Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Dukefire]

Time to start the countdown clock for the VGA.

Spoiler: 20 days remaining

 

[Shinuto]

This is kinda dumb since its just purely my own imagination, but I think visually it'd be reall cool if Shantae learned to breathe fire, and we see her lean back, take a deep breath with big puffed out cheeks and blast out a huge stream of fire.

My idea engine is always on...

 

[Dukefire]

Well, people are getting more fuel to the hype train since Sakurai has talked about another Newcomer for smash that we don't have any idea.

Click here to see the source info.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Yeah, the dance transformations that are so integral to Shantae that they're not in Seven Sirens, except possibly as well-hidden extras.

Still, my ideas do incorporate dancing and transformations that affect status and moves, just not in the way you probably think.

Seamlessly flowing forms based on actions and the most recent dance, I feel is more satisfying than trying to cram full-time forms into highly specialized niches. And it's not even so far removed now that we see how Seven Sirens are handling them.

How do you know Seven Sirens won't have dances?

Regardless, her dance transformations were in three out of four released games.
Your personal gripes with it don't matter.
They have been a core ability of Shantae ever since her first game.

And like KirbyWorshipper said above, Sakurai's standards have changed and he now prefers to make the characters play as if they were in their own games.

But sure, be as aggressive and lordly as you want.
I don't care.

 

[Biometal]

This happened:

https://twitter.com/mytotaku/status/1198234195044323330?s=19

 

[meleebrawler]

How do you know Seven Sirens won't have dances?

Regardless, her dance transformations were in three out of four released games.
Your personal gripes with it don't matter.
They have been a core ability of Shantae ever since her first game.

And like KirbyWorshipper said above, Sakurai's standards have changed and he now prefers to make the characters play as if they were in their own games.

But sure, be as aggressive and lordly as you want.
I don't care.

Shinuto See, this is why I don't comment on movesets anymore.

I get told my opinion doesn't matter and that I'm lordy just for strongly disagreeing.

Adding to what Paragon-Yoshi said, after Brawl, Sakurai has consistently treated third-parties to a different standard by usually basing them and their movesets on their most iconic and memorable appearances. and mostly fight like how they do in Street Fighter II (to say nothing of ). feels like he was taken right out of his games. So does , with the only big difference being that he uses Item Crash for convenience's sake. Most people thought would use swag from Tooie and even Nuts & Bolts, but they stick almost entirely with their B&K toolset. is the biggest outlier, but he's meant to represent Namco's old arcade games anyway. And don't get me started on .

Thinking that Shantae wouldn't be programmed on incorporating the dances from the first two games as well as some SSS swag is pretty much thinking inside the box at this stage.

Can pick up their grenade eggs to throw them? Or use Bill Drill upwards?

Does get a random selection of spells every time his turn comes?

Can any of these guys use most of their specials in the air during their own games ?

I also don't think just lumping the two "less accurate" third parties as being from a different time is the whole story. Snake not only has ratings to contend with, but also the fact that Smash is the furthest thing from the usual slow-paced stealth of his home games. Sonic on the other hand is based on his own most iconic appearances in 2D, where all he did was run, jump and Spin Dash, and that's exactly what he does in Smash, plus his most useful ability from 3D games, the Homing Attack. He doesn't need time to accelerate to full speed in Smash because that would just suck and actually make him feel slower than most fighters.

You can try to be as faithful as possible, but concessions and deviations are inevitable, and not just for small things. I'm not saying "don't dance and transform", I'm just saying making it as close to 1:1 to how it works in older games as possible doesn't sound it'll translate to being fun to use in a fast-paced fighting game.

 

[Morning Raven]

When did someone ever say to not use transformations? Only place I can think of is me saying I don't want Kirby to have to use transformations. That's extra resource work not worth it when Kirby already requires extra work for each fighter. I think SS instant fusion using old transformations would be the most likely, since any move could then use any form you want briefly.

However, if you do it old Zelda/pkmn trainer style, and have the down special be the spell used to transform, borrowing Shulk's menu, I see nothing wrong with an actual shape shifter kit instead of instant fusion moves. Kirby could then mimic the human N special. Human specials could be item spell or pirate gear based. Down would let you transform, and each form has 3 specials to work from then. Plus, down special to transform also references the first game where each dance starts with down. That might mean skipping the spider, but theres 2 versions of the spider anyway and the other main 3 would provide better balanced stat changes.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Shinuto See, this is why I don't comment on movesets anymore.

I get told my opinion doesn't matter and that I'm lordy just for strongly disagreeing.

