SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[takeurlife2]

so i came to this board wondering "hmm, what hard counters does lucario have?"

you guys need to do some work =\

*i think his worst matchup is DK, for future reference*

 

[Timbers]

SPOILER: he has none.


The two former runners of this thread had given up on it, with all due to respect to each of them. Different priorities overtook their time to run a thread like this. It'll get done, and yeah honestly we're not much worse off as most of the character boards. They may be complete or almost complete, but you can read some of their entrees to see how outdated or inaccurate they are due to the early metagame shifting.

*It seems that this matchup is coming to a close. If there is no further discussion by tomorrow, we will be moving onto King Dedede.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Are we allowed to go ahead and start talking about Dedede now? Everyone knows that Wario's are all meanies, and beating that dead horse seems a mute point now. It seems you just need to mark a number on the disadvantage. I'd say 60-40 (since Lucario isn't ***** by him, but it's a hell of a fight), but that's just me.

On a random note, that picture of Wario scares me. When exactly is the specifics for the match up information for Wario (as well as for Metaknight and Marth) going to go up? I know you busy, I'm just a little curious.

 

[hichez50]

60-40. Are you sure. Wario only benefits from stages with still platforms like battlefield. If you get battlefield or Yoshi island first you should be fine. Better yet you can ban one of the stages if your that scared.

Also D3 is going to be good against lucario. Lucario has to keep D3 in the air until its time to kill.

 

[:mad:]

60-40 seems like a little much. 55-45 is just perfect because it's close. And I mean very close.
But Wario has a few more advantages over Lucario, in terms of move speed, kill moves, and platform control. His recovery is better than Lucario's by far. They both can combo, but it's really gonna come down to Wario getting that first kill. Like I said. Utilt, Fsmash, and Dair are your most valuable assets in this matchup.

Dedede next? I'll hang around for this.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I also like the Aura Sphere, since he doesn't have too much of a way to stop a fully charged one, and if he tries to come at you through the air and you hit him with it, he seems to go farther than if you nail him while he's grounded. But yeah, this is still a Wario's win. 60-40 or 55-45 I guess. He's scarier than Metaknight, but not as scary as Marth, Wolf or Dedede. Oh God, I just fully realised Dedede is next. Can I go hide? He's uber scary for my Lucario. ;.;

 

[hichez50]

Wolf is not a theart. Atleast in my opinion correct me if im wrong. I think its should be 55-45. Wario has that stage advantage. But lucario has fsmash which saves the day once again.

D3 is nothing to be afraid of just requires more tactical thinking.

 

[Timbers]

Are we allowed to go ahead and start talking about Dedede now?

Actually no, I'd rather if everyone kept to the current discussion. My post is simply a heads up if there's no more wario discussion. I don't want other matchups to clutter the current discussion, and if it becomes a problem I won't be letting anyone know what matchup I plan to do next. Just stick to the discussion, waiting a day to give your opinion on a character won't kill you.

I think while this discussion does wrap up, you guys should try to come to a good decision on matchup numbers. I'm hearing 45:55 and 40:60. I'd rather get a number from the majority rather than going with my own feeling.

 

[:mad:]

Well, keep in mind. There are some biased people here that are still in favor of a Lucario advantage, which honestly, it really isn't. Keep that in mind, dude. It was pretty fun contributing to this discussion, I love the Lucario boards.

In my humble opinion, it's 55:45 Wario. I already listed the reasons.

 

[hichez50]

I agree with Straked. Being bias about the match-ups will not be benefical to luccario progressing

 

[Timbers]

Well, keep in mind. There are some biased people here that are still in favor of a Lucario advantage, which honestly, it really isn't. Keep that in mind, dude. It was pretty fun contributing to this discussion, I love the Lucario boards.

In my humble opinion, it's 55:45 Wario. I already listed the reasons.

The majority have said 45:55 or 40:60. I am interested in the majority.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Sorry about that. I didn't see the other post about waiting for a group consensus. My bad...

 

[:mad:]

God, just wait.
We still need to assess the matchup at hand, we can start on Dedede tomorrow.
It'll go faster if we just get this done.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

I don't think it's worse than 45:55, honestly. I can't put Wario in the same category as Marth for bad matchups in good conscience.

