Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Dogysamich]

Boostgrab/dashgrab, if it goes through that animation and you space it perfectly, kirby can duck it. I need to go back and check to see if he can d.o.r. dashgrab at all ranges (cause I almost get the feeling he can)

__

As for the turn around needle thing. Dammit I was hoping for some kinda pivot I wasnt thinkin about.

I appreciate the answer, though.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kirby's duck is lower than Puff's. So you can't grab his duck unless you do needles or something prior to the grab. If Puff can duck Sheik grabs with her initial duck, Kirby definitely can.

For Kirby vs Sheik in general, I feel Kirby has a poor containment game. He's bad at sticking to Sheik because he needs to predict movement really heavily to hit them when they try to go over him because of how slow he is in the air. But that necessitates him being airborne, which is bad because Sheik has the ability to nom nom nom his Bair, which is his only real priority aerial.

He edgeguards her okay. Swallow --> jump off if she does that vanish edge stuff is pretty funny. F-smash isn't exactly horrible for knocking her off either, and neither is Uair or Bair. But I don't like that Sheik can be like "lol jump height" and double jump all the way to the top of a Dreamland platform, waveland away from him faster than his jumps will take him, and then be in relative safety again.

 

[soap]

u cant pivot neutral b moves. I dont know why.

 

[Teczer0]

Man I need to be a peach/jiggs main.

10mangolands

 

[SPAWN]

**** would've been so crazy if Armada beat Mango.

One of these days another KDJ will pop up out of nowhere and **** everyone with Sheik.

 

[Teczer0]

Jman to me is the new KDJ, *shrugs*

Doesn't play sheik but his fox is a freakin monster, I'd never wanna deal with him.

A shame he lost to Pikachu, not sure which one.

<33333 Jman

 

[soap]

jman does kinda remind me of kdj.

very aggresive, but not as smart as dj.

 

[Teczer0]

jman does kinda remind me of kdj.

very aggresive, but not as smart as dj.

Yea I agree, I also think KDJ wasn't nearly as technical as Jman.

I think a big thing about KDJ is his crazy unpredictability factor. He just does some insane thing you would never even consider.

I saw him do a TRIPLE sidestep against Ken and got a dthrow cuz of it.

Try that **** to any average player and you'd probably get grabbed LOL.

 

[Cia]

Jman to me is the new KDJ, *shrugs*

Doesn't play sheik but his fox is a freakin monster, I'd never wanna deal with him.

A shame he lost to Pikachu, not sure which one.

<33333 Jman

Jman lost to Axe. someone stole his controller and apparently, his fox blew after that

oh, and jman has a serious sheik. he's beaten me in dittos before too. he just doesn't use much in tournament. (why would he need to? lol)

 

[Teczer0]

Jman lost to Axe. someone stole his controller and apparently, his fox blew after that

oh, and jman has a serious sheik. he's beaten me in dittos before too. he just doesn't use much in tournament. (why would he need to? lol)

LOL

Yea Jesus has a disgusting sheik, I'm pretty sure his sheik is like levels above mine .

And I dunno to me if you don't ever use a character in tourney thats to me as good as not maining them.

Like no one considers me a marth main/second, I never use marth

 

[Cia]

I consider you a Marth main because it's gay as balls. And as good as I am against Marth, your Marth probably gives ME more trouble than any of your other characters. So as long as I say he's your main, that's all that matters.

yo

 

[SPAWN]

Tec0 doesn't main marth. Spawn says. *lays down law*

<3 Haley

 

[soap]

ive seen vids

i like the tec marth.

 

[raychun1]

someone really needs to post about the ice climbers matchup. the vids online are all inconsistent. i feel like chudat doesn't do nearly as much gay stuff to sheik as he could, which is a good thing but i have no idea what to avoid.

can anyone list the kinds of chain grabs ic's have on sheik? isn't it just d-throw-repeat? can ic's do the d-air one?

are the grabs the only bad part of the matchup?

what is the realistic percentage? not the theoretical one, but is it even? ****?

