that Ike remains untouched because the blender required Ashera's blessing to actually damage Ike.

So if you take it in a game sense... Super Sonic could unleash a giant spirit bomb that is capable of destroying a universe... and in the end Ike would receive 0 damage. It's that simple! Pretty stupid, but it's as simple as that.

If you take the same argument elsewhere... like Ganon vs Sonic, Ganondorf can't be killed since the Triforce of Power forbids him from dying. Link must always "seal" Ganon away. So really... even if Super Sonic controls the fabric of space and time, you can't distort the greatness that is Ganon simply because the laws of his universe says otherwise.

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To make you feel better, if Sonic had a butter knife that was blessed by Ashera, Ike would probably have his *** handed to him.

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This thread makes me lol repeatedly (in a good way).

 

[Ussi]

It was also brought up that Sonic would be too weak to lift Ike's ragnell up and that only Ike could equip it.


Too bad Ganon vs Ike is a dead lock of God's protecting them :S

 

[warpd]

Could someone throw Ike into space and watch him sufficate to death?

 

[ph00tbag]

Could someone throw Ike into space and watch him sufficate to death?

Is space blessed by Ashera?

Also, real question: Regarding being hit by a truck, what kind of effect would sudden acceleration have on Ike's body? Naturally, the armor would be unharmed, but is Ike's body somehow not liquefied by the change in momentum?

 

[PK-ow!]

Is space blessed by Ashera?

Hit points are a form of shielding oneself from death.

They are not the soul metric of vitality.


Hit points are that in virtue of which, some hits, that would fell 'lesser men', are not lethal.


There are still insta-deaths, OHKOs, HP-zero-ers (they're different)...

and, I think, biological attacks.
No, it [space] doesn't do damage. It just makes Ike's body not work anymore, 'cause he's Human and runs on oxygen (and water).


Throwing Ike into space is actually a brilliant idea.

 

[IsmaR]

Making Ike suffocate should in theory defeat him. His armor/he can't be destroyed, but he's still human, albeit godly and super-y.

 

[_clinton]

I'd like to see some game script pls, Clinton. =) Last time I checked, the script you actually posted didn't mention anything about using dragon's power 10 times lol, nor does the eb wiki.

Lol wut?

Desires is plural pal…not singular

If it was only going to be used one time…it would say...the magic dragon will fulfill your greatest desire or something…not “whatever so and so wants they will get…and if they wanted to destroy everything they could destroy everything”

Again…it’s the same thing with the Triforce and the Star Rod…they say your greatest desires are fulfilled as well if they want…

So how could you aren’t calling into question what limits they have to the number of times you can use them? (other than the clear fact that you are very biased in this of course)

Well…time to post the link again it seems:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/914622/42740

And again, nothing proves Lucas is using dragon's power by himself or that he's able to use them however he wishes.

Except for the fact that the “dragon” is linked to him and Claus because of them being able to use PK Love…and says that it will allow him to have whatever he bloody wants…

“ It's said that the dragon of darkness is reflected in the heart of the one who removes the needle.”

Here is a different part…

” Lucas, someone besides yourself removed this needle. The dragon of darkness is reflected in his soul. You must remove the remaining needles.

Oh my…The “dragon” subconscious is reflected by how the user thinks…AND the dragon of darkness is also reflected in the soul of the user in return (PK Love)…how about that…”mirrors” sure are cool huh?

”I'm sure you already know this, but the Dragon of Darkness is said to be reflected in the hearts of those who remove the needles. The strength within strength, the darkness within darkness and the light within light, will enter your soul.”

How is it not Lucas’ and Claus’ power again when it is entering them and becoming a part of them?

If the one who calls forth the dragon has a wicked heart, the dragon's power will obey him. If he so wishes, he could destroy anything and everything.

I like how much of a limit that sounds like…don’t you…boy that sure does sound limited though…

Everything…

Boy that sure is limited huh?

Please stop thinking the Dragon is like a “genie” or something…because it isn’t…

Genies are common foes in said game ^_^

The “dragon” is reflected onto the user just like the user is reflected onto the “dragon”…

Again though…Leder does say that the dragon is the power of the land…which was what the thing was in Mother 2…funny how it happened that way with Ness as well:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/588301/34560
”Ness made all of the hidden powers his own. Ness absorbed the power of the land into his heart, and Magicant was no more.”

Funny how this holy land has touched the “hearts” of these two characters huh?
How could something like that have a limit…They become one and the same in the end!

And lol if being a master of PK abilities means he has mostly healing type PK moves.

Funny…last I checked he had more than just healing PK moves…

He has the most powerful single target/group target PSI in the game…no one can do as much damage to a single target using a single strike with PK as Lucas can…granted the only other one in his group who is using PSI is Kumatora…but considering what she has…I’d say that is pretty impressive…
He also has the best defensive psi, and the best supportive psi…

And okay I used invincibility instead of invulnerability. Big deal. >_>

Yet you criticize me for saying speed booster instead of shinespark

By using speed boosting instead of using the word shinesparking, you lead me to believe samus gets hurt by speed boosting into enemy. And while you consider shinespark to be part of speed boost, does she get hurt when she hits a boss? Nope, she deals damage and goes through. Should be more than sufficient.

Funny…the foes that use Speed booster and so on plow through Samus and it doesn’t hurt her that much…

In fact that is another issue I have with the speed booster…it’s not the best offense out there…

1st off…you can only run in one direction…if you try changing direction at all while using it you’re going to have to start over again…and it does take a while before the thing starts up…Samus isn’t like Sonic…she doesn’t have supersonic speed naturally…she can store the energy used from moving this fast…but she isn’t able to start it again easily…
2nd off…Shine spark is even more limited…you become super fast…but you can’t stop moving…plus it has a start up time to use as well…

And if healing is the same as modifying matter and things, I guess eating an apple is altering space & time now eh? You eat food on Mother 3 to restore hit points in the exact same fashion as you do when using PSI, the only difference is that you're using PSI to do it, different HP amount is restored and you use PP. HP stays the same.