 

[:mad:]

Yeah. It's only a slight advantage in Wario's favor. Marth gives almost anyone trouble.
55:45 in Wario's favor. Or 50:50, but in no way is this a Lucario advantage.

 

[Popertop]

so i came to this board wondering "hmm, what hard counters does lucario have?"

you guys need to do some work =\

*i think his worst matchup is DK, for future reference*

lolol no

Marth/Meta are closest, with D3 being right behind.

55:45 for Wario sounds perfect.

And I would love to play you on Pictochat, plz take me there

I ban Luigi's anyway, and if I don't ... be afraid

 

[LordoftheMorning]

In my limited experience, I'd say it's pretty close to 50:50.

 

[:mad:]

In my limited experience, I'd say it's pretty close to 50:50.

Also take into account that platform control/more kill moves.
+ Better recovery.

 

[phi1ny3]

45:55 disadvantage is my verdict, just to add on. If we were to get stupidly technical, I'd say 43.5: 57.5, but at that point that is just appeasing with numbers and not trying per se to get to accurately point out the matchup.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I can't honestly say Wario is as bad as the MK's, Mr. G&Ws, or DeDeDe's I've fought.

Granted I need to fight better Wario's but going off of Phantom's posts and Lucario boards posts, I'm going with 45:55 Wario.

He may be a disadvantage, but no way he's as bad as the above three.

 

[Popertop]

just wait till you play a REALLY good Wario, then you will see

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Sorry about rushing the group consensus. My bad. I didn't see the other post. Don't get mad at me. ;.;

As far as I know, it seems that Wario is at his best when he is in the air, and that he can attack best from the air. His bite is also an interesting attack to use for moderate damage and to help stop our Extremespeed, should we aim for the stage instead of a wall or a ledge. His Spining move isn't much of a recovery, but with his bike, his recovery easily outstrips our own. And his Waft is capable of killing at mid percents, especially before it's fully used, while we try to last long enough for our Aura to activate.

This is another fight where Tilts are good. But that's assuming he fights a ground game, which he normally doesn't. Still, his aerial moves are capable of beating ours, and he can do lots of damage with them, and it's hard to stop him. Bating him into wifing an attack and then striking him for it seem to be helpful, especially a grab once he lands. Don't let your aerials get stale if you want to fight the aerial battle against him, since they are your best moves for trying to get rid of the fat Nazi. And if you do want to fight in the air, keep him infront or behind you. He'll juggle you like heck if you are above, and divebomb your furry butt if you're below him. Uptilt helps occasionally if he comes at you at angles, though. And I still love how AuraSphere can make or break battles.

And Stage wize, it seems that anything with platforms that lets the Nazi hit you from the air is evil. Long Stages or anything that prohibits aerial mobility is good for you. Final Destination and Smashville seem to be your friends, amoung stages. Battlefield will get you *****. Yoshi's Island seems like a good stage, although the long platform is capable of giving him an advantage too. And it seems that Luigi's Mansion is an evil stage for them, but they usually have it banned for that reason. Frigate Orpheon doesn't seem like it's a bad stage, despite it's couple of platforms, and anything that gives Lucario a way to wall jump back to the stage instead of ExtremeSpeeding into a Forward/UpSmash seems to be good.

In Air, Wario > Lucario.
On Ground, Wario = Lucario.
Specials, Wario = Lucario.
Damaging, Wario = Lucario.
Koing, Wario > Lucario.
Advantage:Wario. 55-45 Lucario.

Do I understand everything so far, or am I making a huge newb/scrub error?

 

[:mad:]

Sorry about rushing the group consensus. My bad. I didn't see the other post. Don't get mad at me. ;.;

As far as I know, it seems that Wario is at his best when he is in the air, and that he can attack best from the air. His bite is also an interesting attack to use for moderate damage and to help stop our Extremespeed, should we aim for the stage instead of a wall or a ledge. His Spining move isn't much of a recovery, but with his bike, his recovery easily outstrips our own. And his Waft is capable of killing at mid percents, especially before it's fully used, while we try to last long enough for our Aura to activate.

