Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[Judo Chop Action Super Buddha]

Any hint that uses "mindgames" loses my respect instantly.

 

[KingK]

Any hint that uses "mindgames" loses my respect instantly.

I know what you mean. The word is tossed around on these boards more than an inflatable beach ball at an outdoor concert.

 

[kupo15]

Oh i think it might be PIT! Everything matches so perfectly. A great projectile and there are huge disagreements with "useless" AT's". Pit has many AT's thus far and still has the potential. Noone except a Pit main who knows how to use him can really see the value in his AT's and only a select few know how to use them. The rest of the ppl think he is a spammer thus causing disagreements left and right. Ppl think he is horrible against snake but I disagree. Ridiculous priority on glide attack, Dtilt, Ftilt.

It sounds like Pit and I am crossing my fingers! XD

 

[Luigi player]

Maybe it's Ness, since his games aren't in every region and such...

 

[Timbers]

It's not Olimar. It's not Lucario. It's not Fox.

Pikachu or Pit really fit the bill.

 

[eskimo bob]

I didn't think of pikachu before reading what the other people here have replied because I honestly have never fought a pikachu that isn't played by a certain friend of mine that doesn't spam thunder... when I think about it that makes the hint even more fitting for that little rat.

all right, after reading some more replies I'm gonna add this: afaik pit does not have a good match-up against snake, but hey that fuels both parts of the "this character may or may not have a good match-up against snake" part in both directions, but I do not see why he would. however I don't know many techniques that pikachu have that can be used as mindgames... at all. the only one I know really are his cgs and I don't think that should count as mindgames.

 

[chucklesXcore]

I really am hoping it is Pit. All of the description definitely lines up. A lot of people see him as just a spammer or an average character. Most think he is the "noob" character because most pick him up and spam it up with arrows or angel ring. But if you've ever played someone who is actually good with him you would know he has epic mind games. He has tons of options, and his priority IS ridiculous. Up air beats out almost any down air I've seen if done properly. (even Link's Dair I believe, don't quote me on that though) And the rest of his moves at least are equal with everything and cancel them out. His projectile game is absolutely amazing in my opinion The arrows, because they can be controlled make his projectile game one of the best. Combine that with all his advanced techniques such as Arrow looping and you can seriously mess with someone's mind if you know what you're doing. I am going to take a swing at it and guess Pit. Because while he isn't that underrated, a lot of people fail to see the potential he has. They see him as an "always will be average" character.

 

[infomon]

His aerial game is of the highest priority along with Ness & few others.

Sigh.... aerials don't really have priority; the game just checks how much they're overlapping the opponent. See The Physics of Attacks thread. That being said, they seem to have very high priority because they come out fast, and..... suddenly you have a Pikmin shoved into you o_O

 

[Aminar]

I doubt it's Pit, because that would make me happy. That said I agree Pit has a good matchup against Snake. You can kill his nade game, recovery, dsmash, and do reasonably well against the overrated ubertilts with Pit. Mortar sliding is negligable too, Pit can arrow it pretty easy, AR it pretty easy etc.

 

[MK26]

It's quiet. Toooooo quiet.

Where are all the Ike fanboys? Not one person has yet said the next update is Ike! Have they finally given up?

Either way, its Pika. No doubt. Show me a video of a Pit actually beating a Snake, and I might think the matchup is even

 

[Gory snake]

I think this is referring to online wifi. Fox is a character that works of speed and quick combos. Its quite difficult to accomplish either when there is significant lag.

Region = where you live, not how you play

 

[biohazard930]

It's quiet. Toooooo quiet.

Where are all the Ike fanboys? Not one person has yet said the next update is Ike! Have they finally given up?

Either way, its Pika. No doubt. Show me a video of a Pit actually beating a Snake, and I might think the matchup is even

d00d it fitz 2 cuz ikes sord is big enuf 2 b a projektile

 

[M@v]

Region = where you live, not how you play

I know. what i meant was if you live far away from the opponent, your going to lag, causing problems. if your close, you will ave nearly none. But The comment about japan loving him and america thinkings hes so-so fits the bill even more than what I said.

