Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Kewkky]

Not quite missignomaster... ****ing bowser is too heavy and big to be sucked into darkburst. And even if it ohkos every enemy regardless (not bosses), I doubt it would do so against Bowser, esp not invulnerable one. But maybe it would suck his star rod from him. =D

We could just grapple the Star Rod, but darkburst is flashier. And we could also just shoot him, since he can't start out invincible, he needs time to wish for it.


Dang, double posted. Sorry.

 

[Incurable_Necrophile]

Link throws his shield at Marth, Marth McDies. O-o Someone counter this argument.

edit: Wait, am I too late to argue that one?

 

[Samochan]

Link throws his shield at Marth, Marth McDies. O-o Someone counter this argument.

Link is a sucker and can't throw his shield, it's not even throwable. >_>

Bowser uses Teleport.

Radar is good. =) He leaves a shadow behind anyway, Samus would only need to keep a lookout and Bowser's teleporting is slow and not too ranged. (if you mean the mario 64 one).

 

[REL38]

Exactly what's the game description of the DarkBurst?

In Echoes, even Space Pirates would resist from being sucked into it until they essentially get weaken from the damage it inflicts.
Then they're sucked in.

I don't believe Dark Burst would suck in Bowser, Ganon or SSonic.

 

[missingnomaster]

Link throws his shield at Marth, Marth McDies. O-o Someone counter this argument.

edit: Wait, am I too late to argue that one?

Shields are awkward to throw and don't travel at Mach 31.

And no, you aren't too late. You can still debate characters after the matchup has officially ended.

Well, I believe rings should be out of the question because they are not collectable items Sonic can carry through stages, but items he needs to obtain from the stage itself. It's the exact same scenario as Mario's caps or Boo hat, for example. Or coins or healt... Sonic doesn't even have inventory and he must collect all rings throughout the stage, but never retains his rings. Heck, one contact with the enemy makes him lose each and every ring he carries. <_>

Super sonic with 50 rings is possible though. After that he loses super sonicness and is forced to fight as normal sonic.

Not quite missignomaster... ****ing bowser is too heavy and big to be sucked into darkburst. And even if it ohkos every enemy regardless (not bosses), I doubt it would do so against Bowser, esp not invulnerable one. But maybe it would suck his star rod from him. =D Or Samus could charge up and shoot before Bowser finishes invincibility (takes 8 seconds). Or she could use her grapple beam to steal it, she can grab missile recharges and healt from afar if you use grapple. This is only for recharges though, so it's only plausible theory. She can grab shields on the other hand, which are not recharges... D:

I didn't mean Darkburst would defeat every single character on the roster, simply that it was the only attack (to my knowledge) that could defeat an invincible opponent, provided they aren't too heavy.

Samus may be able to deal enough damage to kill Bowser with her stacked beam before he becomes invincible. (Nova Beam does insane damage if it hits a target's brain, which Plasma Beam allows it to do.)

 

[BSP]

What are we still talking about Sonic's starting ring count? I thought we said it would be 1104...

@cureent matchup

Ness has his bat, equipment(but i dont knoww all the effects, clinton might) and a huge amount of PSI. He has the almighty PSI rockin for attacking, life up gamma to heal all his hp, paralysis, hypnosis, and flash to screw/one hit ko peach, and he has shield a(halves physical damage, including lasers) shield b(halves and counters physical damage), and a franklin badge to deflect lightning. Ness also has healing to cure any status effect he may get. He can also teleport (which lets him run really fast) if he needs to. He has about 800 PP at the end of his game, plus he has PP resstoring items and bombs and hp restoring items. That's just the basics, ness may have more.

As for peach, hitting ness is a no-no since he can counter any of her physical attacks. Her best bet may be to use the stopwatch to hit ness, and keep spamming it, and attempt to heal the countered damage. *prepares for some post about how ness can control time*. Does peach's umbrella invincibility from SPM work here? And remember, Peach has limited item space...ness can out survive and out power her.

Anyway, I think ness has the advantage. He can overwhelm peach with his psychic attacks, and counter any damage peach does to him. Ness has more survivability as well. But don't end this too fast please, im sure there's stuff peach has that i dont know about. Does she get mario and luigi's items (like starmen, etc.)?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

What's with these sudden doubts?

