Should speech and conduct rules be enforced in the Smash community?

[Sheck]

I'm sure many of you have heard about what happened at a recent Capcom-organized Street Fighter x Tekken tournament. For anyone who hasn't, here's an article on it with some of the harassment being caught on camera.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/...al-imperative-the-ugly-side-of-fighting-games

I hope reading this and watching that video makes you cringe. I recently ran a small singles/doubles Brawl tournament in my college. Everything went fine, last match was an awesome Falco vs. Diddy that came down to the 5th match, and almost no one played Meta Knight. Well...almost everything went fine. We had one guy rolling Ganondorf. I guess that's his thing, because I've seen him do it before and he's not too bad. He knows how to AC and work through Ganon's weaknesses, but you can only expect so much playing the bottom tier character. My friend who plays Lucario 2-0'd him and said "Good game," extending his hand. He slapped my friend's hand away, threw a controller he was borrowing on the ground, and stormed out.

This was in the winner's bracket. He had at least one more match, but left, and if he hadn't, I would have told him to. I have zero tolerance for **** like that, and I would do the same if anyone were sexually harassing a female player. A video game scene has no need for drama or verbal assault. Constantly shouting "****," one of the most Earth-shattering and dehabilitating things that can happen to anyone, gives this community a really creepy vibe all around and possibly bars women from entering it.

I'm sure individual tournament runners make their own judgment calls with things like this. My question is whether or not we as a community think the unity ruleset should include conduct rules about harassment that goes beyond swaying the match (like yelling in someone's ear while they play), specifically sexual harassment. I think we as a community should stand up to this type of idiocy, and I would love to see the Backrooms augment their rulesets to include this. We should act like adults, even if some of us are kids. I know it's just a game, but that doesn't make it okay to hurt someone. Aris defended it by saying sexual harassment is a natural part of the fighting game scene, setting gamers back a decade. I think we as a community based on a fighting game need to tell him to go **** himself.

There are obvious reservations to have about the Backrooms enforcing speech rules, however, and I can totally see arguments on both sides panning out, and thought I would open this up for debate.

As you can see from my like...10 posts so far, I'm new to the forums. Should this go in another forum? Has this debate already occurred? I'm sure people have already argued over "****" and "gay," ad nauseam, but has anyone made a post about the rules being changed to reflect this?

 

[popsofctown]

This is actually the correct forum.

When I've heard this discussed before, most people tend to have the perspective that conduct rules like hate speech going in between matches is a venue issue, and if it occurs they get removed from the venue, and incidentally can't play in the tournament. I don't think the ruleset needs to include anything more than saying if you are asked to leave a venue the tournament is not going to come to you, you're DQed. Which words are ok and what's acceptable has to do with region and customs and the situation.

I was really excited when I clicked this thread because I thought it would be about unwanted speech being used as a distraction during games in order to gain advantage. ("Whiff it, whiff it, you're gonna whiff it" for instance)

 

[Nicknyte]

You know, Doll666 tends to shout "****" at tournaments too. I think the word barring women from entering isn't the main issue from that, it's just a conflict of interests.


But you make a solid point there buddy. No one wants a salty arse player running what should be a fun event revolving around their favorite Nintendo Characters. But some people with a lack of a better understanding of sportsmanship and intelligence will display these...outbrusts, and overall, bring our community down. I can't speak for the rest of the forum, but although the 1st Amendment is law here in the states, doesn't mean you have to put up with it in your tournament. People say insulting crap all the time, but when it is actually directed at a person, it becomes a problem. Sometimes, you don't even need to say anything....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUCaLjeFkyA

He even took down a guy in a leg cast.

You can't do psychological analysis before tournaments, but you can try to prevent people who have had a bad history in a community barred from joining.

And finally,


You can't remove the salt outta some people. Some people are really good, and would help a grandma cross the street, and fight a war, but would still be a disrespectful arse after a match. It's how it is.

 

[Bing]

lol Emily shouting ****. Its most likely her thats getting wrecked <-- obvious Joke <3

I think it comes down to common sense. Trash talk I think is fine. To an extent, its a fine like that people walk and some cant handle themselves. As for throwing **** and harrassment, **** that noise, remove them.

 

[Cherished Doll]

HMM.. LOL

 

[*Cam*]

I have mixed feelings about this.

