Should Planking (i.e. Ledgestalling) be Banned?

[Falconv1.0]

Correction: planking doesn't have to be stalling. But it obviously can be used for stalling, as we all know, and that shouldn't be allowed.

If you can attack the opponent while they are planking, they are by definition NOT ****ING STALLING.

Read my sig.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

...Stalling is dragging on the game, not playing defensively. And planking isn't stalling.

So basically why not allow the IDC, because that's stalling. Essentially MK needs a lead for one second and now he can float around forever and ever. Wow, just wow dude.

That's more than a bit different.

Some people make my desk hit my head.

I never knew I could control a desk via my computer.


Have your own opinion, that's fine, just don't get so ****ed self righteous about your own idea.

 

[Melomaniacal]

If you can attack the opponent while they are planking, they are by definition NOT ****ING STALLING.

Read my sig.

So stalling is fine because Azen can deal with it. I see what you're saying, but if that's the case, what is stalling? IDC, and only IDC? I'm pretty sure stalling doesn't require you to be untouchable. It requires you to be running the clock. If I'm running away from my opponent on Hyrule, am I not stalling because he can touch me?
If you plank enough to run the entire clock, you're stalling.

 

[Falconv1.0]

So stalling is fine because Azen can deal with it. I see what you're saying, but if that's the case, what is stalling? IDC, and only IDC? I'm pretty sure stalling doesn't require you to be untouchable. It requires you to be running the clock. If I'm running away from my opponent on Hyrule, am I not stalling because he can touch me?
If you plank enough to run the entire clock, you're stalling.

IDC is stalling because you cant be hit, and there's no real way to beat it. If they are planking you are more than welcome to get them to stop. It's camping, really mother ****ing gay camping, but still just camping.

 

[Melomaniacal]

IDC is stalling because you cant be hit, and there's no real way to beat it. If they are planking you are more than welcome to get them to stop. It's camping, really mother ****ing gay camping, but still just camping.

So, me running around Hyrule, avoiding contact is, by your definition, not stalling? By your definition, the only way to stall that I can think of is IDC. Stalling doesn't have to be unbeatable. Camping forces an approach, stalling... stalls the timer. Planking can accomplish either of these, and forcing an approach is no problem, but planking for literally three minutes straight (run to an edge, plank, run to another edge, plank) is stalling.

 

[Falconv1.0]

So, me running around Hyrule, avoiding contact is, by your definition, not stalling? By your definition, the only way to stall that I can think of is IDC. Stalling doesn't have to be unbeatable. Camping forces an approach, stalling... stalls the timer. Planking can accomplish either of these, and forcing an approach is no problem, but planking for literally three minutes straight (run to an edge, plank, run to another edge, plank) is stalling.

Hyrule is banned for so many reasons, including the fact that you can run away forever. For the last time, the only way they can really stall is if you choose to not beat it. If you think we should have judges decide if a player is stalling or camping I would gladly link you over to Yuna's posts on why arbitrary bans and judges dont ****ing work.

 

[Seagull Joe]

me and my bro had a doubles tourney match against plank himself on norfair the king planking area.every person went mk and me and my partner beat plank and his partner on norfair.all mk's all plankable versing the inventor of it on the number one planking place.idc if it is banned or not cause i beat the inventor of it at his own game.we did lose the set tho but won the match we wanted to.

 

[illinialex24]

But MK is the anti plank because his tools screw over other plankers. So yeah lol. But Mk doubles must have sucked.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I've gotta agree with Falcon with kind of different reasons.

I think Planking is the stupidest thing ever, but at this point shouldn't be banned. However, whether planking is clear-cut stalling or can be avoided because your opponent can hit you...we can argue that later. The reason I'm against banning Planking now is because it just flat out isn't a problem. Hardly anyone planks, and we shouldn't ban something hotly disputed when nobody really does it.

And I know I'm repeating myself so, so many times, but even if planking was a problem, an outright ban on it would be silly. If it became a serious problem, the Japanese ledge-grab rule (with obviously some tweaks) would work, because it would still promote ledge-camping, but not ledge-stalling.

At any rate, we really shouldn't go on a power-trip, banning things that might not even need banning. It's waaay too early to decide on this.

 

[RP`]

we shouldn't ban something hotly disputed when nobody really does it.