Even before gaining the Triforce of Power, Ganondorf was arguably one of the most powerful men in the entire land of Hyrule. He was an immensely powerful sorcerer with vast mystical resources, and as the King of the Gerudo, he also possessed political power. Once Ganondorf gained the Triforce of Power, however, his abilities, both physical and mystical, were augmented to god-like proportions, his power unrivaled by any mortal. Ganondorf became utterly unstoppable, conquering Hyrule with ease. As seen in the events of Twilight Princess, the Triforce of Power also grants Ganondorf immortality. Using its power, he has endured mortal wounds (such as having his heart pierced by a sword), only to remain alive and unrelenting. In addition to his incredible strength, invulnerability, and magical abilities, Ganondorf has proven himself to be a very talented swordsman, as seen in the final battles between Ganondorf and Link in The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Ganondorf also has an unnaturally long lifespan, if not indefinite; he has lived through ages of Hyrulean chronology.

While Dragmire did need Zant's help to escape the Twilight Realm, he granted Zant a fraction of his power in return for the opportunity to escape the Twilight Realm. Zant was using Ganon's power to help him.

 

[Samochan]

Exactly what's the game description of the DarkBurst?

In Echoes, even Space Pirates would resist from being sucked into it until they essentially get weaken from the damage it inflicts.
Then they're sucked in.

I don't believe Dark Burst would suck in Bowser, Ganon or SSonic.

What? >_> The darkburst is the best weapon to use against Pirate commandos, hands down, cause it instakills if hit. It an ohko against every light creature, even glenchrels (cept bosses), dark creatures of dark aether however resist the dark matter it was composed off. But believe it or not, it takes away 1/3 of Dark samus health on the final battle if a direct hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0fxcdsvnyU

You can see that the first shot he shoots hits a box, but the darkburst is an instant ohko against a pirate commando, which otherwise can tank a super missile shot without dying.

Dark beam is not too effective against dark creatures, so you might mean Dark Pirate commandos.

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/File:Darkburst.jpg

You can even see a poor pirate commando getting pwned by darkburst on the bg.

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/File:Aero_Darkburst.png

This features a Pirate aerotroper ripped apart by darkburst. Bad quality, but I believe you can see it on the left... the shot either went through him or the range is that huge. o.o;

Scan Info:The Darkburst is the Dark Charge Combo. This potent blast opens a
rift to a dark dimension, pulling enemies to oblivion. Samus's Notes:Firing
a Darkbust shot requires 5 Missiles and 30 Dark Ammo. The Darkburst is a
slow moving blast. It is limited against agile and rapid moving targets.

Dark dimension is not dark aether dimension however, but another dimension entirely.

 

[Kewkky]

I am lol'ing at the Darkburst's info. Samus is truly broken here.

 

[justaway12]

Radar is good. =) He leaves a shadow behind anyway, Samus would only need to keep a lookout and Bowser's teleporting is slow and not too ranged. (if you mean the mario 64 one).

I'm talking about Galaxy
no shadow, not slow, and Super Mario 64s last battle, the teleport wasn't slow.

Bowser has faced darkburst like things before.

 

[Incurable_Necrophile]

Wait, are people seriously trying to argue Samus could beat Ganondorf?


....LOOOOOOL.

 

[Samochan]

I'm talking about Galaxy
no shadow, not slow, and Super Mario 64s last battle, the teleport wasn't slow.

I haven't seen the galaxy teleport, but I guess I'll search tube for it. Samus can track teleporting opponens via her dark visor though.

Dark Pirate commando: "Extremely powerful, they also share the Hunter Ing ability to phase out of the local time-space, "teleporting" from one location to next, leaving after images to confound their opponent; while teleporting, they are only visible through the Dark Visor. This system is similar to the one used by the Chozo Ghosts in Metroid Prime. "

Though as it takes 8 seconds for Bowser's invincibility to activate, I believe samus should nuke the whole area with Omega cannon if darkburst is not a viable option.

Darkburst is unique in a way that you use dark beam + missiles to do it, it's a Luminoth technology made from their battles against Ing. Even though outwardly similar to whatever black hole things, I doubt it's alike what Bowser has faced before. But last time I checked, even Bowser (nor mario) can survive a black hole.