 

[KirbyKaze]

cgs they can do:

d-throw d-smash
d-throw sh dair
d-throw --> wobble / f-smash

it's like 55/45 - 60/40 for sheik or something like that, she doesn't have an effective way of splitting them up forever, or marth/samus/ganon/fox/peach/falco/falcon's ridiculous moves that destroy nana entirely when they do get split up.

i've never played a top level ics except half a friendly with wobbles at pound 3 when i was much worse. but from him and lesser ics, i think it's mostly just spacing fair and/or bair on them and doing anything that won't get you grabbed or d-smashed basically. because if you get hit offstage they will edgehog and then do d-throw cg --> wobble and you will auto-die. or they'll just d-smash you back off until you die. or do a grab combo.

camping with needles is fine but not super necessary; you'll get punished if you do it for too long too obviously or if they're just smart.

limit your tilts and d-smashes (d-smash is obviously acceptable if it will hit them offstage) because if they cc a tilt they can cc dash grab you and there's nothing you can do about it even at perfect spacing because ics are homo like that sometimes.

space dash attack to get really, really far behind them or don't do it at all. or make sure it hits them or something idk.

chu doesn't play gay because idk. everyone tries to gay the balls off him, i don't know why he doesn't wobble, learn the more complex dumb punishes wobbles does, or do proper chain grabs or anything like that. i guess he's lazy or figures it's not worth the effort or it's not fun or something. idk chu is weird.

 

[raychun1]

wow, my strat is almost completely the opposite. i d-tilt a lot, f-tilt an ok amount, and i try to avoid aerial spacing. the problem i found with aerial spacing is that sheik's jump is just too high. ic's will just get under you too quickly. you need really good reaction timing to avoid a lot of those hits. i d-smash a lot too, it seperates them as well as any d-smash in the game.

i used to think the f-air pressure game was the best way to attack, but it looks soooooo predictable. at genesis, i saw sheiks try to f-air constantly and they looked ridiculously predictable.

mew2king needs to come up in here and explain the matchup. apparently he thinks it's a myth that ic's counter sheik.

edit: i respect chu's playstyle a lot. although you have to wonder why no other ic's are even close to his level, except for the big-roy-trail

 

[KirbyKaze]

*shrug*

idk what to tell you, it's just my opinion

if spaced tilts work for you then yay

but i find i get cc grab ***** and i try to refrain from doing stuff that gets me grab ***** D:

 

[raychun1]

naw, you're probably right. i think it also has to do with the fact i have no idea what the matchup is really like. i don't play ic's enough and i probably underrate them.

i've tried using fox, marth, peach, falco and i get grab-***** regardless. i don't know the matchup and the ic's i usually play know the opposite side of the matchup pretty well.

 

[pockyD]

how are you getting grab-***** with peach

 

[KirbyKaze]

yeah srsly

fc aerials and d-smash defeats them as a character altogether lol

 

[Cia]

^ ICz' de-sync nana blizzard + Fsmash eliminates like.. 95% of Peach's approach. (5% being toad.. lolz)

ICz v Peach is not THAT bad! maybe next time Teco and I record, we'll do some ICz v Peach. (Not saying I'd win, because i most likely won't, but i doubt i'll get Mega ***** )

 

[pockyD]

peach doesn't need to approach though; she easily outcamps -_-

edit: i forgot this is actually the sheik forum, not the ic or peach, so for sheik vs IC, make sure to keep your spacing (obviously), and if IC are directly under you, run away immediately since you can't do anything

and if you use dsmashes, make sure to buffer actions out of them

 

[KirbyKaze]

Alternatively you could just float at a height where neither of those moves will hit you and wait for their stuff to end, if they're defending themselves with desynched moves. They're not exactly mobile when they do that stuff. Granted neither is Peach, but her float back / forward speed is definitely faster than the ICs' walking speed.

