Meta Shields in Smash4 / 1.1.1>

[Bowserboy3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCAh8lX6rTs

I don't know whether this has been bought up before, but I can confirm that Lucario's Aura Sphere will shatter a shield in this situation quicker the higher his percent is (kinda obvious, but I thought it would be worth mentioning nonetheless).

I did a few tests, and here were my findings (all tests were done in Training by increasing the damage on Lucario. Mario was my test dummy, taking time from the time it took for his full shield to break. Not completely accurate, I just used a stopwatch, so reactions aren't absolutely perfect, but there are obvious clear findings):



- Lucario at 0%: takes approx 7.5 seconds to break (time was 7.71 on my stopwatch).

- Lucario at 50%: takes approx 5.5 seconds to break (stopwatch time was 5.78)

- Lucario at 100%: takes approx 4.5 seconds to break (stopwatch time 4.60)

- Lucario at 150% : takes approx 3.5 seconds to break (stopwatch time 3.65)

- Lucario at 190% (max Aura) : takes approx 3.25 seconds to break (stopwatch time 3.26)


Like I said before, not the best way I imagine of testing, but it does show something. It does indeed show that shields will break quicker the higher Lucario's Aura is (expected). It does also show something interesting. Take 0%, it took approx 7.5 seconds, 50% took approx 5.5 seconds, which is a 2 second gap. From 50% to 100% there was a 1 second gap. 100% to 150% was also just about 1 second, but 150% to Max Aura 190% was only about a quarter second. This means that at lower percents, the increase between the gaps is more noticeable than the gaps at higher percent... if anyone gets my wording?

Nonetheless, if anyone has already bought this up, I apologise for wasting everyone's time, I just wanted to have some sort of an input.

I do wonder though, if there comes a point that trying to mash with Shield DI is pointless? Like for example, I could easily mash out of this from anywhere in the range of Lucario at 0% to 100% Anywhere at about 130% was when it got a lot harder and I got shield broke often. Of course, it could just be me sucking, but I thought it was worth bringing up.

 

[Yikarur]

Did I understand this correctly:
1.1.0 = a projectile that did 5 frames of shield stun, did 6 (?) additional frames of "shield stun" to not OoS options because the shield lock queued?
1.1.1 = a projectile that does 5 frames of shield stun overlaps with shield lock so you can drop the shield on frame 7 (?)

(Need correct numbers)

Meaning projectiles and weak attacks in general have been nerfed for non-OoS options?
Is that correct?

 

[Dabuz]

So basically in 1.1.0, shield stun applied AFTER shield lock? (outside of jump, roll, ect.)

Now in 1.1.1 shield stun applies DURING shield lock?

 

[LancerStaff]

So basically in 1.1.0, shield stun applied AFTER shield lock? (outside of jump, roll, ect.)

Now in 1.1.1 shield stun applies DURING shield lock?

That's what they're saying...

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

So basically in 1.1.0, shield stun applied AFTER shield lock? (outside of jump, roll, ect.)

Now in 1.1.1 shield stun applies DURING shield lock?

More likely the other way around? You'd be frozen in shield (minimum shield duration not counting down) due to shield stun, and then once the stun wore off shieldlock frames would start counting down. Shieldlock being first wouldn't really make much sense as you'd be able to do OoS actions and entirely negate the shieldstun.

 

[Dabuz]

More likely the other way around? You'd be frozen in shield (minimum shield duration not counting down) due to shield stun, and then once the stun wore off shieldlock frames would start counting down. Shieldlock being first wouldn't really make much sense as you'd be able to do OoS actions and entirely negate the shieldstun.

Ok, reversed the order but same effect, thanks.

 

[Swoops]

So if I'm understanding this right, it seems like they made shield stun a lot more concrete and consistent. Instead of shield stun being mostly reliant on the duration lock frames that you could jump/roll/grab out of anyways, they reworked the formula to increase the shield stun that you CAN'T jump/dodge/grab out of. The only trade is that the lock frames don't really come into play as much.

 

[Ulevo]

THis one could be relevant: https://trinket.io/python/35c2ec074b?toggleCode=true
Credits to the Sonic Boards.

Not very good.

 

[Purple_Anteater]

So if I'm understanding this right, it seems like they made shield stun a lot more concrete and consistent. Instead of shield stun being mostly reliant on the duration lock frames that you could jump/roll/grab out of anyways, they reworked the formula to increase the shield stun that you CAN'T jump/dodge/grab out of. The only trade is that the lock frames don't really come into play as much.

