Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[adumbrodeus]

The fact of the matter is Meta Knight is absurdly amazing at planking at a much better margin than that of Pit, GAW, and Marth. Marth can plank well too, some of you are forgetting that. But yeah to wrap this point up: Meta Knight is the whole reason why that "50 ledge hops a match" crap was brought into the picture. No doubt about that.

Nic64-You can stop talking......................................................now.

No.

Marth sucks at planking.

He's got a good planking move, but his pathetic ledge game combined with the fact that you can still ledgesteal against him makes him bad at planking. Dolphin Slash has no hitbox if you do this, so ledgestealing is easy. Overall, don't bother.

 

[bobert4936]

nah just play him if u think hes so cheap

 

[Sosuke]

If he is facing any of the following characters that go BELOW the stage at any point in time...they die.


Toon Link

Toon Link has bombs.

 

[P. O. F.]

Toon Link has bombs.

A Toon Link player is going to

A-DI
B-Grab a bomb and try to throw it at MK before they recover.
C-IF hit...mk goes UP after the hit...he can just swoop down and dair him. It's an easy gimp if hes low.

Even so, that is still only one player out of that list argued.

Really Fox isn't that much at a disadvantage as long as you stay as far away as possible.

He's just easier to gimp is really all.

Fox can't do anything against tornado. He loses.

It's really so easy to pick up Meta Knight and start ****** tournaments. Plenty of players do it. lol

 

[princessofsmash]

no, and thats what i voted for. there should of been more Kirby characters in the first place anyways.

 

[Sosuke]

A Toon Link player is going to

A-DI
B-Grab a bomb and try to throw it at MK before they recover.
C-IF hit...mk goes UP after the hit...he can just swoop down and dair him. It's an easy gimp if hes low.

Toon Link
Holds the bomb
And waits for it to explode
Giving him another Up-B.

This + proper DI = safe.



And Toon Link would throw a boomerang, not a bomb.

 

[thumbswayup]

The fact of the matter is that MK is broken, it just has yet to be determined if he's ban worthy or not.

 

[Nic64]

The fact of the matter is that MK is broken, it just has yet to be determined if he's ban worthy or not.

 

[princessofsmash]

the fact of the matter is that there are too many Metaknight debates on this flippin forum!

 

[Sosuke]

http://broken.urbanup.com/103983

I'd say he fits the general definition, but not the one for games.

 

[adumbrodeus]

the fact of the matter is that there are too many Metaknight debates on this flippin forum!

It's what happens when you have a controversial topic.

Especially when people are ignoring the basis of the question and just discussing the question itself, cause what always happens is we go around in circles.

 

[P. O. F.]

Says the Meta Knight main.

http://broken.urbanup.com/103983

I'd say he fits the general definition, but not the one for games.

Sigh....meta knights dair off stage.



Meta Knight is broken. Can we all agree to that at least?

 

[thrillagorilla]

Let us say that a certain character gets knocked off of Final Destination VS Meta Knight and is sent flying and is around 90-100%. We all know that once Meta Knight grabs a ledge he regains ALL of his FIVE jumps back.

If he is facing any of the following characters that go BELOW the stage at any point in time...they die.

Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Falco
Ike (Good luck spiking MK Ike)
Link
Lucario
Lucas (Have fun trying to whirl around your upb while I have five jumps and a dair that will make it impossible for you to come back)
Ness ^^^
Mario
Bowser
Fox (youe njoy charging that up B while I have two seconds to get over to you and dair you)
Luigi (side/down B? that's funny man. eat a dair.)
Wolf (get an up B, i'll just dair your side B)
Sheik
Marth (Marth CAN make it back but all marth needs to do to get gimped by a dair below the stage is jump...then mk ***** him)
Pikachu
Toon Link (you're too floaty....i'll just dair you)


I mean seriously, think about all of these characters and their recovery options when below MK trying to make it back up to the stage. The dair sends you at a friggin like 30 degree angle that you have no prayer in coming back unless you are on smashville and you get lucky with the moving platform being on that side. You could argue that "well, you can hit MK off stage and time an attack or recovery before he makes his dair approach" ok? But the difference between anyone VS MK is that he has five jumps, (While you have one) has PLENTY of gimp options (Kirby, Jigglypuff, and Charizard DO NOT) and is not a huge target to hit (DDD, Charizard)

It's not Meta Knights on stage game that makes him stupid. I can deal with dsmashes, d tilts, f tilts, etc. It's his off stage game that makes him dumb.

I figured I'd comment on the characters I knew about.

Fox will be using side-B to recover, not up-b. He has his helicopter jump and shine stall to aid him there. If by random chance a Fox does need to use up-b to get to the ledge, he was likely to die anyways.

DK will not be below the stage when facing a Metaknight. Ever. If he is, he either just pulled off a spike attempt, or he is recovering wrong. Invincibility frames on his up-b aid with any kind of problems he might have when recovering parallel to the stage.

Bowser is in the same boat as DK, minus the spike scenario.