I don't like the constant cursing, especially the heavy use of the words "*****" and "****." It's off-putting for a lot of people. People ask me a lot why I don't proactively look for sponsors for our Smash League in Alabama, and part of the reason is that I'm embarrassed to bring older folks in amongst all the shouting and cursing.

I'm reluctant to do anything about it because it's part of the culture. People get more excited when there's a lot of shouting and foul language circulating the room. I'm also reluctant because people seem to look down on T.O.s that kick players out. It strikes them as too harsh, even if the player has been warned several times beforehand.

Still, I think overall the community should clean up its act as far as rowdiness is concerned. We hosted a tournament at a college last weekend, and one of the R.A.s wanted to call security. She said it's because we had gone over our time by ten minutes (we were in the midst of cleaning up), but I also suspect it was mostly because of our behavior. It was not the first time something like this happened either. I'm supremely embarrassed when we go to IHOP and the players are extremely obnoxious and childlike. They throw straws and napkins around and curse loudly while there are children at the other tables. It's one thing to be unruly behind closed doors, but we should clean up our behavior in front of children or other people that may be offended.

 

[Bing]

HMM.. LOL

You know I say that with Love

 

[Nicknyte]

I just say "pemerkosaan". This is how I get away with saying it.

 

[Rubyiris]

when people say "****" offends a lot of people, I always wonder. I know a LOT of people. Most of them use the word "****" casually after hearing me, or other competitive gamers saying it, or just aren't bothered by it.

I always see it as one person, and maybe one of his friends getting offended, then saying hurr durr lots of people are offended.

Hey people, nearly everyone in this community are adults. People are going to be disrespectful. Oh well.

 

[popsofctown]

I have mixed feelings about this.

I don't like the constant cursing, especially the heavy use of the words "*****" and "****." It's off-putting for a lot of people. People ask me a lot why I don't proactively look for sponsors for our Smash League in Alabama, and part of the reason is that I'm embarrassed to bring older folks in amongst all the shouting and cursing.

I'm reluctant to do anything about it because it's part of the culture. People get more excited when there's a lot of shouting and foul language circulating the room. I'm also reluctant because people seem to look down on T.O.s that kick players out. It strikes them as too harsh, even if the player has been warned several times beforehand.

Still, I think overall the community should clean up its act as far as rowdiness is concerned. We hosted a tournament at a college last weekend, and one of the R.A.s wanted to call security. She said it's because we had gone over our time by ten minutes (we were in the midst of cleaning up), but I also suspect it was mostly because of our behavior. It was not the first time something like this happened either. I'm supremely embarrassed when we go to IHOP and the players are extremely obnoxious and childlike. They throw straws and napkins around and curse loudly while there are children at the other tables. It's one thing to be unruly behind closed doors, but we should clean up our behavior in front of children or other people that may be offended.

It happens to be offputting to me. I considered giving up smash after that particular tournament. I can't change the culture, just have to take it or leave it.

 

[TL?]

Having to formally state rules like the ones you suggested, in my opinion, make the community look even worse. It implies that mean, unpleasant people make up a significant part of the scene which isn't true. If you're a TO and someone at your tourney is a problem, you don't need some formally agreed ruleset to ask them to leave and not come back.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

I wish the word **** wasn't used, but it just has sadly become part of gaming vocabulary. But I like the idea of conduct rules that don't just pertain to the game. Some stuff really needs to be enforced since lines need to be drawn. We want to have a nice, safe, and non-scary environment at tournaments for regulars and newbies alike.

 

[Jam Stunna]

For those people saying you can't change culture, you certainly can. Make rules and seriously enforce them. When people realize that they can't say or do whatever they want, they'll definitely modify their behavior.

I once went to a tournament at a comic book store, and the owner asked us beforehand not to curse or use other rude language, because he still had other customers and he wanted to maintain a family friendly atmosphere. It wasn't a problem at all, and I don't think it should be a problem for any TO or host to ask the same from people attending their tournaments.

 

[Bones0]

Along the lines of what Jam says, the Smash community seems mostly accepting of rules as long as they are clearly laid out prior to an event. I know many tournaments have been run at churches, and I've never heard of anyone having any problems with cursing because the TOs just say it up front, "This is a church, so don't cuss." The difficulty in making the rule seems to be where to draw the line, and at what point are you restricting the community from being itself. Terms like "gay" and "****" are often right on the border. Most people would agree it's a horrible word in itself, but such a large majority of the casual gaming community is okay with it, and the competitive sect is even more nonchalant about it that it's hard to enforce a rule banning it, and even harder to care because there's no real issue when almost everyone at the event is using it in a completely informal context.

