KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'm tired of seeing these threads across the various character specific forums or in MD asking for "How do I beat my stupid friend(s)? He (or they) don't even use advanced techniques so obviously I'm way better than them because I do (FALSE!!!!) but I still lose or go even or have really close games with them despite my awesome technical skill that's at least on par with that of 2007 Mew2King or current Mango. What do I do about Luigi's forward smash and forward tilt?"
Okay before I give all of you stupid cheat strategies on how to beat your scrubtastic friends, a few things:
1) Thinking of the "advanced techniques" as a marker of superiority is f***ing dumb. The advanced techniques are just tools, nothing more. They give you more ways to do moves and attacks that currently exist in your moveset (instead of walk > f-tilt, you gain access to WD > f-tilt, dash cancel > f-tilt, etc).
2) While they are undeniably essential tools to winning at high level, it is very possible to forgo using them against players that use them if they're constantly misused. I compare this to a gunfight. Suppose you show up with a very good handgun and they bring a knife. Obviously you should have this in the bag, right? Not if you try to hit them with the gun, rather than shoot them. This is somewhat exaggerated, but most of the time when people encounter trouble using advanced techniques, it's because they don't know why their character is good, why the technique might emphasize why the character is good, or why a certain character weakness can be mitigated by the technique. Stuff like that. They don't have a good plan.
3) Be good at your basics. Learn to walk before you run. Or, rather, learn how to up throw up air before you can multishine. It's just more useful.
4) If you are constantly losing to them because of their **** forward smash shenanigans with Doctor-f***ing-Mario, you are terrible. Like, completely terrible. It is entirely possible you are better than them (suppose you beat people they don't, and overall you beat more people; it happens) but you are still undeniably terrible. Don't even argue with me on this one. If you cannot beat people "abusing" stupidly simple (BAD!!!) strategies like Doctor Mario forward smash, then you're horrible.
NOOBSLAYERS: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
Just about every noobslayer is a strategy that preys on the opponent going to do something and then you punish it. Alternatively, you just straight up beat their move with range or speed. It works best with characters like Fox, Sheik, Marth, Ganon, etc. because you can either prod them with projectiles if they get pissy and try to camp you out with stuff (Fox and Sheik), or just range-f*** them (Marth and Ganon).
FOX
Dash dance > up throw > up air
Dash dance > dash attack (45%+)
Run > Shield > WD OOS > up throw > up air
Run > shield > shield grab > up throw > up air
If the opponent starts trying to wait longer, shoot them with SHLs for a bit until he starts making offensive positions again. Against crouch canceling opponents, don't dash attack. Combo off dash attack with up tilt most of the time.
SHEIK
Forward tilt > more forward tilt > forward air
D-throw > more down throw
D-throw > forward tilt > forward air
Shield grabbing as a whole
CC down smash as a whole
Shoot them with needles if they start trying to wait longer than you, or walk forward until you're just outside their longest moves' range (Ganon, Marth, etc) or they're roughly in range to be dash attacked and then dash attack them.
If they're a fast faller (Fox, Falco, Falcon) and they don't tech, you can just jab them and then up smash. Or just forward tilt after the throw. Or down smash. Tons of stuff. Honestly as long as you're down throwing them, you can probably just do whatever and it'll work.
MARTH
Forward smash (beats everything so why not?)
Down tilt > more down tilt or grab
Up throw > up tilt > more up tilt > up airs or forward airs if you want to do them
Up tilt as a move
Fair spam
Marth absolutely crushes noobs because just about everything he does requires some sort of advanced tech to beat. Beating Marth without dash dance is stupidly difficult. Beating him without WD OOS is also stupid because without WD OOS you can't punish a shielded forward smash if he's half-***** the spacing (unless they're Marth or Sheik).
PEACH
Turnips
Shield > Nair OOS
Shield > shield grab
CC D-smash
Floating around doing attacks in general
Dash attack in general
Down smash in general
It works basically the same way that Sheik does. Only no forward tilt. Down smash absolutely ***** noobs. Her c-stick stuff in general ***** noobs. Nice thing about Peach is if the opponent actually uses shield, you don't really need to grab to work around it because of the down smash's shield pierce rate. Down smash edgeguard is broken against awful people.