”When the dragon sleeping under the island wakes, all life and all time will be reborn.”

Funny…I like how you have control over time as well…you know…because by the end of Mother 2…Ness had to move through time w/o the need of a machine (after giygas’ fight)

Oh…and I like how you try to sound like things are limited by comparing food to PK Lifeup…PK Lifeup beats food 100% of the time in the game (which btw…Lucas/Ness happen to be fighting an army..and with all of these people shooting Lucas/Ness…if you think they don’t get hit/hurt…I’m afraid I’m going to have to disagree with you)

Of course…it’s not like Lucas/Ness is the only character to life up using food…Mario does it (RPGs), Snake does it (Rations), Link does it (Milk/Soup), Kirby does it (oh god how he does it)...

Samus isn't shown to breathe, but I'd make a wild guess and say she's capable of breathing to keep herself alive. Just as sonic can hold things in his hands or grab things.

Yet…you think that a power that is linked to someone and has been shown to be transported with that someone isn’t going to be doing the same thing again…

Just making sure, Metaknight wins cause Lucas has no way of reaching the Halberd, right?

Are people just ignoring my posts, it seems that way because when I bring up the fact that Lucas has two modes of transportation at his disposal that will allowing to fly (Pork n’ Beans, Mr. Saturn Pork n’ Beans)…that sort of counters the whole “can’t reach argument issue…

Plus…MK can’t even fire those cannons at Lucas anyway w/o dealing with some big risk…the power shield will reflect their energy back at them…plus I can’t see why Lucas can’t just blast the Halberd out of the sky with his energy as well…it’s not like MK is the only foe Lucas has ever fought that has been able to fly…plus again bringing that up…if Lucas didn’t have some method of special movement 90% of the foes he fights would beat him…

Actually, only certain people can use the chaos emeralds' energy for themselves. Sonic, Silver, Shadow and Knuckles are the only ones who have been able to use the emeralds power to go into a super form. Silver can use the emeralds, regardless of his psychic power, so how does that makes M2 able to mess with them? And actually, the emeralds are on a totally different level than the psychic users here. The emeralds have brought dead back to life. Ness, Lucas, and Mewtwo have not. If you can prove me wrong, do it by showing actual evidence.

The chaos emeralds have been used to power machinery…I don’t buy that whole only such and such can use them argument at all…Blaze has also used them…

The chaos emeralds really don’t sound that different from psychic powers at all…they both control chaos in case you don’t get that…

And the emeralds are hardly on a different level than the psychic powers of Ness/Lucas…again…they have been quoted as people who can do whatever they want with them… Ness strikes fear into a being that can destroy the universe because they happen to have the same potential…Lucas’ power (which again…is Ness’ in a different form…if you look at everything surrounding the info on them) when it was dormant has also protected people from the end of everything…plus there are people being brought back from the dead in different ways all the time in the Mother games…either as a spirit or something else…

As for Mewtwo…I don’t know enough about him to speak of any reference to him screwing with the dead…but considering how the Pokemon world is packed full of beings that control life/death and so on…and Mewtwo is seen as a deadly Mother ****er still…I wouldn’t play into calling him weak…

HE DIDNT STEAL THE ROD. He can hit bowser before he has a chance to use anything, that's how sonic wins, not stealing the rod!

So…explain to me how Lucas loses again if speed is any issue? (oh and Bowser is hardly open to pain easily…the guy takes baths in molten magma and just won’t ****ing die)

Sonic =\= Shadow, again, just because shadow lost his power, doesnt mean sonic will. Sonic is ok after the fight even.

Shadow has shown proof that he has more power at least in regards to controlling chaos energy (I’m not saying Shadow>Sonic…just stating that Shadow does have some plus’) Plus again…Sonic and Shadow take turns RECHARGING their energy in that fight…

They were clearly pressed for time in that fight…

If you can find an explanation of why SS has the ring count, that changes things. And what do you mean with no proof?

Ok, do cutscenes count or not?

Why would cut scenes not count? They are far more backing to canon strength than anything else…

What does 50 rings mean again? We don’t know…all they mean for game play is that they are a measurement on how long said characters can keep their charge in their super form (which btw it the reason he has the ring count…because canon wise…the super forms have been shown to have limits…and rings usually count for that)…but…that is all we do know…is 50 rings=to 20 heart containers? Or are they only worth 1? Who can really say what they are worth? Sonic isn’t Zelda ^_^

Which is why things like “only Link can beat Ganondorf” is unfair and BS...

Someone who can destroy the universe and everything in it is showing that they have more power than Ganondorf (who is barely reaching world power if that). That is more impressive than what Ganondorf is…but according to Zelda Fan boy logic…someone like Goku from Dragonball is going to lose to Ganondorf/Ike just because he doesn’t have the master sword/god blessing in his canon…WTF is up with that!

Does anyone here really think Ike is going to beat Goku in a fight? Because that is what the logic seen in some of the posts is saying…because last I check...Goku who has been trained by gods canon wise...is still going to lose because he doesn't have Ike's god under that...

A "god" is a "god" people

Ike's god isn't any more special than the Mario universes gods...or the Zelda Universe's...

 

[GenoGar]

LMAO this thread never ceases to make me laugh.

Is space blessed by Ashera?

I fell off the floor when I read this.