Just to try and expand on what you said. This seems more like a fix than a nerf. The fact that shield lock occurred after shield stun in certain situations is actually really weird now that i think about it. So now you can act out of shield faster when you've just barely missed a perfect shield, but not any faster than you can at any other time. And now there is a new (higher) stun multiplier on shields.

This is an awesome and very welcome change IMO.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Not very good.

The formula is incorrect, but it's fairly easy to edit.

In my defense, I didn't do it.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Just to try and expand on what you said. This seems more like a fix than a nerf. The fact that shield lock occurred after shield stun in certain situations is actually really weird now that i think about it. So now you can act out of shield faster when you've just barely missed a perfect shield, but not any faster than you can at any other time. And now there is a new (higher) stun multiplier on shields.

This is an awesome and very welcome change IMO.

Shield lock occurring after shield stun (rather than before) makes the most sense though. If it occurs before shield stun, then you can OoS to avoid taking shield stun. That said, making it so they're simultaneous is just more intuitive all around.

 

[Apeirohaon]

THis one could be relevant: https://trinket.io/python/35c2ec074b?toggleCode=true
Credits to the Sonic Boards.

I actually made this

Also, it's apparently inaccurate now. Here's a better/updated one (did I do something else wrong Ulevo ?):
https://trinket.io/python/d1d65e97ff?toggleCode=true

I have a couple questions too.
1. So is hitlag irrelevant when talking about shield safety now?
2. Do shield lock frames = shield drop frames? So if a move does >10.5%, the defender can drop shield immediately? Or an I interpreting this wrong?

 

[Purple_Anteater]

Shield lock occurring after shield stun (rather than before) makes the most sense though. If it occurs before shield stun, then you can OoS to avoid taking shield stun. That said, making it so they're simultaneous is just more intuitive all around.

It does make more sense than occurring before shield stun, that's completely nonsensical. But makes the most sense to occur during the hit stun. But with the previous shield stun multipliers that wouldn't make sense.

 

[Amadeus9]

I actually made this

Also, it's apparently inaccurate now. Here's a better/updated one:
https://trinket.io/python/d1d65e97ff?toggleCode=true

I have a couple questions too.
1. So is hitlag irrelevant when talking about shield safety now?
2. Do shield lock frames = shield drop frames? So if a move does >10.5%, the defender can drop shield immediately? Or an I interpreting this wrong?

Nope you git it wrong. If shield stun last longer than shield lag, there is no shield lag. Basically frames 4-11 you are locked to shield. If shield stun exceeds these bounds, then shield lag is irrelevant. If your attack has less than 8 frames of hitstun, hitting on frame 4 is more safe than hitting on frame 12. After this, it takes 7 frames to drop shield.

 

[Apeirohaon]

Nope you git it wrong. If shield stun last longer than shield lag, there is no shield lag. Basically frames 4-11 you are locked to shield. If shield stun exceeds these bounds, then shield lag is irrelevant. If your attack has less than 8 frames of hitstun, hitting on frame 4 is more safe than hitting on frame 12. After this, it takes 7 frames to drop shield.

I think you mean shield stun instead of hitstun?
What do you mean by shield lag?

I think the main thing I'm confused about right now is... what are shield lock frames? Re-reading the original post, I see that it's different from shield drop lag.

What does "Shield stun now overlaps with shield lock frames" change? Does it mean that prior to this patch, you suffer the 'shield lock' frames and the shield stun frames?

edit: If that last bit is true, wouldn't that mean that vs most moves you can act out of shield much faster now than before? Since there would effectively be an extra 8 frames of shield stun if that was case...


edit 2:
Okay, I think I get it now. Say you have a move with 5 frames of shield stun. Pre-patch, this happens:
1-4: Power Shield
5-6: Locked Into Shield (can grab, jump, etc.)
6: Attack connects on defender's shield
7-12: Defender in shield stun (cannot do anything)
13-17: Locked Into Shield (can grab, jump, etc.)
18-24: Shield Drop Lag (cannot do anything)

and now:
1-3: Power Shield
4-6: Locked Into Shield
6: Attack connects on defender's shield
7-12: Defender in shield stun
13-19: Shield Drop Lag

right?

So was this:

If your attack has less than 8 frames of hitstun, hitting on frame 4 is more safe than hitting on frame 12.

true prepatch, or is it true now?

 

[yume_nikki]

any attack dealing 10.5% or above will result in defender not receiving any locking after shield stun [?]