FALCO
SHL in general
Lasers in general
Combos in general (especially ones with up tilt)
Dair edgeguard
Dair spam
Just play normal Falco and you'll probably **** noobs. He's like Marth in that his base gameplay requires some technical execution to work around. If they can't WD OOS or waveland, how can they beat lasers? That's actually a rhetorical question, but the answer is: "They can't". Similarly, if they can't sweetspot recoveries or tech, how can they beat his Dair? Again, rhetorical. Do 6+ hit Dair combos that eventually end in a forward smash or down smash and you'll beat every noob without breaking a sweat. Some technical skill is required to do this, but less than you think; proficiency with lasers and SHFFLs will suffice. You can also get away with a lot of F-smashes and CC D-tilt > aerial if you want.
SAMUS
Missile spam
CC down smash
Down smash in general
Tilt spam in general
See Peach and Sheik. Only missiles have the benefit of killing. It's also really easy to make noobs run into the down smash because all you really need to do is charge your beam and they'll get scared and attack you because they think it's a good move (or just keep shooting missiles). If they try to do reflector stuff with Fox or Falco, then just hit them (grab combos are good here). Because down smash sends people behind you, it is recommended to camp the edge and mindlessly down smash them as they try to attack you and then edgeguard appropriately (probably something charge beam or missile related). Be prepared to combo in the event they have decent DI; it is unlikely but just be ready to Bair through whatever they fall with. Or block punish it.
JIGGLYPUFF
Bair in general (especially SH AC Bair)
Rest combos in general
Rest OOS
Crouch Rest
Down throw combos
U-throw Rest (on space animals) and u-throw combos in general
It's basically like Marth, only you can also Rest OOS on smash attacks and other laggy things for the easiest OHKOs of your life. Crouch Rest is great against rapid kicks and jabs. Everything else involves either poking them offstage until they die, or setting up an efficient OHKO when they miss a laggy ground move.
ICE CLIMEBRS
WD OOS grab
WD back > dash attack > a million up airs
Shield grab
Nana Blizzard > Popo Grab (or up smash if they jump)
Just get a grab combo going and go berserk. Or launch them above you and go berserk. Blizzard seems impenetrable to bad players and will prompt predictable bad projectile habits, blocking, or jumping. Uairs **** because they're disjointed. Just cheese them with juggles or throws and you're gold.
GANONDORF
Flail arms wildly
Flail legs wildly
Make sure you execute Fair a lot
Down throw combos
Ganon ***** noobs. Hit your l-cancels and make sure your throw combos and combos in general are HILARIOUS.
I'm not going through the entire cast by myself because I don't play every character. But add your own! Debate the viability of strategies against people that don't WD OOS, dash dance, WD back, or space effectively in general!
I will update this randomly and when I feel like it. I have a 4 hour break between classes on Tuesdays, so probably then. Enjoy!
Okay before I give all of you stupid cheat strategies on how to beat your scrubtastic friends, a few things:
1) Thinking of the "advanced techniques" as a marker of superiority is f***ing dumb. The advanced techniques are just tools, nothing more. They give you more ways to do moves and attacks that currently exist in your moveset (instead of walk > f-tilt, you gain access to WD > f-tilt, dash cancel > f-tilt, etc).
2) While they are undeniably essential tools to winning at high level, it is very possible to forgo using them against players that use them if they're constantly misused. I compare this to a gunfight. Suppose you show up with a very good handgun and they bring a knife. Obviously you should have this in the bag, right? Not if you try to hit them with the gun, rather than shoot them. This is somewhat exaggerated, but most of the time when people encounter trouble using advanced techniques, it's because they don't know why their character is good, why the technique might emphasize why the character is good, or why a certain character weakness can be mitigated by the technique. Stuff like that. They don't have a good plan.
3) Be good at your basics. Learn to walk before you run. Or, rather, learn how to up throw up air before you can multishine. It's just more useful.
4) If you are constantly losing to them because of their **** forward smash shenanigans with Doctor-f***ing-Mario, you are terrible. Like, completely terrible. It is entirely possible you are better than them (suppose you beat people they don't, and overall you beat more people; it happens) but you are still undeniably terrible. Don't even argue with me on this one. If you cannot beat people "abusing" stupidly simple (BAD!!!) strategies like Doctor Mario forward smash, then you're horrible.
NOOBSLAYERS: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
Just about every noobslayer is a strategy that preys on the opponent going to do something and then you punish it. Alternatively, you just straight up beat their move with range or speed. It works best with characters like Fox, Sheik, Marth, Ganon, etc. because you can either prod them with projectiles if they get pissy and try to camp you out with stuff (Fox and Sheik), or just range-f*** them (Marth and Ganon).
FOX
Dash dance > up throw > up air
Dash dance > dash attack (45%+)
Run > Shield > WD OOS > up throw > up air
Run > shield > shield grab > up throw > up air
If the opponent starts trying to wait longer, shoot them with SHLs for a bit until he starts making offensive positions again. Against crouch canceling opponents, don't dash attack. Combo off dash attack with up tilt most of the time.
