Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[SPAWN]

If that became the tournament standard that'd be nuts. I don't think people will start using it until there's a video of it being done though.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

but i do get wind assisted edgecanceled upbs on dreamland all the time

im gonna be that guy.... what is that?

 

[nicaboy]

So that running off and n airing and living is pretty tuff(except off platforms).

 

[SPAWN]

H- It's just when you land with your upb near the edge of a platform, the wind blows and it ends up cancelling some of your lag.

Thank you nicaboy. I find it pretty useful... I just haven't integrated it into my game yet since it's still pretty risky for me to do.

 

[Teczer0]

Heihachi90 (7:46:03 PM): i am prolly the only one that uses the sheik boards to get around swf
teczero8 (7:46:18 PM): ??
Heihachi90 (7:46:30 PM): there's good threads in the first page
Heihachi90 (7:46:33 PM): that u linked
teczero8 (7:46:38 PM): oooooh
Heihachi90 (7:46:41 PM): it's just
teczero8 (7:46:42 PM): wow someone uses that

Omg I love you Marc <3

And Nicaboy - running off and nairing then living is actually extremely simple, unless you're on YS.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Run off Nair on YS has won me many tournament sets.

That were never recorded.

I'm pretty sure ledgehop Bair would have worked anyway though. But run off Nair is so cool. It's like "har har har my foot now ***** you".

 

[DJRome]

i feel like run off nair is a key tool vs marth even if it trades

 

[SPAWN]

Bair regrab is extremely useful also. I feel like the only reason I'm missing edgeguards now is either A, I can't do bair regrab consistently, or B, they're just at an angle/have so many options to do where I can't edgeguard them.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

H- It's just when you land with your upb near the edge of a platform, the wind blows and it ends up cancelling some of your lag.

Thank you nicaboy. I find it pretty useful... I just haven't integrated it into my game yet since it's still pretty risky for me to do.

i teleported THROUGH dreamland while recovering from below the stage once. wasnt recorded but if anyone knows sleepyk he was playing with me when it happened. craziest sh%t ever. i have the craziest things happen to me while poofing

 

[KirbyKaze]

poof 2 gud

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

poof 2 gud

lol

so anyways how does this running nair off of yoshis work? (and living)

 

[SPAWN]

You need to stand before you can run haha.

Just so you'll get it:
1) Go to the end of Yoshi's and do Sheik's teetering animation by the edge
2) Hit left/right and hit A IMMEDIATELY AFTER like, you have to basically try and do a fair, but end up doing a nair. So let go of left/right really fast and hit a while you let go of left/right.
3 ???
4 Profit

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I've given up sheik

 

[ChivalRuse]

You're back to being Jungle again! This makes me happy.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Indeed, I am jungle again

 

[DJRome]

ive always though you should be able to hit the cstick like a ps2 controller to nair.

but i digress.

on another note, is there a hitbox image for the double hitboxes on the landing upb? i find it hits like crazy everywhere and would like to master its use cause it surprises people always

 

[SPAWN]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109595

Tec0- Add that to the first page so people can see just how much time they have when they're getting pillared. :D

 

[DJRome]

wow, the middle of that is really good. seems like for fox/falco, a buffered jump into shine should be pretty solid vs shield pressure

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yah shine out of shield is pretty ****

 

[DJRome]

well, will the buffer, that free ur fingers to spam the b button for shine

 

[SPAWN]

Yeah, you can nair OOS vs Falco against anything he does aside from multishining and shine>bair/nair.

Also, I've been having some trouble edgeguarding Falco recently.

More specifically 3 types of recovering... the Falcos I play usually mix up these things:
1: Illusion onto stage
2: Sweetspot illusion/sometimes without using jump
3: Upb'ing kinda far away and sweetspotting

The one I'm most having trouble with is 2. Any tips? I know obviously you can grab the ledge vs 2... but what do you do if you can't grab the ledge?

 

[KirbyKaze]

needles > sweetspots

 

[SPAWN]

So just randomly jump up and needle a few times... or are you able to react? I know they work for Fox... I just didn't know they worked on Falco because his illusion messes me up really bad.

Could someone provide so videos vs Falco's sweetspot illusion. Gawd I hate his illusion.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

You need to stand before you can run haha.

Just so you'll get it:
1) Go to the end of Yoshi's and do Sheik's teetering animation by the edge
2) Hit left/right and hit A IMMEDIATELY AFTER like, you have to basically try and do a fair, but end up doing a nair. So let go of left/right really fast and hit a while you let go of left/right.
3 ???
4 Profit

lol
/10morelols

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

i did it!
its so low tho

 

[SPAWN]

It's so much fun doing that and then walljumping>random moves.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

like a drephen spike

speaking of
imo the coolest sheik combo by far is a advancing bair to fair

 

[SPAWN]

Alright so I'm pretty bored so... I'm going to point out places with over vs drpp where I would probably do the same thing/something similar and it would end up in a nonedgeguard vs Falco:

Match 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeK_5FSyStw&feature=related#t=0m39s I usually do this one as a gimp so I probably would've missed everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeK_5FSyStw&feature=related#t=0m45s no clue what to do here... especially after I've jumped and made the decision to ff back down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeK_5FSyStw&feature=related#t=0m52s how do you hit the illusion so that it sends him back out instead of clankingish barely hit


Match 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEO0ji3mPKM#t=0m58s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEO0ji3mPKM#t=2m12s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEO0ji3mPKM#t=2m37s I probably wouldn't have naired here (think that's what over wanted to do) I would have stayed on the stage and done something bad that wouldn't have edgeguarded Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEO0ji3mPKM#t=4m0s I would have done the same thing because I would have thought to cover the illusion also since I would have seen the falco just stay in place for a brief second.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEO0ji3mPKM#t=1m59s
You can get out of this combo with sdi on the shine right?


