Simple Questions & Answers Thread (READ FAQ in OP)

[-LzR-]

50 euros for winner, 25 for 2nd place, 10 for 3rd.
15 euros is too much for a tournament since people barely have the money to travel down here.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

I have something to say about not-fully-but-almost-fully-charged Africa Pawnches...
Good God.

I've killed people below 50 with this on neutral stages, and I have the replays to prove it.

Is that normal?

 

[Chaosgriffin]

I have something to say about not-fully-but-almost-fully-charged Africa Pawnches...
Good God.

I've killed people below 50 with this on neutral stages, and I have the replays to prove it.

Is that normal?

yeah, 9 wind punches are stronger than the fully charged one, so is 7 and 8 winds, they give more knock back, but no SA frames.

 

[DtJ S2n]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176033

Here's the thread about it. In addition to no SA frames, they take longer too. I guess it's personal preference which one you'll want to keep stocked the most. I personally almost exclusively use 10 wind.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

for me what i do, is i keep a 9 wind stored in case, however once i get to a really high %, or once my opponent gets to the point where a 10 wind will kill them i just go ahead and add the last wind up

 

[DtJ S2n]

CG's strategy is perfect if you're opportunistic about Giant Punch, just looking for kills with it when the opponent makes a mistake. Might take a little bit of micromanagement, but it's efficient. I like to use Giant Punch for damage racking more than kills, since it's so easy to land on low % opponents, is stupidly safe, and does big damage. Gets into their head too. DK has kill moves to spare, anyways.

Also I was reading on that that the 9 wind's shoulder punch does 31/32% and kills at some ungodly % vertically. I kinda wanna play around with that.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

Man, the shoulder of the Africa Punch is just unreal for kills.
I mean, I've killed light characters at like 40 with the shoulder.

 

[crifer]

funny thing is.... 9 wind is so slow that it even punishes spotdodges :D

 

[Chaosgriffin]

thx Sold2, and crifer yeah thats true cause it adds in the windup animation, and then the punch. The elbow however, is very godlike, but extremely hard to hit when you are trying to, especially the 9 wind sine you have to be on top of them, and since if comes out slow they can block on reaction, also no SA frames to "get hit, dont care" and just absorb that attack.

 

[¿Qué?]

Man, the shoulder of the Africa Punch is just unreal for kills.
I mean, I've killed light characters at like 40 with the shoulder.

Chaos taught me that at wind either 6&7 or 7&8, there is a massive sweet spot on the shoulder that can kill rediculously early.

Rediculously...

 

[DtJ S2n]

Actually that's kind of why it interests me. One time I was watching Crash play friendlies with somebody, on Japes vs Lucario. He hit him with the shoulder, of what we thought was a 3 wind, and it killed Lucario at 22%, straight vertically. Even if Lucario had DI'd well, I don't think he would have lived. And this was on Japes. I've kinda just forgotten about it until recently, assumed it was a glitch or something... Someone should test what shoulder punches do for every wind.

 

[¿Qué?]

Actually that's kind of why it interests me. One time I was watching Crash play friendlies with somebody, on Japes vs Lucario. He hit him with the shoulder, of what we thought was a 3 wind, and it killed Lucario at 22%, straight vertically. Even if Lucario had DI'd well, I don't think he would have lived. And this was on Japes. I've kinda just forgotten about it until recently, assumed it was a glitch or something... Someone should test what shoulder punches do for every wind.

Yeah, exactly. They shoot up vertically. No chance of DI, because there is a massive amount of knock back.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

The sweet spot is not the shoulder, its the elbow on the backswing.

 

[¿Qué?]

The sweet spot is not the shoulder, its the elbow on the backswing.

LOL THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.

Shoulder/ Elbow same difference.

 

[Ripple]

I've hit with the ELBOW before and it never killed ridiculously early before. hell, I've never killed anyone at all with it and sometimes I purposefully try and hit with the backside incase they roll behind me.

 

[Cable]

I've also hit with the elbow and killed with it before but I ddnt attempt to do it on purpose tho DK is broken sometimes and it makes me smile

 

[¿Qué?]

Yeah dude.

When a Meta doesn't know the DK MU, they **** bricks...

It's serisouly amazing with what you can do if they don't know it.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

But when said MK players DO know the match-up, what do you do?
I've had some trouble with MKs on wifi that just spam tornado until I get into kill
range, what do I do about that?

Haven't played the match-up at all offline against that type of player.

 

[¿Qué?]

You can break Nado with Upward tilted Ftilt, or Bair hitting from the very top of it. The Bair is harder to do, but quicker. The Ftilt is easier, but slower.

Space like a mo fo and bait out the Nado.. You need to keep away from him all the time.

I know the MU is 60/40, but still. You have a lot of power. Baiting screw ups with your mix ups gets you those rediculously early kills.

 

[-LzR-]

At first, I was getting wrecked by DK, then I learned the MU and it's really easy. And ftilt doesn't beat nado if the MK expects it. It's really dumb MU. Anything DK does can be just tornadoed and then combo like no tomorrow.

 

[crifer]

At first, I was getting wrecked by DK, then I learned the MU and it's really easy. And ftilt doesn't beat nado if the MK expects it. It's really dumb MU. Anything DK does can be just tornadoed and then combo like no tomorrow.

True. Honestly: I think if the mk knows the MU he´s gonna wreck DK. If he tornados from a 45° angle, the only thing that helps is reverse utilt. MK can dash shield our ftilt/bair/everything and punish with dash grab easily. Once offstage, DK should never come back... I think it´s worse than 60:40...