Also, real question: Regarding being hit by a truck, what kind of effect would sudden acceleration have on Ike's body? Naturally, the armor would be unharmed, but is Ike's body somehow not liquefied by the change in momentum?

If it's of divine warding (like it deflects blows away), then the truck would simply experience instant deceleration of motion... which means it will crush "into" Ike like a crushed soda while Ike just stands there. Then it'll just... be deflected away I suppose. That, or the truck instantly reflects it's trajectory backwards.

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And LOL you can't throw Ike into space. You know how much he weighs? They don't call him a human tank for nothing. Besides, how the hell you gonna actually grab him. He'll just blast your face off if you get too close.

Should the "controlled" setting that everyone fights in have a ceiling? I'm pretty sure you can kill almost anyone by just throwing them into space. But I'm guessing Mario defies the laws of space in Mario Galaxy.

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Kirby vs. Link: Link -1, Kirby +1

Summarized Reason: Kirby wins because he'll summon his warp star and send Link into space where he can suffocate. Link has no answer to this.

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@_clinton:

Triforce of Power states that he is immortal and can't be killed. If he gets completely vaporized, he'll just appear again. Link "beats" Ganondorf because he seals him away.

And the reason why Ike will beat Goku is because whatever Goku does won't hurt Ike. That's the most ridiculous thing if you think about it... but according the laws of Ike's game, he'll receive 0 damage from the most absurd things like a giant spear into his chest, getting eletrocuted, being burnt alive by a Dragon (the same kind of dragon that can destroy an entire castle), and having a building fall on him. Unless said spear, lightning, Dragon flame, or falling building was blessed by Ashera... Ike will remain unscathed.

This is because we're using Ashera's rule... which is... MAGIC. If you can't explain something... just say MAGIC.

It may not make sense, but it makes as much sense as a golden hedgehog that controls whole space time continuum, why Mario can breathe in space, why Bowser doesn't make a castle with a lock, and why Ganondorf doesn't banish Link into the dimension of reality and space and manage to lose every time they fight.

 

[REL38]

Yo Clinton, Ima let you finish, but FE gods will never equal Mother gods

Same like how Palutaena =/= Star Rod =/= Chaos Emeralds =/= Triforce

That's like stating Mother HP = Pokemon HP
Untrue statement.

Just because one character has "god-like powers" does not mean another character of supposive "greater god-like powers" will beat the other without question.

Ex. Sonic will never hurt Ike because he lacks the blessing of Ashera or w/e
Chaos Emeralds =/= Fire Emblem god
Untrue statement.

 

[_clinton]

I fell off the floor when I read this.

You may have laughed...but I died a little inside when I read it though...sort of like you saying Goku will lose to Ike had the same affect but whatever…

Triforce of Power states that he is immortal and can't be killed. If he gets completely vaporized, he'll just appear again. Link "beats" Ganondorf because he seals him away.

The Triforce of Power is a god item…and only one of three…therefore the only reason Ganondorf is alive is because he has god power running through him…power that isn’t fully 100% his…because he has lost it before…

Like it or not…he has been truly beaten before…it’s more than just sealing him away…

This is because we're using Ashera's rule... which is... MAGIC. If you can't explain something... just say MAGIC.

Ashera isn’t the only god power user on the block in this thread…how is it fair that only her rules are in affect for Ike?

Oh and if you really think Ike is going to beat Goku…why don’t you go and try and argue that somewhere and see what happens? Because your lists of things that Ike has taken and lived through doesn't sound that impressive as well I might add...its like how another certain user in this thread said Diddy Kong being protected by bee stings automaticly means he'll take a car coming at him at 700+ MPH...

Mario is throwing castles around with his bare hands for example in his games (SMW castle 7)...
Ness/Lucas are universal threats with their powers...
Link...has done his fare share of dragon fighting/having towers fall on him/ect...
Samus...is a one women army...in a sci-fi setting...
Sonic runs at the speed of sound and beyond and can reach those speeds in an instant...and control himself
Mewtwo...strikes fear into the hearts of a world filled with mythological monsters running around and being keep as house pets

BTW...would you kindly prove that Ike can take that stuff with in game samples?

It may not make sense, but it makes as much sense as a golden hedgehog that controls whole space time continuum, why Mario can breathe in space, why Bowser doesn't make a castle with a lock, and why Ganondorf doesn't banish Link into the dimension of reality and space and manage to lose every time they fight.

Sonic can’t control time and space…the chaos emeralds are able to be used by everyone and their grandmother when you check the canon up closely…

Mario can’t breathe in space…SPM for the wii proves it…plus the only reason why he was able to in SMG was because of the star people he was with…

Ganondorf isn’t the only one being protected by the gods…Link has that protection as well…plus last I checked Link isn’t a creation of Ganondorf like his phantom from OoT is…

Same like how Palutaena =/= Star Rod =/= Chaos Emeralds =/= Triforce

The Triforce lets people have whatever they want...which is the same as saying that they can control chaos...
The Chaos Emeralds have unlimited energy...and let people perform things w/o bounds
Ashera is a god of order…that is to say she has control over making things of chaos into order…

How are they different again except for name?

Just because one character has "god-like powers" does not mean another character of supposive "greater god-like powers" will beat the other without question.

Try arguing that with the context of Greek Gods or something like that...

Ex. Sonic will never hurt Ike because he lacks the blessing of Ashera or w/e
Chaos Emeralds =/= Fire Emblem god
Untrue statement.

So...you are saying Goku will lose to Ike then because he doesn't have the blessing of Ashera? Goku has proven to be stronger than Gods in his series btw…you know…in case you don’t get that…

 

[GenoGar]

You may have laughed...but I died a little inside when I read it though...sort of like you saying Goku will lose to Ike had the same affect but whatever…

lol WOW you need to lighten up. That statement was pure comedy of the absurdness that is this topic. You counter the absurd with the absurdity... and that statement was a beautiful example.