Does this mean that any attack above 10.5% will negate any OoS option, since the defender goes from shield stun to shield drop immediately?

 

[|RK|]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCAh8lX6rTs

I don't know whether this has been bought up before, but I can confirm that Lucario's Aura Sphere will shatter a shield in this situation quicker the higher his percent is (kinda obvious, but I thought it would be worth mentioning nonetheless).

I did a few tests, and here were my findings (all tests were done in Training by increasing the damage on Lucario. Mario was my test dummy, taking time from the time it took for his full shield to break. Not completely accurate, I just used a stopwatch, so reactions aren't absolutely perfect, but there are obvious clear findings):



- Lucario at 0%: takes approx 7.5 seconds to break (time was 7.71 on my stopwatch).

- Lucario at 50%: takes approx 5.5 seconds to break (stopwatch time was 5.78)

- Lucario at 100%: takes approx 4.5 seconds to break (stopwatch time 4.60)

- Lucario at 150% : takes approx 3.5 seconds to break (stopwatch time 3.65)

- Lucario at 190% (max Aura) : takes approx 3.25 seconds to break (stopwatch time 3.26)


Like I said before, not the best way I imagine of testing, but it does show something. It does indeed show that shields will break quicker the higher Lucario's Aura is (expected). It does also show something interesting. Take 0%, it took approx 7.5 seconds, 50% took approx 5.5 seconds, which is a 2 second gap. From 50% to 100% there was a 1 second gap. 100% to 150% was also just about 1 second, but 150% to Max Aura 190% was only about a quarter second. This means that at lower percents, the increase between the gaps is more noticeable than the gaps at higher percent... if anyone gets my wording?

Nonetheless, if anyone has already bought this up, I apologise for wasting everyone's time, I just wanted to have some sort of an input.

I do wonder though, if there comes a point that trying to mash with Shield DI is pointless? Like for example, I could easily mash out of this from anywhere in the range of Lucario at 0% to 100% Anywhere at about 130% was when it got a lot harder and I got shield broke often. Of course, it could just be me sucking, but I thought it was worth bringing up.

Out if curiosity, I want to know how long it takes ASC to break shields if Lucario is down a stock at max aura...

 

[Ulevo]

Ignore post. Slightly messed it up, too lazy to refix.

 

[thehard]

Is there any conceivable situation where an attacker is less safe on shield relative to 1.0.0 now?

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Is there any conceivable situation where an attacker is less safe on shield relative to 1.0.0 now?

I think Marth's and Roy's non-tippered moves actually get less safe, due to a shielding defender now having the same amount of of hitlag as the attacker. Zero Suit Samus's Down Smash suffers something similar due to a 0.0x hitlag multiplier that now affects a shielding defender as well. Also, several projectiles are less safe due to that same hitlag change, including Mega Man's lemons and FSmash (0.3x hitlag multiplier), and maybe Pikachu's Thunder Jolt as well (0.3x hitlag multiplier, +0.5x from electric element for a total of 0.8x hitlag multiplier).

 

[Ulevo]

I think Marth's and Roy's non-tippered moves actually get less safe, due to a shielding defender now having the same amount of of hitlag as the attacker. Zero Suit Samus's Down Smash suffers something similar due to a 0.0x hitlag multiplier that now affects a shielding defender as well. Also, several projectiles are less safe due to that same hitlag change, including Mega Man's lemons and FSmash (0.3x hitlag multiplier), and maybe Pikachu's Thunder Jolt as well (0.3x hitlag multiplier, +0.5x from electric element for a total of 0.8x hitlag multiplier).

I understood everything I said, but regarding the hitlag multipliers on projectiles. Does this essentially mean that all projectiles are worse, collectively, against shields in 1.1.1 now?

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I understood everything I said, but regarding the hitlag multipliers on projectiles. Does this essentially mean that all projectiles are worse, collectively, against shields in 1.1.1 now?

Not all projectiles, no. Many weak ones yes, but things like Samus's bombs and Charge Shot benefit immensely, Robin's Arcthunder causes insane amounts of shield pressure, Arcfire and Ness's PK Fire improve, Mii Gunner's FAir improves, Grenade Launch and Flame Pillar might improve, Mii Swordfighter's Gale Strike improves, and a whole bunch of other projectiles such as Link's everything or Mega Man's Metal Blade either don't care overall or actually improve.

 

[Apeirohaon]

Alright.

People I think are misunderstanding Shaya's post, but they are also not understanding the implications of what these mechanics actually mean in a gameplay interaction sense.

