Should King Dedede's infinite chaingrab be banned?

[ADHD]

DDD's CG is NOT the same as ICs. Name all the characters that could POTENTIALLY be brought down a tier SOLEY DUE TO THE IC's EXISTANCE.

Dedede does not put characters down in tiers, you main whats called a SECONDARY (gasp.) Ice climbers shut down matchups JUST LIKE dedede, it's no different. Lets see, IC's ****: Dedede, ganon, DK, bowser, captain falcon, sheik, and some more. Be quiet noob, luigi, mario, samus, dk, and bowser mostly all suck (except for DK). They'd be low tier anyway, you fail.

 

[XienZo]

I don't get what the big deal is.

5 characters? As opposed to 25 to 13 out of 38?

Honestly, why do you think the walk-off stages were banned in the first place? Because it positively effected a large number of the cast.

Having 25 of the roster immediately stricken from the list of playable characters simply they can be infinited into the wall is a lot much worse than 5.

So again: why not just ban the move altogether? Obviously the SBR is not just a group of monkeys who sit around and make ridiculous tournament policies.

So you're saying that they aren't a big part of the community so we should let them rot, just cause we feel like it?

Having 5 of the roster immediately stricken from the list of playable characters simply they can be infinited into the wall is a lot much worse than none.

Dedede does not put characters down in tiers, you main whats called a SECONDARY (gasp.) Ice climbers shut down matchups JUST LIKE dedede, it's no different. Lets see, IC's ****: Dedede, ganon, DK, bowser, captain falcon, sheik, and some more. Be quiet noob, luigi, mario, samus, dk, and bowser mostly all suck (except for DK). They'd be low tier anyway, you fail.

If you have to main your secondary, then chances are, your main is unviable...

DDD, Ganon, DK, Bowser, CF, and Shiek can still win against ICs. They'll win at least 15% more matchs than the 5 will. They are NOT unviable. Furthermore, IC's CGs aren't effecient to learn by your average brawler, while DDD's infinites are. ICs aren't used by everyone, so you can use DDD, Ganon, DK, bowser, CF, Sheik and others on OTHER BATTLES. However, it is HIGHLY effecient for your average brawler to learn DDD's infinites, so before you know it, everyone would have spent a few hours to ALWAYS CP the five, so they can NEVER be used.

 

[bobson]

So again: why not just ban the move altogether? Obviously the SBR is not just a group of monkeys who sit around and make ridiculous tournament policies.

That's, you know, what we're trying to get accomplished here.

 

[Remzi]

i got caught in it once

Tell us about it in detail.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Dedede does not put characters down in tiers, you main whats called a SECONDARY (gasp.) Ice climbers shut down matchups JUST LIKE dedede, it's no different. Lets see, IC's ****: Dedede, ganon, DK, bowser, captain falcon, sheik, and some more. Be quiet noob, luigi, mario, samus, dk, and bowser mostly all suck (except for DK). They'd be low tier anyway, you fail.

You fail for not providing a better reason to not ban it than the ability to select a secondary.

 

[RDK]

Yeah the real question here is Should Donkey Kong, Mario, Samus, Luigi and Bowser be removed from Super Smash Bros. Brawl?

RDK and others say Yes.

Against D3? Sure.

Just like you should throw the match out the window whenever you pick Captain Falcon against anyone. OMG, we should ban anyone who ***** the **** out of Captain Falcon.

Seriously, it's called a ****ing counterpick. Jesus Christ.

All those characters will NOT be removed if the infinite is allowed. They will just be removed as possible mains, and stuck with "Counterpick Character" status. We as a community should be deciding if this is what we want, what the game should be.

This is honestly all I was trying to say.

 

[Remzi]

ChromePirate: **** =/= shut down.

 

[ADHD]

Hey lets think about this as well. Hmm, notice something that EVEN IF THE INFINITE WERE BANNED, dedede would still annihilate mario, samus, luigi, dk, and bowser? CG to gimp people, it happens. Luigi can't be chaingrabbed, but he will get grabbed--alot. The infinite wont matter, it won't make a difference, any dedede who is skilled will **** a mario regardless of his skill level or if his tag is Boss. Banning the infinite won't make a difference, this is brawl, stop whinning you should have a secondary or just not compete and find another game that suits you.

 

[-Wolfy-]

Yeah the real question here is Should Donkey Kong, Mario, Samus, Luigi and Bowser be removed from Super Smash Bros. Brawl?

RDK and others say Yes.

well it's more like they have a bum matchup than anything, they aren't removed completely from legitimacy, just from those 6 matchups. I know people will hate me for that but it is a game of counterpicking and adapting. Go falco or mk if it is such a serious problem. That is as easily done as someone that isn't a dedede main using dedede to counter your main.

