Sheik Video & Video Critique Thread

[Dcold]

Yeah but going to NJ is like, a hassle and costs so much mannnnnnnnn >_>

I know I'd learn something from it, but still undecided. Would love to meet Ed though.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I love meeting all the other Sheiks! Also, you can learn how dumb I play in person!

 

[Dcold]

Trust me, I do some really dumb things like vanishing onto the stage when the ledge is free to tether to, among many other things like jumping into Nairs from Snake, or trying to beat Marth's range, or thinking I can beat Olimar's Upsmash.

Trust me. I do worse things lmao.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Aisight will tell you, I'm the master of running into death and knowing it lol. It's quite entertaining.

Meeting tutu was fun and then seeing him again at the last Apex was pretty swell.

 

[DLA]

reposting in this thread for critique.

Forgot to post it sooner, but I got 9th out of 36 at Don't Blink 2012 last weekend. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=322437

I used mostly Sheik believe it or not...mainly because I had to fight 3 Diddy Kongs in a row in Losers. 2-0'd Zwarm, 2-1'd JJRockets (who's ranked 4th in IL/WI, one spot above me), then lost 0-2 to Zinoto.

Against JJ, I beat him game 1 with Sheik, and lost game 2 when I lost focus after the 2nd stock. You can kinda see me crash and burn during my 3rd stock in the video below lol...Sheik vs Diddy is exhausting. I felt like I wouldn't be able to focus long enough to use Sheik in game 3, so I decided to go MK in game 3, which I won.


Then I tried going Sheik against Zinoto game 1 next round, but a combination of me being burned out and Zinoto having lots of Tutu practice led to him kinda wrecking me (not to mention he's a good player). Then I took him to last hit with MK game 2 but still lost.


Anyways some videos:

Vs. Zwarm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DYk0I0R808
(Quality is pretty awful because my laptop ****ed up the recording...if you don't want to watch the whole thing then at least watch the first stock of game 2, it was pretty sick)

Vs. JJrockets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZkc_xEYYCg
(better quality; I won game 1 which wasn't recorded)


Honestly I'm not unhappy with how my Sheik did, considering it's the first tournament I've used her in...but I'm definitely not satisfied. I'll see if I can get some better videos for next time.

 

[Dcold]

The only thing I could see from the JJ match, was that you barely used needles o_o. I try not to be so aggressive so I can't really comment about that to each his own, but needles can really help in this MU. Since you can use B moves while holding a nanner, it gives a lot of control, plus you can throw the banana->full needle storm/DACUS. Plus needles are our only projectile and vs Diddy I'd say we could use some lol. I'm far from the best at this MU, Tutu would probably be the most help critiquing these videos as he trades sets with Zinoto . (Datnamesearch)

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I've never lost a set to zinoto. But if we played now I'd probably lose.

I think DLA knows more about fighting diddy than I do, from what I watched lol.

 

[DLA]

Haha Diddy's one of my worst MUs. I just happen to suck at it less with Sheik than with most of my other characters.

Even my MK is complete ayuss at the matchup...I always feel so scummy when I win the MU with MK because the only way I can win is when I rely on MK's bull**** to approach. I don't feel THAT bad though because Diddy's entire game is complete bull**** anyways lol. What a poorly designed character.

 

[-Mars-]

I like DLA's use of nair in the Diddy MU a lot. I'm gonna steal that.

 

[Dcold]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkiWQE_8LcI Wifi ladder match vs Gonzalo Zero/former vVv Zero (from Chile)

Wasn't even that laggy, just a tiny bit of button lag, as you'll see by some of the things I do lol. Critiques please. -Reposted from Social Thread.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Another set loss to Kyon...... I can still play better, but I post these for critique because it's always nice for another perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1hZ9GivXnE&list=UUpWV1TrJ29Y9cbJu_LpsTZw&index=6&feature=plcp (1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAZ619p7IF4&list=UUpWV1TrJ29Y9cbJu_LpsTZw&index=5&feature=plcp (2)

Also, great stuff Dcold, perhaps I will look at the WiFi thingy.

