Should Planking (i.e. Ledgestalling) be Banned?

[Bladewing]

Putting a number on grabbing the edge does not eliminate planking, it probably reduces it, but it is still there.

That would defeat the whole purpose of what you're trying to do, because players CAN still plank.

Either way planking should not be banned as it is a strategy. As more players do it, people will come to learn how to overcome it.

The risk of attaining that number will discourage most if not all players from continuing to plank. I would rather reduce planking to a minimum then have everyone do it as a method of winning.

How could you win if all the opponent needs is a percent lead and then just runs away like a *****? Just today my brother was using Captain Falcon against me and planked the **** out of me!!! I used every character and there was just no point. My brother doesn't play Brawl nearly as much as I do.

 

[SothE700k]

Do his specials clank with projectiles that don't have laser priority? Like, would he just clash with my Din's Fire? I only know that this is sometimes the case with the tornado, depending on how strong my Din's is.

I thought nothing clanked with Din's Fire o_0

Related to topic: Everyone keeps talking about possibly lowering the limit of edgegrabs so why not?
Does ANYONE hit 70 in a full blown 8 minute match? I don't think Plank himself can pull that off...
Only way you can do that is to start the VERY SECOND of the match by grabbing a ledge and going from there, never getting hit, and never screwing up. Nothing but planking for 8 minutes. No action, no NOTHING.
70 is waaaayy too high.

 

[GwJ]

Um, at the point MK would be at for planking, his possible special specials would be drill rush and shuttle loop. Shuttle loop's got invincibility at first but it doesn't cancel any projectiles, I'm pretty sure that any projectile will hit MK out of drill rush at any time.

 

[_Phloat_]

Also, stalling and running away with fox isn't banned. If 2 players were to agree to go to Hyrule Castle, either could go fox and stall..


Just sayin.

 

[Brinzy]

I thought nothing clanked with Din's Fire o_0

Lots clank with Din's. Some moves don't clank after Din's gains a certain amount of power; others always clank; still others never clank.

 

[Ills]

Seriously, pick any character you want. I'll be a planking MK. Devise a strategy to make my planking disadvantageous for me.

Protip: taking a hostile tone is not a substitute for sound logic.

Select R.O.B. and I've erased a side of the stage. You can plank, but you're going to get shot by beams and tops in the process.

Protip: You do not possess said logic.

 

[bobson]

Do his specials clank with projectiles that don't have laser priority? Like, would he just clash with my Din's Fire? I only know that this is sometimes the case with the tornado, depending on how strong my Din's is.

His tornado definitely does, but I'm not sure about his others. I know his glide attack clanks.

Just because some projectiles can beat it doesn't mean the tactic should be viable.

Or any attack with a longer range than his sword, or tethers, or predicting him and hitting him out of it, or ledgehogging, etc.

By this logic, Sonic's stalling shouldn't be banned because half a dozen character can projectile him out of it.

Sonic's stalling shouldn't be banned because you can force him to kill himself by jumping out of his range.

 

[Crystanium]

If it is relative and you do think Plank was stalling, how do you define each objectively? I'm all for banning *stalling*, but that must be defined.

Where did I mention "stalling"? It's relative in that when Plank hit SK92 away, he could've continued fighting SK92 instead of knocking him off to the other side of the stage and quickly heading back to the edge again. It's relative, because there are certain points in time where one will need to grab onto the edge, such as being forced onto the edge. I know if Falco was continuously firing his Blaster at me, and I was a character who wasn't small like Kirby or had a reflective ability like Fox or an ability to absorb like Ness, I'd get to the edge. This would force Falco to approach me, and I could play close-combat.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

The word planking became popular after an infamous video of the player, Plank, using ledgestalling as a strategy to win a pivotal game in a large tournament (the ledgestalling begins at around the 4 minute mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=awI8Zz1EIE8 ). Since then (the video is rather old now), planking has evolved and gotten worse, making the strategy much more difficult to deal with for many characters on most stages. This has made planking into a much more widespread, controversial, and common occurrence, sparking this poll's creation.

