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Shell Shocked V [11/7/09] MD/VA, tristate, South, get in on this! [POUND 4 RULESET]
- Thread starter ChRed2AKrisp
- Start date
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Cool, this will be fun 
Ghostype
Smash Champion
Why don't I read Smashboards....I didn't even know Chu was having a tournament Saturday. >_> I am good at missing Melee events.
DJ Nintendo
Smash Champion
Me, Chops, Chu Dat and Azen are gonna be in the top four for singles. Get at the kids =)
PB&J
Smash Hero
1st -P
2nd-B
3rd-&
4th-J
5th-nana
2nd-B
3rd-&
4th-J
5th-nana
ChRed2AKrisp
Smash Master
Wait so I jsut found out pound 4 made PS a counterpick....
I'm not so sure I want pound 4 rules at this now.
I'm not so sure I want pound 4 rules at this now.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
You're so ignorant. I had to tell you. >_>
White_Mike
Smash Lord
I lol'd.
This tournament is looking beast, maybe I can magically find a ride to this...doubt it though :[.
Make sure to record ****! :D
PB&J
Smash Hero
thats why i didnt understand before..please make stadium a netrual
You either need to remove a stage or add one to get an odd number. I like removing stadium rather than including KJ64.
PS tends to get stricken for game 1 anyway, it's not very balanced.
PB&J
Smash Hero
i think stadium is one of the most balanced stages in the game..people need to just wait when the stage changes...i think it is better than fod and battlefield
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Stadium is more balanced than FoD. That stage is gay beyond belief. I don't see how people can complain about all the Stadium transformations when really the only bad one is Brokeback Mountain. The rest are fine and CERTAINLY easier to deal with than moving platforms that interrupt everything.
Chred add KJ64 as a 7th stage or remove FoD from the neutrals and make that the CP for stage striking.
Chred add KJ64 as a 7th stage or remove FoD from the neutrals and make that the CP for stage striking.
You have to include the stage changes when talking about PS. You can't just tell people to wait for the stage to change back. The water and wind parts are acceptable imo (event though marth's dtilt goes through the stage
) but the fire and rock stages are much much worse then FoD. Walls in melee generally tip the scales to one character.I don't see what the big deal with FoD. 2 Moving platforms isn't nearly as bad as an entire stage that changes.
FoD also has some of the most reasonable ledges in melee, which can't be said for PS.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Because the stage doesn't change after it transforms. Once it's made the transition to fire or rock or whichever, it STAYS that way until it transforms again. The platforms on FoD are constantly moving (apparantly the water tips you off as to when, but I never knew that because I avoid that stage as much as possible and don't look in the background constantly). Looking at the water won't stop the fact that the platforms will move up and ruin a combo or tech chase or even edgeguard sometimes.You have to include the stage changes when talking about PS. You can't just tell people to wait for the stage to change back. The water and wind parts are acceptable imo (event though marth's dtilt goes through the stage
I don't see what the big deal with FoD. 2 Moving platforms isn't nearly as bad as an entire stage that changes.
We're all biased on these stages because of our mains, but I still hated FoD back when I mained Fox and before I ever picked up Falcon. Personal preference I guess. The best thing for us to do then would be just keep things as they were or add KJ64 for stage striking. And Pakman I know you hate KJ64 as Luigi just as how I hate FoD as Falcon
FoD isn't as bad for Falcon as YS is
there, I said it.
and KJ's fine for Luigi, if you need to shoot into the stage to live, you're probably about to get baired and die anyway.
there, I said it.
and KJ's fine for Luigi, if you need to shoot into the stage to live, you're probably about to get baired and die anyway.
Because the stage doesn't change after it transforms. Once it's made the transition to fire or rock or whichever, it STAYS that way until it transforms again. The platforms on FoD are constantly moving (apparantly the water tips you off as to when, but I never knew that because I avoid that stage as much as possible and don't look in the background constantly). Looking at the water won't stop the fact that the platforms will move up and ruin a combo or tech chase or even edgeguard sometimes.
We're all biased on these stages because of our mains, but I still hated FoD back when I mained Fox and before I ever picked up Falcon. Personal preference I guess. The best thing for us to do then would be just keep things as they were or add KJ64 for stage striking. And Pakman I know you hate KJ64 as Luigi just as how I hate FoD as Falcon
Yeah but I am trying to remove a gay stage rather than add one.