 

[Dcold]

Kyon makes Peach look incredibly fast, as do you with Sheik Ed. Seeing how fast Peach's moves are, it really stresses the importance of needles imo. I see that when he uses a move that wiffs, you go in to punish and get jabbed in the face, or something else. Instead you can just get a free 15%+ from needles, just like when Peach is floating (and not at kill percents, because that's a DACUS right there), she has to land, so you can punish her landings with needles since her jab is Frame 2 I believe, which is fast af. Force Peach to approach by using needles, and forcing her to throw turnips unsafely, then is your chance to get in, and when you do, do a LOT of damage. This MU is sort of like a hunt, just keep calm and punish her mistakes safely (I LOVE NEEDLES), and when the time is right go honey baked.

Won't be easy, Kyon is a monster...

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Thanks man, I love needles as well but I haven't put much into Sheik lately because of Zelda taking all the reps for teams practice. That changes this week so you guys will be seeing better from me. I guarantee it.

 

[Dcold]

That determination! I've a tournament this weekend, so I'll be sure to get some good recordings. Possibly more wifi ladder matches before Saturday, it's good practice man.

 

[DLA]

Dcold - The biggest thing I noticed was that you were rolling way too much. Gonzalo wasn't punishing you a lot for it--I'm guessing because of wifi--but it's definitely a general gameplay thing you might want to work on. Other than that I really like some of the kills you got. Also you were really effective with needles--this is probably one of the matchups where needle camping is very important, regardless of playstyle. Rushing down MK really doen't work very well.


Ed - I was impressed watching this set. Honestly I thought you outplayed Kyon...if you take out one factor. You kept getting hit by stuff you really shouldn't have. Honestly it looked to me like half of the damage you took was because you didn't expect to get hit by that particular move. And the rest of the damage was from you trying to challenge one of his aerials and losing.

Taking damage by losing challenges is to be expected...you can't win them all. But it looked like you kept getting hit by stuff like random Fsmashes, falling Bairs while you were standing around and not shielding or anything. You lost your whole first stock game 2 because you just kept letting yourself get hit by stuff.

Honestly it looks like you just need more MU experience against Peach. Learn to better anticipate which moves she's going to use, and when. Try shielding a lot more when you're on the ground...shield is very effective in this MU because Peach's grab is very mediocre.

Also I gotta say your offense is amazing...you consistently made very good choices as far as reading your opponent and getting KOs. Your sheik looks a lot like how I want my sheik too look. Just stop getting hit by so many of Peach's shenanigans and I have a feeling you'll start beating Kyon.

 

[Zankoku]

Ed is kinda the guy who'll look amazing until he realizes he's falling straight into a charged smash and yell "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO".


It's kinda unfortunate.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Hahahahaha!!! You're so right. Glad you remember.

@DLA: It really isn;t lack to experience so to speak because I've run into Kyon for the past 5 or 6 tourneys I believe. I do agree that I'm getting hit by way too many things I shouldn't so I'll keep that in mind when I study the footage. Kyon is so crazy with shield pressure that he kind of forces you into easy mistakes since he's really good at taking away options. Glad you like the offense lol.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

You guys will be surprised just how well peach can keep shiek at the ledge. And her air moves can beat out dacus.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

It's so dumb!!!!

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

To be honest what I think is that we play often to the point that we know each other well. I just think I can change the way I play depending on your game play better than you can atm. Something like that, the second match showed me that abit

 

[-Mars-]

Peach just beats Sheik. She's kinda like Kirby in that she sits in wierd angles in the air almost in like blindspots where Sheik can't do much to her. Her aerials are too good for us to really hit her much either and it's hard to punish her landings because she never lands.

You've gotta powershield a lot to beat Peach.

 

[DLA]

Well I'm not saying that you don't HAVE peach experience... what I'm saying is that if you want to fix the problems you're having, the best thing to do is get MORE peach exp, yadigg?

Honestly my biggest suggestion is to use more shield. A lot of people get discouraged from using shield against Peach because if she spaces her aerials right, you won't be able to punish her OoS. The thing is, if Peach properly attacks your shield, it's probably just going to be a reset--assuming you're not dumb and you don't try to punish something OoS that you can't. But a reset isn't a bad thing--shielding Peach's aerials is actually very low risk for you, especially if you know how to tilt your shield properly so you don't get shield poked. And if Peach makes a punishable mistake, such as misspacing an aerial or whiffing her jabs after she lands with an Fair, it's usually quite possible to punish her, which can lead to some really nasty things for her, especially if she's already used her float.