This is another fight where Tilts are good. But that's assuming he fights a ground game, which he normally doesn't. Still, his aerial moves are capable of beating ours, and he can do lots of damage with them, and it's hard to stop him. Bating him into wifing an attack and then striking him for it seem to be helpful, especially a grab once he lands. Don't let your aerials get stale if you want to fight the aerial battle against him, since they are your best moves for trying to get rid of the fat Nazi. And if you do want to fight in the air, keep him infront or behind you. He'll juggle you like heck if you are above, and divebomb your furry butt if you're below him. Uptilt helps occasionally if he comes at you at angles, though. And I still love how AuraSphere can make or break battles.

And Stage wize, it seems that anything with platforms that lets the Nazi hit you from the air is evil. Long Stages or anything that prohibits aerial mobility is good for you. Final Destination and Smashville seem to be your friends, amoung stages. Battlefield will get you *****. Yoshi's Island seems like a good stage, although the long platform is capable of giving him an advantage too. And it seems that Luigi's Mansion is an evil stage for them, but they usually have it banned for that reason. Frigate Orpheon doesn't seem like it's a bad stage, despite it's couple of platforms, and anything that gives Lucario a way to wall jump back to the stage instead of ExtremeSpeeding into a Forward/UpSmash seems to be good.

In Air, Wario > Lucario.
On Ground, Wario = Lucario.
Specials, Wario = Lucario.
Damaging, Wario = Lucario.
Koing, Wario > Lucario.
Advantage:Wario. 55-45 Lucario.

Do I understand everything so far, or am I making a huge newb/scrub error?

Scrub error: Assuming Wario's a nazi.
Also, you forgot to add.
Taunts: Wario > Lucario.

That summary's... decent. Yeah, good job.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

scrub Error: Assuming Wario's A Nazi.
Also, You Forgot To Add.
Taunts: Wario > Lucario.

That Summary's... Decent. Yeah, Good Job.

DUDE, OF COURSE HE'S A NAZI! LOOK AT HIS STACHE! HE'S TOTALLY GERMAN! AND WHO ELSE HAS THAT KIND OF "Enginnering in the House, 'Ja"? HIS BIKE JUST SCREAMS BLITZKRIEG! SAVE ANNE FRANK!

But I am glad that I atleast understand the topics a little bit, and that I'm not just spamming random information. I hope I'm being somewhat of a help some how, and if I'm not, please have me banned.

On a random note, I still feel wierd that I'd rather fight Metaknight than Wario.... granted, I'm sure I'm with everyone that would rather fight Wario than Marth or Dedede (who I have LOTS to say about).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

just wait till you play a REALLY good Wario, then you will see

Just wait until you fight Azen, then you will see.

 

[phi1ny3]

He might be a Nazi, but he's still Italian (prolly mafia italian). Why?
-If you've ever heard him speak in his games, he speaks with an italian accent.
-The bike's a Harley prolly, definitely italian american stuff right there.
-He loves garlic, and the only people who prolly use garlic more than italians are the french.
Weird/lolwut topic is weird/lolwut topic.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Just wait until you fight Azen, then you will see.

Dude, that's not fair. You can't throw Azen on someone. That's like in Rock-Paper-Scizzors, they use Paper and you use Flame-Thrower or Tidal-Wave. It's just not fair. I need to get past all of the things mentally holding me back in battle, once I get past my limitations physically. I want to one day be as good as Azen is. I wish to be able to face him and Mew2king on the field of battle, and be able to say that I brought the match down to the wire, or left them on their 2nd or 3rd Stock when they finished massacuring me.

And Phiny, his bike is totally Enginnered by the Germans. And I didn't know he had an Italian accent. I thought that was Mario's thing. Wario's accent just sound... Wario... Although a Nazi friend of mine (who admits to being the Anti-Christ) laughs just like him... and yes, he does admit to being a Nazi, being related to Hitler as a Nephew, and that all Jews (me included. ;.; ) deserve to die. .... Wario's a German Italian... OMG THE WORLD'S BEST GANGSTA! RUN AWAY!

But everyone agrees Wario is a demon in the air, platformed stages are bad, and Wario does have a slight advantage?

 

[:mad:]

Because I feel like this topic has more spam than people contributing, I think I'll do a small writeup.

Wario vs. Lucario


Because we're not making a lot of progress.

Now, first of all, this is a 45:55 matchup. Wario's favor.
Lucario suffers a slight disadvantage because of Wario's strange moveset. To start out, this matchup is entriely stage dependant. Wario controls platforms, and due to Lucario not having an answer for this, it's bad for us. We don't have a counter to Wario's platform domination. This match could be entirely dependant on who gets first kill.