You don't get called lordly for disagreeing, but for your unnecessarily aggressive attitude about it.
And you come off as an opinionated jerk because of it.


Disagree all you want. You have that right and it's totally fine if you invoke it.
But you can do so, without looking like you throw a hissy fit in text form or being in any way dismissive to other ideas.

Disagreeing is fine.
Acting like a jerk over it, is not!

When did someone ever say to not use transformations? Only place I can think of is me saying I don't want Kirby to have to use transformations. That's extra resource work not worth it when Kirby already requires extra work for each fighter. I think SS instant fusion using old transformations would be the most likely, since any move could then use any form you want briefly.

I think the Kirby issue is easily fixed by not making her transformation dances be her Neutral Special.

However, if you do it old Zelda/pkmn trainer style, and have the down special be the spell used to transform, borrowing Shulk's menu, I see nothing wrong with an actual shape shifter kit instead of instant fusion moves. Kirby could then mimic the human N special. Human specials could be item spell or pirate gear based..

Exactly what I had in mind.
Heck, Dukefire even spelled it out, that you could make the dances work like in Half-Genie Hero.

I never suggested to make a Transformation Dance special work like in her original game, when you had to input directions DDR-style.

 

[meleebrawler]

When did someone ever say to not use transformations? Only place I can think of is me saying I don't want Kirby to have to use transformations. That's extra resource work not worth it when Kirby already requires extra work for each fighter. I think SS instant fusion using old transformations would be the most likely, since any move could then use any form you want briefly.

However, if you do it old Zelda/pkmn trainer style, and have the down special be the spell used to transform, borrowing Shulk's menu, I see nothing wrong with an actual shape shifter kit instead of instant fusion moves. Kirby could then mimic the human N special. Human specials could be item spell or pirate gear based. Down would let you transform, and each form has 3 specials to work from then. Plus, down special to transform also references the first game where each dance starts with down. That might mean skipping the spider, but theres 2 versions of the spider anyway and the other main 3 would provide better balanced stat changes.

The Pokemon Trainer method sounds good on paper, but it's incredibly easy to screw up in practice. Remember how when Zelda and Sheik were together, it turned out that it was better to be Sheik 90% of the time, when on paper the plan was to use Sheik for damage raising and Zelda for KOing. But Zelda was just too slow and awkward to actually land those hits, without enough tools to make up for it.

What makes Pokemon Trainer so good in this game, besides the removal of dumb things like stamina and type matchups, is how each "form" does not necessarily strictly adhere to it's intended purpose. Squirtle is the "speedster" with agile movement and fast attacks, but also has an armoured move and surprisingly strong smashes. Ivysaur is the all-rounder zoner with that can also "swordfight" with vines, and Charizard is the heavy hitting tank that can actually move pretty fast and recover well.

Now tell me, how is something like the elephant, which has never been shown to be anything but big, incredibly slow and cumbersome, supposed to actually land it's power moves on it's own, compared to the monkey and especially the flying harpy?

 

[Dukefire]

Now tell me, how is something like the elephant, which has never been shown to be anything but big, incredibly slow and cumbersome, supposed to actually land it's power moves on it's own, compared to the monkey and especially the flying harpy?

You can treat the elephant form like how heavyweights are, slow but powerful.
The charge is instant and can still charge in the air to a certain distance. Of course you can also stomp, but with how the elephant form jumps, best to use it on high elevation. I could say it can have a spike if directly under the stomp. Both will have decent endlag based how it works in her games. Just don't use it too much to avoid being predictable.

 

[meleebrawler]

You can treat the elephant form like how heavyweights are, slow but powerful.
The charge is instant and can still charge in the air to a certain distance. Of course you can also stomp, but with how the elephant form jumps, best to use it on high elevation. I could say it can have a spike if directly under the stomp. Both will have decent endlag based how it works in her games. Just don't use it too much to avoid being predictable.

It's impossible to not be predictable with it when a menu telegraphs you're changing to it and charging is the only good move for closing in that can be shielded and grabbed.

If I don't hear of some trick that can be done to fool them into falling for it or getting them caught in a situation where opponents can't dodge or shield it (which is hard when the dancing process eats up precious time!), "don't use it too much" just sounds like "don't use it all because it leaves you open" to me.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

It's impossible to not be predictable with it when a menu telegraphs you're changing to it and charging is the only good move for closing in that can be shielded and grabbed.

If I don't hear of some trick that can be done to fool them into falling for it or getting them caught in a situation where opponents can't dodge or shield it (which is hard when the dancing process eats up precious time!), "don't use it too much" just sounds like "don't use it all because it leaves you open" to me.