 

[raychun1]

i think ic's are a sheik counter, but i'm going to try to get more experience. i'm starting to think ic's are the most lopsided character(s) in the game. i used to think puff was the most lopsided, but i don't think any character "*****" puff and i don't think puff is a "counter" to anyone.

buffering moves is a clever idea. i completely forgot about doing that during the d-smash

 

[SonuvaBeach]

wow, my strat is almost completely the opposite. i d-tilt a lot, f-tilt an ok amount, and i try to avoid aerial spacing. the problem i found with aerial spacing is that sheik's jump is just too high. ic's will just get under you too quickly. you need really good reaction timing to avoid a lot of those hits. i d-smash a lot too, it seperates them as well as any d-smash in the game.

i used to think the f-air pressure game was the best way to attack, but it looks soooooo predictable. at genesis, i saw sheiks try to f-air constantly and they looked ridiculously predictable.

mew2king needs to come up in here and explain the matchup. apparently he thinks it's a myth that ic's counter sheik.

edit: i respect chu's playstyle a lot. although you have to wonder why no other ic's are even close to his level, except for the big-roy-trail

I was about to say - sounds like you are saying basically exactly what Roy says about the matchup. Trail's IC's are pretty sick, but I haven't got to play them enough yet as he tends to use Marth and Ganon more since he has no need to bust out his main.

That'll change this year though and I'll post my findings as a learn the match up against him in a month

The couple times I played him he was slightly tipsy, and sandbagging hard probably (wasn't CGing me that hard at all). I managed to only get 2 stocked. I did learn quickly though about abusing dsmash. Use it when you space badly and are right on top and know it will hit, otherwise it is WD OoS -> free grab. Tilts do work well when used and spaced properly. At the time my needles were almost non existent, so I have little to say about that.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fox ***** Puff.

Ics are just ********. If you realize that Nana is ******** and kill her a lot for being ********, it gets easier, but Sheik doesn't have insta-split moves like Shine, Peach D-smash, Knee, or a ridiculous Nana-gimp like Shine, Peach as an offensive move, Ganon's entire moveset, Marth's entire moveset, Samus missiles, etc.

I call it at 55/45 Sheik favour but I understand why someone would think they win. Their punishment is far and away superior to Sheik's in the matchup. I feel Sheik has pretty much everything else (better range, arguably better movement, and better projectile) but punishment is indisputably a good one to have.

 

[Teczer0]

^ ICz' de-sync nana blizzard + Fsmash eliminates like.. 95% of Peach's approach. (5% being toad.. lolz)

ICz v Peach is not THAT bad! maybe next time Teco and I record, we'll do some ICz v Peach. (Not saying I'd win, because i most likely won't, but i doubt i'll get Mega ***** )

Way to record vs garbage peaches to make your case .

I can't believe this thread was active while I was gone at Otakon!

Nvm you guys suck, you never post when I'm actually here. =(

I see the conspiracy T_T

 

[SPAWN]

I <3 Haley.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I see the conspiracy T_T

**** he's onto us.

 

[soap]

ics can get under your fair if u r approaching with them.

jump back and camp with them. can't get under those so easily

 

[Banks]

i have the best sheik ever whats up guys

 

[SonuvaBeach]

i have the best sheik ever whats up guys

Impossible - you got brawl codes under your name.

 

[soap]

i went all marth in bracket last weekend.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

i went all marth in bracket last weekend.

Oh no.

How'd that turn out? Seeing as I second and used to main marth....but <3 Sheik.

 

[Banks]

Impossible - you got brawl codes under your name.

i put as many things on my sidebar as possible to make it massive, i don't even have any of those messengers aside from AIM either

 

[Teczer0]

i have the best sheik ever whats up guys

Its true, at CT Banks 4 stocked me in 80 sheik dittos =(

m2k only 2-3 stock me in sheik dittos =[

 

[Banks]

that's why they call me tec-negative1

 

[Teczer0]

that's why they call me tec-negative1

=(.

Its cuz I freeze up cuz you're too famous

EDIT: Can someone PLEASE.

Explain to me HOW the chain works.

People have essays on the usefulness of Luigi's taunt spike but no one can give me an explanation of SHEIK'S CHAIN AODSFJSDFALKSDFJKSDJF

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's a bunch of hitboxes arranged in a line.

They're not connected. Like a constellation or dotted line.

The hitbox at the tip does the electric damage and 3-5%. The rest of it does 1-3% and is weak as ****.

It seems to be useful for hitting really slow characters out of aerials when they're approaching you high in the air (Ganon, for instance).

And you can do wall tricks.

Gimping almost everything is better but you can probably do it to space animals if you can trap them under the stage or some ****.

 

[Teczer0]

So how do you control it KK?