EDIT: RE-GIF
thumbswayup
Smash Master
>____________________>
wut
Right, but it wouldn't be fair now if you got to remove your gay stage and I didn't get to remove mine
In this case both should go or both should stay. So how about they both stay and we forget about stage striking entirely?
FoD is larger and has less stupid edges. Falcon dies when he gets off the stage, and on YS, it's mindbogglingly easy to be knocked off the stage, where you opponent now has a slanted downward edge to edgeguard you with.
So long as you don't stupidly try to approach through a low platform on FoD, there is nothing wrong with the stage for Falcon. Yes, it forces you to play differently than other stages, but so long as you're capable of doing so, it's a perfectly fine stage.
1. FoD is noticeably less gay than PS and that's coming from a Spacie playerRight, but it wouldn't be fair now if you got to remove your gay stage and I didn't get to remove mine
2. Stage Striking is a much better system than hitting a random button
Hyrule Temple doesn't change. Why not put that on neutral? It isn't the fact that the stage changes. It's the fact that the stage changes tip the balance. The rock and fire stages heavily favor spacies. The water stage makes marth's edge guarding gay. The ledges are dumb.
Every character is affected pretty much the same by the platforms on FoD. They make it harder to L cancel and waveland. We are talking about balance here. FoD's nonsense generally does not give as big of an advantage as PS.
The ledge on YS is much worse. FoD falcon can recover better against characters who edge guard on stage (marth peach).
It's not up to us. They said they wanted to do pound 4 rules. People complained about PS being removed.Right, but it wouldn't be fair now if you got to remove your gay stage and I didn't get to remove mine
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
You're still going to ban FoD anyway because you play Falcon, what's the point?
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Against certain characters, yes Yoshi's would be worse for Falcon (Marth comes to mind). But in general, that stage is better for Falcon. You'll die easier sure, but that also means you can kill more quickly. You can kill with the knee at like the 40-50% range on the edge. There's also Scar jumping of course, but the fact that FoD obliterates your combo ability (I realize that you have to play very different on that stage as Falcon, but that's no fun for me) and grants HUGE advantages to characters like Sheik just make a win there extremely hard.
I think Falcon does much better on YS against the spacies and that counts for something.
Just as you say the platforms on FoD make it harder to L cancel and waveland, the edges on Stadium make it harder to recover. All characters are affected by that. And while those certain stage changes favor some characters over others, FoD will always greatly favor a character like Sheik no matter who she is up against.
What I'm trying to say here is both stages are unfair in their own way and I think just about everyone would agree that one or the other shouldn't have been a neutral. I just think it's dumb to make Stadium a CP and leave FoD on neutral. Remove both or keep both.
It's the principle, FoD shouldn't be a neutral if PS isn't. If you guys get to not worry about PS being a neutral then I shouldn't have to worry about FoD being a neutral.
I don't feel like FoD gives a huge advantage to any character, and really don't understand why people's panties get all bunched up about Sheik in particular on it.
the whole point of stage striking is that it normalizes for stages that throw matchups out of whack.
Personally, I believe that all legal stages should be on for game 1 and you should just strike from them and then get 2 bans, so strike from:
FD
DL64
YS
BF
FoD
PS
KJ64
Brinstar
Rainbow Cruise
Then on counterpick games, ban 2 stages, use a version of DSR, and voila, no inconsistency in the rules about the fairness of stages.
But this causes logicistical issues in that you have to strike down from 9 stages and ban twice, which could be difficult for the community to wrap their heads around. There's also the issue of swallowing the idea of dropping the neutral/counterpick and counterpick/banned distinctions in favor of simply having a legal/illegal distinction.
So in the light of keeping things under the whole neutral/counterpick framework we've beaten into our heads, we cut the stage striking list down a lot, but it really shouldn't end up affecting many matchups' stage 1 at all.
ChRed2AKrisp
Smash Master
Hmm I'm gonna need a day to decide what to do. Maybe i'll do a vote.
PB&J
Smash Hero
dont vote..just do the smae rules we are use too..no need to change it now
pockyD
Smash Legend
if you use stage striking, it doesn't matter what stages are or aren't in the stage list
edit: to prove my point, next time i run a tournament, i'm going to include flatzone in my set of starter stages and see if that affects anything at all
edit: to prove my point, next time i run a tournament, i'm going to include flatzone in my set of starter stages and see if that affects anything at all
chred u can still cp stadium. the whole point is that its not a random just so we have 5 stages, not 7. its the least neutral neutral OBVIOUSLY to anyone who is unbiased (seems to be almost impossible for anyone who plays falcon to be).
if you want to go with 7 go for it, but im just saying its boring to watch the first match of a set on KJ lmao.
and ROFL@thumbs, u act like a 7 year old.
