Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

[NO-IDea]

Dark suit Samus = Best Samus.

 

[Xyro77]

From my exp....black and blue are the most used. Green and pink are the leasted used from my exp.

 

[lllp3lll]

Hi. Im planning on pickin up samus as a secondary and have a few questions. I've heard having tap jump on is prefered for samus (she gets invincibility frames on grounded up+B?) are they any other perks over tap jump off? I'm not sure, she feels less floaty to me with it off.

Also what would be the most important aspect for me the to start learning: using bombs, missle cancling, jab locks, ____blank?

Are they any distinct ways to effectively play samus? / Could you describe your style within a sentence?

I've got z-air spacing down (feels like sideB) And don't understand why upsmash is rated as a bad move isn't it the same as Bair risk/reward?

Sorry for so many questions

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I always use tap jump for my jumps anyways .

Learn everything.

Xyro's Style: Hang on the edge and annoy your opponents to death.

Usmash isn't going ot get you much. You'll RARELY connect with all of the hits and it has like no knockback. Bair is fast and gets you kills.

Don't worry about asking too many questions; that's what this thread is for xD.

 

[RaigothDagon]

I take tap jump off, but I assign my Y button as a special, that way I can still OoS UpB. But whichever you are most comfortable with is fine, especially if tap jump doesn't bother you any.

Most important thing you need to learn using correctly is zair. Pretty much her whole game is reliant on whether or not you use this. I know because I used to go all missles. Missle canceling is still important, just not as pivotal as zair. Bombs are a no. Although they are fun to implement in your game, they aren't very practical and there are usually better things to be doing than that, as Xyro would tell you.

As of recently, there is at least one distinct way of playing Samus, although I doubt you'd like that one even though it involves winning. That of course is planking. Other ways to play involve using most aerials to chain into other aerials, like uair -> zair, or stuff like that. Or there is camping by projectile spam, usually what happens when you are in a matchup that you'd want to avoid closing distance on the opponent.

Usmash is rated poorly because it is easy for competent players to SDI out of. A player may sidestep it and avoid it entirely, or shield the first hit or so of it and counterattack while you suffer from massive lag. Against small characters on the ground, most of the time you will not hit them. Sometimes you will hit an opponent, only to deal 5% damage and get counterattacked. The reason bair is more liked is because bair is arguably the best kill move that Samus has, but the hardest to land. Because all of Samus' aerials have zero lag upon landing, bair would not have the same risk as that of usmash.

 

[lllp3lll]

Thanks for both your answers, I'll start checking out some videos

 

[Mr9]

i play a strange samus i grab to much apparently and i approach head on a few people that i hav eplayed tell me im to aggressive of a samus most are campier.

 

[lllp3lll]

i play a strange samus i grab to much apparently and i approach head on a few people that i hav eplayed tell me im to aggressive of a samus most are campier.

I was told the same thing, attemping to play samus the same as zss

How is samus grab game? homing missle into grab, zair into grab, charge shot/bombs into grab(?). These all seem like good set-ups, Whats her best throw and best following ups?

 

[NO-IDea]

Welcome to the Samus boards for starters. I'm a nub who doesn't follow convention because I'm too stubborn to.

First off, I don't like your question. I didn't say I don't like you, I just said I don't like your question. This is because it has the word "best" in it. This may not apply to ZSS, but for Samus the majority of her moves are situational at "best."

So to answer your question, it will depend on the MU and your location. Such a broad answer to such a specific question, no? For example, take Wolf v Samus on FD. If you're close to the sides, throw him off, no matter what percentage. Because his ledge game is predictable and easy to follow-up on. At low percentages, throw a z-air to try and break his double jump, otherwise, let him grab the ledge. Then just read what he does from a charge shot position (get up attack? normal get-up? side+b? Jump?) Charging shot has answers to everything Wolf does from the ledge.