The Triforce of Power is a god item…and only one of three…therefore the only reason Ganondorf is alive is because he has god power running through him…power that isn’t fully 100% his…because he has lost it before…

Like it or not…he has been truly beaten before…it’s more than just sealing him away…

Well according to OoT, he gained all 3 pieces but he didn't use Wisdom and Courage in balance with Power, so he was left with Power only. The Triforce of Power makes him immortal. In the events of OoT, the world was already taken over by Ganondorf.

And the act of "beaten" is followed by sealing Ganon away by Zelda or morphing into a form that can't hurt anyone.

Ashera isn’t the only god power user on the block in this thread…how is it fair that only her rules are in affect for Ike?

Well it's hard to argue against "does no effect". So how do you determine which god beats which? We'll have to assume everything is true.

A: Ike can't die!
B: NAH Super Sonic is basically the definition of total power.
A: But according to his canon, Ike can't be hurt!
B: But Ike CAN be hurt because Super Sonic is basically the definition of total power.
A: ...but Ike can't be hurt!
C: Hey Ganondorf can destroy any matter of any substance and completely wipe out all existance of anything he wishes with a super giant purple LAZER.
A: Sorry, Ike can't be hurt!

And yada yada yada... basically the point is... it's impossible to compare LOGICALLY since each universe contradicts each other in physics and philosophical elements like gods.

If you were to take these two instances as TRUE:

Person A can never die no matter the circumstance.
Person B can always kill no matter the circumstance.

...and if Person B were to attack Person A... would Person A live or die?

Oh and if you really think Ike is going to beat Goku…why don’t you go and try and argue that somewhere and see what happens?

Apparently talking about Nintendo characters and how much they own DBZ characters is a hot topic on major forums everywhere. Can you sense my sarcasm? Do you honestly think there would be a giant blender for Ike to hop in? Stop taking everyone so seriously.

Because your lists of things that Ike has taken and lived through doesn't sound that impressive as well I might add...its like how another certain user in this thread said Diddy Kong being protected by bee stings automaticly means he'll take a car coming at him at 700+ MPH...

Mario is throwing castles around with his bare hands for example in his games (SMW castle 7)...
Ness/Lucas are universal threats with their powers...
Link...has done his fare share of dragon fighting/having towers fall on him/ect...
Samus...is a one women army...in a sci-fi setting...
Sonic runs at the speed of sound and beyond and can reach those speeds in an instant...and control himself
Mewtwo...strikes fear into the hearts of a world filled with mythological monsters running around and being keep as house pets

BTW...would you kindly prove that Ike can take that stuff with in game samples?

LOL they aren't blessed by Ashera so they can't hurt Ike! It's that simple!

Sonic can’t control time and space…the chaos emeralds are able to be used by everyone and their grandmother when you check the canon up closely…

Don't know Sonic canon, but someone pointed out Super Sonic is pretty much the manifestation of all that is universal.

Mario can’t breathe in space…SPM for the wii proves it…plus the only reason why he was able to in SMG was because of the star people he was with…

Ok cool. I remember SPM now, that was a trippy level. Ok, explain why Mario can stay underwater in all the 2-D scrollers. And in the 3-D platformers... coins = air?

But really, you don't need to explain because it just makes sense.

Ganondorf isn’t the only one being protected by the gods…Link has that protection as well…plus last I checked Link isn’t a creation of Ganondorf like his phantom from OoT is…

Link can die by normal means. Ganondorf gets put into submission.

The Triforce lets people have whatever they want...which is the same as saying that they can control chaos...
The Chaos Emeralds have unlimited energy...and let people perform things w/o bounds
Ashera is a god of order…that is to say she has control over making things of chaos into order…

How are they different again except for name?

[pointless argument/]

Hey, Ashera is the goddess of order while Yune is the goddess of chaos!

omg Yune = Chaos Emeralds which means Ike's armor = Super Sonic Ike is basically Super Sonic because Yune is the Chaos Emeralds which means Super Sonic is actually a manifestation of Yune's blessing which means only weapons blessed by Ashera can hurt Super Sonic but Ike's sword Ragnell is blessed by Ashera so that means Ike can hurt Super Sonic so that means Ike wins GG.

[/pointless argument]

So...you are saying Goku will lose to Ike then because he doesn't have the blessing of Ashera? Goku has proven to be stronger than Gods in his series btw…you know…in case you don’t get that…

Goku isn't even in smash. Where'd you bring up Goku? I remember mentioning Spirit Bomb but I mentioned it as a wtfux attack... not Goku.

-

Something I realized when I first posted on this topic...

Bottom line is...

...game canon is void of logic. Anything that seems sensible is actually wrong in game while anything that doesn't make sense is actually reality. Each game contradicts each other's reality... so the best thing to do is take everything very simplistically. This means we shouldn't actually argue the validity of characters that are indestructible... we should just take it as a fact and move on. The question of "how is that possible?" should never be asked or it'll be filled with wall-o-texts of pretty much fan boyism and canonical logic that only applies to that certain universe.

I'm guilty for starting a bit of this so... meh.

This topic is very intriguing though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh and if you really think Ike is going to beat Goku…why don’t you go and try and argue that somewhere and see what happens? Because your lists of things that Ike has taken and lived through doesn't sound that impressive as well I might add...its like how another certain user in this thread said Diddy Kong being protected by bee stings automaticly means he'll take a car coming at him at 700+ MPH...

Not only bee stings, also attacks from gaint robots, lava, fire and missiles. <_<

 

[_clinton]

You counter the absurd with the absurdity... and that statement was a beautiful example.