I used to say "gay" like crazy until someone at a smashfest took issue with it, and I have since successfully been able to break the habit completely of saying "gay" and "****" entirely (and believe me, it was actually REALLY hard). I think if you find these borderline words and other behaviors inappropriate, the best way to stop it is to lead by example. I've come up with a lot of cool synonyms for what I used to use "gay" and "****" for, so use them and hopefully they become popular. lol A lot of people want to come from the position that they have the right to say whatever they want and if people get offended that's there problem, but I think most successful communities (not just ones related to competitive gaming) gain much more in the long run from respecting others and who they are as people. I'd like to think I am part of community where people of any race, sex, or orientation are able to compete and enjoy themselves the same as anyone else.

Furthermore, I believe this attitude could certainly be extended to harassment of players for no particular reason other than how they play the game. There will always be players are a entertaining to watch and players who bore the **** out of a lot of people, but I think things that people have said to/about players (Hungrybox being targeted in particular) DURING MATCHES is really disrespectful. Everything from commentary saying he is "ruining the game" to people in the crowd shouting "GAY" is just childish. I think the best rule that could be applied to the Smash scene concerning behavior would be something like this:

"Crowd members who make obscene, disrespectful, and otherwise negative comments towards one or more players will be given a single warning. A second violation will result in immediate ejection from the venue without a refund for any and all venue and entry fees."

It's simple, reasonable, and I think would make for an overall healthier and more enjoyable tournament environment. It would also still allow fans to go nuts without worrying about breaking a rule because most cheering is actually for the purpose of CHEERing on the player you're rooting for ("**** HIM UP, MANGO!"), not for the purpose of trash talking the other player ("HEY ____, YOU ARE AN *******/******/any number of words that SmashBoards changes to asterisks.

 

[UltiMario]

>Banning non-offensive words from being said just because what they mean isn't a positive thing
>Implying saying more or less "bad" words that mean something equally non-offensive but getting the same message across is important.

Either way, if someone is telling you "you got beat hard/getting beaten down" (etc) or "you got *****!" means the same thing, and neither word is inherently offensive (such as some instances of people being called a n***** and the like), and the same message is being put across.

Basically, IMO, people should get pissy over fighting game "slang". The words have been thrown around forever, we all know what they mean. There's no intention of using their literal meanings, its just what people say.

Imagine someone getting pissy over someone saying something was "God like" as a compliment. It doesn't agree with their religious ideals or something, even though it was a compliment, so they get all pissy all over the real meaning. Should we censor this too because some people take things way too literally?

 

[KrIsP!]

^It shouldn't be the meaning yes but your intention when saying it. Aris just didn't know when to stop and when someone says, ok stop so I can concentrate and he keeps going but throws in your doing terribly then it's all on him. Terrible dude, not so much for doing it since, yeah he probably didn't mean to go that far, but for trying to rationalize it.

We do have a rule in this community, or it's usually just copy/pasta'd in tournament threads. It's keep trash talking to a minimal, we don't want to see someone get a punch to the face. You could be owning someone and say this is so free in a way that makes your opponent laugh or a way that makes your opponent discredit all their hard work.

 

[Sheck]

For those people saying you can't change culture, you certainly can. Make rules and seriously enforce them. When people realize that they can't say or do whatever they want, they'll definitely modify their behavior.

Aye. I've thought about it more. Maybe the conduct rules should just make it clear that any T.O. reserves the right to DQ anyone for inappropriate conduct or harassment. They say that yelling in someone's ear isn't okay, it should also say that sexually harassing women and picking fights/being unsportsmanlike aren't either. My main point in making this thread is that I would like to see the MBR and BBR acknowledge and respond to the recent controversy regarding the FGC, and let the playerbase know that this kind of inane bull**** won't necessarily be tolerated in the Smash community, again at the discretion of the T.O. I will be doing my part in any tourneys I organize in the future.

Probably could have used less acronyms in that paragraph.

 

[KrIsP!]

