I'm not talking damage, I'm talking as a kill move. Your best bet to kill in the air would be bair and dair, regardless of that lag.
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SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess
- Thread starter #HBC | Red Ryu
- Start date
Timbers
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Dair would also be a great move I'd imagine, but I tend to stale it all too much in this match. You need to keep Wario off of pursuit whenever you go above him. The uair hurts like a *****, but Luc's dair being greater range and 2x faster than the uair makes **** sure you're going to be safe should he attempt the uair. Obviously not unpunishable, as one read gets a bair to the face, but I still like the move and use it heavily in this match.
Bair is still not a move I want to use. Wario's airdodge is surprisingly long, which defeats the purpose of luc bair's lingering hitbox, and sets him up to use a uair or waft should he get in. It's not a chance I like to take.
I like AS and uair because of their dependable and safe nature. Wario lacks the range to punish aerial AS, as well as priority (save for bair) and uair has low lag, a surprisingly diverse hitbox, and keeps Wario away from you should you whiff. It's nice to keep in mind as it defeats Wario's dair rather well.
Lucario's uptilt is kinda annoying. We used to play a lot, though, Timbers, and not very much has changed, imo XD
Timbers
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come to genesis f*ggot
I don't think he can even afford it.
Check the top few posts, and bottom few on the page behind this for more information on this.
More to come once we get more Wario mains here. I can't do it alone, lol.
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
Most of Wario's kill moves are outranged by Lucario's attacks, I believe. So you can probably play defensive quite effectively if you're scared of getting KO'd.
Well, there are some downsides to that.
If a Wario reads your fsmash, he can get in your face, spotdodge, then fsmash. And dair isn't always a good idea. Wario can uair from the side, instead of attacking from below. Best part about Wario, that uair makes for a great taunt. It's like he's giving you a round of applause saying "GG'S GUYS".
hichez50
Smash Lord
From what Im reading. Looks like you can beat wario if you stay above him. The problem with that is he has super clap. So im thing use some aura sphere above him to get him down to the ground then f-air. Also the couple time I did fight wario if you DI back from a short hop F-ar they can punish you in many ways if you miss.
Timbers
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Wario is stupidly good at killing though. One perfect shield is all it takes for Wario to throw out an fsmash at you and it's insta-death at fresh around the 130 mark. Uair does a great job at baiting airdodges and can be set up well. Waft is 5 frames and 100% safe, hassles you on recovery, and punishes airdodges well. All 3 of these moves are great ledgehop punishers on an ES onto the stage as well.
No you don't want to stay above him, Luc just does well at keeping from getting juggled by Wario. You don't actually want to stay above him. The uair will land the more chances you give him to land it, and at fresh it'll kill 100-120%. Keep him horizontal from you so that you can abuse fair and aurasphere. Wario does exceptionally well at keeping Luc trapped in his shield as well, so know to roll out ASAP if you can't get a utilt off.
The award for most productive unproductive Lucario main goes to Timbers.
He can provide helpful input when he feels like it.
Enough has been said about Wario. In your opinion, what would the matchup be?
55:45 Wario for me.
He can provide helpful input when he feels like it.
Enough has been said about Wario. In your opinion, what would the matchup be?
55:45 Wario for me.
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
I think Lucario has the slight advantage.
Popertop
Smash Champion
^This.
They both can combo, but when it comes down to it, Wario's better offstage. Smashes won't play a big part in this, so there's no ground game. Wario has the slight advantage over Lucario because he will most likely kill first.
Timbers
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this matchup's only been up for like 12 hours lol, I certainly hope there's more to say.
Wario's ground game is subpar, especially against the likes of Lucario.
I haven't really played any Luc's of high caliber for a long time, which is why I've refrained from commenting overly extensively on this. I played some Lucario named Trela yesterday and won pretty soundly, waft and upair are too good.
I haven't really played any Luc's of high caliber for a long time, which is why I've refrained from commenting overly extensively on this. I played some Lucario named Trela yesterday and won pretty soundly, waft and upair are too good.
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
^^This. You Lucarios really need to get out more. Still, I do have some experience and IMO if the Wario plays this safe, there's not much lucario can do. Plus, he can gimp and kill, and wait for the waft if he needs to. As long as he's not being stupid and getting greedy, the only thing he really needs to watch out for is Lucario's fair. 60-40 Wario, but that's just my opinion.
Timbers
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Well with all due respect, the midwest brawl scene isn't exactly thriving. WC and EC have a pretty large number of Lucario players.
Honestly, I don't think there's much else to say, lol. I'm the only one here that uses both Lucario and Wario, so I know this matchup fairly well.
Not much else can be said, really.
I can probably follow-up on some things to keep it going. This time, from Wario's side.
Well, in that case, it would be a 55:45 Wario advantage, since Snap agrees.
I think this does need more work, notice how none of us can come to an agreement on an actual number?
This actually furthers my belief that it's actually an even matchup.
Oh, and you Lucarios better watch out. Some Warios have learned to camp.