IDC. Not many people used it. It didn't really last for long and it was still banned. Just mentioning this because you shouldn't use popularity or lack of popularity as a reason to ban or not ban something.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Hyrule is banned for so many reasons, including the fact that you can run away forever. For the last time, the only way they can really stall is if you choose to not beat it. If you think we should have judges decide if a player is stalling or camping I would gladly link you over to Yuna's posts on why arbitrary bans and judges dont ****ing work.

I was just giving an example.
It just seems that by your logic, there's no such thing as stalling, only people letting other people stall. Maybe I'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say, but so far it all seems like you're saying "the only form of stalling is IDC because nothing else makes you untouchable." There are many ways to stall, and they don't all involve you becoming untouchable or invulnerable. Stalling is stalling. And who would chose not to beat anything?

And I've said this many times, but I am against a judge ruling, and if it weren't for the ledge grab rule, I'd be voting against a ban. I have no problems with planking, but using it as a stalling technique shouldn't be allowed. The ledge grab rule eliminates it as a stalling technique, while it's still usable as a defensive technique. The bottom line is this: if the timer runs out and you have grabbed the ledge a ridiculous amount of times (say 50 or so in 7/8 minutes), you were stalling. Yes, you can argue that the opponent just didn't know how to handle it, but the point is you were using it to stall the match. You stalled. That's it.

The ledge grab rule is not banning planking. You can't think of it as a "ban planking" rule, it's more of a "just-in-case" rule about stalling, and using planking to stall. It does not eliminate planking by any means. It just prevents that ******** BS we all have seen in those infamous videos.

I'll say it again: the ledge grab rule does not ban planking.

 

[illinialex24]

The ledge grab rule is not banning planking. You can't think of it as a "ban planking" rule, it's more of a "just-in-case" rule. It does not eliminate planking by any means. It just prevents that ******** BS we all have seen in those infamous videos.

I'll say it again: the ledge grab rule does not ban planking.

Well it stops everything that isn't banned. Sonics B under stage is banned and everyone else has to touch the ledge either through a lightstep or other.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Well it stops everything that isn't banned. Sonics B under stage is banned and everyone else has to touch the ledge either through a lightstep or other.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, haha. I blame my eye migraine

How exactly does the ledge grab rule stop everything that isn't banned? How many of those things will have you grab the edge 40+ times and result in a timed out match without you actually stalling?
Unless you're saying that to stop things like Sonic's B under the stage, one would have to grab the ledge a lot. If that's the case... don't try to stop him? He's stalling. That, or try to stop him, I doubt you'll grab the ledge even 40 times and also result in a time out.

 

[illinialex24]

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, haha. I blame my eye migraine

How exactly does the ledge grab rule stop everything that isn't banned? How many of those things will have you grab the edge 40+ times and result in a timed out match without you actually stalling?
Unless you're saying that to stop things like Sonic's B under the stage, one would have to grab the ledge a lot. If that's the case... don't try to stop him? He's stalling. That, or try to stop him, I doubt you'll grab the ledge even 40 times and also result in a time out.

No I am saying an edgegrab rule of a continuous 10 times or more (which would likely be the rule) without an attack in between (so to prevent long edgeguarding) would be banned. Sonic's homing stall is banned and does not involve grabbing the ledge, but for every other character their attamepts would be banned because none can stall out that long without grabbing. 40 is a lot and so the match would like time out but at least it gives them a chance.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Sonic's homing stall is not a real stall. It's just banned anyway

 

[Melomaniacal]

No I am saying an edgegrab rule of a continuous 10 times or more (which would likely be the rule) without an attack in between (so to prevent long edgeguarding) would be banned. Sonic's homing stall is banned and does not involve grabbing the ledge, but for every other character their attamepts would be banned because none can stall out that long without grabbing. 40 is a lot and so the match would like time out but at least it gives them a chance.

Really? I've always assumed it would be like the Japanese ledge grab rule. If the timer runs out and you grabbed the ledge 70 times, you lose that match. The number would be different because I believe they play 10 minute matches, but you get the point. I don't like the way you described it.

So you want to give characters a chance to stall?

 

[XienZo]

No I am saying an edgegrab rule of a continuous 10 times or more (which would likely be the rule) without an attack in between (so to prevent long edgeguarding) would be banned. Sonic's homing stall is banned and does not involve grabbing the ledge, but for every other character their attamepts would be banned because none can stall out that long without grabbing. 40 is a lot and so the match would like time out but at least it gives them a chance.