Speaking of which…I wonder…is there anything more absurd than the concept of invincibility itself?

Well according to OoT, he gained all 3 pieces but he didn't use Wisdom and Courage in balance with Power, so he was left with Power only. The Triforce of Power makes him immortal. In the events of OoT, the world was already taken over by Ganondorf.

Of course “the world” (I hardly consider Hyrule to be the full world) was taken over by Ganondorf in OoT…the other two parts of the Triforce where not around to balance out the use of power…

Still all of this stuff doesn’t change the fact that the ToP isn’t naturally Ganondorf’s own power…he is just able to use it because the gods allow it…

And the act of "beaten" is followed by sealing Ganon away by Zelda or morphing into a form that can't hurt anyone.

Here is a list of games where Ganondorf has been killed…not just sealed

LoZ
Z2 (in a way)
LttP
OoA/OoS
WW
TP (although the Zelda wiki stats that his fate is unknown…I think he is dead…the ToP left him you know)

Compared to the games he has been only sealed in for the final blow…
OoT
4sword

I’d say the kill count is greater…but…I’ll admit that talk of him being sealed at one point is brought up in these games…
LttP
TP
WW

So…maybe instead of you thinking he is only sealed away…its more or less the fact that only the god power can hurt him…because after all…what do the master sword and ToC have in common?

TP he was only sealed because the people that did it didn’t have any form of god power…

Well it's hard to argue against "does no effect". So how do you determine which god beats which?

Well at least you seem to get my point of saying only A. can beat B. is stupid ^_^
But as for measuring god power…again…I’ve brought it up in older posts on how you can actually do it…

1st of all…are all gods the same? Last I checked someone like Zeus for example if he were to fight with Ares I’m pretty sure Ares better back down…

Now…according to the FE canon for Ike’s games…the two gods that you are working/dealing with are actually one in the same…so…considering how Ike only has the power of one full ½ god protecting him…and w/o it he is a normal human (who is trained)…I’d say he is pretty darn handicapped w/o his blessing…

Another example is from Zelda…now in this case…Put together it sounds like the three gods would be equal to the two gods in the FE universe…but…their power is cut into 3 in this case…Still…Ganondorf is at least more than a normal human w/o his god power being factored in…but…like Ike…Ganondorf has no real right to his power…it’s only there because someone else has allowed it…

Ok cool. I remember SPM now, that was a trippy level. Ok, explain why Mario can stay underwater in all the 2-D scrollers. And in the 3-D platformers... coins = air?

Game mechs. nothing more nothing less…Which is why I think things like Going Bananas/Starmen are BS arguments…because they are more or less reliant on game mechs instead of looking at actual canon stuff that has been done…

For example…Mario has actually thrown a castle with his bare hands in a cut scene for SMW…but the mushroom power-up can have various attributes in each game…and any actual story they have doesn’t always point to “Mario becoming Super Mario”

Goku isn't even in smash. Where'd you bring up Goku? I remember mentioning Spirit Bomb but I mentioned it as a wtfux attack... not Goku.

I brought up Goku only for an example to try and point out how ridiculous the whole “only Link can defeat Ganon/You need this gods protection to hurt Ike” arguments were…I don’t know if my example worked though…considering how people still seem to be pointing out stuff like Going Bananas

game canon is void of logic.

Here is the definition of canon…
”A canon, in terms of a fictional universe, is a body of material that is considered to be "genuine" or "official", that can be directly referenced as, or as if it were, material produced by the original author or creator of a series.”

It’s a lot better to use examples of canon in this debate of “if smash characters where true to their games” than to quote random game mechs. and blindly accepting them as truth like so many people seem to be doing…or how they don’t break down the meaning behind them in some cases…Ike being protected by one god of chaos doesn’t make him 100% better than the other 30 god of chaos references in this thread from others just because they don’t have the same name…they still do the same bloody thing so I hardly think “name” matters at all

Not only bee stings, also attacks from gaint robots, lava, fire and missiles. <_<

Has his greatest foe made a clone of him yet to try and stop him? Oh and again...can you tell me any clear stats about this skill and show reference to it in true game cut scenes as well if you don't mind? (not just game play...but actual references to it from the games canon story showing it being used so we have real proof of what it is instead of just bland biased assumptions for what it is)

Or better yet...why not list some of Diddy Kong's other skills...I know for example he can do a cartwheel, play a guitar, pack a gun that shoots low grade ammo...that sure sounds more powerful than life giving dark magic huh?

 

[missingnomaster]

Are people just ignoring my posts,

It's a very real possibility.

You tend to take real world definitions and theory-crafting (or whatever it's called) over what happens in game. And then you make large walls of text rivaling that of Wiiwouldliketoplay...

It makes people not want to respond to you.

 

[_clinton]

It's a very real possibility.

You tend to take real world definitions and theory-crafting (or whatever it's called) over what happens in game. And then you make large walls of text rivaling that of Wiiwouldliketoplay...

It makes people not want to respond to you.

Explain to me how I'm theory crafting with the Mother games when I actually am posting links/pointing out where you can find my stuff at?

Oh and me taking a real world definition for Samus' speed booster is only done because the game makes a reference to something that has a real world definition in two/three games!

Which is a far more acceptable thing then the absurd statement of invincibility used in the Super Metroid manual...

Plus...the Mother series definition of PK fits the bill for the most common definition of what real world PK is in theory thought to mean as well I might add...

 

[Incurable_Necrophile]

Your definition of a game mechanic is laughable, Raizen. You took a canon-event and made it a game mechanic. A game mechanic would be health meters, ect.

Anyway, Link punches Marth, Marth explodes /discussion.

Also, Link > Samus.

