I do believe your f-tilt lock only works on Ness at 20% and I think ends around 50%. And Sheik has a grab release on Ness? I mean, ****! Is Ness turning into Wario or something? Who else has a grab release on him? Anyway, if I do recall correctly, your f-tilt lock can be SDI'd out of, right? You've got your Needle Storm, but it's only really useful on the ground and attempting to gimp us. Our fair I do believe pretty much out-prioritizes most of your attacks. Feel free to correct me at any point as I haven't played this game for about four months now.
Sheik has a good DACUS, but it may be stopped by Ness' Yo-yo and surely PK Fire if timed right. Surprisingly PK Fire has fairly good range. As for your guys' recovery, I can't say it's any better than ours. Does the reappearance of Sheik's Up B harm her enemies or does that only work when she disappears? The reason I ask is because if you're put in a bad spot, you're bound to get edge guarded just as bad as Lucario.
The thing about both our recoveries is that it isn't over until you can get us at least below stage level. And just like Ness', your recovery is just as predictable as Zelda's, which means for us Ness mains, if we really wanted to PKT2 into you when you returned or use PK Flash on you, we could if we predict you correctly. What else? Well I can't really think of anything else at this point. But I can't agree with Snakeee that the match up is that high. If you guys do have the advantage, I'd at least say 55:45, Sheik or a possible even, who knows?
Our f-tilt lock is just that, a lock. If it was anything else we would call it f-tilt set ourselves up or punishment.
We have a AR better recovery than you.
We have a tether (you don't).
We both have good second jumps (yours is better).
We use our Vanish which when close to the ledge we auto grab it. We also have a big hit box.
You however, have to float there while others can attack your PK Thunder/time a ledge hog easily.
TBH, you have two edge guarding options.
#1 PK Fire/Thunder/Flash
We can simply counter this by using our Chain and instantly teleporting to the ledge.
#2 Edge hog
This limits you even worse IMO.
Unless our Vanish falls hort of the stage we will recover.
I seriously don't see us getting ledge hogged though.
Ness's attack send you diagnol and if not diagnol it can be DI'd/SDI'd to make it diagnol.
That means we can safely make it back without getting edge hogged.
ps Our chain reach is farther than your PK Fire reach I believe.
Yeah, the reason I had asked was because I've been finding a few other characters who could grab release him.
But does Sheik really have one on Ness? I never knew about this.
Everything that you have heard about grab release is true.
I believe every character in the game has a ground grab release CG on you.
Well there are some flaws that Ness doesn't have that Lucas does have. I'm happy to know that Ness has better match ups, too. Anyway, if it's an air release > DACUS, I'm not too sure I should be as worried since I'd assume by then Shiek's u-smash is staled. That ground one sounds like it'd be annoying, though.
You are wrong.
Air release DACUS is legit and something to be feared.
On top of that, it is a KO.
i don't know of any sheiks that stale usmash.
dsmash is more used.
usmash is one of her most reliable kills moves so it should be kept fresh.
and the tip can kill snake with DI at around 100% i think?
I know some people who.
I am one of them.
DSmash for a KO?
That is more of a "**** off dude" move. Use it when you feel pressure or as a f-tilt lock ender/combo.
USmash, Nair, Vanish and maybe FSmash are your KO moves.
(Yes FSmash is useful... when spaces right.)
Ankoku is right they can air release if timed right but the good news is that regardless of whether they ground break or air break we always have a follow up option of some kind so if ness gets grabbed hes gonna have some problems.
Uffe ness has a nice fair coming back on stage but if ness can make it back on with a second jump then that give him many options and gimping wont be as easy then. The part where you have trouble is when youre knocked so far from the stage that a second jump wont be enough and u have to pkt2. Then we have ways of stopping u and we have a nice setup to that situation via grab release to fair at the higher percents. Again i dont have enough experience with the ness matchup to say whos favor its in but i am quite sure that sheik ***** ness offstage. But sheik ***** alot of ppl off stage.
I second this mans statement.
K, this is what I think is important in this match up.
Spacing:
Bair is to legit for spacing.
Spam it is you must. It out ranges this dude.
Just fear PK Fire.
Approaching:
Use Bair to approach.
If you can FF Nair that is also a good idea.
Fair is a semi good spacing idea, but it lacks a large range. Still use it to get decay, that is if the likely hood of punishment is low.
F-tilt:
lol, good shiz right here.
Try and grab him early on by using Bair/Fair/Nair.
From there get in your FULL f-tilt lock.
After that grab release him> f-tilt> regrab for more damage. If something happen and you mess up owell. Just throw Needle's.
When he is at KO perents, bring the heat.
Needle's:
Needle's are good against Ness since his only options are, get hit, reflect with Bat (lol), shield (and that jazz) and jump.
IMO, Needle him on his landing.
Chain:
Bad idea to chain camp this dude.
The better option is a chain guard.
He lack range to get you out of your chain when he is recovering. Just throw it out and keep the dude away. Eventually you set him up for you to ledge hog or you make him PK Thunder and his Thunder will hit the lip.
Some bullet points about Ness:
Avoid getting grabbed.
You really don't want to get grabbed.
If he uses PK Thunder you simply ask yourself "is he close?" or "is he right next to me?"
Ness's like to be skillful and flashy with PK Thunder.
If he is far away just throw Needle's.
If he is close get worried. They will try and hit you with that PK Thunder tail.
Your best option is to roll out of there. If you can dash before you roll since it increase's your roll distance. When you are safe and away from him, throw Needle's before he tries anything clever.
Don't get to cocky about your grabs release's K?
Remember that you still have to play on your toes. Grabs release's are only there as a little bit of extra support.
If the dude starts to raise his Hand over his head I want you to hit the L/R button ASAP!
He is gonna shoot the **** Fire at you. So just shield, jump and go from there (if he goes for another Fire roll back and throw Needle's).
His best KO option is FSmash.
It has some start up lag so just watch what you are doing. If you are in close you should be grabbing or f-tilting. If you are close to being close you should be SPACING with Bair. Spacing involves watching what they are doing. So watch and see if he is gonna hit you with the FSmash. If the answer is yes then avoid it and punish with a dash grab.
If he use's his double jump I want you to throw Needle's at him.
This stops him from continuing to recover and makes him use PK Thunder.
Read about the Chain if you want to know what happens next.
IMO, the match up is 60 - 40 Sheik.
:EDIT:
I smell Ness underestimation.
Ness has an amazing air game, and a decent ground game. I think the match is in our favor, but it isn't an easy match up if the Ness can keep up pressure with spaced fair and not leave room for needles. yeah we have tons of strengths, edge guarding, grab release. but you guys are completely ignoring ness strengths.
K, lets go over his strengths.
Fair
Nair
Bair
Good air movement and thus good spacing.
A sweet yo-yo.
A really good throw.
I match your spacing and raise you a shield grab.
I match your yo-yo with f-tilt.
I pray I don't get grabbed.....
He will try and take this match to the air.
Which is why spacing with Bair is soooooo important. You need to make sure that the very tip of your foot is in his face. Any closer and your are in the danger zone. Which is why shield grabbing is so important. If he is getting to close you need to stop jumping, land, hold L/R and hit A.
Besides, we have about what, 30 free damage in f-tilt lock + grab release games + an awesome gimp game + KO set ups.
A good Ness will give us a run for our money by spacing like a pro, but once we get a f-tilt lock (which leads into a grab) he can kiss low and mid percents (if played right) good bye.
They will be playing the match at the ledge, at high percents and when they have no damage to little damage.
but if i was to play Colin or Fow i would be scared as hell