The way the shield mechanic works right now is there are different stages the shield goes through. If an attack hits the shield between frame 1-3, a perfect shield is performed. From frame 4-11, the character goes into shield lock frames. Shield lock frames are just the minimum amount of time the shield must stay active starting on frame 4 until it resolves on frame 11. The only actions that can be performed during this time are actions that allow a player to act out of shield, such as with a jump, roll or spot dodge. From frames 12-18, these are the shield drop frames. These are not necessarily on frame 12-18 all the time, just if you were to press shield and let go immediately. If a player were to hold shield, these 7 frames would be later. This is because the shield has to go through the minimum 11 frames before it can enter the shield drop. During the 7 frames of shield drop time, you cannot do anything at all.

What Shaya is saying regarding the 1.1.1 update is that if you are hit with an attack on shield during the shield lock frames, which are 4-11 or longer if you keep holding the shield, the stun that is applied to the shield does not add on to the shield lock frames, or push them ahead, but shares them. Meaning that if you have 11 frames before you go into the 7 frames of shield drop, and you get hit with a move that induces 5 frames of shield stun during shield lock, the shield will not begin the 7 frames of shield drop after frame 16. It will not add 5 frames.

However, if a move is stronger than 10.5%, and it induces 9 frames of shield stun or more and hits the shield on frame 4 or later, it will move past the minimum 8 frames of shield lock, thus postponing the 7 frame shield drop window.

Along with this change in the shield mechanics, we also have a change in the formula for shield stun that makes moves have more shield stun.

This ultimately has a few implications:

1: It makes true shield advantage on moves greater than they were previously.
2: It makes shield drop options against moves with low shield stun weaker.
3: It makes the shield drop window consistently 'disadvantageous', for a lack of a better explanation.

Here is an example.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Meta Knight

This is Meta Knight's frame data.

Attack | Shield Stun | Advantage | F4 Shield Drop | F11 Shield Drop
Dash Attack 1 | 5 | -20 | -7 | -3

This is a chart I made demonstrating the relative advantage Meta Knight has by using the sweet spot of his dash attack on a players shield. This chart assumes it is hitting on frame 7, which is the earliest the dash attack hit box can come out.

The shield stun is obviously the amount of time you are stunned in shield when Meta Knight's dash attack hits the shield, and is formulated based on the Shaya's formula of 5/1.75+2. The 'Advantage' is what I call the true advantage. It is the amount of disadvantaged frames Meta Knight incurs when he hits the shield to his next first actionable frame, which is on frame 32, compared to when the player shielding can act using methods that allow the player to cancel the shield (specifically jump, aerials, up smash, up special, roll, spot dodge). The 'F4 Shield Drop' column is the amount of "relative" shield advantage Meta Knight has based on certain options assuming he hits the shield on the earliest shield lock frame, or just passed the perfect shield window. The 'F11 Shield Drop' column demonstrates the same thing, just on the latest possible shield frame, or if the player had decided to hold the shield past the minimum window and will enter the shield drop window as soon as the shield stun resolves. Essentially what these two latter columns are saying is that, yes, you can roll, spot dodge, jump, et cetera, with 20 frames of advantage on Meta Knight if you want, but if you want to punish with say...a dash attack, which can only be done through a shield drop, then you are only going to have 7-3 frames to do so, depending on when I hit your shield.

This is important. The reason this is important is because it is entirely dependent on the context of when and how the move is used, and what character you are playing against. Looking at the raw data in the example I have given, 3-7 frames seems pretty decent. Then you realize that it's Meta Knight's dash attack, and it goes roughly 1/3rd the space of Final Destination, making it very difficult to punish. By knowing this knowledge, you can ascertain which options are safe on shield in most situations. Shiek and Pikachu for instance are going to have a much easier time punishing options like this than say Robin, who might not have a move with the mobility, properties or frame speed to punish within the given window.

This is making a little bit more sense, but I'm still not sure where you got -20, -7, and -3 from

edit: ok. I get where 20 comes from I think (7-32+5), but still don't get -7 and -3
edit 2: nvm i got it

 

[jet56]

alright, i think im gonna try to explain exactly what changed about shields and how.
Shield Stun: the amount of frames you are locked into shield, where you cannot perform ANY actions, including OoS (out of shield options)
Shield lag: the amount of frames you must wait until you can drop your shield. you can perform OoS options while in shield lag.
Shield drop lag: the amount of frames AFTER you drop your shield that you must wait until you can perform another action.
Perfect shield: a special condition in frames 1-3 of putting your shield up, where if you get hit during perfect shield, you will not suffer any shield stun, shield lag, or shield drop lag.
X=% damage of a move, also, it rounds down, so if it were 7.8 frames of shield stun, it would round down to 7.
shield formula patch 1.1.0: X/2.56
shield formula patch 1.1.1: (X/1.75)+2 (it has been going around that the formula is (X/1.8)+3, however the previous formula is more accurate.)

alright now here is a solid example to help compare and explain.