 

[_clinton]

Your definition of a game mechanic is laughable, Raizen. You took a canon-event and made it a game mechanic. A game mechanic would be health meters, ect.

Thank you ^_^

Anyway, Link punches Marth, Marth explodes /discussion.

Marth has rallied an army to fight besides him for his game...but Link is a one man army in himself it seems sometimes...

Marth can't have backup according to the rules...so who cares about his army?

The fact that Marth happens to be packing god stuff of some sort does let him somewhat draw with the fact that Link is packing god stuff as well...but I don't know as much about Marth's god stuff as I do Link's...so I can't make a fair judgment...

But I think Link > Marth though based off what I do know about them...however I wouldn't mind going to hunt for more info/being given more info 1st...

Also, Link > Samus.

Well...I guess we can't agree on everything...oh well

 

[Samochan]

It's a very real possibility.

You tend to take real world definitions and theory-crafting (or whatever it's called) over what happens in game. And then you make large walls of text rivaling that of Wiiwouldliketoplay...

It makes people not want to respond to you.

You shouldn't compare Wii to Clinton. :/

I believe the reason of reluctance to respond to his posts lies elsewhere than the amount of text. Like in the text maybe.

 

[missingnomaster]

You shouldn't compare Wii to Clinton. :/

I believe the reason of reluctance to respond to his posts lies elsewhere than the amount of text. Like in the text maybe.

Well, walls of text in general can be overwhelming. They take forever to respond to, and by the time you do, there's several new replies for you to respond to.