The best stages in this situation would have to be Final Destination, Luigi's Mansion, and Pictochat. These stages have limited platforms. Luigi's Mansion might give you trouble due to the large blastzones, but you can work your way around this, since you'll survive until high percentages.

Your biggest asset here is uptilt, fsmash, nair, Aura Sphere, and dair. Wario can combo Lucario into some pretty crazy damage. You need to watch out for his nair, dair, uair, and fsmash. Waft can kill at ridiculously low percentages. In this matchup, it's best to never try to gimp with fair or nair. Focus mainly abusing your ground game, and punishing his mistakes. If you dodge an attack, don't grab, but rather Force Palm.

Aura Sphere in this matchup is essential, a fully charged one can wreck Wario. Always SH an Aura Sphere, or full hop, since he'll approach with an aerial. If he's at higher percentages, feel free to go offstage and dair him.

Advantages;
Better ground game.
Better tilts.
Better projectile.

Disadvantages;
Lucario's mediocre recovery. (In comparison to Wario's, it's still decent.)
Aerial problems.
Lack of kill moves.
Our bad platform control.


Play smart, and try not to airdodge.
​

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Because I feel like this topic has more spam than people contributing, I think I'll do a small writeup.

Wario vs. Lucario


Because we're not making a lot of progress.

Now, first of all, this is a 45:55 matchup. Wario's favor.
Lucario suffers a slight disadvantage because of Wario's strange moveset. To start out, this matchup is entriely stage dependant. Wario controls platforms, and due to Lucario not having an answer for this, it's bad for us. We don't have a counter to Wario's platform domination. This match could be entirely dependant on who gets first kill.

The best stages in this situation would have to be Final Destination, Luigi's Mansion, and Pictochat. These stages have limited platforms. Luigi's Mansion might give you trouble due to the large blastzones, but you can work your way around this, since you'll survive until high percentages.

Your biggest asset here is uptilt, fsmash, nair, Aura Sphere, and dair. Wario can combo Lucario into some pretty crazy damage. You need to watch out for his nair, dair, uair, and fsmash. Waft can kill at ridiculously low percentages. In this matchup, it's best to never try to gimp with fair or nair. Focus mainly abusing your ground game, and punishing his mistakes. If you dodge an attack, don't grab, but rather Force Palm.

Aura Sphere in this matchup is essential, a fully charged one can wreck Wario. Always SH an Aura Sphere, or full hop, since he'll approach with an aerial. If he's at higher percentages, feel free to go offstage and dair him.

Advantages;
Better ground game.
Better tilts.
Better projectile.

Disadvantages;
Lucario's mediocre recovery. (In comparison to Wario's, it's still decent.)
Aerial problems.
Lack of kill moves.
Our bad platform control.


Play smart, and try not to airdodge.
​

Very nice coloring. Yours mentions more specific techniques than mine does, so I think we should go with yours.

 

[:mad:]

Thanks. I tried to make it colorful so it would catch any lurker's eye. Since Timbers doesn't post these in the OP, he just posts what pages we discuss.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Weird that you've joined the Lucario community despite having that little fat red guy as part of your name... And no, it's not Santa.

But thank you for all of your input. Are you going to help with the Dedede match up? And maybe you can prepare these little colored thingys for Metaknight and Marth as well? It would help those same lurkers.

 

[PhantomX]

Just wait until you fight Azen, then you will see.

Just thought I'd retort with "DMG's Wario beat Azen's Lucario in tournament when they played."

 

[:mad:]

Actually, I use everyone, and try my best to post in all the character boards. Mainly Mario, Ness, Lucas, Lucario, Wario, DK, Luigi, Falco, Diddy Kong, Lucario, Fox, and Kirby boards. I use more than half the cast in tournaments, I guess you could say I main random, lol. But I have the most knowledge of Mario.

Yeah, I'll help with the Dedede matchup. Lucario's one of my favorites, so I like sticking around here. Yeah, I'm actually pretty good at making these writeups. Everyone on the Lucario boards is cool. Especially Timbers because his avatar is all "-coolshades-".

And you're welcome, I think what helped most is the fact that I know almost everything about both characters. Dedede should be a fun discussion.