Well as people have said the MBR regards in-game rules and conduct is venue rules. Not much of a point to adding it into the ruleset since every venue is different while the game itself is a constant. Every TO should have their own set of venue rules based on their venue, some are venue specific like no eating or drinking in certain places and others should be common sense to always include like stalling and conduct. Just remember to say it's up to the TO's discretion on these rules.

 

[Kal]

This is an issue that bugs me somewhat. I've recently started to think that TOs should monitor conduct to some degree. The issue for most TOs is that it's usually a minority group (in the literal sense, not necessarily the racial sense) complaining, and so you are telling the majority to behave differently for it. Standing up for the minority and defending their rights is fine, but it's a difficult endeavor to pursue.

I am considering establishing a "good conduct" rule at future tournaments. Cheering a player is one thing, but deliberately trying to offend or deride someone is another. I like Bones0' post: if you have an issue with some aspect of the subculture, try and lead by example. The rule he writes is also good. I may just copy it for future events.

However, I would never try to force any sportsmanship rules. The line between general conduct and sportsmanship is very fine. If a player gets upset and storms off, that is his prerogative (and people are often totally unfamiliar with how difficult it can be for some players to control their tempers, which gives me some sympathy for people who do), but forcing players to behave as good sports goes against the idea itself. TOs will need to be careful to distinguish between a player merely being a bad sport, and one actually engaging in some sort of "misconduct."

 

[Bones0]

I agree with your distinction about sportsmanship. I think the line can be pretty easily drawn wherever behavior stops affecting results. Storming off after a match obviously isn't going to affect either player's performance directly, so there's no real reason to worry about it unlike howling insults from the crowd to derail a player's focus. This sort of taunting is already quite rare when it is coming from the crowd where people are essentially anonymous and can't be confronted by the victim, so I doubt it will be an issue outside of games where it becomes much more personal, especially in the Melee community.

 

[Fortune]

I wish the word **** wasn't used, but it just has sadly become part of gaming vocabulary.

"****" isn't part of the general gaming vocabulary. It's something I only see in the Smash community. When I started getting into the scene, I was definitely surprised to hear how often people would say "****." I know that for some people hearing "****" used in a positive sense all the time just seems wrong. I really don't like hearing players say "****" and "gay" constantly, and I have respect for players that try to avoid those words. I like Bones' attitude and appreciate how he tries to lead by example.

Using these words constantly puts forth a really unprofessional and negative image of the community. A few simple conduct rules could definitely help.

 

[commonyoshi]

My friend who has never played video games competitively says "****" all the time in pretty much the same way gamers would use it (trash talk). I think it's just part of societal language now.

 

[AlphaZealot]

"****" isn't part of the general gaming vocabulary. It's something I only see in the Smash community. When I started getting into the scene, I was definitely surprised to hear how often people would say "****." I know that for some people hearing "****" used in a positive sense all the time just seems wrong. I really don't like hearing players say "****" and "gay" constantly, and I have respect for players that try to avoid those words. I like Bones' attitude and appreciate how he tries to lead by example.

The use of the word is certainly wrong and should be abhorred when heard in any context in gaming. However: it is used in every single gaming community I've worked with/seen. From Smash, to Madden, to Halo, to CoD, to every other fighting game in existence (that is what the article is about, after all), to even Starcraft. It has bled into every gaming community.

 

[Fortune]

The use of the word is certainly wrong and should be abhorred when heard in any context in gaming. However: it is used in every single gaming community I've worked with/seen. From Smash, to Madden, to Halo, to CoD, to every other fighting game in existence (that is what the article is about, after all), to even Starcraft. It has bled into every gaming community.

That's really surprising to me. I've been playing video games for a long time, and I haven't ever really encountered that. Not even while playing Halo 3 on Xbox Live. It's unfortunate.

 

[Bones0]

You've played online Halo an haven't heard "*****"? lol That's incredible. I use to trash talk kids all the time for teh lulz, so I know for a fact that's where I originally learned to say **** all the time.

Let's see how long Croyt can go.

 

[Bing]

Never heard **** in another community? lol what? Do you have volume or anything? Cause like... thats almost impossible...

