@Titanium Dragon: I already told you to shut up about "scrubs." It's not a defense.
I refer you to counterpoint A:
This is a debate on whether or not it IS TRULY FAIR.
A NEW RECORD! One sentence later and you assert that you are a scrub.
The issue is that it isn't a defense. The problem is that you don't actually understand a thing you're talking about.
Its not invalid to say someone doesn't know what they're talking about when they don't. You don't have a worthwhile opinion precisely because you're a scrub, and precisely because you DON'T understand Sirlin. Indeed, you've repeatedly been offered the chance to read Sirlin's articles about this stuff, and while Sirlin is not god, he's one of if not the most important commentators on competitive fighter game play (and plausibly competitive gameplay in general). If you haven't read his writings, then you're so far behind the rest of us it is unlikely you'll even be able to understand what we're saying.
And you've proven that, in fact, you don't understand what we're talking about.
Being a scrub and commenting on competitive gameplay rules is like someone who doesn't know what an electron is commenting on chemistry, or someone who doesn't understand calculus talking about integration. Its the same sort of thing; you lack the expertise necessary to have valuable input.
You're saying stuff which is completely unrelated to the topic at hand and acting as though it matters, when everyone knows it doesn't.
Your entire post reeks with hypocrisy, and I'm just going to stop bothering to respond to anything you have to say at this point, unless you finally say something that can actually be used as a point.
As you proceed to post a paragraph which has absolutely no content whatsoever?
Ah, irony.
While I didn't read the entire thread (350 pages by the time I posted in it), I read the posts since then, and every post had simply said that the infinite didn't matter on Mario/etc. I assumed this meant people were ignoring them. Quite possibly it IS what they meant.
These points were brought up 340 pages ago. Had you actually read the thread, you'd know this. Why do you think we're so exasperated by your posts?
People ARE ignoring them because -they don't matter-, and EVERYONE who has even a remotely valuable opinion knew that already.
The matchup goes something like D3 camps DK and forces him to approach with Waddle Dees. Then, having great grab range, finds a way to grab DK and it (the match) is essentially all over from their.
Yeah, I know. Its not like DK is likely to win or anthing; the contorted gameplay he has to adopt isn't likely to win him the match anyway (though probably liklier than if you don't try extremely hard to avoid the grab) - a similar situation exists with other characters at various times as well (vs Fox, for instance, you have to start not doing certain things once you hit the point at which Fox can upsmash you to death, which gives Fox an advantage, even if he's less likely to kill you outright). And its not like it always works anyway - sometimes DeDeDe grabs you, sometimes Fox upsmashes you at 100% and you're dead. That's just the way things go; you aren't perfect. But you do have a chance of avoiding it, however slim, even if the matchup is ridiculously unfavorable.
But the reality is that it doesn't really matter if the matchup is 5-95 or 0-100 among highly skilled players, because even 5-95 is an "unwinnable" matchup. But its okay for characters to have such matchups, from the competitive player standpoint. The issue is when there are too many such matchups in a game, the game starts to break down.
However, there aren't that many. As has been pointed out, this makes up an absolutely tiny percentage of matchups in the game.
There is very clearly a difference in the theory and the practice. If you have played much DK in tourney's its pretty clear. And as for the "they can't always counterpick", they don't have to always be able to. You win the first match, they counter DDD and win, then its your counterpick against their DDD, and if you stay DK you lose again. DK can of course still exist in the metagame with a strong secondary, but in theory DK cannot exist competitively as a solo character. Of course the same could be said for many other characters in the game.
The correct thing to do, in a meta wherein people play DeDeDe well enough to counter DK, but not well enough to really play him, is thus:
Match 1: Use a random method to choose between DK, your anti-DeDeDe character, and some third, other character with different strengths and weaknesses from those two. This prevents people from using scouting to pick DeDeDe against you blind and win, as oftentimes they'll actually lose by picking DeDeDe, not being that good with him (but good enough to trash DK), then losing to your anti-DeDeDe or your other character.
Match 2: If you won, then you don't pick DK; you pick your third character. They pick someone. You fight.
If you lost, then you get to CP. If they pick DeDeDe, play your anti-DeDeDe. If they don't pick DeDeDe, play DK. And if they pick DeDeDe but aren't comfortable with them, you crush them.
Match 3: As per match 2.
So thus, even in theory, there is nothing unviable about DK, unlike what people claimed. Indeed, the above could be a highly effective strategy and make it very difficult for people to deal with you properly.
Also, if you yomi well, the blind pick goes even better for you.
Remember, give a quick fact for each of these arguments. For instance, people may read your post, but ignore it because you didn't back up your statements. Sorry for critiquing debate skills, but something should be done properly in the more hotly debated threads.
Sorry to critique your thinking skills, they've already been covered.
If you want to have a real argument, you're going to have to listen to what other people have to say, something which is clearly beyond you.
11. The infinite takes the fun out of playing (competitive play is not neccesarily fun nor should something be fun in order to stay in the game. Fun is not the ultimate desired result of tournaments.)
This is actually untrue. Fun IS the purpose of tournaments, but its not really the same sort of fun that scrubs have. It is, in many ways, a better, deeper sort of fun which is very fulfilling, but it doesn't feel the same.