Another example, MK v Samus on BF. Up+throw and charge your shot, no matter what percent. Platforms will protect you, you may even break out an OoS u-air/up+b if he's too predictable and tries to retaliate. Because in this MU, you always want a tool against his tornado. However, if this was MK v Samus on SV, I'd be telling you to do d-throw at low percents and follow-up with aerials and f-throw/b-throw him at mid-high percents, keeping him on stage, and following-up with missiles and try to land another grab. Anything to scare him into staying airborne, because MK's aerial mobility is ****.

If you haven't gotten the lesson yet, it's the fact that there's a different answer to everything. You should let go of the notion of best throw and best follow-up. Technically, you can pull off anything if you've mind ***** your opponent enough.

 

[DelxDoom]

Broiler is the best move in the game

 

[Mr9]

leave it to no-idea to give it up straight.

 

[Icyo]

What is happening when I zair late in a short hop and buffer into a double jump? It looks like im hitting the ground.

 

[KillerJawz]

I was told the same thing, attemping to play samus the same as zss

How is samus grab game? homing missle into grab, zair into grab, charge shot/bombs into grab(?). These all seem like good set-ups, Whats her best throw and best following ups?

Firstly, HAI P3 :3.

Secondly, her grab game, as NO-IDea said, is situational, yes we can link it up with missles and zair (lolxyrocombo) but she has no "Best" throw, because three of her throws chain with other moves extremely well, so it's basically impossible to say which is our best, same with her follow ups, like NO-IDea said, there is no best.

When Pound4 has ended, and at the next london monthly, im sure me and NO-IDea can shed some more light on follow ups, because this is actually something we rarely discuss.

 

[lllp3lll]

Thanks NO-IDea and KillerJawz for bringing it down to earth for me.

 

[Mr9]

hey guys i beat jaremaiahcross' sheik does that make me good yet?

 

[Xyro77]

if its online, no. if its offline, i guess.

 

[Mr9]

haha well it was offline, im satisfied with i guess at the moment.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

How punishable is Samus's Fair. It seems to me that if someone doesn't FF Fair after using it, the opponent can easily DI up and counter with an aerial. But, is it punishable if Fair is FF?

 

[Mr9]

very punishable, but it has decent priority, and multiple good sized hit boxes, they can behind you, thats all i can think of wait till No-IDea get here he'll dish out all the nitty gritty.

 

[RaigothDagon]

Fair is probably punishable if you try to combo with it, such as getting all the hits of it in at a low percentage. In that case I believe the opponent may SDI to get out of it and counter with their own aerial. Hitstun might be too great for them to counter, I don't know. But retreating with a fair or creating a wall, that is probably the best way to use it, because then they can't possibly get behind you, and if you space properly most of the cast can not punish you for landing.

 

[Cherry64]

if a character the size or ness or smaller doens't move and you FF a Fair you won't hit him with the last hit. so it's more punishable when you FF it in certain cases.

 

[KillerJawz]

Against Bowser and others with large shields its VERY punishable if its all shielded. Bowser can UpB OoS it (as seen in my own videos). You can DI out of it, but as Cherry said, FFing it can be a positive and a negative.

 

[NO-IDea]

F-air from the ledge is punishable by nearly the entire cast if SDI'ed up, followed by n-air/u-air.

No-Idea, revealing ways to beat Samus. :3

 

[KillerJawz]

F-air from the ledge is punishable by nearly the entire cast if SDI'ed up, followed by n-air/u-air.

No-Idea, revealing ways to beat Samus. :3

Yes because people are going to do that, STOP THEORYCRAFTING D: (jk, <3 NOID).

If your unpredictable with your fairs from the ledge, they catch people off guard and it can often lead to an upb <3.

 

[Mr9]

F-air from the ledge is punishable by nearly the entire cast if SDI'ed up, followed by n-air/u-air.

No-Idea, revealing ways to beat Samus. :3

i agree with you for the most part i constantly get punished for fairing of the ledge.