 

[Fortune]

I guess I must have heard it. I probably don't remember it because it never caught on with my group of friends.

lol I like how Croyt kicks the tv.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

i just dont like censoring, i love the whole concept of freedom of speech in this country( i wast born here). People should try to be respectful to each other but you cant censor peopel just because it migth offend someone, take everything with a grain of salt. I sometimes say things " oh **** man you got *****" after one of my friends loses really hard. Do i mean that he got sexually assaulted? No of course not, i just mean he got really dominated in the macth and wast able to figth back. People need to stop being so dam defensive to what people say and understand that their lucky people even take them into consideration, in some places in the world, if you dont have money or status your not even allowed to speak your mind. So lets not abuse our rigths by expecting other people to talk the way we want them to talk, if someone says something you dong like tell them, if they dont stop, thats their rigth at least you tried

 

[Linkshot]

The use of the word is certainly wrong and should be abhorred when heard in any context in gaming. However: it is used in every single gaming community I've worked with/seen. From Smash, to Madden, to Halo, to CoD, to every other fighting game in existence (that is what the article is about, after all), to even Starcraft. It has bled into every gaming community.

Then maybe we should be the bigger community and be the first to say "No, you can leave if you're going to do that." I know that one of the devs for Realm of the Mad God spoke up last year about the word "rapetrain", since he had a few friends refusing to play the game solely because of that term. He posted a thread and everybody collaborated to find a replacement term. They settled on simply "trains".

I think we, and every other gaming community, needs to do that, too. And not just for "****", either: for "gay", too. I don't really care if the majority isn't bothered by it; we have to see this from people outside that are taking a peek and deciding whether or not they want to invest their time/money into the community. I personally use "wrecked" and "imba" for "negative" terms and "sexy" for a "positive".

I also believe we need to encourage sportsmanship. A handshake or some equivalent at the end of every set should be mandatory to prove you're a good sport. Fighting games need to be recognized as sports, and allowing people to storm off is a hurdle in the way of that.

 

[KrIsP!]

Hand shakes should not be necessary, let people be good sports and don't force people to do it begrudgingly. Most people do it anyways right?

I do like wrecked though, I might use it.
Get wrecked *****es <-need a replacement for that word too. Although, it is really just a female dog and is used commonly on TV around the world. It only becomes bad when you use it in a derogatory fashion.

 

[Bing]

I cant stand it when people dont shake my hand, like even a fist bump. **** that noise. I lose almost all my sets at tournaments, I dont understand why someone cant extend their hand and say "Good Games Man". Like I am raging after some sets, the ones I should have won obviously. But I still have the sportsmanship to address their good play.

Now I can completely understand if there is an issue between said players, or if player a extends his hand and player b but player b just walks away, thats not player a's fault.

I dunno, if people truly want things to change, it has to start with minor things like this, a control of some players temper could be of great use too!

 

[Johnknight1]

Then maybe we should be the bigger community and be the first to say "No, you can leave if you're going to do that." I know that one of the devs for Realm of the Mad God spoke up last year about the word "rapetrain", since he had a few friends refusing to play the game solely because of that term. He posted a thread and everybody collaborated to find a replacement term. They settled on simply "trains".

I think we, and every other gaming community, needs to do that, too. And not just for "****", either: for "gay", too. I don't really care if the majority isn't bothered by it; we have to see this from people outside that are taking a peek and deciding whether or not they want to invest their time/money into the community. I personally use "wrecked" and "imba" for "negative" terms and "sexy" for a "positive".

I also believe we need to encourage sportsmanship. A handshake or some equivalent at the end of every set should be mandatory to prove you're a good sport. Fighting games need to be recognized as sports, and allowing people to storm off is a hurdle in the way of that.

I don't mind the use of "****" much as long as we try to "correct" it and acknowledge we shouldn't be using a word that describes such a disgusting and hideous act. I think "blowded up," "kaboomed," "kaboom," "kazaam," "shazaam," "shigglenuts," and "road killed" are way hipper terms than **** anyways.

Also instead of gay we should use "derp," "da-rum-dumb," or other stuff. I dunno.

Basically, be creative with your insults, have fun with them, and make them fun for everyone!

When I trash talk, I do just do the opposite of that! I talk trash! Whether Banana Peels, half eaten burgers, or your mom's diary, talking trash is always acceptable!

Also, the handshake is pretty much the untold rule. Part of me dreads it because I have naturally pretty sweaty hands, although I wash my hands A LOT! I've played in matches where we basically handshake/fist bumps after every kill. Actually, I prefer a super tight bro hug to handshakes, as long as the other dude ain't stankie! Bro hugs should be the new standard, actually. Maybe add a few bro humps to it, too. Those are never inappropriate.