As much as I'd like to be able to challenge Peach in the air, it's usually going to be hard for Sheik. Peach's aerials are pretty ridiculous compared to Sheik's. Staying grounded and shielding against Peach will usually be more effective, in my experience.

Then again I got all of this from my Ganon vs Peach experience (which is actually one of my favorite MUs in the game), so I may be wrong... but I'm pretty sure it's the same theory, but just harder for Ganon.

 

[Zankoku]

A proper balance of shield use is definitely the way to approach any matchup against Peach, but it's really difficult to make sure you're not using it too much or too little.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@DLA: Alrighty, I see what you mean. I'll certainly try this approach.

@Kyon: You're probably right...That and you've been incredibly on point when we've played lately. I'm going to up my game for sure and hopefully I'll be able to make better adjustments. Comeback Zelda wasn't a bad adjustment though lol.

@Ankoku: I agree, it's also hard to decide when to mix in a spotdodge since I feel like her moves have misleading duration. They last for so long it seems so if shield is running low, it's hard to decide what to do. I think that's where some of my mistakes could becoming from.

I could just be thinking too much in the end lol.

 

[Dcold]

Her jab is deceptively fast. Peach's shield pressure is kinda amazing, she's one of those characters where I've realized, you don't have to try to punish everything that she does. Easier to throw needles instead, or just wait for a better opportunity. Maaaaaaaaaaybe after she dairs, you can uptilt, but seriously, when you're in there (and I don't have to tell you), you've got to make the most of it. Your offense is really solid, and you execute it probably the fastest I've like ever seen, it's crazy lol.

I wouldn't say Peach is as hard as Kirby, like come on O_O.

Thanks for the input DLA, I feel the same about my rolling. I was kinda nervous because I was playing him. Was kinda intimidating, even on wifi lol. Game 3 I kinda facepalmed at the beginning with some hard (and somewhat stupid) logic. He won't expect me to DI the same way 4 times in a row, AND get up the same way. I was wrong >_>

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I would think shiek Kirby was even.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Sheik Kirby is not that bad at all.

 

[Dcold]

There are like 4 Kirby players that go to the tournaments around here, it's not terrible, but it's annoying as hell...

 

[-Mars-]

Solid advantage for Kirby imo. Course there's not a plethora of amazing Kirby players out there so it really doesn't matter too muchbut just ask Judo how much this matchup sux against YbM.

 

[DLA]

Not a big fan of the Sheik vs Kirby MU but I definitely wouldn't put it at -3.

 

[Orion*]

Honestly my biggest suggestion is to use more shield. A lot of people get discouraged from using shield against Peach because if she spaces her aerials right, you won't be able to punish her OoS. The thing is, if Peach properly attacks your shield, it's probably just going to be a reset--assuming you're not dumb and you don't try to punish something OoS that you can't. But a reset isn't a bad thing--shielding Peach's aerials is actually very low risk for you, especially if you know how to tilt your shield properly so you don't get shield poked. And if Peach makes a punishable mistake, such as misspacing an aerial or whiffing her jabs after she lands with an Fair, it's usually quite possible to punish her, which can lead to some really nasty things for her, especially if she's already used her float.

I don't like to rely on my opponents messing up. If it's tournament, and you notice it, take advantage and punish that ish if it will get you the win.... but "hoping" peach doesnt space properly doesn't sound like it will get consistent wins.

I understand that the in your mind your saying the worst case scenario is a reset. But I honestly disagree with that... Peach has Great shield pressure and mixups on sheik, and i'm 100% confident that a good one will take full advantage of that. Shield is better as a last resort here than a go to, because giving the opponent momentum with no safe options out of the situation seems poor to me.