 

[BentoBox]

Don't you get that its the same problem that is plaguing those 25 characters, and that we arbitrarily chose to find a solution for 20 of them? That is not logical. That is why we argue. For logic's sake.

We've been through this before, Yuna. You don't seem to realize that we've saved a part of the cast from eating dirt, because WE wanted to. If it wasn't for a set of modifications and regulations we CREATED and enforced, D3 would most likely be reigning supreme right now. But WE chose not to let that happen. I say that WE SHOULD NOT have other characters eat crap because they're not a majority this time around. I mean no **** its not a majority, we already made sure a part of the cast was viable, why not finish the job? This isn't like your Honda vs. Ken matchup where the former simply has to deal with it. Our own actions have led to the shaping up of a metagame unlike any other. WE still hold the key to powers allowing US to shape it however we want. DK doesn't do horribad against D3 only because "its part of the game". DK does bad against D3 BECAUSE WE CHOSE NOT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

I don't know how it could be any clearer.

It's like you're the president and want to address racial discrimination. You provide integration solutions for the chinese people, and suddenly, because the hispanics are not a majority (because you fail to consider them under the group of visible minority, but rather just hispanics) you tell them to suck it up. That's not how it works and I beg of you to stop arguing.

 

[CO18]

I don't get what the big deal is.

5 characters? As opposed to 25 to 13 out of 38?

Honestly, why do you think the walk-off stages were banned in the first place? Because it positively effected a large number of the cast.

Having 25 of the roster immediately stricken from the list of playable characters simply they can be infinited into the wall is a lot much worse than 5.

So again: why not just ban the move altogether? Obviously the SBR is not just a group of monkeys who sit around and make ridiculous tournament policies.

You fail. Thank you, you can now leave the conversation for confirming that you think the number of characters it effects matter and that you should be able to pick and choose when enough is enough.

And wth do you think we're trying to do?

Omfg we are trying to ban the move altogether lmfao

 

[bobson]

Hey lets think about this as well. Hmm, notice something that EVEN IF THE INFINITE WERE BANNED, dedede would still annihilate mario, samus, luigi, dk, and bowser? CG to gimp people, it happens. Luigi can't be chaingrabbed, but he will get grabbed--alot. The infinite wont matter, it won't make a difference, any dedede who is skilled will **** a mario regardless of his skill level or if his tag is Boss. Banning the infinite won't make a difference, this is brawl, stop whinning you should have a secondary or just not compete and find another game that suits you.

Completely wrong.

 

[Luigi player]

Against D3? Sure.

Just like you should throw the match out the window whenever you pick Captain Falcon against anyone. OMG, we should ban anyone who ***** the **** out of Captain Falcon.

Seriously, it's called a ****ing counterpick. Jesus Christ.

Captain Falcon has a better chance at beating ANYONE than any of the infinited characters against D3.

 

[CO18]

Hey lets think about this as well. Hmm, notice something that EVEN IF THE INFINITE WERE BANNED, dedede would still annihilate mario, samus, luigi, dk, and bowser? CG to gimp people, it happens. Luigi can't be chaingrabbed, but he will get grabbed--alot. The infinite wont matter, it won't make a difference, any dedede who is skilled will **** a mario regardless of his skill level or if his tag is Boss. Banning the infinite won't make a difference, this is brawl, stop whinning you should have a secondary or just not compete and find another game that suits you.

NONE of those matchups would be worse than 60:40 except possibly mario.

stick to diddys matchups son

 

[XienZo]

Hey lets think about this as well. Hmm, notice something that EVEN IF THE INFINITE WERE BANNED, dedede would still annihilate mario, samus, luigi, dk, and bowser? CG to gimp people, it happens. Luigi can't be chaingrabbed, but he will get grabbed--alot. The infinite wont matter, it won't make a difference, any dedede who is skilled will **** a mario regardless of his skill level or if his tag is Boss. Banning the infinite won't make a difference, this is brawl, stop whinning you should have a secondary or just not compete and find another game that suits you.

Thats not the only thing that matters. Without the CG, your average Jigglypuff mainer will have to spend MUCH longer to learn to use DDD, and likely will not, so the # of DDD players will dwindle to tolerable levels.

The problem is the DDD secondaries and tertiaries, not the DDD mainers.

 

[Remzi]

Hey lets think about this as well. Hmm, notice something that EVEN IF THE INFINITE WERE BANNED, dedede would still annihilate mario, samus, luigi, dk, and bowser? CG to gimp people, it happens. Luigi can't be chaingrabbed, but he will get grabbed--alot. The infinite wont matter, it won't make a difference, any dedede who is skilled will **** a mario regardless of his skill level or if his tag is Boss. Banning the infinite won't make a difference, this is brawl, stop whinning you should have a secondary or just not compete and find another game that suits you.