That was the video that proves planking is broken? SK92 got down way before plank went to the ledge. Not only that, but SK92 missed a spike that could have ended the game when plank used drill rush and missed the ledge. Planking DID NOT win that game.

If planking has gotten worse than that video, which in my opinion wasn't even that bad, please provide more video links.

 

[illinialex24]

It should be allowed, its hard to win a game solely with planking, you have to still be smart. It just changes matchup numbers slightly.

 

[XienZo]

Sonic's stalling shouldn't be banned because you can force him to kill himself by jumping out of his range.

Thats not how Sonic's homing attack works; he'll still hit the ceiling even if you're standing below him.

I pick Mario and fireball you, I pick Ness/Lucas and PK Thunder you, I pick Snake and grenade drop/C4/Nikita you, I pick Pit and arrow you, I pick Zelda and Din's Fire you, etc. etc.
And remember, Metaknight's standard attacks don't cancel projectiles.

Can't MK get up and tornado you before returning to the ledge for half of the projectiles, and just time the ledge invincibility for the other half?

 

[illinialex24]

Thats not how Sonic's homing attack works; he'll still hit the ceiling even if you're standing below him.

From what I heard if you spot dodge on most stages he dies. So its not all that safe or useful either way.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Also, you might be able to hit MK with a few of the projectiles like Mario's fireball, but then what? It's just a bit of damage. I'll be ****ed if I ever saw anyone KO with a fireball.

Zelda in theory could KO a planking MK from safety, but Din's Fire is almost retardedly easy to dodge compared to other projectiles. Snake would have the best chance (with the Nikita and grenades), but MK can pretty much dodge everything quite easily with the insane amount of jumps and incredible priority of his specials.

 

[illinialex24]

Also, you might be able to hit MK with a few of the projectiles like Mario's fireball, but then what? It's just a bit of damage. I'll be ****ed if I ever saw anyone KO with a fireball.

Zelda in theory could KO a planking MK from safety, but Din's Fire is almost retardedly easy to dodge compared to other projectiles. Snake would have the best chance (with the Nikita and grenades), but MK can pretty much dodge everything quite easily with the insane amount of jumps and incredible priority of his specials.

A little bit of damage is huge.

And its hard to dodge Din's Fire offstage for 8 minutes straight. Remember, planking generally starts at like 20% differences, so small hits are huge.

 

[_Phloat_]

If MK is using an aerial, won't dins clash? Like, FF u-air and she can't hit because the hitbox is too big?

 

[XienZo]

From what I heard if you spot dodge on most stages he dies. So its not all that safe or useful either way.

Thats when he's recovering to the left or right of the stage, in which case he'll fall down to his doom. If he's stalling, AKA has a ceiling over his head, it'll stop him from falling down (weird, but thats how it works) and he'll bounce off of it and can repeat.

If MK is using an aerial, won't dins clash? Like, FF u-air and she can't hit because the hitbox is too big?

That works with every single character EXCEPT Metaknight (and some of Lucario's). His (sword) attacks have special priority and can't clash with anything. Except his glide and special attacks.

 

[illinialex24]

If MK is using an aerial, won't dins clash? Like, FF u-air and she can't hit because the hitbox is too big?

Yeah it generally does but the timing isnt that easy and Zelda can delay the release accordingly.

 

[bobson]

Also, you might be able to hit MK with a few of the projectiles like Mario's fireball, but then what? It's just a bit of damage. I'll be ****ed if I ever saw anyone KO with a fireball.

Damage > no percent lead > MK stops planking or loses.

 

[illinialex24]

Damage > no percent lead > MK stops planking or loses.

Right and even if you don't have a kill, Mario is fairly adept at turning a high percentage into a kill if the person is staying offstage.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

What if the MK has a stock lead instead of a percent lead? (which honestly isn't that hard for an MK)

 

[Falconv1.0]

Jack I dont know if you could make a worse ****ing analogy. Do not even kinda compare murder to a rule in a ****ing video game.

I swear grow some balls and stop being scrubs.

 

[Camalange]

(weird, but thats how it works)

No.

Ugh.