I've had the most success when dealing with peaches float/airgame by mostly just baiting, or pre emptively stuffing the float with a safe fair (the only thing they can really beat this with if you do it right is nair. not 100% confident if it even outspaces perfect fair, but many times it tends to trade also, regardless you dont want that anyway).

it's fairly yomi oriented in the end but i like going for 50/50s than hoping my opponent fuucks up uunless i know they are bad.

A proper balance of shield use is definitely the way to approach any matchup against Peach, but it's really difficult to make sure you're not using it too much or too little.

pretty much this

Solid advantage for Kirby imo. Course there's not a plethora of amazing Kirby players out there so it really doesn't matter too muchbut just ask Judo how much this matchup sux against YbM.

this

Not a big fan of the Sheik vs Kirby MU but I definitely wouldn't put it at -3.

na, you're right. -1 maybe -2

 

[DLA]

I don't like to rely on my opponents messing up. If it's tournament, and you notice it, take advantage and punish that ish if it will get you the win.... but "hoping" peach doesnt space properly doesn't sound like it will get consistent wins.

I understand that the in your mind your saying the worst case scenario is a reset. But I honestly disagree with that... Peach has Great shield pressure and mixups on sheik, and i'm 100% confident that a good one will take full advantage of that. Shield is better as a last resort here than a go to, because giving the opponent momentum with no safe options out of the situation seems poor to me.

I've had the most success when dealing with peaches float/airgame by mostly just baiting, or pre emptively stuffing the float with a safe fair (the only thing they can really beat this with if you do it right is nair. not 100% confident if it even outspaces perfect fair, but many times it tends to trade also, regardless you dont want that anyway).

it's fairly yomi oriented in the end but i like going for 50/50s than hoping my opponent fuucks up uunless i know they are bad.

Honestly I don't have a lot of Sheik vs. Peach experience, so I was giving more general advice against Peach rather than character-specific advice. Keep in mind that I learned how to fight Peach mainly with Ganondorf, a character with probably the worst OoS options in the game--the thing is, I still do very well against top level Peaches, despite the obscene shield pressure Peach can put on Ganon.

I'm not gonna keep rambling about Ganon because I doubt any of you care haha...but the one thing I've learned from that MU is that Peach's shield pressure looks scary, but if you keep your shield up then nothing should actually happen to you. If your shield is getting low, or if you think she is going to go for a grab mixup, just roll backwards. She's too slow to punish your back roll, and if she whiffs an attack such as a grab, you may even be able to punish her depending on how fast your roll is. And even if you can't, the Peach isn't in a great position because she needs to float again if she wants to be relatively safe. If she tries to float again (especially against a fast character like Sheik), there's a good chance she'll either get stuffed before she throws out an aerial, or misspace the aerial and get punished for it. Really, the most she'll have time to do is to shield, or maybe throw out jabs or something.


I actually feel a bit hypocritical typing this because I'm personally a fan of putting huge shield pressure on my opponent, especially with characters like Sheik and Falco. But in Brawl, you need to realize that relying on shield pressure and shield mixups is really risky, because frame advantages are very small in this game.

 

[Dcold]

Pretty much what DLA said, but you can punish her wiffs or her retreat after shield pressure with needles, and if it hits shield you're a safe distance away rather than running in and getting jabbed in the face lol.

 

[DLA]

Lol yeah that works too. I always forget about the needles >.>

 

[Judo777]

Pretty much what DLA said, but you can punish her wiffs or her retreat after shield pressure with needles, and if it hits shield you're a safe distance away rather than running in and getting jabbed in the face lol.

her jabs arent very unsafe on shield. So if you don't get away she can do dair, nair jab jab or mix up a grab i dont like 50 50s like that.

 

[MeekSpeedy]

lol dcold ***** me online, I played like such a ****** that whole day though.

 

[Dcold]

We all have our bad days, the next day I literally lost like 6 straight matches because I was just in a terrible slump lmao.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I don't believe in slumps, I believe in johns.

 

[Dcold]

My johns was I lost to someone I should have beat (the same person that Meek lost to before me that made him slump that day lol), then I just played in rage mode.

 

[-Mars-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i9TwVAbF0g vs. SK92 (MK)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI-fDYcR6XU vs. Twinx (MK/Ness)

Thanks to Aisight for the upload!