These are all pretty much the hardest edgeguards to do against Falco and they're all different recoveries he can do. Hopefully someone with a lot of edgeguarding knowledge *stares at KK mad hard* will take some time to look them over.

Thanks. ^_^

 

[KirbyKaze]

First one he should have U-tilted after throwing the needles when PP landed in front of him. He would have hit him out of his landing lag and gotten a Fair. D-smash would have also worked.

Second one he got but failed the Bair. He could have grabbed edge --> ledgehop Bairs after the needle hit. If he timed or spaced the Bair it wouldn't have traded and PP would have died.

Third one was just executed too slowly. F-tilt and needles again both would have worked on that.

The first and fourth were just PP being too high for ground needles. Throw them in the air. He still could have hit the first one even after missing if he didn't F-tilt the wrong way or did a different move.

 

[SPAWN]

Oh so for the first one, over did actually cover grabbing the ledge option holy crap didn't notice that. If only he had utilted/usmash.

So I guess vs Falco, needles are used a lot more for edgeguarding.

Please take a look at the Match 1 KK.


Alright, so for Match 1, I figured

First one he should have either jumped out and done a needle or jumped higher and done a needle.

Second one I have no solution for when you're trying to "float" with Falco so that way you can cover him jumping up high and trying to use platforms/other stuff to recover..... Maybe if you notice the Falco hasn't gone yet FF down and ftilt since you can cover the nair options when he's way up high, and the ftilt actually does cover a lotta area for the illusion. Worst comes to worst you miss the ftilt and get a regrab on Falco?

Third one is just you have to time it pretty early since Falco's illusion hitbox is behind him?

Am I doin' it rite?

 

[DJRome]

i feel like this is the same thing as a pillar. falco relies on pillaring to kill sheik and sheik relies on gimps/early edgeguards. and there is a specific timing for both. if falco mistimes dairs, he gets grabbed into lose. same for sheik. mistime the tilts/needles and you lose.

i hate that sheik needles reaction instead of muscle memory tho. . . the latter is sooooo much easier

 

[KirbyKaze]

Oh so for the first one, over did actually cover grabbing the ledge option holy crap didn't notice that. If only he had utilted/usmash.

So I guess vs Falco, needles are used a lot more for edgeguarding.

Please take a look at the Match 1 KK.

U-smash would be too slow.

 

[SPAWN]

I meant to say dsmash, my bad.

Oh yeah DJRome, I never thanked you for getting my controller back to me. Thanks mang. I dunno what I would've done had I lost it at Pound.

 

[KirbyKaze]

1) After F-throw I usually SH Nair offstage after a bit of damage (say, 20). You can control the FF and stuff to cover like everything. After the needles he could have grabbed the edge when PP did what he did and just do whatever. The Fair was a fine decision too btw, he just missed.

2) Immediate SH Bair or just Bairing during FF would win.

3) Not sure how it happens but I'd guess Falco was kind of inside Sheik and the hitbox was close to him so you hit Falco, then the illusion hitbox clanked with the tilt. Either way, it's countered by F-tilting earlier. Or D-smashing.

 

[SPAWN]

I can't believe I forgot about dsmashing Falco's illusion. Comes out in 5 frames, hits in 3 different intervals too so it's ****.

Alright KK, thanks a ton for all the edgeguarding info. I feel like I should not miss an edgeguard this weekend vs a Falco. :D

On a completely seperate note two things...
------->Can you nair oos when a Fox nair shines you? ...if so you do it after the shine, right?

------>Is there a certain length away from the edge where you can't regrab the ledge when being shined by Fox?

 

[nicaboy]

H- It's just when you land with your upb near the edge of a platform, the wind blows and it ends up cancelling some of your lag.

Thank you nicaboy. I find it pretty useful... I just haven't integrated it into my game yet since it's still pretty risky for me to do.

Im more into the soft back air to fir gimp its prett sexy.

Heihachi90 (7:46:03 PM): i am prolly the only one that uses the sheik boards to get around swf
teczero8 (7:46:18 PM): ??
Heihachi90 (7:46:30 PM): there's good threads in the first page
Heihachi90 (7:46:33 PM): that u linked
teczero8 (7:46:38 PM): oooooh
Heihachi90 (7:46:41 PM): it's just
teczero8 (7:46:42 PM): wow someone uses that

Omg I love you Marc <3

And Nicaboy - running off and nairing then living is actually extremely simple, unless you're on YS.

Yes i was only refrering to ys lol. Remember you guys corrected me.

 

[DJRome]

no prob bro. u should come to herb. kk, is canada coming as well?

 

[SPAWN]

I've actually never been to herb lol. When's the next Herb btw?

Nica- I just continuously bair until they're dead because I find it hilarious.

 

[DJRome]

herb is the 27th i think. well, in 2 saturdays basically

 

[SPAWN]

Oh crap, that's too soon lol. I'll go to the next one if I can hitch a ride with someone.