 

[infomon]

I don't think WiFi play is generally considered at all around here. High-level Brawl play is really upset by lag, even subtle lag.

 

[Kirio]

Luigi.

Huge priority attacks, varied opinions, and easy punishment with jump out of shield attacks/firepunch

 

[WolfCypher]

Update #15: ?????

Depending on the region where you live, you could think this character is horrible or that this character is incredible. And depending on who you talk to, this character could have a great matchup against Snake, or could have a bad matchup against him. But everyone can agree that this character is awesome at punishing even the smallest of openings that your opponent shows. Include this character's awesome projectile game, ridiculous priority on some attacks, and incredible mindgames because of certain techniques, this character has quite a bit of potential. But only certain people can truly use (or even see) this potential, which is likely why there is such a difference in opinion.

Can you guess who next week's character will be?

Sounds an awfully lot like Lucario. So many people feel Lucario is too flawed or too difficult to learn (I myself found Lucario to be the most challeneging of my mains to learn, and it took months before I got really good with it), but in reality, Lucario has amazing prowess.

It could also be Samus. The amazing projectiles (plural) makes me think it has to be a character with more than one projectile. From her Missiles to her Super Missiles to her Charge Shot...that's three. Just like Lucario, I'm pretty sure a LOT of people underestimate her.

 

[Anomilus]

Uh...Samus was already listed.

It sounds like Falco to me.

...

Except Falco was already done as well.... >_<;

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i think its lucario he is big in some areas midwest for example but i might of seen one once here on long island, and in the midwest he is doing very well

 

[kupo15]

Well about pika/lucario, the hint says "awesome mindgames due to certain techniques" which implies more than one. The only pika I can think of is QAC which has some mindgame potential. Pit has many AT's that outdo the QAC including Wingdashing and arrow looping to name two. Serious question but what AT's does lucario have to offer? I dont remember anything to groundbreaking as far as AT's goes and esp ones of awesome mindgame stature. I would also say that I think Pit's projectile beats both Pika and Lucario's.

MK26: I will have vids of Pit vs Snake as soon as I play my friend which will hopefully be this weekend. I have beaten snakes before and I can say that snake is an even matchup slightly in Pit's favor IMO. There is nothing Snake has over Pit that can be applied to everyone in the cast.

Pit has a lot of AT's in which 95% of Pit players dont know how to use them effectively so they dismiss them as useless. 5% of Pit players I would say do or so it seems. And if you arent one of the the few Pit players that can use them or have played against one, you most likely feel it is stupid and pointless hence the "But only certain people can truly use (or even see) this potential, which is likely why there is such a difference in opinion."

That being said, I think that Pit fits the description to a 'T'. Pit still has potential to improve and maybe there is at least one more AT to squeeze out of him.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pikachu, I think.

Or maybe Lucario. Both seem to be interesting topics of concern for Snake.

 

[kupo15]

I think we are all aware of Pit's "potential."

He is, after all, the game's best spammer.

Actually, I think Oli is the king of spam. His pikmin annoy me more than a pit's arrows and coming from a pit main, thats saying something lol. Pit is easily punshed for spam

 

[=ArtH=]

I think it's Shiek.

 

[WolfCypher]

I understand people's hatred for Angel Ring spammers, but to say that using the Arrows over and over is spam? Well, what SHOULD one do if their character has one of the fastest projectiles in the game? If I have enough space between you and I, of course I'm going to Arrow barrage you. I'm forcing the opponent to come to me, I see no reason why Pit users shouldn't use the Arrow heavily.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Well I just picked up Pit yesterday, and I love him, and I think he fits. I think he has a good matchup against Snake, you can mess up the course of his Nikita with arrows, it's so funny!

 

[psykoplympton]

hasnt pit already been done?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well the thing about Pit is last time I talked to Inui (a former professional Pit main), he said that Snake was Pit's worst matchup.

 

[Samuelson]

Serious question but what AT's does lucario have to offer? I dont remember anything to groundbreaking as far as AT's goes and esp ones of awesome mindgame stature.