Chain grab to gimp =/= guaranteed death. The person getting chain grabbed can actually.... *gasp* move!

I can't believe you actually tried to make that point >_>

 

[Surri-Sama]

I don't get what the big deal is.

5 characters? As opposed to 25 to 13 out of 38?

Honestly, why do you think the walk-off stages were banned in the first place? Because it positively effected a large number of the cast.

Having 25 of the roster immediately stricken from the list of playable characters simply they can be infinited into the wall is a lot much worse than 5.

So again: why not just ban the move altogether? Obviously the SBR is not just a group of monkeys who sit around and make ridiculous tournament policies.

You should learn young man, you cannot argue with a fool....and when you do, you slowly become a fool!

 

[CO18]

well it's more like they have a bum matchup than anything, they aren't removed completely from legitimacy, just from those 6 matchups. I know people will hate me for that but it is a game of counterpicking and adapting. Go falco or mk if it is such a serious problem. That is as easily done as someone that isn't a dedede main using dedede to counter your main.

The point is the counterpicking argument is not legit. Such as the reason why stages were banned because of Dedede's walk-offs and wall infinites such as Bridge of Eldin, Green Greens and Shadow Moses.

Essentially you are saying if Dedede did this to EVERY character EXCEPT one we could always counterpick that one character therefore it should not be banned.

Who would play the game then? I sure as hell know I won't.

So we should all quit the game because we are powerless to a button on a gamecube controller is what the counterpick argument essentially says.

 

[RDK]

You fail. Thank you, you can now leave the conversation for confirming that you think the number of characters it effects matter and that you should be able to pick and choose when enough is enough.

And wth do you think we're trying to do?

Omfg we are trying to ban the move altogether lmfao

You yell at me for defining a line, and yet you make a line yourself in literally every post you make. Where's the logic in that?

By me using the majority of the cast a stopping point, it's the same as saying "none" (or "all", in your case).

And WTF are you talking about? Of course the amount of characters it effects matters, or else we wouldn't even be having this discussion. God you're dense.

 

[XienZo]

You yell at me for defining a line, and yet you make a line yourself in literally every post you make. Where's the logic in that?

By me using the majority of the cast a stopping point, it's the same as saying "none" (or "all", in your case).

And WTF are you talking about? Of course the amount of characters it effects matters, or else we wouldn't even be having this discussion. God you're dense.

The number of characters it affect doesn't actually mater. Saving 1 character is better than none.

 

[pure_awesome]

Essentially you are saying if Dedede did this to EVERY character EXCEPT one we could always counterpick that one character therefore it should not be banned.

That would over-centralize the game. You would either play DDD, or play the character that beats him. It would be banned.

The standing infinite doesn't over-centralize the game as a whole.

 

[RDK]

The number of characters it affect doesn't actually mater. Saving 1 character is better than none.

1 is just as much a number as 5 and 26. Your argument is skewed.

 

[BibulousDan]

Gah does his CG really need to be banned? its only 6 characters we can deal.

 

[CO18]

You yell at me for defining a line, and yet you make a line yourself in literally every post you make. Where's the logic in that?

By me using the majority of the cast a stopping point, it's the same as saying "none" (or "all", in your case).

And WTF are you talking about? Of course the amount of characters it effects matters, or else we wouldn't even be having this discussion. God you're dense.

So you're line is the majority of the cast. The point is You are picking and choosing when enough is enough.

The amount of characters it effects shouldn't matter unless it was EVERY single character because even if it effects the majority of the cast you can always counterpick therefore you contradict yourself by saying the line is the majority of the cast.

 

[aeghrur]

Hm, I'm beginning to think some Melee mains were right.
Brawl community is too ban happy.
I say, play the match up, learn to space, get better.[/inui]

Spoiler

c wut i did thar? lol, jk inui, jk. xD

 

[da K.I.D.]

Dedede does not put characters down in tiers, you main whats called a SECONDARY (gasp.) Ice climbers shut down matchups JUST LIKE dedede, it's no different. Lets see, IC's ****: Dedede, ganon, DK, bowser, captain falcon, sheik, and some more. Be quiet noob, luigi, mario, samus, dk, and bowser mostly all suck (except for DK). They'd be low tier anyway, you fail.

LMAO @ luigi being low tier.
ROFL @ bowser being low tier

Captain Falcon has a better chance at beating ANYONE than any of the infinited characters against D3.

this right here...

p.s. i second D3 and i think this should be banned in some way.

 

[BentoBox]

1 is just as much a number as 5 and 26. Your argument is skewed.

No. You're the one involving numbers. We say you apply a solution for all of them or none of them. No lines involved.

Don't you get that its the same problem that is plaguing those 25 characters, and that we arbitrarily chose to find a solution for 20 of them? That is not logical. That is why we argue. For logic's sake.

