Sheikah Survival Guide: A Sheik Match-up Thread

[stealth3654]

So everyone agrees that the match-up ratio is 55/45 Peach and no one has anything else to add?

 

[choknater]

yeah its pretty much decided. the matchup is fairly even, can go either way

for now peach has a slight range and priority advantage, sheik has a VERY SLIGHT speed advantage, and peach's recovery is better.

but i think what we can all (hopefully) agree on is that the matchup is fun :D eheheh

light must be a really good strategist to think the matchup is in sheik's favor. that and patient, hehe

 

[stealth3654]

Ok then. We will move on to Ike.

Discuss!

 

[gm jack]

Fear his jab game.

Other than that, he is pretty slow, and easy to camp. Just make sure you are familiar with the hitboxes for his moves, as the Fsmash hitting above and behind has caught me out a few times.

Also, easy to gimp. Just don't let yourself get spiked by not using the invincibility frames properly if he needs to upB.

I find that Sheik just has such a great speed advantage that most of his options are useless unless the Sheik seriously messes up. That said, Ike has a good, fast Bair and probably the best jab game in the game. They will rack some serious damage on quickly if you keep getting hit by it, and they do not need much to put you in kill percentages.

 

[clowsui]

you're wrong about the jab game lol...Falco and Snake easily have the best jab games

 

[gm jack]

you're wrong about the jab game lol...Falco and Snake easily have the best jab games

You can SDI out of the last hit of Snakes jab, and I was not aware that he had any good jab cancels.

Falco does have a very good jab, but he lack the ability to mix it up as well as Ike IMO. Ike has some insane jab cancel options, as his jab has a fair amount of hit stun,

 

[stealth3654]

You can SDI out of the last hit of Snakes jab, and I was not aware that he had any good jab cancels.

Falco does have a very good jab, but he lack the ability to mix it up as well as Ike IMO. Ike has some insane jab cancel options, as his jab has a fair amount of hit stun,

Snake has jab cancel > ftilt, utilt, and grab. What else does he need?

Enough about Snake though. Ike can jab cancel > bair, which can kill. Watch out for his forward air since it has a huge hit box (can hit under him) with small landing lag. Also, his neutral air stays out for a long time. If Ike tries to sweet spot the edge with his side B (or just barely get over it), then you can jump out in front of him. This will cause you to get it, but he will fall to his doom. If you are trying to grab the ledge without using the chain, watch out for his down tilt because it spikes. Also, be careful when trying to air dodge past Ike's up air because it stays out for a LONG time and he can fast fall with you.

One more thing, you can tilt lock Ike pretty well.

 

[choknater]

hm.... you need to find the open spots against ike. i know he has a lot of range and priority over everything you do, but sheik can easily find those times between attacks to approach. many times, sheik can just run up and grab him if he's not spacing right. this matchup comes down to ike's spacing and sheik's approach. of course, sheik has the option to camp him as well since needles shut down his quick draw and walk up jab approaches.

just watch out for sh nair and full jump fairs/nairs.

this matchup is not that hard really, but i have yet to play a very good ike irl.

 

[iLight]

i lost to bored at the last tourney as sheik, he was good. idk this match up as well as i thought

 

[choknater]

what gave you trouble?

 

[stealth3654]

So, what does everyone think the match-up ratio is?

 

[<π]

yeah a good ike is good. A decent ppresure game with his aerials and their disjointedness can be a problem for an aggressive sheik. and his range and speed on jab is nothing to take lightly, jabs rack up so much damage and can lead into other things as well.

Seriously space well and abuse needles, all of his approaches (which aren't bad) can be wreck by well timed needles. be patient and wait for kill options don't force them, ike can kill so low it isn't worth taking a little bit of damage for [/i]maybes.

You should be winning, but you can't take ike lightly... similar to how you can't take fox lightly..........

 

[East]

I would put this in Ike's favor, but I know, well... no one else would agree. Ike's jab eats through pretty much any hope of an approach, and if you play one that repeatedly cancels the first jab, into another jab you realize making the first attack is not an option. Needles only do so much, until he is close enough to bring the pain. All of his hits hurt, and his jab leads into hits that hurt.