On another note, ironically enough, dark beam's charge shot Entangler is the best way to tackle Dark Pirate commandos even though dark creatures resist dark beam. Just fire, they teleport, entangler follows and freezes 'em, shoot a missile = dead pirate.

 

[missingnomaster]

Wait, are people seriously trying to argue Samus could beat Ganondorf?


....LOOOOOOL.

The combination of Light Beam and Dark Burst seems kind of problematic for Ganondorf.

 

[ShadowLink84]

The omega cannon is also harmful to Samus. -_-
She'd fire it off, then die. She needs to have some form of cover.

 

[justaway12]

Bowser is impervious to OHKO because of his accersory in SMRPG.

If he gets far enough, he could just get enough time, obivously....or stop time.

They have survived black hole in SPM.

 

[BSP]

Samochan, Bowser's invincibility takes 3 seconds to activate, not 8

So samus has a chance vs. Ganon now?

 

[Samochan]

Bowser is impervious to OHKO because of his accersory in SMRPG.

If he gets far enough, he could just get enough time, obivously....or stop time.

They have survived black hole in SPM.

They, you mean Mario and Bowser correct? But they don't in galaxy, which has actual black holes. Many stages in galaxy have black holes, and if mario missjumps, he'll end up sucked into there and dies. Is the SPM black hole done by magic or something? (cause Paper Mario obv doesn't happen in space.. or does it? <_>).

How far could Bowser teleport in galaxy though?

Samochan, Bowser's invincibility takes 3 seconds to activate, not 8

It takes 8 seconds to fully activate before bowser puts away his star rod. 3 seconds before the invincibility first appears though, but it's only partial as the star rod continues to fullfill his wish. Not forgetting this all doesn't include the time bowser would need to grab his star rod from somewhere (com'on, it just appears on his hand on spm out of nowhere >_>; ) If someone were to get this star rod in due that time where Bowser uses it, the invincibility would only be partial.

 

[justaway12]

Well, he could teleport to different galaxies, summon a boulder defence, change the law of gravity, etc. all quicker than stop watch and invincibilities.

In SPM it kind of was by magic, but it was a very similar to Samus', and if it had the power of Galaxies black hole she would die too.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Samus has a chance, but that doesn't mean she'll win.

I'll save my arguments for when we get to that match-up.

 

[PowerBomb]

There is no reason for Samus to use Darkburst vs. Bowser.

Imperialist towards brain... if Bowser has one.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Peach seems relentlessly hopeless in the current match-up. About to move on.

 

[BSP]

Peach seems relentlessly hopeless in the current match-up. About to move on.

Too fast if you ask me. I there anyone here who can defend peach?

 

[Incurable_Necrophile]

Samus has a chance, but that doesn't mean she'll win.

No she doesn't. Ganon TK's her. Game. :\

 

[BSP]

No she doesn't. Ganon TK's her. Game. :\

correct me if im wrong, but im sure a headshot with the imperialist will at keast make ganin flinch long enough for samus to darkburst or something.

Let's save it till we get to the matchup

 

[PowerBomb]

No she doesn't. Ganon TK's her. Game. :\

Yeah, no.

TK what? I'd like proof Ganon TK's stuff.

He probably does, but I haven't played a Zelda game in ****ing ages.

EDIT: I know Ganon will probably win, but I want to iron things out.

 

[justaway12]

Peach seems relentlessly hopeless in the current match-up. About to move on.

There wasn't any disscusion about it. At all.

 

[missingnomaster]

Yeah, no.

TK what? I'd like proof Ganon TK's stuff.

He probably does, but I haven't played a Zelda game in ****ing ages.

In TP, after Ganondorf possesses Zelda, he blasts Midna back with what seems to be telekinesis.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

There wasn't any disscusion about it. At all.

Well, there was that one bit that Mario posted. Pretty much summed up the result.

I'll let it run for a while longer.

 

[PowerBomb]

In TP, after Ganondorf possesses Zelda, he blasts Midna back with what seems to be telekinesis.

Now I remember. kthx

EDIT: That telekinesis wasn't extreme though, was it?

 

[Incurable_Necrophile]

In OoT he levitates a castle, then destrys it with TK... So yeah, it's extreme.