That would require a judge, and therefore be impractical in large tournaments.

Besides, whether its continuous or not doesn't make that big or a difference as the overall number of times, especially since repeatedly grabbing the ledge 9 times in a row every minute would still lead to 70 ledge grabs.

 

[AvaricePanda]

IDC. Not many people used it. It didn't really last for long and it was still banned. Just mentioning this because you shouldn't use popularity or lack of popularity as a reason to ban or not ban something.

note: hotly disputed.

If anyone thought IDC should have been legal, they were stupid. With IDC, you literally could not touch your opponent because your opponent was literally invisible, invincible, and untouchable. No question about it. Obviously that's going to be banned, because no character or person with any amount of skill can get past it.

Planking's different. Planking doesn't give you clear-cut invincibility, and you can technically approach and attempt to hit the planker. The problem here is that if you go to attack, you're putting yourself in a position in which you'll easily get gimped and die, or at least suffer a lot of percent. But it's still physically possible to approach a planker, unlike IDC.

Plus, some characters do have options to stop planking. Pikachu can use his neutral B, Diddy can arc bananas, etc. Planking isn't invincible for every character. However, Planking does destroy at least half of the cast, and they have no viable options to stop it other than putting themself in a disadvantageous position.

Which is why some can argue that planking shouldn't be banned, because it's still physically possible (although stupid and disadvantageous) to hit your opponent, and you're stalling just as much as he is if you aren't trying to approach. And some argue that planking should be banned, because it shuts down way too many characters and there's nothing you can do about it for them, and stalling is already banned, so planking should be too.

There really is a lot of debate about planking, whereas with IDC it was obvious that it had to be banned.

Personally, I hate planking and think it's stupid, but I don't think it should be banned at this point. It really is too early to vote. Not enough people plank to the point where it's even a valid problem at any tournament. That combined with the fact that some characters can get past it, and possibly even more when more people experiment with getting past planking, basically secures my thought that it's way too early to do anything about planking.

 

[RP`]

note: hotly disputed.

If anyone thought IDC should have been legal, they were stupid. With IDC, you literally could not touch your opponent because your opponent was literally invisible, invincible, and untouchable. No question about it. Obviously that's going to be banned, because no character or person with any amount of skill can get past it.

Planking's different. Planking doesn't give you clear-cut invincibility, and you can technically approach and attempt to hit the planker. The problem here is that if you go to attack, you're putting yourself in a position in which you'll easily get gimped and die, or at least suffer a lot of percent. But it's still physically possible to approach a planker, unlike IDC.

Plus, some characters do have options to stop planking. Pikachu can use his neutral B, Diddy can arc bananas, etc. Planking isn't invincible for every character. However, Planking does destroy at least half of the cast, and they have no viable options to stop it other than putting themself in a disadvantageous position.

Which is why some can argue that planking shouldn't be banned, because it's still physically possible (although stupid and disadvantageous) to hit your opponent, and you're stalling just as much as he is if you aren't trying to approach. And some argue that planking should be banned, because it shuts down way too many characters and there's nothing you can do about it for them, and stalling is already banned, so planking should be too.

There really is a lot of debate about planking, whereas with IDC it was obvious that it had to be banned.

Personally, I hate planking and think it's stupid, but I don't think it should be banned at this point. It really is too early to vote. Not enough people plank to the point where it's even a valid problem at any tournament. That combined with the fact that some characters can get past it, and possibly even more when more people experiment with getting past planking, basically secures my thought that it's way too early to do anything about planking.

I am not comparing IDC to planking. I just don't think popularity should be a factor in the final decision. Either Planking should be banned, or it shouldn't. Why should we acknowledge something being cheap but think it is Ok and wait until everyone does it? Does that make it any more or less a cheap strategy? And how will it be in the clear to not be banned if only few people do it?

 

[TLMSheikant]

So what ur saying is we must wait until it is a problem?? When we all know it will become a problem and is a problem already at some tournies.

 

[XienZo]

Honestly, I think that the best parallel to to planking is Hyrule temple and other stages. Its POSSIBLE to hit Sonic (or even Ganondorf, really) while he runs around in the loops, but most of the time, a good player can keep the 10% advantage for 8 minutes, and most importantly, little happens after the first hits, the depth of the game crashes, and the metagame likewise dies.