 

[-Cross-]

How much do you guys concentrate on getting the opponent on the platform? Because Samus has some beast platform pressure, with uairs, utilts, usmash (for shield pressure), fair, and upB. Are there any setups you try to implement?

I'm still working on establishing a good play style with Samus but I know I definitely want to implement a good platform pressure game with her.

 

[Xyro77]

Retreating fair from ledge is AMAZING.

 

[DelxDoom]

Most players (and characters!) are uncomfortable with dealing with such ledge tactics.

Samus's ledge game is far superior to a large majority of the cast due to zair, meaty moves such as fair, and one thing MK doesn't have; an up b that can immediately grab the edge (drill rush and dim cape have startup lag, shuttle loop has to loop first)

 

[KillerJawz]

Most players (and characters!) are uncomfortable with dealing with such ledge tactics.

Samus's ledge game is far superior to a large majority of the cast due to zair, meaty moves such as fair, and one thing MK doesn't have; an up b that can immediately grab the edge (drill rush and dim cape have startup lag, shuttle loop has to loop first)

True say. I've been realising how good her ledge game is recently, I have not been using it to it's full extent, however, I do perform Wall jumped Missles perfectly so it really keeps people guessing, and since they never risk a spike or gimp on Samus, I can just stall, I guess Xyro was on to something before.

 

[Mr9]

hey now man dont say htings like that we dont need to feed Xyro's ego its big enough... hhahahahah naw he would probably be glad to read it.

 

[KillerJawz]

hey now man dont say htings like that we dont need to feed Xyro's ego its big enough... hhahahahah naw he would probably be glad to read it.

Oh no I don't want to feed his ego, but theres no point in me lying about my feelings towards her ledge game.

 

[DelxDoom]

Literally all of Samus's moves that she can do from the edge can be useful except for bombs and probably nair.

Get up attack, get up normal, get up roll, get up jump
Drop then second jump zair through stage, uair, fair, missile, charge shot, airdodge, airdodge/zair
Drop then up b or zair edge (regrab edge/"stalling" but it's not really unless you're overusing)
Drop then wall jump bair/reverse cs or missile

 

[KillerJawz]

Literally all of Samus's moves that she can do from the edge can be useful except for bombs and probably nair.

Oh you have yet to see the wonders of nair. It's SERIOUSLY underrated and autocancels very nicely.

 

[Xyro77]

I guess Xyro was on to something before.

Im the best samus for a reason. I know i may not word/spell/punctuate my stuff correctly and i know sometimes my ideas seem off the wall but if you give them a legit shot you will see what i have been talking about this WHOLE time.

THANK YOU for giving what i created a shot.

 

[Mr9]

Im the best samus for a reason. I know i may not word/spell/punctuate my stuff correctly and i know sometimes my ideas seem off the wall but if you give them a legit shot you will see what i have been talking about this WHOLE time.

THANK YOU for giving what i created a shot.

dude i think we all have tried it, just not to the extent that you would like us to. i know i cant, i get bored after awhile.

 

[DelxDoom]

Oh you have yet to see the wonders of nair. It's SERIOUSLY underrated and autocancels very nicely.

Meh, it's nice as an edgeguard and I enjoy using it sometimes but the hitbox is just too high for me to take it that seriously.

 

[KillerJawz]

Meh, it's nice as an edgeguard and I enjoy using it sometimes but the hitbox is just too high for me to take it that seriously.

Yeah but if you go down low from the ledge then do a rising nair, because of the large hitbox, you can literally go unpunished.

 

[DelxDoom]

the hit box is too smallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

also if you hit early it sucks

 

[Darkshadow7827]

I like nair for edgeguarding. I wish it had more knockback though.

 

[Mr9]

i know fresh nair can kill in between 200-300% from the center of the FD but a bowser with good DI might be able to last longer.

i got this from just using nair in training mode on both bowser and jiggs. jiggs would die at like 200ish and bowser was at like 300ish. so i cant say what it would be with DI