Wario has the best projectiles ever.
Not much else can be said, really.
I can probably follow-up on some things to keep it going. This time, from Wario's side.
Well, in that case, it would be a 55:45 Wario advantage, since Snap agrees.
I think this does need more work, notice how none of us can come to an agreement on an actual number?
This actually furthers my belief that it's actually an even matchup.
Oh, and you Lucarios better watch out. Some Warios have learned to camp.
Wario has the best projectiles ever.
hichez50
Smash Lord
Straked why not just get some of your wario buddies to help up decide the match up. According to the wario boards the match up is 55-45(wario favor). Which seems about right. Plus its still considered neutral.
We have the advantage of not sucking on stages, which probably gives us that slight advantage. It really ends up coming down to who kills the other first half the time, lol.
Well, keep in mind. Most of my Wario buddies don't play Lucarios. So we'll be lucky toget 3 or 4 of us here that can provide any helpful information.
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
Wario is obnoxious.
Can't argue with that. Your point?
Sigrid Fiinikkusu
Smash Apprentice
Hmm, I know a decent Wario player and I think that the math-up is pretty even. Just remember not to roll too much or else you'll get a Fsmash in the face. -.-'
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
lol i can't argue with that. I did youtube wario vs lucario match-ups and found nothing though. Then again, that's probably more our fault since there have been 10 wario mains (literally) in the entire nation for the last 4 months.
That was a little concise, and it didn't really help at all. Anything else?
There's so little conversation from either side, unless it's Timbers or me.
I mean, I use more characters than you know.
This is -all- I know about the Wario matchup, and I can only say it based off of one time ever fighting against one.
Fighting Wario in a fast-paced match is usually what's going to happen. I would assume that spacing as well as possible would make for a very long match, because Wario is hard to hit. The waft kills really well, and that's a pain to watch out for (especially if you're not used to the match)
I would say that the matchup is in Wario's favor 55:45. It's hard to hit him, and it's hard for him to hit you (if you both know the matchup). I would just say it's in Wario's favor slightly because of the reasons stated above
I'm not much help.
Fighting Wario in a fast-paced match is usually what's going to happen. I would assume that spacing as well as possible would make for a very long match, because Wario is hard to hit. The waft kills really well, and that's a pain to watch out for (especially if you're not used to the match)
I would say that the matchup is in Wario's favor 55:45. It's hard to hit him, and it's hard for him to hit you (if you both know the matchup). I would just say it's in Wario's favor slightly because of the reasons stated above
I'm not much help.
manhunter098
Smash Lord
The key to fighting Wario is entirely prediction. Our aerials have better range than Wario's, however since he is so agile in the air he can feint approaches very well and bait effectively, the trick is to know what he is trying to get you to do, and doing something he doesnt expect, try predicting when he is going to jump forward and jump right before he does with a f-air, you might see some results.
To win this matchup you cant really rely on your traditional defensive strengths, you have to be more offensive in your mindgames trying to essentially trick Wario into approaching at the same time you are.
To win this matchup you cant really rely on your traditional defensive strengths, you have to be more offensive in your mindgames trying to essentially trick Wario into approaching at the same time you are.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Ok, so I've fought a pretty good wario (tho like most of OR hardly comes to tourneys, lol).
@ Manhunter: True, but his aerial mobility combined with faster aerials says that our range advantage is not so hot. He has quite some baiting options, and edgegame (fart is just amazing). Oh and on the subject of air release, wario is essentially one of the hardest characters to grab (especially if they have learned to camp). If you do happen to get one in, if you air release and are planning to fire an AS, do a SH prior, otherwise he gets to the ground and there goes your easy kill. imo, this in his slight advantage.
@ Manhunter: True, but his aerial mobility combined with faster aerials says that our range advantage is not so hot. He has quite some baiting options, and edgegame (fart is just amazing). Oh and on the subject of air release, wario is essentially one of the hardest characters to grab (especially if they have learned to camp). If you do happen to get one in, if you air release and are planning to fire an AS, do a SH prior, otherwise he gets to the ground and there goes your easy kill. imo, this in his slight advantage.
Samuelson
Smash Lord
The only thing Lucario has in this matchup is his Fair. This matchup is pretty tough for Lucario in my experience. Ive fought Fiction and other good Wario players and i think i know this matchup pretty well. I'm just gonna say that is is not easy at all for Lucario. It's probably a 60:40 matchup in Wario's favor.
Timbers
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Lucario can't air release...what is this...
yes hello sam.
Utilt and dair are both very good moves in this matchup as well, but I agree that fair takes priority in this match.
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
Nair has always been a helpful move for me in this matchup too. *Shrug*
Samuelson
Smash Lord
I find Dair very risky in this matchup personally. Your Dair beats his Uair but it has to be spaced extremely well. Ive died too many times because i got Uair'd while i was trying to Dair. If you miss Dair you can also get farted on. Nair is actually very good in this matchup. So is aura sphere. Not sure why Utilt would be good but whatever.