And on another note, you Lucario mains that only have Azen in your defence need to do more than just talk about him. There's plenty more Lucario mains out there that could use the hype. Wario's just that good.

 

[phi1ny3]

^Like Lee, he is arguably as good as Azen.
Then there's Bloodhawk, who is on par with Anther (uber pika).

Just wait until you fight Azen, then you will see.

Azen mains azen, not lucario. If you notice how he plays, he has a distinct style in most of his characters that doesn't quite follow the peak of that character's "metagame".

 

[:mad:]

We also have our very own Trela and Milln that represent the SWF Lucarios.
And of course you, the go to guy for any Lucario information.

... and then there's me, that one guy that has way more posts than he should.
Nobody should have almost 2000 in only 3 months.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Funny, I thought this was the Lucario matchup discussion. Not the Azen matchup discussion.

Saying things like "Go play a good Wario" is equally useless, for the record.

Maybe we could get back to talking about character matchups. I think that's what this thread is supposed to be about.

 

[:mad:]

Because I feel like this topic has more spam than people contributing, I think I'll do a small writeup.

Wario vs. Lucario


Because we're not making a lot of progress.

Now, first of all, this is a 45:55 matchup. Wario's favor.
Lucario suffers a slight disadvantage because of Wario's strange moveset. To start out, this matchup is entriely stage dependant. Wario controls platforms, and due to Lucario not having an answer for this, it's bad for us. We don't have a counter to Wario's platform domination. This match could be entirely dependant on who gets first kill.

The best stages in this situation would have to be Final Destination, Luigi's Mansion, and Pictochat. These stages have limited platforms. Luigi's Mansion might give you trouble due to the large blastzones, but you can work your way around this, since you'll survive until high percentages.

Your biggest asset here is uptilt, fsmash, nair, Aura Sphere, and dair. Wario can combo Lucario into some pretty crazy damage. You need to watch out for his nair, dair, uair, and fsmash. Waft can kill at ridiculously low percentages. In this matchup, it's best to never try to gimp with fair or nair. Focus mainly abusing your ground game, and punishing his mistakes. If you dodge an attack, don't grab, but rather Force Palm.

Aura Sphere in this matchup is essential, a fully charged one can wreck Wario. Always SH an Aura Sphere, or full hop, since he'll approach with an aerial. If he's at higher percentages, feel free to go offstage and dair him.

Advantages;
Better ground game.
Better tilts.
Better projectile.

Disadvantages;
Lucario's mediocre recovery. (In comparison to Wario's, it's still decent.)
Aerial problems.
Lack of kill moves.
Our bad platform control.


Play smart, and try not to airdodge.
​

To quote myself, so this can be on every page.
I agree, some Lucarios came in here and really weren't any help. Mindless spam is fine as long as you contribute in the same post.

 

[Timbers]

Straked, nice summary, I'll add it when I collaborate the matchup thread.

I still don't like fsmash in this matchup though. Wario's airborne 90% of the time and gets in very close to punish any anticipated fsmashes. I feel like this match you need to be fast to be able to constantly move and protect yourself.

And to echo what Stauffy said, swooning over how good a player is, is not what this thread is for. Unless said player is being used as an example to back up your claim or opinion, there's really no use talking about him.

This thread kind of flew with like 3 new pages since I've been gone, so I'm going to stick to Wario a bit longer, incase something new comes up that someone wants to talk about. Da-D-Mon and Straked both posted pretty large summaries, so I'll wait long enough to see if there's some sort of rebuttal to either.

 

[:mad:]

You're absolutely right there. But a good Wario can always try to screw you up with their own Fsmash/DACUS. They'll probably run right into it. And if the Wario SH's, he could always fall right into that fsmash.

We really do need to keep this up awhile longer. Not many people are contributing, they just post 1-liner opinions. I'd like some more thoughts on this matchup. And I'll try to quote my post in every page after this until we start Dedede, since not many people pay attention to every post.

 

[Timbers]

I don't expect a lot of content or contributors, especially to a thread that's been remade for the third time. If you haven't noticed the boards in general, they're not necessarily spilling with info and progression, so I don't expect people to come talk about matchups AGAIN lol.

Fsmash will be used in the matchup, I just don't think it takes the same sort of priority as dair, AS, fair, utilt.