Player 1 hits Player 2 on frame 5 of Pl. 2's shield. the move has 10% damage and shield damage.
patch 1.1.0: 10/2.56=3.9 frames of shield stun, which rounds down to 3 frames of shield stun.so after the attack lands on the shield, its 3 frames of shield stun, then 8 frames of shield lag, then 7 frames of shield drop lag. 3+8+7=18 frames. however, if you were to use a OoS option (shield grab anyone?), then you would only suffer 3 frames of shield stun, therefore cutting out 15 frames.
patch 1.1.1: (10/1.75)+2=7.7 frames of shield stun, which rounds down to 7 frames of shield stun. so after the attack lands on the shield, its 7 frames of shield stun, then 8 frames of shield lag, then 7 frames of shield drop lag.however, this new patch overlaps the shield stun and shield lag, which means the 7 frames of shield stun overlaps 7 out of 8 of the shield lag frames. 7+1+7= 15 frames. again though, if you used a OoS option, you would only suffer 7 frames of shield stun.

so, to compare:
patch:1.1.0-18 frames, 3 frames if using OoS
patch:1.1.1-15 frames,7 frames if using OoS

i will be honest, i don't want to give an explanation on what is happening to the attacker when he is hitting a shield, in terms of shield hit lag, shield push back, and so on, so i will leave it to someone else. in fact i want someone to explain what happens to the attacker when they hit a shield, and what kind of frame lag they suffer, cause i don't fully understand it

 

[Ulevo]

This is making a little bit more sense, but I'm still not sure where you got -20, -7, and -3 from

edit: ok. I get where 20 comes from I think (7-32+5), but still don't get -7 and -3
edit 2: nvm i got it

I messed up the math not accounting for the 1-3 frames of perfect shield not counting towards the total. It's fixed now.

 

[Horseketchup]

Here's the way I understand the shield lock changes:

Shieldstun frames now overlap with shield lock frames. Meaning if you barely miss the powershield window, the shieldstun frames now "eat up" some of the shield lock frames that previously used to be stacked on top of shieldstun.

• So say you hit someone on frame 5 of their shield with an attack that does 3 frames of shieldstun. The 3 frames of shieldstun would be subtracted from the 7 remaining frames of shield lock, and you'd incur 4 frames of extra shield lock after shieldstun ends (which only affects the time it takes to drop shield). Before this patch, shieldstun wouldn't have lowered it at all, and you would've received the full 7 frames of extra shield lock after shieldstun ended (though the overall shieldstun would've been lower).

 

[jet56]

ok, so i have to ask, can someone help completely explain how Shield hit lag works now for the attacker, when you hit a shield? i want to know precisely how it works, and how it can be calculated for an attack or character.

 

[Big O]

@Pikabunz



I'm spending way too much time around crazy paradigms where +1 and -1s are and differences between numbers are either one way or the other; sanity is definitely going poor places. Fixed.

Powershielding was changed to 3 frames this patch. I did say it was a 4 frame window and am 100% confident it was the case on 1.1.0, but Sakurai is the master troll. It also stopped used to stop the 11 frame timer on the frame hit, so getting hit on frame 11 would finish the 11th frame after shieldstun ended. I am amused at how quickly everything changed right after I posted it lol.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

So from what I understand, if a move has fewer than 8 more frames of shieldstun than it had pre-patch, you can do non-OoS options sooner. If it has more than 8 more frames of shieldstun than it had pre-patch, you have to wait longer to do non-OoS options. And regardless of how many more frames it does now than pre-patch, you will always have to wait longer to do OoS options. Is this correct?

 

[Horseketchup]

So what exactly was the change to electric attacks? How did they work before, and how do they work differently now?

- Attacks with an electric attribute apply an additive [?] 0.5x hit lag modifier, these are now also affecting the defender

I'm guessing this means the attacker used to receive 50% more hitlag than the defender, but now both attacker and defender receive 50% more hitlag on electric attacks?