Just thought I'd mention those...

 

[Sosuke]

^
He said if they end up BELOW the stage.

 

[Affinity]

Pikachu doesn't get gimped even near that easily.

 

[thrillagorilla]

^
He said if they end up BELOW the stage.

My point still stands. Fox can get back up with his helicopter jump. Bowser and DK simply won't ever go there, and if they are forced there they would die against most characters anyways, so its not as if Metaknight is special in that regard. I fail to see P.O.F.'s point with these characters, that's all.

 

[Curaga]

Yeah, all that stuff happens if you're below the stage and MK is in ripe position. A lot of the time with some of these characters, being below the stage puts you at a severe disadvantage against anyone, not just MK.

Pikachu is debatable, but I don't think that characters being below the stage is a good basis for debate.

o_o

 

[Nic64]

Says the Meta Knight main

I play Snake a little bit more than MK, and I'd always prefer Snake vs MK to a ditto, so I still call BS on him being broken. Ban worthy is an entirely different argument, he could be ban worthy without being broken, but he's clearly not broken.

 

[Thinkaman]

Yes, it's so easy for Meta Knight to gimp people because of his unmatched aerial mobility.

Oh wait.

If you are knocked off the stage, MK shouldn't be anywhere near you. If he is, then what were you doing fighting Meta Knight around the edge of the stage? Pretty much everyone except Falcon and Ganondorf can expect to make it back, and those two get gimped easily by most the cast, some far worse than MK.

 

[Tommy_G]

Captain Falcon, Link, Pokémon Trainer, Samus, Lucas, Fox, Peach, Toon Link, Olimar, R.O.B. and Marth. Source being this. Some of those are somewhat debatable, though.

C Falcon goes 80-20 with Marth, gets cg-ed by D3 and falco, and can't outrange snake. CF is made unviable by every top/high tier character.
Link get Cged by d3 and Falco. Falco can get the spike at the end of the CG and get free stocks off of grabs.
PT, all 3 pokemon gets grabbed into chainspike by falco for easy stocks. After that laser camp simply ***** their options.
D3 has an infinite on Samus, enough said.
Marth has an infinite on Lucas, enough said.
Fox gets 0-100 CGed by Pika into bad positioning.
Olimar has a worst MU against ROB than MK.
R.O.B gets infinited by ZSS.
Aside from MK, Marth arguably has no bad matchups.

As for Toon Link and Peach, every character has their worst match ups somewhere. Personally I think they both get ***** by Falco (reflector for TL's projectiles and lasers for Peach's aerial approaches,) but I can't use personal opinion in something like this.

 

[adumbrodeus]

D3 has an infinite on Samus, enough said.

No, Samus can break out on the pummel until ridiculous percents.

Marth has an infinite on Lucas, enough said.

Didn't lucas/ness mains figure out a way to get extra distance so he's outside of Marth's grab range?

 

[thumbswayup]

Nic64 gets less intelligent with every post he makes.

 

[Nic64]

Nic64 gets less intelligent with every post he makes.

you're stealing my bit(ad hominem one liners) =/

 

[Curaga]

Fox can't do anything against tornado. He loses.

It's really so easy to pick up Meta Knight and start ****** tournaments. Plenty of players do it. lol

I have a gun, Dair. and Nair. I can also "shield the entire thing" and punish/retreat.
(Oh.. Ftilt, Bair, and all that.)

And Thrilla is right about helicopter kick. Its always hard below the stage, but its possible at the very least.

 

[Thinkaman]

No, Samus can break out on the pummel until ridiculous percents.

DDD still does a TON of damage with it though, since he doesn't have to pummel until the Nth cg. But yes, incredibly grab break skills go a long way.

Didn't lucas/ness mains figure out a way to get extra distance so he's outside of Marth's grab range?

*nods*

*someone starts to disagree*

(*Shhhhhh!*)

 

[Tommy_G]

No, Samus can break out on the pummel until ridiculous percents.



Didn't lucas/ness mains figure out a way to get extra distance so he's outside of Marth's grab range?

Even so, Falco's laser spam, D3's overall match up, and(for some weird reason) olimar's match up makes her unviable for tournament play.

I don't believe so, I still see Ness and Lucas mains get CGed by Marth. I think it's only if Marth messes up, they can get out. Besides, Lucas has a worse match up vs GaW than MK.

-_- don't predict me before I even post what I was saying... :-P

 

[thumbswayup]

you're stealing my bit(ad hominem one liners) =/

It's what I do when I want to troll

 

[Nic64]

I can also "shield the entire thing" and punish

i shouldnt have to shield an attack when i want to punish it, wow, thats bull crap. brokeen

 

[Falconv1.0]

Says the Meta Knight main.

I agree with Picard here. And I'm not a MK main.

Meta Knight is broken. Can we all agree to that at least?

Nope.

 

[Tommy_G]

i shouldnt have to shield an attack when i want to punish it, wow, thats bull crap. brokeen

What if you can shield, and then punish? ZOMG too good brokenz !!111!!1oenone im going to work on finding a wai 2 do this.