SHEIK
Forward tilt > more forward tilt > forward air
D-throw > more down throw
D-throw > forward tilt > forward air
Shield grabbing as a whole
CC down smash as a whole
Shoot them with needles if they start trying to wait longer than you, or walk forward until you're just outside their longest moves' range (Ganon, Marth, etc) or they're roughly in range to be dash attacked and then dash attack them.
If they're a fast faller (Fox, Falco, Falcon) and they don't tech, you can just jab them and then up smash. Or just forward tilt after the throw. Or down smash. Tons of stuff. Honestly as long as you're down throwing them, you can probably just do whatever and it'll work.
MARTH
Forward smash (beats everything so why not?)
Down tilt > more down tilt or grab
Up throw > up tilt > more up tilt > up airs or forward airs if you want to do them
Up tilt as a move
Fair spam
Marth absolutely crushes noobs because just about everything he does requires some sort of advanced tech to beat. Beating Marth without dash dance is stupidly difficult. Beating him without WD OOS is also stupid because without WD OOS you can't punish a shielded forward smash if he's half-***** the spacing (unless they're Marth or Sheik).
PEACH
Turnips
Shield > Nair OOS
Shield > shield grab
CC D-smash
Floating around doing attacks in general
Dash attack in general
Down smash in general
It works basically the same way that Sheik does. Only no forward tilt. Down smash absolutely ***** noobs. Her c-stick stuff in general ***** noobs. Nice thing about Peach is if the opponent actually uses shield, you don't really need to grab to work around it because of the down smash's shield pierce rate. Down smash edgeguard is broken against awful people.
FALCO
SHL in general
Lasers in general
Combos in general (especially ones with up tilt)
Dair edgeguard
Dair spam
Just play normal Falco and you'll probably **** noobs. He's like Marth in that his base gameplay requires some technical execution to work around. If they can't WD OOS or waveland, how can they beat lasers? That's actually a rhetorical question, but the answer is: "They can't". Similarly, if they can't sweetspot recoveries or tech, how can they beat his Dair? Again, rhetorical. Do 6+ hit Dair combos that eventually end in a forward smash or down smash and you'll beat every noob without breaking a sweat. Some technical skill is required to do this, but less than you think; proficiency with lasers and SHFFLs will suffice. You can also get away with a lot of F-smashes and CC D-tilt > aerial if you want.
SAMUS
Missile spam
CC down smash
Down smash in general
Tilt spam in general
See Peach and Sheik. Only missiles have the benefit of killing. It's also really easy to make noobs run into the down smash because all you really need to do is charge your beam and they'll get scared and attack you because they think it's a good move (or just keep shooting missiles). If they try to do reflector stuff with Fox or Falco, then just hit them (grab combos are good here). Because down smash sends people behind you, it is recommended to camp the edge and mindlessly down smash them as they try to attack you and then edgeguard appropriately (probably something charge beam or missile related). Be prepared to combo in the event they have decent DI; it is unlikely but just be ready to Bair through whatever they fall with. Or block punish it.
JIGGLYPUFF
Bair in general (especially SH AC Bair)
Rest combos in general
Rest OOS
Crouch Rest
Down throw combos
U-throw Rest (on space animals) and u-throw combos in general
It's basically like Marth, only you can also Rest OOS on smash attacks and other laggy things for the easiest OHKOs of your life. Crouch Rest is great against rapid kicks and jabs. Everything else involves either poking them offstage until they die, or setting up an efficient OHKO when they miss a laggy ground move.
ICE CLIMEBRS
WD OOS grab
WD back > dash attack > a million up airs
Shield grab
Nana Blizzard > Popo Grab (or up smash if they jump)
Just get a grab combo going and go berserk. Or launch them above you and go berserk. Blizzard seems impenetrable to bad players and will prompt predictable bad projectile habits, blocking, or jumping. Uairs **** because they're disjointed. Just cheese them with juggles or throws and you're gold.
GANONDORF
Flail arms wildly
Flail legs wildly
Make sure you execute Fair a lot
Down throw combos
Ganon ***** noobs. Hit your l-cancels and make sure your throw combos and combos in general are HILARIOUS.
I'm not going through the entire cast by myself because I don't play every character. But add your own! Debate the viability of strategies against people that don't WD OOS, dash dance, WD back, or space effectively in general!
I will update this randomly and when I feel like it. I have a 4 hour break between classes on Tuesdays, so probably then. Enjoy!
