Tarmogoyf
Smash Master
If it's such a high level mistake, how come M2K/Dojo made it moderatley often? It's not that hard to get in an 8 frame move at close range if you just ran up and powershielded their move and the opponent made a minor spacing error, espically considering that SoPo has a Dthrow GC if nana isn't colse enough (it allows her to close the gap). And if you get predicted?Stuff, yes mistakes happen, I wrote the (much-ignored) mechanism for accounting for how much human error should be accounted for in match-up discussions and to what degree. The thing is, the level of errors you're suggesting (namely ICs getting a grab) are high level mistakes. I mean, how often do you suppose that a player will get mindgamed into a warlock punch? Because in the marth match-up, that's not much larger of a mistake in terms of spacing.
That's the thing, without people actually referencing to any sort of mechanism for dealing with human mistakes, "ics getting a grab while in a position to execute CG" is not much more different then "Ike getting an f-smash", which is not much different from "MK not spacing properly to avoid getting blown up by a snake grenade when he dtilts".
They're obviously different standards, but without any way to judge why they're different, we're left to conclude with either "everything happens" (aka: I'll constantly mindgame people into warlock punches) or mindgames don't matter (aka: MK is gonna constantly outspace Marth's dtilt with his dtilt, even though the difference is about a pixel).
And please don't tell me that an 8-10 (standing/dash) frame move is as telegraphed as an Ike Fsmash/Warlock punch. ICs are an agressive character with poor airspeed, they run at you a fair enough amount of the time. Thats just bad arguing. There is an easy to detrimine that they are diffirent:You see good ICs get grabs at high level play moderatley often. Not OMG every stock is a grab death, but it happens, and ICs can win off a free stock against most characters.
You also didn't factor in prediction. If you predict a move , you can just run up and powershield, then shieldgrab. Techchase? Grab. Badly DIed blizzard? Grab. Badly Died Utilt? Grab. Spacing error? Grab. They have numerous ways to get a grab that don't require the majyor error you seem to assume. The errors are only moderate. If they were so majyor, M2K Dojo, Anther ect wouldn't be making them at all (at all meaning like the same level as an Ike Fsmash, which you never see at a high level.)