 

[ArcPoint]

I am not comparing IDC to planking. I just don't think popularity should be a factor in the final decision. Either Planking should be banned, or it shouldn't. Why should we acknowledge something being cheap but think it is Ok and wait until everyone does it? Does that make it any more or less a cheap strategy? And how will it be in the clear to not be banned if only few people do it?

Overcentralization. If it overcentralizes the metagame, it's bannable.

 

[MajinSweet]

So what ur saying is we must wait until it is a problem??

YES GOD **** IT YES. YES. YES. YES. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YES. You do NOT ban something for a "preemptive" strike on a tactic. Because one: The tactic might not end up as strong as you think, so your ban would end up hurting the game because you didn't let it evolve, thus stunting the meta game. Two: If something PROVES to be too good then fine, ban it, in the LONG RUN, it won't be a big deal if some one ruins a bunch of tournaments. Those tournaments are nothing compared to possibly ruining the whole game.

When we all know it will become a problem

You don't know crap about what will happen. I could probably list a couple million things people have said WILL HAPPEN from this site, when in fact, none of them did. Games are much harder to predict than most people realize.

and is a problem already at some tournies

The "problem" (Which I use loosely because you see it as a problem, I don't) is not nearly wide spread enough to constitute a ban. This is not a specific move or stage, this is a tactic based on grabbing a ledge. This is a move extremely embedded with the game play of Brawl. If you make rules altering how players interact with that, you are directly altering how people play the game, not just in what way you play it. I would only ban planking if it really became the only way to win, which I highly doubt it will. Planking is strong, but it is not unbeatable.

 

[1048576]

How many plank vs. SK92 vids do you need to see before you believe it's a problem?

 

[MajinSweet]

How many plank vs. SK92 vids do you need to see before you believe it's a problem?

Missing the point completely. Just because one player falls prey to a tactic doesn't mean it can't be stopped. Has Azen lost sets to planking? M2K? DSF? NinjaLink? Dojo? A million other people it won't bother to name. One example of something means nothing for a large scale competitive game that is currently being played world wide. As I said before, Planking has NOT EVEN COME CLOSE to dominanting tournaments, and until that happens, there isn't any reason to add more made up rules to a game that already carries the burden of needing to use a lot of made up rules. These artificial rules that exist out side the game should be avoided whenever possible, they act as a wall for new people to climb before they can get into the game. The longer the list of these rules, the higher the climb. That has always been a down side for smash compared to traditional fighters and sadly the smash community gets a lot of flak for it, and recently we have made it even worse with Brawl.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Oh wow, Plank planked for an entire set, so it MUST obviously be a problem!!!

One set in one tournament does not mean that it's a problem.

There are only 3 memorable matches I can think of at any high or close to high level of play where people planked. Plank vs. SK92, Fiction vs. Tyrant (I think), and SCOTU vs. Epic (which was just for lols and SCOTU didn't place well anyway). Three matches. Three effing matches. That's not a problem.

MajinSweet said all that could be said. We should wait until it becomes a problem, because honestly, how many matches against plankers have half of you faced? Either most probably none, or one, and you got fed up and wanted to ban it.

Honestly, people don't have enough experience against planking to really see if it's a valid problem or not. As of now, around a fourth to thirdish of characters have perfectly safe options against planking, and maybe another fourth has options, just not perfectly safe. As of now, about half of the cast gets owned by planking, but what if there's a valid option against it that we don't know enough about it yet? Am I saying there will be one? No. But there's a possibility, so why ban something that's not ban-worthy now?

We don't know if it will become a problem either. Nobody can predict what happens. Planking could be very popular, or it could be shunned upon by the community.

And lol@it being a problem already at some tourneys. Don't say random things. Please show me tournament results where an MK won largely because of planking throughout the whole time. You won't.

It's really too early. Not enough people plank for it to become a problem. And really, it's been known since late September, so everyone freaking about how it's going to spread fast is pretty darn wrong (still hardly anyone planks after half a year).

 

[XienZo]

YES GOD **** IT YES. YES. YES. YES. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YES. You do NOT ban something for a "preemptive" strike on a tactic. Because one: The tactic might not end up as strong as you think, so your ban would end up hurting the game because you didn't let it evolve, thus stunting the meta game. Two: If something PROVES to be too good then fine, ban it, in the LONG RUN, it won't be a big deal if some one ruins a bunch of tournaments. Those tournaments are nothing compared to possibly ruining the whole game.