 

[jet56]

So from what I understand, if a move has fewer than 8 more frames of shieldstun than it had pre-patch, you can do non-OoS options sooner. If it has more than 8 more frames of shieldstun than it had pre-patch, you have to wait longer to do non-OoS options. And regardless of how many more frames it does now than pre-patch, you will always have to wait longer to do OoS options. Is this correct?

that's the jist of it. basically, it means that shields are not useless, but they aren't a singularly strong option, and shieldgrabbing is muich less of a problem

 

[Spark31]

Is there any way we could get a list of new true blockstrings, as with the new shield lag stuff there should be more of them, and a list of moves that, because they are multihit, will shield lock the opponent? Or is this too much to ask. I would assume that the sub-forums for each character would probobly handle blockstrings, but new multihit shieldlock moves would be useful to know about.

 

[Player-1]

Shaya Am I doing these calculations right?

According to this formula floor(damage / 1.75) + 2

and this page http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Zero Suit Samus

If ZSS does, say, a perfectly timed landing bair on your shield. Then she is -3 on block?

bair (strong hit) damage is 12. (12/1.75) +2 = 8.85 = (rounded down) 8. So 8 frames of shield stun.

Her landing lag on bair is 11 and you said hitlag and shield hitlag are now equal so they cancel each other out?

"Attacks with an electric attribute apply an additive [?] 0.5x hit lag modifier, these are now also affecting the defender"

So her nair would still follow the same thing? damage is 10. (10/1.75)+2=7.71 (rounded down) 7, 7 frames of shield stun.

Landing lag on nair is 10 and hitlag and shield hitlag are all matching, this is also -3?

 

[Shaya]

You're correct.

And bair is 11 frames of landing lag~
If you're looking for diddy data I already have it.

 

[Player-1]

lol what data do you have? I did a lot of the calculations using the formula with +3, so I imagine those were just 1 frame off.

and ya I did calculations with 11 but posted 13 for some reason

 

[[Deuce]]

Tid bit implication theory:

Moves have more shield stun, but they are now eating up shield lock frames.

Let's take sheik's fair pre patch, 1 frame of shield stun.
If she hit you on frame 4 (i.e. you missed power shield), she was getting an "extra 7 frames" of shield stun.

Now the shield stun of the move is 4 frames
but if she hits you on frame 4; she's now only getting "3 extra frames" of shield stun, albeit the overall advantage from hitting a shield on frame 4 is exactly the same.

Wait this doesn't add up. How is it exactly the same if 7 extra frames + 1 frame of shield stun is 8 frames, vs 1.1.1 where its 3 extra frames + 4 frames of shield stun = 7 frames?

But everything else you've mentioned remains pretty consistent -> assuming others are correct and the shield stun in 1.1.0 is placed prior to shield lock frames, here's a graphic I drafted depicting the differences just so our heads stop hurting.

http://imgur.com/IqBD2f7

 

[HeroMystic]

So let me see if I can simplify the effects of this.

• OOS Options are now not as potent due to increased shield stun.
• High Shield Stun moves now completely nullifies the advantage of OOS options.

Example: (Assuming Frame 1-3 is a Powershield) Player 1 induces 6 frames of shieldstun to Player 2 on frame 4 of a held shield.

• Pre-Patch, this would be 6 frames of shieldstun(No control), plus 7 frames of shield lock(OOS Options).
• Post-Patch, this would be 6 frames of shieldstun(No control), plus 1 frame of shield lock(OOS Options).

Now an Extreme Example: Player 1 induces 30 frames of shieldstun to Player 2 on frame 10 of a held shield.

• Pre-Patch, this would be 30 frames of shieldstun(No control), plus 1 frame of shield lock(OOS Options).
• Post-Patch, this would be 30 frames of shieldstun(No control) and that's it.

All of this sounds like everything is the same as before except all native OOS options such as Jumping, Grabbing, Rolling, and Spotdodging are less central options because shield stun frames have a more potent duration and now overlaps with shield locking.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Could someone also simply the effects of electric attacks on shield? This is important as a Robin main, since all of my aerials except nair have electric effects.

 

[Player-1]

all of your hypothetical examples where you say you shield some on frame 4 and then compare pre patch to post patch gives you a powershield pre patch btw.

 

[HeroMystic]

Which is why I clarified with saying "Assuming Frame 1-3 is a Powershield". It's a simplification for the sake of easier reading. This mess is confusing enough as is.

Leaving out that minor detail feels for the best, especially since it no longer applies.