ITS NOT FAIR THAT THEY TAKE OFF THEIR BAD STAGE BUT NOT MINE. WAAAH WAAAH.
spacies have the advantage EVEN MORE on stadium against EVERY char other than themselves, when they ALREADY have an innate advantage without needing help from the stage. FOD is hurting FALCON and basically only him, and it's not even that bad for falcon if ur good with platforms and use them well. god forbid characters like sheik that already **** you **** you a bit more on there (and u can just strike it if you play that character) whereas characters like falco/marth/anyone who sheik cgs does JUST AS WELL if not better on FOD against sheik than on other neutrals. PS is gayer for space animal players who already have enough of an advantage than any other neutral is for any single character, so thats why it got taken away and not FOD.
if you cant see that because your head is too clustered with "ZOMG FALCON" then i really can't help you there.
plus, my fox and falco are better than ur falcon anyway thumbs so maybe i should be complaining about stadium being banned and not fountain!
if you want to go with 7 go for it, but im just saying its boring to watch the first match of a set on KJ lmao.
and ROFL@thumbs, u act like a 7 year old.
ITS NOT FAIR THAT THEY TAKE OFF THEIR BAD STAGE BUT NOT MINE. WAAAH WAAAH.
spacies have the advantage EVEN MORE on stadium against EVERY char other than themselves, when they ALREADY have an innate advantage without needing help from the stage. FOD is hurting FALCON and basically only him, and it's not even that bad for falcon if ur good with platforms and use them well. god forbid characters like sheik that already **** you **** you a bit more on there (and u can just strike it if you play that character) whereas characters like falco/marth/anyone who sheik cgs does JUST AS WELL if not better on FOD against sheik than on other neutrals. PS is gayer for space animal players who already have enough of an advantage than any other neutral is for any single character, so thats why it got taken away and not FOD.
if you cant see that because your head is too clustered with "ZOMG FALCON" then i really can't help you there.
plus, my fox and falco are better than ur falcon anyway thumbs so maybe i should be complaining about stadium being banned and not fountain!
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I feel like there are going to be a lot of money matches going on at this tournament. I will be recording them from the shadows with my camera (and perhaps offering commentary).
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
falcon is broken enough
Vanz, log off of Swift's account plz or I will report you to the mods.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Last I checked I wasn't the one crying when people were rooting against me
Also, your hatred of PS shines through your entire argument, you're complaining just as much as me about a certain stage. Seems like if you're gonna tell me to get better with platform stages with Falcon then I'm gonna tell you to get used to adapting your playstyle with Sheik on the transformations. And stop crying about Fox.
I can't wait to do that mm with you now. lol I don't even care if I lose cause I'll only lose $20 whereas you'll lose $60, plus the expression on your face will be priceless if I beat you. Stop being a cocky douche for 2 seconds in your life and maybe your region won't root against you.
pockyD
Smash Legend
he hates PS because it's the least "neutral" stage. i don't understand the confusion
ChRed2AKrisp
Smash Master
It's hard to quantify. But plank is pretty correct. PS is neutral because of it's base state, but everything else in it is annoying or messed up. and one of my mains is fox so if anything i'm biased towards it.
I don't want to see a grand finals match with a peach and a fox or something and the stage changes and we have to wait like a minute while the peach just throws turnips from one side of the tree.
Out of curiosity though, I know for stage striking you need an odd number, but pound is still random/counterpicks. Why does that need to be an odd number?
Thumbs, why not just ban FoD. If he bans PS it's the same as it would have been, if not you can counterpick to there, you always do anyways.
I don't want to see a grand finals match with a peach and a fox or something and the stage changes and we have to wait like a minute while the peach just throws turnips from one side of the tree.
Out of curiosity though, I know for stage striking you need an odd number, but pound is still random/counterpicks. Why does that need to be an odd number?
Thumbs, why not just ban FoD. If he bans PS it's the same as it would have been, if not you can counterpick to there, you always do anyways.
pockyD
Smash Legend
pound is stage striking