But what do I know, If I could stop sucking, perhaps I'd see that this match-up may not be in Ike's favor, but I think all of you guys underestimate what Ike can do, and in a match, that could be your downfall.

 

[<π]

oh believe me Ike is beastly, I know. his range and damage out puts in the air. and jab alone on the ground make him a really strong character. but slower movement and those same moves make it very easy to punish him just for jumping.

I may be a little off, but sheik should really be the one controlling the pase of the match.

 

[iLight]

i agree, idk specifically why i lost. but i was having a lot of trouble with getting jabbed to grab by him, or jab combos in general. and then he would randomly charge a smash attack and i would die =]

i'd say 60-40 sheik though because you tilt lock him, unless i'm mistaken, which i've been known to be mistaken before

 

[stealth3654]

I also say 60/40 Sheik.

Just like <3 said, make sure not to let Ike control the flow of the match. You can camp with needles, but when Ike gets close get ready for fairs/nairs/jabs and random ftilts (really strong).

I say take Ike to some place like rainbow cruise or japes where he can't recover. Ban battle field where he can pester you with long lasting attacks from underneath platforms.

 

[phi1ny3]

Lucario boards are discussing sheik (pretty much done, actually). If you could give a few pointers from your perspective, that would be appreciated.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8134977#post8134977

 

[choknater]

i hate getting hit by random smashes or ftilt

 

[stealth3654]

So, does everyone agree that the ratio is 60/40 Sheik?

 

[choknater]

ehhh, i honestly have no idea

when i actually PLAY the matchup, i feel its 60-40

but i hear people saying ike has a lot of things that give them trouble, and ike players saying they have an advantage. and i dont have a looot of experience in the matchup myself

i would say 55-45 sheik to make the compromise. thats just me. could even be 50-50

i just think needles make quite a difference and can give sheik the edge

 

[Charoo]

I think the main problem for people who fight against ike is that they think they can punish ike after he done something like fair and nair. When I fought Ike the first time, I would shield the move then run in to attack but he just jab me instantly. I was like dang Ike is too good

So learn what can be punish and such then you can slowly start to beat Ike easily. Dash attack imo is the key in this match up. It's our fastest move from running and cover a lot of range. You can shield a fair and then dash attack them. Also, learn how Ike baits a kill. They either charge smash when u're on the edge or wait for an air dodge to up smash you. Knowing these things u can avoid them successfully. He's also slow so run around him and spam needles to annoy him.

I suggest banning halberd cause I see a lot of Ike go there for some reason. Probably cause of low ceiling and up smash/back air hits on top of platforms. They also seem to like battlefield the most for neutral. FD is good vs him if u play the away game and pretty much any stage that makes him move around is good. Ike usually try to be stationary with jabs and grab so making him move around will help you out.

60-40 Sheik when both players understand the match. If this is Sheik's first time then I can see 60-40 Ike just cause u'll be getting jab a lot and air dodge to his punishment.

on a side note, I go falcon vs Ike anyways. It's like 70-30 Falcon advantage.

 

[choknater]

hahaha good **** champ

i have an amazing replay of falcon vs ike on my wii

 

[<π]

um... yeah when he jumps, every time he jumps you should be getting free damage with needles. Dash attack OOS, too good. That is all

 

[choknater]

um... yeah when he jumps, every time he jumps you should be getting free damage with needles. Dash attack OOS, too good. That is all

lol yea dash attack oos is too good

very good against g&w's smash attacks as well

sheik's one of the only chars who can punish those

if u guys ever have trouble with accidentally fsmashing when u try to do a fast dash attack, heres a tip: use c-stick down

 

[kingcobra9]

wouldn't you have troubles using down smash to much

 

[Charoo]

lol yea dash attack oos is too good

very good against g&w's smash attacks as well

sheik's one of the only chars who can punish those

if u guys ever have trouble with accidentally fsmashing when u try to do a fast dash attack, heres a tip: use c-stick down

fun fact: fox can up smash g&w fsmash after u shield it. Doesn't have to be oos too

 

[<π]

fox usmash is so fast >


tap forward and hit down on the c-stick and you will always dash attack, always. you can buffer the run out of shield or out of other attacks and you always should to take advantage of it'd five frame hit box and amazing range.