 

[Linkshot]

IAlso, the handshake is pretty much the untold rule. Part of me dreads it because I have naturally pretty sweaty hands, although I wash my hands A LOT! I've played in matches where we basically handshake/fist bumps after every kill. Actually, I prefer a super tight bro hug to handshakes, as long as the other dude ain't stankie! Bro hugs should be the new standard, actually. Maybe add a few bro humps to it, too. Those are never inappropriate.

Yeah, that's why I said "or equivalent". Simply saying good game with a smile is equivalent to a handshake.

 

[Bing]

Those terms that were listed above made me lawl. I've never heard anyone use those terms.

Also I can agree with someone atleast telling me good games(And meaning it). I dunno, Im a true believer in sportsmanship and those are not aggrivate me :S

 

[Bones0]

I *pound* after every tournament match, but sportsmanship isn't something you can dictate. The hand shake after a game isn't what's important, it's what it means. If you make it mandatory, then it becomes meaningless. There's also no real proportionate response for someone breaking the rule. Are you going to DQ or eject someone from the venue for being (by your own standards) a poor sport?

 

[Bing]

I certainly dont believe that people should be dq'd for unsportsmanlike conduct. I mean what are we gunna have TO's spying to make sure theres a friendly gesture at the end of every set?

Or even worse, this scenario:

*Noob "A" runs up to TO*

"NOOB B DIDNT SHAKE MY HAND"

*TO DQ's Noob B*

End of ****ty Scenario.

If this happens, we might as well treat everyone as children beacuse that what we'd be. However I really dont see this ever happening.


I just wish the community as a whole was ALL for sportsmanlike conduct. To be honest, I've only had an issue with two people.


My worst experience I have had came at Apex with Someone In my Brawl pool. Im not going to throw out any names. But someone in my pool had severe anger issues. Anytime you'd take a stock, combo him or anything really, he would get increasingly angry and intense, to the point where his friends had to honestly keep telling him to calm down. It was rediculous. He was yelling "GRRRAJKFAA". He end up 2nd last in the pool. But yeah, it was so bad, I didnt want to finish my set against him.

I can respect frustration, intensity and anything of that sort, but when it gets to the point of shouting and distracting not only to the opponents but if its effecting other people then its an issue.

Like I will personally admit that I have shouted after a close set once or twice, and its something that I need to stop. Like me shouting "****!" after sding last stock is not tolerable.

I dunno, there does need to be changes in the community...

 

[Johnknight1]

Those terms that were listed above made me lawl. I've never heard anyone use those terms.

That's what I mean by being original. Do your own stuff, be super awesome, and always remember to beat that wh*** Nana every chance you get!

Also I can agree with someone atleast telling me good games(And meaning it). I dunno, Im a true believer in sportsmanship and those are not aggrivate me :S

This was definitely worth quoting. Giving a "good game" is always a good idea, and shows the class of smash!

Regardless, I kind of agree with Bones. Unless someone is yelling curse word after curse word, trash talking like a total jerk, being absolutely rude, etc. after warnings, it isn't really something that can be enforced (that well). It's more of a bro code. A Smash Bro code! It applies to Smash Broettes, too!

Let's hold ourselves to some high (but not impossible) standards: Talk like adults, act like adults, show sportsmanship like adults, and knee other people in the face like adults!

 

[The Good Doctor]

That instance in the OP is terrible, but the words "gay" and "****" will not bother me in the slightest. You can't please everyone all the time, and once you try problems will result. The behavior of that guy is disgusting, but the general idea of describing things as "gay" and "****" is part of the fighting game culture.

 

[KrIsP!]

I like the one episode of pure pwnage where Jeremy meets up with a gay guy and thinks that means he likes WoW.

What about the use of a certain derogatory term for homosexual? Considering the term is used more often in a 'you suck' context than what it actually is I think we should go the South Park route and change the definition. Besides, in Britain it means a lower classmen and awhile ago it meant cigarettes and before that it as a bundle of sticks.

I wanna know what started it being used as a derogatory term, googling time.

 

[DarkMarth]

Personally, I think society in general is becoming too overly-sensitive and PC. I would really hate to see this seep into gaming communities.