The imperialist? In TP Midna hits Ganon so hard the castle explodes around him. He's UNHURT. :| Dark burst? Incredibly slow, ineffective, and just generally pointless against Ganon, who can by the way seal her in the gap between dimensions, as seen in OoT.

 

[missingnomaster]

Now I remember. kthx

EDIT: That telekinesis wasn't extreme though, was it?

It sent Midna back quite far, but Midna doesn't seem like she would be all that heavy.

 

[justaway12]

@cureent matchup

Ness has his bat, equipment(but i dont knoww all the effects, clinton might) and a huge amount of PSI. He has the almighty PSI rockin for attacking, life up gamma to heal all his hp, paralysis, hypnosis, and flash to screw/one hit ko peach, and he has shield a(halves physical damage, including lasers) shield b(halves and counters physical damage), and a franklin badge to deflect lightning. Ness also has healing to cure any status effect he may get. He can also teleport (which lets him run really fast) if he needs to. He has about 800 PP at the end of his game, plus he has PP resstoring items and bombs and hp restoring items. That's just the basics, ness may have more.

Peach isn't effected by OHKO, she can't be hyponosised, paralyised and etc. as well, because of her acessory in SMRPG.
Peach can heal herself too.

As for peach, hitting ness is a no-no since he can counter any of her physical attacks. Her best bet may be to use the stopwatch to hit ness, and keep spamming it, and attempt to heal the countered damage. *prepares for some post about how ness can control time*. Does peach's umbrella invincibility from SPM work here? And remember, Peach has limited item space...ness can out survive and out power her.

She doesn't have a lot of limited item space she has like 15+ items at least and her attacks were stronger than Bowsers.
Peach can deflect all of his physical attacks too.

 

[PowerBomb]

In OoT he levitates a castle, then destrys it with TK... So yeah, it's extreme.

The imperialist? In TP Midna hits Ganon so hard the castle explodes around him. He's UNHURT. :| Dark burst? Incredibly slow, ineffective, and just generally pointless against Ganon, who can by the way seal her in the gap between dimensions, as seen in OoT.

Let's save it for the match-up; debating other things during the MU at hand clogs the discussion up.

Is that alright?

 

[Incurable_Necrophile]

I might be banned again by then, but sure.

 

[REL38]

@Samo

Whoops.
I was thinking of Dark Commandos :/
But the Dark Burst had trouble budging the large "Destroyers?"(the guys who had dark/light absorbing balls for hands)
It's safe to assume Bowser weighs plenty more to resist being sucked in.

Also, Star Rod invincibility did not take 8 seconds at all.
I'd link a vid, but I'm using my phone :/

@Imperialist
I'm still iffy about the Imperialist OHKO'n via headshot.
I don't remember it quite like that when I owned the game.
Regardless, Justaway says there's an equip preventing OHKO moves in SMRPG.

EDIT:
I'll argue this when the time comes as Powerbomb suggested.

 

[justaway12]

There is and life shrooms as well.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I might be banned again by then, but sure.

Dryn won't be back for a while.

and, as I said before, I'm not discussing Samus Vs. Ganon till we get there.

 

[PowerBomb]

I might be banned again by then, but sure.

Sheesh

I don't know whether to facepalm or lulz at that.

EDIT: Guys, focus at the MU @ hand

Does Ness have an item to stop status? I'm pretty sure he does, so Peach's status attacks are null.

 

[justaway12]

So are Ness', read my reply to bouser.

 

[IsmaR]

In OoT he levitates a castle, then destrys it with TK... So yeah, it's extreme.

The imperialist? In TP Midna hits Ganon so hard the castle explodes around him. He's UNHURT. :| Dark burst? Incredibly slow, ineffective, and just generally pointless against Ganon, who can by the way seal her in the gap between dimensions, as seen in OoT.

The explosion was from both of them colliding, not just Midna hitting him.

Bowser vs Samus = Samus grapples away Star Rod, speed boosts out of range, then Omega Cannon/Sonic Boom/insertweaponhere. lol

Destroyer = Ingsmasher, and those have built-in resistances for both light and dark. Weight doesn't have that much to do with it. And Samus could get an Imperialist headshot > 1 power beam shot in the case of OHKO's being impossible.

Dryn should be back by Christmas break in a couple of weeks, hope he makes it in time for the match-up :[