I was only comparing _clinton's ability to make walls of text with Wii's.

~~~

I don't like where this thread is currently going...

 

[Samochan]

I don't like where this thread is currently going...

To be frank, me neither.

Mkay, so we have Link versus Marth. I still have no idea wtf abilites marth has cept he's a swordsman. Where did this god stuff come from anyway, I hadn't seen anyone make that remark when marth was losing his matches and ended up in bottom tier. >_>

Link on the other hand has huge bag of items and magic like nayru that makes him invincible to damage and din which burns opponent when touched. Then long range weapons and ice arrow, which should freeze marth in place.

Guess I'll have to do research again... *sigh*

 

[missingnomaster]

I think Marth's stats in FE made him really good at dodging, and when he gets a critical hit (which I think happens really often) he does a ton of damage.

I think he had to not have Falchion in order to use the Earth Orb, but I think he had some other really good swords too. (one of them was really good at healing him)

That's all I remember though.

 

[justaway12]

Falchion healed Marth.

Salem normally debated for the FE guys.
I think the Earth Orb attacked wherever Marth wanted to attack.

I remember he said that.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

edit: Ray kalm how is he going to teleport when he is already frozen in time?

Well, I meant it in the sense of before Sonic stops time.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Your definition of a game mechanic is laughable, Raizen. You took a canon-event and made it a game mechanic. A game mechanic would be health meters, ect.

Actually, while I do consider health meters and such game mechanics, I also consider anything that isn't described a game mechanic. Or, something occurring only once in a game that was never talked about again. But, now that I think about it, the example I used wasn't really a good one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEK6nVUEr68

@Clinton: If you were to provide actual evidence of your 'canon' information, then you'd get a lot more people to believe you.

 

[Samochan]

Falchion healed Marth.

Salem normally debated for the FE guys.
I think the Earth Orb attacked wherever Marth wanted to attack.

I remember he said that.

But didn't marth lose orbs when he obtained Falchion? So in a sense, he could only have either in canon, not both. At Marth's max power, canonically he's unable to have both falchion and orbs because of the ingame trade that happens. Both items do not exists as usable for Marth in the same time. Different games we are able to mix, cause characters obtain powers from each game, but marth having both items at once would break canon. Kinda like how pokemon can only have 4 moves and you have to sacrifice one move in order to learn a new one. If marth were to have both orbs and falchion even though canonically he lost the orbs to obtain falchion, pokemons should also have all the moves available to them, at once, cause the tradeoff is the same.

 

[justaway12]

IDK, ask Salem, anyway, I would say he keep the Falchion since it heals him...or the earth orbs since he can attack far away.

...
I honestly don't know anything about these two ._.
Why am I here? xD

 

[missingnomaster]

But didn't marth lose orbs when he obtained Falchion? So in a sense, he could only have either in canon, not both. At Marth's max power, canonically he's unable to have both falchion and orbs because of the ingame trade that happens. Kinda like how pokemon can only have 4 moves and you have to sacrifice one move in order to learn a new one. If marth were to have both orbs and falchion even though canonically he lost the orbs to obtain falchion, pokemons should also have all the moves available to them, at once, cause the tradeoff is the same.

Actually, it's possible to argue that the 4 move limit is a game mechanic due to the fact that pokemon vary in power, intelligence, and stamina, and thus should not be equally limited to 4 moves.

So that's not the best comparison.

 

[Kewkky]

... I think we should leave the Dragon out of this thread. It's too complicated, and never used in the game (in reality, it never affects Lucas' battle system, so why would we use it in battles here? The only time it's used is in the storyline, and all it does is end the world, but make everyone survive, even the bad guys. So, what it would do here in this thread, is destroy the battlefield, but both characters are still unharmed).

As for the invincibility stuff: We should compare the invincibilities with what they are pitted against. Ike is in a world where magic, swords, axes, bows and all that medieval whatnot is rampant, and that is the world Yune gave Ike the blessing. Sure, she said that Ike couldn't be harmed due to the blessing, but who's to say some incredible force from another universe (one that's not medieval) could be strong enough to break through the blessing? All this talk about Ike surviving the most ******** situations due to the blessing is facepalming: there's lots of ways you can kill something, without actually harming it... You could cut off the flow of air and he'd suffocate, or spin him so fast his body's structure won't take it, or bury him alive, or throw him in lava, etc... Like that example someone said back there, what can Ike do if he was thrown into space? Lots of characters won't be able to do this, but there are others who can (Kirby and his warpstar, Samus and her ship's grapple beam, Super Sonic, etc). What can Ike do about thise things?

Ganondorf could be beaten by sumbission, but never killed. So, all it takes for someone in this thread to beat him, is make him go into submission yet again. Now, how each character will be able to do that is a mystery to me... I can't argue about Ganondorf's invulnerability, though, since a castle fell on him in OoT and he was still in one piece (but then, in that same game, Link stabbed his face with the Master Sword and Ganon survived, so he was banished to some random place, yet in WW, Ganon got his face stabbed and turned to stone... ???). And for the purposes of the thread, all "light" weaponry or magic should be used the same way as "light' arrows: stun Ganon (stun and NOT beat, beating him will have to come from something else... And if characters would only have the option of stunning him and not beating him, then Ganon wins because sooner or later, the other character WILL have to cease the onslaught and face Ganon's anger).

I still think Super Sonic's time limit should be 50 rings (500 seconds, or 8mins and 20seconds), since I've never really seen Sonic ever as Super Sonic for more than 5mins in-game. Cutscenes could have all sorts of explanations (like Sonic Advance's ending where Sonic was Super for 3 days, he could've found rings while returning to earth), so we should use in-game limitations and in-game accomplishments instead of cutscene accomplishments.

In fact, since Ike has never shown his blessed invincibility (since when he got it others could still hurt him in the game so we never actually got to see him invincible), who's to say something can get through? Ashunera says Ike will never be hurt, but she is a goddess in a medieval setting. Like I said before, who's to say some non-medieval thing WILL hurt Ike? Maybe her blessing only works with what she's seen to be the most powerful forces in her universe, which are (and I restate) medieval things.

 

[Samochan]

Actually, it's possible to argue that the 4 move limit is a game mechanic due to the fact that pokemon vary in power, intelligence, and stamina, and thus should not be equally limited to 4 moves.

So that's not the best comparison.

Well I could argue. Pokemon only forget those moves, but can be re-learned via heart scales so they're not even completely forgotten. And it would be game mechanics to make the battling system viable and strategic.

But maybe I should've used the young link to adult link comparison instead. The point still stands though.

Kewkky makes some good points here.

But I'd imagine that if Ike were blessed by a goddess via magic and all and then other people who are also blessed by goddess magic can harm him, would this mean ike can still be harmed by magic/someone with a blessing, casted by someone who's strenght equals that of Ashera? Or is just a goddess in default, goddesses in general have lots of strenght anyway and god powers, so we can't make too much diffrentation between them. What about if someone were to actually... strip the blessing from him? Curse him? I believe he was only invulnerable to damage. =) Magic in general ignores the laws of the universe. (unless the magic he has possibly blocked was just that :/ )

Goddesses in ninty games haven't ever been depicted as entities that can prevent all harm. Heck, they usually sit around and wait while the hero saves the day, or when incapable of doing it themselves (lol), bless the main character or grant them strenght in other ways. So it would be believable even their strenght is not infallible in some ways.

Oh snap, 3k post. Whoot. =D

 

[BSP]

Well, I meant it in the sense of before Sonic stops time.

Or what if Sonic stops time while MK is in the Halberd, warps in, and finishes him? MK doesnt know about sonic's abilities, does he? I know he can teleport, but unless it's infinite, he will be caught by a time stop, or caught by SS.