Sonic's homing stall works in the sense that it locks on to the other character. If an opponent is in invincibility frames from their own moves, spot dodging, air dodging, rolling or rolling up from an edge as the HA attempts to lock-on, it will result in a complete miss.

If Sonic is under the stage, and you are in the middle of the stage, Sonic will just keep bouncing into the same spot. You can GUIDE where you want Sonic to go just by walking, or you can just get out of range...

Sonic puts himself INTO RISK whenever he performs a Homing Stall, why it's banned is beyond me.

Just because people won't bother taking the time to learn how it works.

 

[XienZo]

No.

Ugh.

Sonic's homing stall works in the sense that it locks on to the other character. If an opponent is in invincibility frames from their own moves, spot dodging, air dodging, rolling or rolling up from an edge as the HA attempts to lock-on, it will result in a complete miss.

If Sonic is under the stage, and you are in the middle of the stage, Sonic will just keep bouncing into the same spot. You can GUIDE where you want Sonic to go just by walking, or you can just get out of range...like jump to a high platform, or just fly high up if you're a character like Jiggs, Kirby, Pit, etc.

Sonic puts himself INTO RISK whenever he performs a Homing Stall, why it's banned is beyond me.

Just because people won't bother taking the time to learn how it works.

OK, you sounded SO sure I booted up my Wii. The homing stall worked on the bottom on New Pork City while Peach stood on the very top right platform. I tried it on Spear Pillar with Peach standing in the cave, and Sonic could stall on the ceiling ABOVE her. I even used it in a treasure room in the subspace emmisary thing after I cleared everything.

The reason you don't understand its banned is because you don't know how the move works.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Doesn't matter what's decided, this game won't last through 2010.

 

[Full Metal X]

Will you people stop making idiotic rules and play the game?

What is the point of making these rules at all? Super Smash Bros. is just a game.

 

[Camalange]

OK, you sounded SO sure I booted up my Wii. The homing stall worked on the bottom on New Pork City while Peach stood on the very top right platform. I tried it on Spear Pillar with Peach standing in the cave, and Sonic could stall on the ceiling ABOVE her. I even used it in a treasure room in the subspace emmisary thing after I cleared everything.

The reason you don't understand its banned is because you don't know how the move works.

Whoops, that was my mistake.

But everything else is 100% true. Doesn't change the fact Sonic still isn't in control of where the homing attack goes.

 

[RP`]

Will you people stop making idiotic rules and play the game?

What is the point of making these rules at all? Super Smash Bros. is just a game.

Sure it's just a game. Games are meant to be played casually. But when you are talking about tournies then you are talking about money and other factors too.

 

[XienZo]

Whoops, didn't mean for that to be there.

But everything else is 100% true. Doesn't change the fact Sonic still isn't in control of where the homing attack goes.

Please try it on the Wii. Sonic can stall when there's no target or when a target is below him. As for the direction, Sonic will always move forward, which can be altered by B-reversal, unless he has to go down a steep area, like the bottom of BF and FD, which can still be traversed by timing the homing attack properly. Furthermore, Sonic can drift far enough between homing attacks that he can double or cancel the distance from bouncing off the ceiling.

I've looked into his homing attack for a while. The only way to stop it is to go down there or to send down a projectile.

 

[1048576]

I'm trying to think of a projectile that an awake planking MK wouldn't be able to easily dodge and that also isn't laggy enough for the MK to simply hop up and punish.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I haven't encountered this too much for it to personally effect me, but I've heard and seen it enough to actually not be full on neutral about it.

I don't agree with the judge deciding until we get a universal rule about it. Between False-Claims, Judge-Bias, and simply disrupting the flow of the match (I hate it when people pause in the middle of a match), I don't feel this is the best option available.

I also don't agree with being against it, only because it IS a form of stalling (or people wouldn't nick-name it Ledge "STALLING"), and enough people are having issues with it to actually be up in arms about it. If people want to try things and then vote on it later, I'd be fine with that.