Since you can't do a downsmash during your opening run animation you will do a dash attack instead. you can upsmash, you can fsmash so that why the other directions and a and z all equate to one of those attacks and down on the c-stick makes you dash attack...

pretty much any attack on shield you could of hit with ftilt if you weren't out ranged you can hit with dash attack. snake's ftilt and fsmash, gdub's smashes, D3's tilts, gdorf, marth's fsmash tilts and FAIR!! meta's smashes... like seriously. that move is beast I use it constantly to keep presure off out of sheild. it really prevents people from using their "get aways" and pokes.
Wolf can do the same thing with fsmash though except better.

 

[stealth3654]

Does anyone have anything else to add to the Ike vs Sheik match-up?

 

[choknater]

stealth, not really

let's do someone fun next!! someone underused

 

[<π]

jigglypuff!

 

[choknater]

hm i like that

 

[stealth3654]

Alright then. Our next character will be Jigglypuff!

Discuss!!!

 

[choknater]

hmmmm haha shes actually kinda tough to fight, i dont really know any specifics, i just play like a normal sheik and i win

similar to wario, u cant just rush in and attack, but u outrange her with bairs so just think of those to fight

her fairs are good so watch out and be patient

stop rollout with needles, dont underestimate rollout!

 

[-Mars-]

rollout sucks, the only time i ever see jigglypuff mains use it is to recover every once in a while as a mixup.

 

[stealth3654]

jiggles can dair > rest, which will kill you very early. She can also WoP Sheik pretty well. You have projectiles and Jiggles is light. 55/45 Sheik?

 

[SuSa]

Dair > rest is not reliable. Staled uairs (x5 stale), then uair > uair > rest is more viable... lol

Her biggest thing is being able to float around, and poke at you. She can gimp you rather well, as well as juggle you to oblivion. She can actually avoid your kill moves rather easily.

You can't really ftilt lock her a ton due to her floatiness, and she is more mobile then you in the air. You just don't have as many options against her as usual.

She - however - has issues with Zelda. (Or at least my Jigglypuff has problems with Zelda) and I'd suggest going Zelda for this match.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

a good jiggz will airdodge into the ground a lot so set up a good grab game.
jiggz actually has some good tilts and although only a few jiggz use them, the ones that do have good follows.
if jiggz goes for the fair don't roll and downsmash, she can bair immediatly afterwards

 

[Thinkaman]

a good jiggz will airdodge into the ground a lot so set up a good grab game.

Huh?

jiggz actually has some good tilts

...what?

and although only a few jiggz use them, the ones that do have good follows.

.....buh-wuh?

if jiggz goes for the fair don't roll and downsmash, she can bair immediatly afterwards

Ok, now I'm just totally confused.

But seriously, SuSa nailed this one. F-tilt sucks, uair is your friend, needles are pretty useful. Most importantly, switch to Zelda and bring down the house.

 

[<π]

rollout is SO~ underrated. if you knock someone down and start roll out, they are dead. You don't have to go any where near fully charged for the move to become a powerful horizontal kill. In fact... it always has that same kill potential.

drill rest is not reliable because of smash DI, fortunately you can read the DI and vissually check if it possible before executing the rest. Another strong option out of drill is dash attack which is a true combo and has really good kill potential and will at the very least set up for a low angled edge guard. plus you always have the grab/smash attack/ jab rock paper sissors game. in the match up even if you do fail you won't be punished too hard.

^
Yeah...

Um... jiggs is much more mobile in the air than sheik and can use that to pick and choose when to attacks and amazing grab game really helps out Mr. Jiggles in this match up to, it helps rack damage and get sheik up in the air a bad spot for sheik.

It's not all bad for sheik though. needles are really good on whiffed aerials, you can keep up pressure with bair pretty well. You really have to be on top of your game and make good choices since you can't ftilt to keep up pressure. combo's are difficult, rest is always in the back of your mind as an inturupt to any of your follow ups, and even on whiff you can't punish them well...

I think versus Zelda is in Jiggy's favor. but she does have an easier time landing successful kills and she can punish rest with kill moves instead of a 10% -18% slap on the wrist.

 

[choknater]

i would advise using both sheik and zelda in this matchup, zelda can kill jiggly at like 60~80 if you can actually connect a ko move

yea

if u can actually connect it

but its very possible