 

[-LzR-]

The only thing in this MU for DK is punch. When he has it charged, they will be a lot more careful with nado.
Doesn't save DK thought.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Yeah I could see the MK match-up being 65:35. The only thing that makes the match-up tolerable is how predictable most MKs are. Their patterns are easy to see and you get free big hits (giant punch) off it, and then that scares them into thinking they have to actually fight you.

Recovering is a pain, but it's not auto-stock. It's only a problem if they knock you out of your second jump. At that point all you can really do is try and mix-up high and low recoveries. Use/save your second jump so that you can get around it.

If he tornados at a 45 degree angle, what you really need to do is get out of there. Our shield is no good, but we have the speed to do something like run off the edge, jump over it, or like, run away and then start shielding so he can't stay on it as long or make it as safe. If you run off the edge, a lot of MKs will try and chase you with tornado as far as the edge and you can double jump back up and b-air them easy. Really, if you're on your feet and thinking about it, a tornado shouldn't hit you. Just don't try and challenge it unless you see he messed up.

But yeah, most of the match-up is us hoping that he makes a mistake, it sucks. Fortunately, there's a lot of mistakes they can make like glide attacking ever, charging smashes, bad spacing, etc.

 

[Luigi player]

tornado is broken against dk online xD

I definitely can't see the MK MU as any worse than 40:60 (and more like 45:55, but probably nobody agrees...).

 

[Jebu-95]

Time to re-discuss MU's, anyone?

I definitely can't see the MK MU as any worse than 40:60

I'm sure that you'd agree on that when you've play against someone who actually knows the MU.
The good thing about playing DK is that not many actually know what to do against him. In other words, not many know the MU, and I think thats one of his biggest strengths.

At one point I used to wreck this local MK, and be both thought about the MU being something in the category like 45:55 for MK.... That is, until he figured out the key of this MU.
Nowdays I only seem to win against his MK if he fails at nadoing or if I get a good read.
Avoiding/Running away might save you from a nado but he still got the clock left to spam it. Like said, punch is good to have but it doesnt save DK.
This and a few other MUs kinda make me want to drop DK to a secondary and main Wario/Pikachu.

Ratio: 65-35 (or even worse?) for MK. This MU sucks.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

It's not as bad a match-up as DK vs D3, and it's been shown that that particular
MU isn't impossible at high-level play.

 

[crifer]

tornado is broken against dk online xD

I definitely can't see the MK MU as any worse than 40:60 (and more like 45:55, but probably nobody agrees...).

OK, coming weekend... show me against staco that you win 4 out of 10 times with DK and I´ll agree.

edit: 4 instead of 6, sorry.

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

I think he means in favor of MK so it would be win 4 matches. Also.... 30:70? Maybe not quite that bad.

 

[-LzR-]

When both players know the matchup and equally good, it's unrealistic for DK to win.
The MU is not Dededehard, but it relies on punishing MK's mistakes. What makes this hard is that MK has a lot of room for error in this MU. Whenever DK jumps or does pretty much anything I can just spam B as it's too fast and it wins all DK's options.
His punch is what makes things tolerable. There will be a lot less nado because of the fear of getting killed.

Mk must then bait the punch, which isn't hard with MK and all of his options.
And properly spaced MK's fair *****. DK's priority is crap.

 

[Neon!]

When both players know the matchup and equally good, it's unrealistic for DK to win.
The MU is not Dededehard, but it relies on punishing MK's mistakes. What makes this hard is that MK has a lot of room for error in this MU. Whenever DK jumps or does pretty much anything I can just spam B as it's too fast and it wins all DK's options.
His punch is what makes things tolerable. There will be a lot less nado because of the fear of getting killed.

Mk must then bait the punch, which isn't hard with MK and all of his options.
And properly spaced MK's fair *****. DK's priority is crap.

This is so true, I played quite a few mk's at dallas and had a hard time against the average ones, after trying to apporach me they realized tornado is much better than any other otion he has. The only well know mk i played was havok who 2 stocked me, he even warned me b4 the match that all he would do is tornado. There's really not much he can do about it.

 

[-LzR-]

DK can sometimes avoid the nado, but he can't shield it even with a full shield and he can't punish it unless MK makes a big mistake.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

So, what am I supposed to do against MKs that spam neutral B?
Play gay back? A.K.A. wait for him to approach dumb and punish it?

 

[DtJ S2n]

If the MK goes too deep on your shield, you most certainly can shield it. In fact, I've been shield broken by it before...

As I said before, trying to actually fight MK is dumb. In fact, the characters that do best vs MK are the ones that can just avoid fighting him. Like Snake just leaving nades around, Falco running away and lasering, and Wario dodging around. DK should just avoid being too close to MK when possible and try to force mistakes, read their patterns. You have to beat the player, not the character.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

If the MK goes too deep on your shield, you most certainly can shield it. In fact, I've been shield broken by it before...

As I said before, trying to actually fight MK is dumb. In fact, the characters that do best vs MK are the ones that can just avoid fighting him. Like Snake just leaving nades around, Falco running away and lasering, and Wario dodging around. DK should just avoid being too close to MK when possible and try to force mistakes, read their patterns. You have to beat the player, not the character.

This is advice that applies to every match-up.
Good stuff.
Thanks for the advice, too.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

Doesn't F-tilt go through Nado?

 

[Ripple]

Doesn't F-tilt go through Nado?

only 2x. and up-tilt once before you need to get it back to complete freshness

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Dash attack beats nado though, but it takes a while to come out so good luck using it like that.

 

[Cable]

Dash attack beats nado though, but it takes a while to come out so good luck using it like that.

It does?! i ddnt kno that I have to try for myself

 

[¿Qué?]

Ground Pound Beats Nado.

:3

 

[Ripple]

Ground Pound Beats Nado.

:3

have fun trying to do that. frame 19 ground pound and their tornado has to be grounded.