What about Brawl-setting (no explosives) items? Did we wait for those to be a problem?

 

[deepseadiva]

There's a difference between standing in the middle of the highway and standing in an empty street.

 

[SkylerOcon]

What about Brawl-setting (no explosives) items? Did we wait for those to be a problem?

The SBR was testing them for a while, if I recall correctly. That's why we didn't get the first rules list a week after Brawl came out -- I think they were still testing items (could be wrong, so feel free to correct me).

And for those of you who feel like using items, there is ISP which is a very different game.

And why do I get the feeling that we're getting an even worse 'if you cant beat it ban it' that Meta-Knight?

 

[XienZo]

The SBR was testing them for a while, if I recall correctly. That's why we didn't get the first rules list a week after Brawl came out -- I think they were still testing items (could be wrong, so feel free to correct me).

They spent a few months messing with them, calculated some stuff on paper, deduced that all items are harmful to the metagame despite Brawl's ability to turn off containers, and most importantly, banned them before any major use in tournaments(that knew what they were doing).

On the other hand, Melee had items on for some years before they were banned, due to explosive stuff landing infront of your smash attack, which was resolved in Brawl.

 

[SkylerOcon]

This is why Brawl has an ISP and Melee doesn't (or at least that I know of -- my knowledge of Melee is lacking). It's pretty much community preference to have items banned. When pretty much the entire competitive Brawl community -- not 60%, not 80%, but pretty much 99.9% of competitive players want items off they will be off.

Of course, planking isn't like this. As you can see, there still is a number of people who want planking to be allowed. Not enough to warrant planking to be shut off just because the community doesn't like it.

 

[XienZo]

This is why Brawl has an ISP and Melee doesn't (or at least that I know of -- my knowledge of Melee is lacking). It's pretty much community preference to have items banned. When pretty much the entire competitive Brawl community -- not 60%, not 80%, but pretty much 99.9% of competitive players want items off they will be off.

And thus, we banned them out of preference, instead of waiting for it to be a problem.

Of course, planking isn't like this. As you can see, there still is a number of people who want planking to be allowed. Not enough to warrant planking to be shut off just because the community doesn't like it.

But in the end, you're saying that our overall preference has precedence over whether its broken or not? We should ban stuff because we don't like it? What did Sirlin say on this matter?

 

[SkylerOcon]

Sirlin has no relevance to this. You can post links to all of the articles by him that you want, but it won't change the fact that there are many times when what he says just doesn't matter -- this is one of those times. I don't recall him ever playing SSB competitively and no other fighting game can really have something like planking.

Essentially, if a TO were to turn on something that he knew all of the players didn't like, nobody would come to play. This is why community preference is important. If you host an items tourney, you probably won't see near the number as a standard no-items tourney.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

so What Ur Saying Is We Must Wait Until It Is A Problem??

Yes God **** It Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. For The Love Of God Yes. You Do Not Ban Something For A "preemptive" Strike On A Tactic. Because One: The Tactic Might Not End Up As Strong As You Think, So Your Ban Would End Up Hurting The Game Because You Didn't Let It Evolve, Thus Stunting The Meta Game. Two: If Something Proves To Be Too Good Then Fine, Ban It, In The Long Run, It Won't Be A Big Deal If Some One Ruins A Bunch Of Tournaments. Those Tournaments Are Nothing Compared To Possibly Ruining The Whole Game.

when We All Know It Will Become A Problem

You Don't Know Crap About What will Happen. I Could Probably List A Couple Million Things People Have Said Will Happen From This Site, When In Fact, None Of Them Did. Games Are Much Harder To Predict Than Most People Realize.

and Is A Problem Already At Some Tournies

The "problem" (which I Use Loosely Because You See It As A Problem, I Don't) Is Not Nearly Wide Spread Enough To Constitute A Ban. This Is Not A Specific Move Or Stage, This Is A Tactic Based On Grabbing A Ledge. This Is A Move Extremely Embedded With The Game Play Of Brawl. If You Make Rules Altering How Players Interact With That, You Are Directly Altering How People Play The Game, Not Just In What Way You Play It. I Would Only Ban Planking If It Really Became The Only Way To Win, Which I Highly Doubt It Will. Planking Is Strong, But It Is Not Unbeatable.

This
Omfg This.