Extremestop

Extremeshift

Extremehog

Extremecling

FPCG

Reverse Double Team

He has some cool ledge tactics too.

Hopefully this answers your question. I don't think this next one is Lucario however. I have a feeling it's Olimar.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I think its Mewtwo.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I think its Mewtwo.

Impossible. Didn't you see the, Depending on the region where you live, you could think this character is horrible or that this character is incredible, part of the hint?

Who could POSSIBLY think Mewtwo is horrible?

 

[cman]

I think its Me.

I completely agree!

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I figured they'd save Panda for last since he's CLEARLY the best in the game. That katana literally hits from half of FD. Not to mention he gets to KEEP wavedashing and Lcancels. He's a ***** to unlock though.

 

[sagemoon]

Well the thing about Pit is last time I talked to Inui (a former professional Pit main), he said that Snake was Pit's worst matchup.

I personally think snake is a terrible matchup as well, and I'm a pro pit main. But thats exactly where the difference in opinion is. The other half of pit players argue that it's a good match up for pit.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Snake HAS been known to get wrecked by proper projectile spam. At least according to his summary. I don't have much experience with that actual match-up.

 

[scott_2222]

i think its olimar

 

[Yinlong]

yoooooooshi.

 

[Kirby Redux]

Olimar or Pit.

 

[kupo15]

Well the thing about Pit is last time I talked to Inui (a former professional Pit main), he said that Snake was Pit's worst matchup.

I played him and wouldnt call him a professional Pit main. He doesnt use the AT's or anything like a pro should either. Yea he said the same thing to me but I disagree. I have fun with snakes and they dont bother me. Now sagemoon, he is a pro Pit main.

Samuelson: Ok, I have heard of some of them but do the Extreme speed techs have mindgames? I wouldnt think it would be a good offense since you have land and cant do anything after them. They seem to be more of defense offense. It would be awesome if you guys could find a way to turn that into a QAC.

Unfortunately, Oli could be a contender. His projectiles are way good in a different way.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I guess Pit is very good at punishing openings thanks to having a good projectile. And I'm hearing different opinions on Pit's matchup vs Snake as we speak. =O

Honestly, I fail to see what Pit's mindgames are. I find him very bad at approaching and that his horizontal aerial mobility is BALLS, and this renders him as a fairly predictable, if a very difficult to approach character. Then again I have not visited the Pit boards in like....forever after I got Brawl since I discovered Pit's mechanics didn't suit be at all. So I dunno what his ATs are lol.

Otherwise d@mn, it really is looking like Pit.

 

[cj.Shark]

I guess Pit is very good at punishing openings thanks to having a good projectile. And I'm hearing different opinions on Pit's matchup vs Snake as we speak. =O

Honestly, I fail to see what Pit's mindgames are. I find him very bad at approaching and that his horizontal aerial mobility is BALLS, and this renders him as a fairly predictable, if a very difficult to approach character. Then again I have not visited the Pit boards in like....forever after I got Brawl since I discovered Pit's mechanics didn't suit be at all. So I dunno what his ATs are lol.

Otherwise d@mn, it really is looking like Pit.

arrow loop and wingdashing. Most people dont see the power arrow loop gives but it sets up for an undodgeable attack it also is hard to see coming and often can gimp peoples recories. people say its better to shoot more but actually most of the time when arrow looping it hits a place normal arrows cant go. its also unpredictable toward the opponent and downright scary when a arrow drops on ur head while doing a recovery.
wingdashing lets him well wavedash..kinda. its not as good but generally the same mindgames apply. also it is nice to use to prevent tripping ^^

Pika has mindgames too. QuAC thunder is just too good. every thunder is another mindgame. quac real ability though to appear almost anywhere . i think its more usefull than arrow looping because if you ever watch someof anther vids it just looks downright broken

 

[A2ZOMG]

Wow, high level Pit players must have gotten really technical.

I never realized that arrow looping had practical applications haha.

I just looked up Wingdashing. Quite a nice exploit lol.