 

[adumbrodeus]

DDD still does a TON of damage with it though, since he doesn't have to pummel until the Nth cg. But yes, incredibly grab break skills go a long way.

5, it's a good amount of damage, but it dimishes, it's a pretty good punishment, but it's nowhere near as effective as a 0-death.


So, take note mario, samus, and luigi mains, crazy grab break skills are one of your most essential skills, so practice, A LOT.

Even so, Falco's laser spam, D3's overall match up, and(for some weird reason) olimar's match up makes her unviable for tournament play.

Just correct a common misconception.

I don't believe so, I still see Ness and Lucas mains get CGed by Marth. I think it's only if Marth messes up, they can get out. Besides, Lucas has a worse match up vs GaW than MK.

I remember rather explicitly that ness and lucas mains figured out some extremely technical way of getting extra distance on their grab break which they refered to as "extra-inch DI"

 

[iRJi]

Lol this topic is going no where. Honestly debating about what MIGHT happen is going to go no where without actually doing it. This kind of reminds me when Garchomp was in the debate of getting banned in Pokemon. Not completely broken, but a character that was just better then the rest, even with counters. The solution for that was they took him out for a little bit and tested to see what would happen to the meta game with him out of the picture. Was not permanent until proper testing was done, and that's what I'm suggesting. Ban him for a month, even 2 weeks seems proper, and decide off the results of that. Talking about MK being gone and what might occur is only theories that will most likely not be proven to be true because no one is stepping up to get past the talking stage, and heading for the testing stage of the process. That is honestly the only way to know for sure how the game will be with him being banned or not, And I don't think the MK mains will cry about losing their main for 2 weeks.

 

[brinboy789]

whining about dair

yea? one extremely good move makes him bannable? why not snake? his utilt kills at RIDICULOUS percentages and has AMAZING priority and speed. it kills on average at around 100, and combined with nades and ftilt, its not that hard to get that high. ban? besides, there are certain ways to get around dair. most of those chars taht you listed have crap recoveries anyways.

stop whining

 

[Tarmogoyf]

I remember rather explicitly that ness and lucas mains figured out some extremely technical way of getting extra distance on their grab break which they refered to as "extra-inch DI"

I've also heard from ness and lucas mains that it is BS, and doesn't work. EIDI isn't real as far as I've seen in actual games.

Also, P.O.F., please edit your sig. It stretches the page.

 

[Nic64]

Lol this topic is going no where.

It's still kind of worthwhile as entertainment if you just make sarcastic posts towards obvious joke alts for no real reason <_<

Honestly debating about what MIGHT happen is going to go no where without actually doing it. This kind of reminds me when Garchomp was in the debate of getting banned in Pokemon. Not completely broken, but a character that was just better then the rest, even with counters. The solution for that was they took him out for a little bit and tested to see what would happen to the meta game with him out of the picture. Was not permanent until proper testing was done, and that's what I'm suggesting. Ban him for a month, even 2 weeks seems proper, and decide off the results of that. Talking about MK being gone and what might occur is only theories that will most likely not be proven to be true because no one is stepping up to get past the talking stage, and heading for the testing stage of the process. That is honestly the only way to know for sure how the game will be with him being banned or not, And I don't think the MK mains will cry about losing their main for 2 weeks.

I don't think a temp ban would accomplish much or is at all necessary, BUT, if it were to occur, I don't think 2 weeks, or even a month, really gives you an accurate picture. I think it would have to be for at least 2 months</arbitrary opinion>.

 

[salaboB]

I remember rather explicitly that ness and lucas mains figured out some extremely technical way of getting extra distance on their grab break which they refered to as "extra-inch DI"

They did, but I don't believe knowledge of how to do it reliably became widespread. It may have just been a pseudo technique that didn't actually work in practice and someone was screwing up during testing to allow it. Also there was talk of that retreating pivot grab allowing Marth to regain the infinite against them -- I have no idea whether that's the case or not, I haven't been following the thread on it too closely.

 

[Thinkaman]

"EIDI" was a totally false concept. Sorry guys, end of story.

 

[thrillagorilla]

If you don't believe EIDI is false for whatever reason, read the last few pages here for the truth on the matter.

 

[adumbrodeus]

"EIDI" was a totally false concept. Sorry guys, end of story.

If you don't believe EIDI is false for whatever reason, read the last few pages here for the truth on the matter.

...

Sweet...

respectForNessCommunity--;

 

[|RK|]

Why? Can someone please tell me why, after I had posted the definition of broken within a gaming community 2-3 times, that people are still saying MK is broken? Why?

Oh, and Prince of Fire? You aren't helping yourself. Your arguments suck. Terribly. It's a shame that the only good arguments have been anti-ban vs anti-ban.

And Botnik? Your posts are interesting because they seem really sophisticated, but if you get past the lingo, you're only repeating the same crap, and not even with new evidence.