 

[Jack Kieser]

This is why Brawl has an ISP and Melee doesn't (or at least that I know of -- my knowledge of Melee is lacking). It's pretty much community preference to have items banned. When pretty much the entire competitive Brawl community -- not 60%, not 80%, but pretty much 99.9% of competitive players want items off they will be off.

Of course, planking isn't like this. As you can see, there still is a number of people who want planking to be allowed. Not enough to warrant planking to be shut off just because the community doesn't like it.

It's always nice to see someone who is smart enough to recognize when something is a preference or not.

 

[Melomaniacal]

This is why Brawl has an ISP and Melee doesn't (or at least that I know of -- my knowledge of Melee is lacking). It's pretty much community preference to have items banned. When pretty much the entire competitive Brawl community -- not 60%, not 80%, but pretty much 99.9% of competitive players want items off they will be off.

Of course, planking isn't like this. As you can see, there still is a number of people who want planking to be allowed. Not enough to warrant planking to be shut off just because the community doesn't like it.

But the ledge grab rule absolutely does not "shut off" planking. You can still plank plenty with the rule, it literally just their to ensure that no one planks for 7 minutes straight. Honestly, with the rule in play, I doubt anyone will even think or worry about it. You can still plank with the rule.

People need to stop thinking of it as a ban on planking. It isn't.

Come to think of it, the infamous Plank vs. SK92 match would've been legal. The timer did not run out.

 

[adumbrodeus]

But the ledge grab rule absolutely does not "shut off" planking. You can still plank plenty with the rule, it literally just their to ensure that no one planks for 7 minutes straight. Honestly, with the rule in play, I doubt anyone will even think or worry about it. You can still plank with the rule.

People need to stop thinking of it as a ban on planking. It isn't.

Come to think of it, the infamous Plank vs. SK92 match would've been legal. The timer did not run out.

Yes it would have been legal, but the dynamics of the match would be totally different.


The reason is simple, SK92 was FORCED to approach via the time mechanics, that put him into a vulnerable position which Plank capitalized on.


Without the the "whoever has higher damage when the timer runs out" rule being in effect (namely if the ledge grab limit in place) then SK92 would be content with not approaching, thus forcing Plank to approach effectively because planking continuously would cost him the match.

 

[TheFast]

But the ledge grab rule absolutely does not "shut off" planking. You can still plank plenty with the rule, it literally just their to ensure that no one planks for 7 minutes straight. Honestly, with the rule in play, I doubt anyone will even think or worry about it. You can still plank with the rule.

People need to stop thinking of it as a ban on planking. It isn't.

Come to think of it, the infamous Plank vs. SK92 match would've been legal. The timer did not run out.

If the opponent gets planked for 7 minutes they must be doing nothing about it (I guess they could be using a character that cant do anything about it, but as planking progresses it might show certain character to be "non-tourney viable" characters) In that SK92 match, he really doesnt try much to get around planking. He could of at least tryed a number of things such as, wall jump to Dair, bair of the side, or reflector near the edge hopping for a slight slip in Planks planking (if he would mess up he would then go slightly above the edge). As I recall he just stood on the opposite side and Shoot lasers >_>. Not saying these ideas would work, but if he was about to lose he could of tryed something. I find this example to be invalid. If he tryed something and it didnt work than this example would be a little more compelling but still written off as the fact that falco might not be able to do anything against planking. Well go cry about it. If you play Falco learn to get around planking with him or accept the fact that you cannot play him. The brawl communities stand on "If I cant beat it, ban it" is getting really old really fast.

Aslo if people keep reffering to planking as stalling I'm going to scream >=(

Also the ledge grab rule is stupid because if something is agree that it needs limits than it should be agreed that this tactic is broken. Limits should not be placed, epecially (spelling) limits that will limit stuff that is not the tactic under question. Ban or dont ban, but dont put a stupid limit that will limit the players playing styles out of fear for losing when they have done no tactics that are concidered broken.

 

[King Funk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phRs10GVwvg&feature=related

I think this match is a better example of planking, used by Plank throughout the whole match (from beginning to end), and the round right before the example video given in the first post. I'd recommend using this video rather than the other one.

 

[brinboy789]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phRs10GVwvg&feature=related

I think this match is a better example of planking, used by Plank throughout the whole match (from beginning to end), and the round right before the example video given in the first post. I'd recommend using this video rather than the other one.

some dude in the comments section said that he used 69 ledge grabs. so by the ledge grab rule, this would be a legitimate match