Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[edgeluca]

<3 Teczero

 

[KirbyKaze]

i ****ing hate ICG

 

[edgeluca]

Really? Howcome?

 

[john!]

i agree with kk, the invisible ceiling glitch has screwed me over more times than i care to remember

 

[soap]

lololol.

Insane Carzy Glitch

 

[KirbyKaze]

ICG made me hate Roy dittos.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Why did InsaneCarzyGuy never pick Sheik or Luigi?

Because they weren't banned.

 

[edgeluca]

Rofl
Wtf is up here

 

[CommonerCoffee]

Anyone got tips on edgeguarding link?

Actually, any tips on the matchup in general would be much appreciated.

 

[soap]

edgeguard with ledge invincibility. grab the edge, ledghop nair thru his up b. throw needles when he hookshots.

on stage. grab him and combo but don't be too eager to get grabs. space naturally and grabs will come

 

[gm jack]

If he's going for a bomb recovery, angled needles can often ruin it.

If he looks like he's going to hookshot, put a bair/nair between him and the wall, so if he goes for it, he get hit back out.

Fall or ledgehop nairs onto the upB.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Anyone got tips on edgeguarding link?

Actually, any tips on the matchup in general would be much appreciated.

Learn how to wavedash out of shield. It helps you get around projectiles much better.

 

[Zoler]

Sooo I suck vs samus, like really bad. My horrible falco and falcon does better rofl...

Also I play in PAL, so downthrow never comboes to anything, except dash attack at pretty low percentages, but I'm pretty sure she can always trade it with a nair.... :S

 

[KirbyKaze]

Samus vs. Sheik without the broken d-throw combo sounds so horribly boring.

Space Fair. Forever.

Throw crap if she's trying to camp from far away.

I'm wondering if you should be WDing OOS > D-smash instead of grab at mid percents and higher because of no throw combo. Can you D-throw > needles or anything screwy like that? Ughhhh floaty vs. Sheik in PAL sounds so dreadful.

 

[gm jack]

I find grab tends to be safer because it avoids getting CC -> Dsmash -> edgeguarded. Even if it doesn't have a guaranteed follow up, you get ok damage, and put them above you (low percents Uthrow, high percents Dthrow as well), where samus is going to struggle getting down from. Like all low tiers vs sheik without a CG, it's just a lot of playing the "my character is better than yours in every way" game, and avoiding their little tricks.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I find grab tends to be safer because it avoids getting CC -> Dsmash -> edgeguarded.

This is why I specified mid to high percent. So they'd be out of range to cc your D-smash back.

 

[Zoler]

Space fair forever is kinda what I do and it's pretty easy that way XD then I get bored and try to dash attack / random stuff and get dsmashed and edgeguarded lol

I wish they didn't nerf the grab XD

 

[KirbyKaze]

Bair is good when she's trying to come down.

 

[DualCats]

One of the biggest obstacles I had with this match-up when I was newer to the game was not falling for Samus' wavedash/waveland mindgames. I can't really offer a lot of advice there other than be very mindful of how you're approaching and be skeptical if the Samus does anything that seems too obvious. If that makes any sense.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Unrelated to Samus discussion... just a random tip vs Fox.

When you get drillshine u-smashed by Fox at low percents and DI away, you can avoid not having to tech by wiggling. Lots of Foxes wait for the tech so you can surprise them by landing on your feet and then just working from there. If they try to u-smash again you can block > wd oos > punish, if they wait for a roll that never happens you get out of the combo for free.

It's really good.

Sometimes you don't have enough time to attack or whatever to protect yourself (or you just won't want to attack 'cuz it lags you up) so this is a really good alternative and you should use it.

 

[nicaboy]

Hmm intresting imma have to mess with that.

 

[Ministry]

Vs fox. Alot of foxes when they overshoot there nairs or arieals on your sheild and land behind u. they like to pivot and come in for a grab. Try wavedashing oos after they land right behind you. It helps you escape that crossup

 

[KirbyKaze]

If Fox is going to overshoot an early aerial

What Linguini does is he just turns around and shield grabs after they pass through him

And it works a lot because it's an early aerial

Nurgle

 

[soap]

If Fox is going to overshoot an early aerial

What Linguini does is he just turns around and shield grabs after they pass through him

And it works a lot because it's an early aerial

Nurgle

i wanna try this.

 

[DJRome]

kk, how does that work? don't they space it so that you can't sg? or if they see u turning around they just hit you by ff earlier?

 

[soap]

late aerial shine u cant grab anyway.

its the early rising ones that they crossover with that this would help against

 

[lord karn]

So I just re-picked up sheik after maining fox for like two years. It's all going well, but I can't seem to figure out how to play on stages where my short hop lands on platforms, like Yoshi's and PS. Any tips?