Lol wut?

Are people just ignoring my posts, it seems that way because when I bring up the fact that Lucas has two modes of transportation at his disposal that will allowing to fly (Pork n’ Beans, Mr. Saturn Pork n’ Beans)…that sort of counters the whole “can’t reach argument issue…

Wrong. Pork Bean only hovers over the ground, and is nevver shown to fly. If mr. saturns pork n beans is that bird cage thing, he's gonna get shot down pretty fast....


The chaos emeralds have been used to power machinery…I don’t buy that whole only such and such can use them argument at all…Blaze has also used them Blaze used the SOL emeralds... …

The chaos emeralds really don’t sound that different from psychic powers at all…they both control chaos in case you don’t get that… ok, yes, i do get that

And the emeralds are hardly on a different level than the psychic powers of Ness/Lucas…again…they have been quoted as people who can do whatever they want with them… Ness strikes fear into a being that can destroy the universe because they happen to have the same potential…Lucas’ power (which again…is Ness’ in a different form…if you look at everything surrounding the info on them) when it was dormant has also protected people from the end of everything…plus there are people being brought back from the dead in different ways all the time in the Mother games…either as a spirit or something else… show me

As for Mewtwo…I don’t know enough about him to speak of any reference to him screwing with the dead…but considering how the Pokemon world is packed full of beings that control life/death and so on…and Mewtwo is seen as a deadly Mother ****er still…I wouldn’t play into calling him weak… didnt say he was, i just said the emeralds are stronger



So…explain to me how Lucas loses again if speed is any issue? (oh and Bowser is hardly open to pain easily…the guy takes baths in molten magma and just won’t ****ing die) I don't know. I didnt make that decision



Shadow has shown proof that he has more power at least in regards to controlling chaos energy (I’m not saying Shadow>Sonic…just stating that Shadow does have some plus’) Plus again…Sonic and Shadow take turns RECHARGING their energy in that fight… That was the one thing that 'proved' they needed rings, the chaaracters said it themselves. We've established SS's limit already

They were clearly pressed for time in that fight… again, we kept the limit



Why would cut scenes not count? They are far more backing to canon strength than anything else…

What does 50 rings mean again? We don’t know…all they mean for game play is that they are a measurement on how long said characters can keep their charge in their super form (which btw it the reason he has the ring count…because canon wise…the super forms have been shown to have limits…and rings usually count for that)…but…that is all we do know…is 50 rings=to 20 heart containers? Or are they only worth 1? Who can really say what they are worth? Sonic isn’t Zelda ^_^ We agreed that true to sonic 3 and 2, normal sonic can get all his rings (1104 atm) and then transform when he needs to


A "god" is a "god" people

Ike's god isn't any more special than the Mario universes gods...or the Zelda Universe's...

Is there a way we can measure each 'god's' power?

Metaknight can teleport away by using dimensional cape. He transcends space itself by wrapping himself in the cape and teleporting away.

And Sonic controls space itself with chaos control. Is dimmensional cape infinite?

@GenoGar: Well, Mariobrouser had brought up some really good points about how Super Sonic's ring limit was a game mechanic, but they apparently got disproven somehow. In SA2 battle, sonic and shadow reapetedly say 'get rings', or something to that extent. It doesnt explain why, but it's really hard to disprove this, if you can, go ahead. But until then, sonic gets 3 hours like we said

Still, Sonic can remain Super for around 3 hours best case scenario.

Red stuff mid quote are replies. Even with limited super sonic, if he can't beat the foe in 3 hours, infinite might not make a Dif. anyway (at least, vs an invincible opponent like Ike, where sonic can't hurt him(unless that's changed)

@Kewkky

But true to the actual gameplay of Sonic 2 and 3, once you collect the emeralds, you can go super/hyper whenever you want, not just the final boss. Since sonic can collect his max rings before he transforms (1104) he gets the 3 hours.

 

[missingnomaster]

... I think we should leave the Dragon out of this thread. It's too complicated, and never used in the game (in reality, it never affects Lucas' battle system, so why would we use it in battles here? The only time it's used is in the storyline, and all it does is end the world, but make everyone survive, even the bad guys. So, what it would do here in this thread, is destroy the battlefield, but both characters are still unharmed).
I hate to be the antagonist here, but what bad guys were shown to survive?
As for the invincibility stuff: We should compare the invincibilities with what they are pitted against. Ike is in a world where magic, swords, axes, bows and all that medieval whatnot is rampant, and that is the world Yune gave Ike the blessing. Sure, she said that Ike couldn't be harmed due to the blessing, but who's to say some incredible force from another universe (one that's not medieval) could be strong enough to break through the blessing?How would that be different from Ganondorf's invulnerability then? All this talk about Ike surviving the most ******** situations due to the blessing is facepalming: there's lots of ways you can kill something, without actually harming it... You could cut off the flow of air and he'd suffocate, or spin him so fast his body's structure won't take it, or bury him alive, or throw him in lava, etc... Like that example someone said back there, what can Ike do if he was thrown into space? Lots of characters won't be able to do this, but there are others who can (Kirby and his warpstar, Samus and her ship's grapple beam, Super Sonic, etc). What can Ike do about thise things?
How exactly could Kirby put someone in space with the Warpstar?
Ganondorf could be beaten by sumbission, but never killed. So, all it takes for someone in this thread to beat him, is make him go into submission yet again.Well, good luck with that. If you think Ganondorf is going to succumb to mundane assault, then you haven't seen in TP where he pulls a sacred sword out of his chest while laughing, after he suddenly receives the Triforce of Power. Now, how each character will be able to do that is a mystery to me... I can't argue about Ganondorf's invulnerability, though, since a castle fell on him in OoT and he was still in one piece (but then, in that same game, Link stabbed his face with the Master Sword and Ganon survived, so he was banished to some random place, yet in WW, Ganon got his face stabbed and turned to stone... ???).The difference is that in OoT Ganondorf had the ToP, but in WW, he didn't at the final battle. And for the purposes of the thread, all "light" weaponry or magic should be used the same way as "light' arrows: stun Ganon (stun and NOT beat, beating him will have to come from something else... I don't really see the logic behind that statement, but don't have anything to say against it right now.And if characters would only have the option of stunning him and not beating him, then Ganon wins because sooner or later, the other character WILL have to cease the onslaught and face Ganon's anger).

I still think Super Sonic's time limit should be 50 rings (500 seconds, or 8mins and 20seconds), since I've never really seen Sonic ever as Super Sonic for more than 5mins in-game. Cutscenes could have all sorts of explanations (like Sonic Advance's ending where Sonic was Super for 3 days, he could've found rings while returning to earth), so we should use in-game limitations and in-game accomplishments instead of cutscene accomplishments.I'm against this based on the way the thread works, because characters are allowed to come to the match fully prepared already.

In fact, since Ike has never shown his blessed invincibility (since when he got it others could still hurt him in the game so we never actually got to see him invincible), who's to say something can get through? Ashunera says Ike will never be hurt, but she is a goddess in a medieval setting. Like I said before, who's to say some non-medieval thing WILL hurt Ike? Maybe her blessing only works with what she's seen to be the most powerful forces in her universe, which are (and I restate) medieval things.

I believe it was stated multiple times that once Ike becomes blessed, all of the enemies you fight after that are also blessed.
Also: I don't like responding in quotes, but it's really difficult to respond to a lot of information like that. So I apologize in advance.
Edit2: That navy blue probably wasn't the best choice of color..

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Or what if Sonic stops time while MK is in the Halberd, warps in, and finishes him? MK doesnt know about sonic's abilities, does he? I know he can teleport, but unless it's infinite, he will be caught by a time stop, or caught by SS.

I never really thought of it this way.

I'll go and change the results now, unless someone's against it?