We've been through this before, Yuna. You don't seem to realize that we've saved a part of the cast from eating dirt, because WE wanted to. If it wasn't for a set of modifications and regulations we CREATED and enforced, D3 would most likely be reigning supreme right now. But WE chose not to let that happen. I say that WE SHOULD NOT have other characters eat crap because they're not a majority this time around. I mean no **** its not a majority, we already made sure a part of the cast was viable, why not finish the job? This isn't like your Honda vs. Ken matchup where the former simply has to deal with it. Our own actions have led to the shaping up of a metagame unlike any other. WE still hold the key to powers allowing US to shape it however we want. DK doesn't do horribad against D3 only because "its part of the game". DK does bad against D3 BECAUSE WE CHOSE NOT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

I don't know how it could be any clearer.

It's like you're the president and want to address racial discrimination. You provide integration solutions for the chinese people, and suddenly, because the hispanics are not a majority (because you fail to consider them under the group of visible minority, but rather just hispanics) you tell them to suck it up. That's not how it works and I beg of you to stop arguing.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Hm, I'm beginning to think some Melee mains were right.
Brawl community is too ban happy.
I say, play the match up, learn to space, get better.[/inui]

Spoiler

c wut i did thar? lol, jk inui, jk. xD

HEY!

I said that too...im a smash64 main D:

y r wii forgotten!

 

[pure_awesome]

Hm, I'm beginning to think some Melee mains were right.
Brawl community is too ban happy.
I say, play the match up, learn to space, get better.[/inui]

Spoiler

c wut i did thar? lol, jk inui, jk. xD

Which is why noone listens to you.

 

[aeghrur]

So you're line is the majority of the cast. The point is You are picking and choosing when enough is enough.

The amount of characters it effects shouldn't matter unless it was EVERY single character because even if it effects the majority of the cast you can always counterpick therefore you contradict yourself by saying the line is the majority of the cast.

Ugh, IC infinite affects THE MAJORITY OF THE CAST.
It has an EFFECT ON THE MAJORITY OF THE CAST.
IDC if you say it doesn't make or break a match up.
IT HAS AN EFFECT ON ALL OF THE CAST.

 

[ADHD]

LMAO @ luigi being low tier.
ROFL @ bowser being low tier.

Oh well, I'll consider them low tier because I see as much luigis/bowsers as I do marios or samuses... (what's the plural of samus)

 

[CO18]

That would over-centralize the game. You would either play DDD, or play the character that beats him. It would be banned.

The standing infinite doesn't over-centralize the game as a whole.

Who decides when it over-centralizes the game? Im saying you can't pick and choose.

IMO his infinite on 5 characters over-centralizes the game.

You shouldnt be able to decide when too many characters is too much because its subjective and dumb.

Stick to one argument if you feel as long as you can counterpick than that should be the same whether or not you can only do this to 5 characters or 33.

 

[popsofctown]

Bento makes a good point. If we banned wall stages to save all of the cast minus 2 (ICs and D3 himself), then we've demonstrated that we will protect characters in order to maintain character variety. Before, it was the difference between 2 characters and 37. This time, the difference is between 32 and 37, but it's still the same principle. Right?


And ChromePirate, my Luigi has done really well against D3's who didn't know about the chaingrab. I don't claim to know the golden holy correct ratio of the matchup any more than you should claim to, but it's neutral for Luigi at his worst.

 

[pure_awesome]

RDK, do you mind if I rebut the whole "5 is not 26" argument, for you?

Kind of unorthodox, but it's bugging me.

 

[aeghrur]

HEY!

I said that too...im a smash64 main D:

y r wii forgotten!

I'm sorry. Forgive me. T_T

Which is why noone listens to you.

Lern2humor
Lern2spoiler
Lern2spacebar

 

[cutter]

I'd like to see Sheik be banned in Melee so we can save characters there too

Spoiler

lol

 

[bobson]

Oh well, I'll consider them low tier because I see as much luigis/bowsers as I do marios or samuses... (what's the plural of samus)

Gee, I wonder why that would be.

 

[CO18]

Oh well, I'll consider them low tier because I see as much luigis/bowsers as I do marios or samuses... (what's the plural of samus)

Hmm I wonder if that could be due to the fact people are turned off because Dedede can infinite those characters.

I wonder.

 

[BentoBox]

Ugh, IC infinite affects THE MAJORITY OF THE CAST.
It has an EFFECT ON THE MAJORITY OF THE CAST.
IDC if you say it doesn't make or break a match up.
IT HAS AN EFFECT ON ALL OF THE CAST.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT ICs INFINITE. READ THE TITLE. Sigh.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Oh well, I'll consider them low tier because I see as much luigis/bowsers as I do marios or samuses... (what's the plural of samus)

Samai!

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