 

[KirbyKaze]

on pokemon you can hold down to keep yourself from landing on them. if you do dair as early as possible (or close) you can dair under them too, which has some fun combo applications that aren't in my videos yet so be the first to use shffl dairs beneath pokemon platforms to link to fair and wow your friends.

on yoshi's you just tilt more (u-tilt *****) and try to play in the middle if possible; you can also use them to edegcancel aerials if you're moving from the ledge > middle, which is also kind of cool sometimes.

 

[Zoler]

Ok, I got a hang of the Samus matchup now.

Grab, which leads to techchasing, I stoped trying to dashattack the samus after the downthrow and waited instead lol, Samus is pretty easy to techchase LMAO

Also I used your advices Kirbykaze of spacing lots of fair and bair when their in the air, works wonderful!

I feel I understand this matchup now except one thing probably, is it possible to edgeguard Samus when she does her up-B? When that happens I just needle her over and over but she keeps sweetspotting I think? Is there anything else to do? (except getting a cleaner edgeguard from the beginning and not letting her get to that position)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Keep needling and see if they're willing to do an imperfect Up+B so you can D-smash it, or try to grab the edge after the needles when you get used to the timing. You may need to inch towards the edge a bit if you're going to try for the edge.

edit:

Tech chasing Samus. That's something I never thought I'd hear (in the context of Sheik).

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Never thought I'd hear about that, too. Generally when I'm following up from grabs, I just try and predict where the Samus player is going to DI and follow it up with a slap (if I feel that I'm fast enough on reaction time to get away with it) or I wait a bit (possibly baiting an attack, like n-air) and then react. I will admit that I'm not all that comfortable with giving Samus enough room in any given situation to throw out attacks willy-nilly, so I pretty much stay on top of her the whole match.

(Which explains why I get ***** by screw attack so damn much. I'll get it eventually.)

Does an "imperfect" Screw Attack trade with Sheik's d-smash consistently, KK? Not that I'm saying it it isn't worth it if it means a stock; purely academic on my part.

Edit: Or you could mean towards the end of the animation when Samus is vulnerable.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Cosmo!]

is it always possible to hit a falcon-upB with sheik's standing needle & Dsmash? or can they barely get low enough to avoid those 2 moves?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

is it always possible to hit a falcon-upB with sheik's standing needle & Dsmash? or can they barely get low enough to avoid those 2 moves?

>_>

I'm not (as cute as) KK, but I can say confidently: Yes, it is possible to hit them with those moves consistently. Only if they're ********.

To be fair, you have a better chance of hitting them with d-smash than with standing needles when they are coming in low. If they're even slightly off on the sweetspot (and/or your timing is just right), you're going to send them packing with d-smash (beware of them teching the stage; it can happen). Short-hopped needles, tho'... :3 If they're coming in low, you can definitely hop up and pelt them with a needle or two. Then you can edgeguard to your liking. Watch the angle on that one; if they're hugging the stage as they're coming up, you're not going to be able to hit them.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Cosmo!]

i've hit falcons who are recovering extremely low with both of those moves. if you time it really well you will hit falcon when his leg is above his head. 4th frame of dsmash iirc. the needle must be like directly above his leg to hit

i'm just wondering if the sheik times & spaces it perfectly and the falcon is as low as possible, if the falcon will grab the ledge or get hit

 

[lord karn]

on pokemon you can hold down to keep yourself from landing on them. if you do dair as early as possible (or close) you can dair under them too, which has some fun combo applications that aren't in my videos yet so be the first to use shffl dairs beneath pokemon platforms to link to fair and wow your friends.

on yoshi's you just tilt more (u-tilt *****) and try to play in the middle if possible; you can also use them to edegcancel aerials if you're moving from the ledge > middle, which is also kind of cool sometimes.

Haha, I've actually been using dair a lot after reading some of your posts. It's really effective.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

i've hit falcons who are recovering extremely low with both of those moves. if you time it really well you will hit falcon when his leg is above his head. 4th frame of dsmash iirc. the needle must be like directly above his leg to hit

i'm just wondering if the sheik times & spaces it perfectly and the falcon is as low as possible, if the falcon will grab the ledge or get hit

That's actually interesting to know (the first bit). Thanks, Cosmo.

Now you have me wondering too lol.

Smooth Criminal

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm pretty sure D-smash works.

No clue about needles.

 

[soap]

i think falcon can use some magnet hands for the sweetspot.

especially with the reverse upb grabs

 

[KirbyKaze]

I usually Dair or Nair on those kinds of recoveries because I like aerials but nurgle

 

[gm jack]

I try to angle a needle onto the ledge to give me more time to either punish the panicked early up B or steal the edge from those trying to sweet spot again. He has to fall onto the ledge to grab it, and needles hit below the stage a falcon's width out.

Alternatively, stand a little way away from the edge and **** them as they try to get on and have no space to move in.