I did as Samurai-Panda-Sama told, and played a friendly with my brother. Actually grabbing the ledge that many times does lead into being accused of stalling, and it's understandable. Yay that the Japanese are on top of things with their rule. It sounds silly, but it's understandable. People aren't going to be grabbing the ledge that many times unless A)They're being knocked the puck away that many times (Not as likely since they'd probably have just died or gotten gimped if they were being knocked off the edge so many times they'd reach such a high number of grabs) B) a Controller Malfunction (also lowly probably since in most cases that this is important, people make sure the controllers that they use are top of the line and in the best condition) or C) They are stalling (probably the most valid option). I'm sure there are other reasons (gimping people, a missed attack at the edge followed by a recovery, etc....), but it doesn't seem like a high number of ledge grabs in such a short time is possible. The "Japanese Ledge-Grab Number" rule seems the most logical, and so it shall be the one I side with. However, SBR Peoples, Tournament Hosts, and other of the Elite-Smash, you should decide on a good number for the American matches, so as the fewest people possible can still ditch about it.

THE DEMON HAS SPOKEN!

 

[§witch]

Banning it is nigh impossible as it then becomes a matter that the TO has to worry about making things much more complicated for him; also, it then has to be a judgment call, which again, sucks for the TOs.

An edgegrab limit would be worse, because someone would have to be counting and then it could be argued that they counted wrong, and the whole thing would just be one ****storm after another.

It has yet to become an epidemic of sorts and is not really a large problem yet; for now, it should be left alone.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Will you people stop making idiotic rules and play the game?

What is the point of making these rules at all? Super Smash Bros. is just a game.

I believe you are on the wrong website.

This is www.smashboards.com
You're looking for www.gamefaqs.com

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

honestly people, is it really that hard to jump ur *** down and counter plank? or spike ? or gimp? hell no it isnt hard at all so dont ***** about planking just jump off the side and put a hurtin on a *****

kill yourself, idiot

 

[XienZo]

An edgegrab limit would be worse, because someone would have to be counting and then it could be argued that they counted wrong, and the whole thing would just be one ****storm after another.

You didn't read the OP, did you...

For those who don't know, one of the statistics that the game records after a match is over (in the "winner" screen) is how many times the played grabbed the edge.

 

[cutter]

Doesn't matter what's decided, this game won't last through 2010.

I doubt the game will die THAT quickly; that's almost less than a year. I know where you're coming from, but personally I do not want this community to erupt into chaos. As long as people are still wanting to play the game it will still be around.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Also, this would probably be the best argument for banning MK right here, once planking becomes more widespread. Can anyone else in the game do it as effectively as MK?

 

[1048576]

I know, I'vetoyed around with the OMG MK causes so many problems IDC, ledgestalling, his own dominance; wh not just get rid of him and make the game leaps and bounds more fun right there.

The problem is we don't ban things for fun, and banning characters is at the bottom of the pecking order when a problem arises.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

When it comes to these discussions, I love how some people (usually those with no tournament credibility) act like they are robots with no ****ing conscience.


Play to win, yes, we all want to play to win - great, good, awesome, suck my ****.


However, if it were to be decided that Planking is a legitimate strategy it's basically going to come down to:

A. Everyone switches their mains to a character who can better deal with Planking, but probably has less of an advantage against MK (Switching your main from Falco to Pikachu just to deal with Planking, you'll lose anyway.. unless the MK sucks)

B. Metaknight dittos, get the first hit then Plank for the rest of the match. MK is the best planker and one of the worst at dealing with it.



Imagine a tournament scene where the finals is MK dittos, battle of the Plank. Sounds like loads of fun doesn't it? And this is after every other round has been an MK ditto with a Plank battle. I'd personally ****ing quit and go back to melee, a better game with a MUCH less of abundance of ridiculous annoying scrubs.


This is supposed to be a FUN COMMUNITY because the GAME is fun people, don't be ****ing ridiculous.


Some of you kids man

 

[RP`]

An edgegrab limit would be worse, because someone would have to be counting and then it could be argued that they counted wrong, and the whole thing would just be one ****storm after another..

In the post-game stats you can see how many time each player has grabbed the ledge.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Neo you're an ***

but totally correct