In that case...

- Why use Shulk's Shield Monado Art?
- Why use Bowser's Down B?
- Heck why use Heavyweights at all?

You intend to stay inside the box at all costs, hm?

 

[meleebrawler]

In that case...

- Why use Shulk's Shield Monado Art?
- Why use Bowser's Down B?
- Heck why use Heavyweights at all?

You intend to stay inside the box at all costs, hm?

- Shulk actually takes less damage using Shield, makes his regular shield stronger and doesn't make himself a bigger target, so it works well for it's intended role of minimizing damage taken rather than landing hits.

- Bowser Bomb is on a character that is actually quite fast in the air and on the ground and is not a bad jumper, it breaks shields and can snap to the ledge. Plus you can start it on the ground to move it forward and trick opponents.

- Other heavyweights have tools that help mitigate their usual weakness to getting camped or being predictable. Some more successfully than others, sure, but the tools exist. Bowser, Donkey Kong and Charizard can all move very fast to chase down their opponent, and Bowser in particular has a scary command grab. King Dedede and K. Rool have good distance recoveries, projectiles of their own and reflectors, with Dedede having multiple jumps and K. Rool having several armoured moves. Ganondorf and Incineroar are the closest to how the elephant plays and generally not considered very good, but they both at least have rushing command grabs, Ganondorf's wizkick can move through some projectiles and Incineroar's Revenge prevents opponents from just throwing projectiles at him all day.

 

[Inoj]

Man this move-list arguing reminds me of the pre-release days.


Shantae is in!
Shantae is deconfirmed!
Dully's here!
Dully's dead!
I post artwork and you will Like everything I say.


Maybe we should chill a bit and not compare people to Yamcha.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Can we all just calm down and look at how awesome Shantae is for being a part of the Totaku Collection?

 

[Shinuto]

Can we all just calm down and look at how awesome Shantae is for being a part of the Totaku Collection?

Who else was she up against for that?

Cause I think its pretty impressive.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Who else was she up against for that?

Cause I think its pretty impressive.

Other gaming girl greats, including Lara Croft and Joanna Dark.

Also, my bro Joe.

Until then - here’s a new look at the boxes front and back! pic.twitter.com/eQ5yAfsDA6

— TOTAKU™ Collection (@mytotaku) November 22, 2019

Like the figure, this should be appreciated until a confirmation someday.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Other gaming girl greats, including Lara Croft and Joanna Dark.

Also, my bro Joe.

Until then - here’s a new look at the boxes front and back! pic.twitter.com/eQ5yAfsDA6

— TOTAKU™ Collection (@mytotaku) November 22, 2019

Like the figure, this should be appreciated until a confirmation someday.

The best thing is that Banjo&Kazooie got their long before they were announced for Smash, so we don't have to worry that Nintendo considered these enough of an Amiibo competitor to ban playable fighters from getting a Totaku figure.

 

[Sunny-Zee]

The best thing is that Banjo&Kazooie got their long before they were announced for Smash, so we don't have to worry that Nintendo considered these enough of an Amiibo competitor to ban playable fighters from getting a Totaku figure.

Probably because they AREN’T NFC figures like the amiibo line. There are different markets for aesthetically-similar-yet-different products, after all.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Probably because they AREN’T NFC figures like the amiibo line. There are different markets for aesthetically-similar-yet-different products, after all.

But you can't argue that the main appeal of amiibo are the collectible figure side of things (especially since their function as nfc devices goes almost entirely unused by Nintendo anymore) So they still exist in the same realm as competition and Nintendo has been petty about less in the past. Just saying that this isn't anything someone could try to use as evidence against our girl.

 

[Lamperouge]

This happened:

https://twitter.com/mytotaku/status/1198234195044323330?s=19

Now we just need Shantae playable in Smash so we can get an amiibo.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

It's also intriguing, we don't know what the Totaku figurine looks like, yet I feel as if this may be a sign for our Half-Genie. That's been a sort of conspiracy that's been going on in my mind for a few hours now, yet I feel that this might be our big break.
That being said, it was in reaction to the thousands wanting her, yet this might nudge Sora Ltd or Nintendo to consider her a bit more seriously, if they weren't doing so already.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In any case, we can't deny that a sudden influx of merch is much more of a tangible clue that any "wink and you'll miss it" in-game teases.

Has the Shantae Funko Pop been announced yet?

Edit: https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1198382771237867520

So, as far as PushDustIn is concerned, no one really knows who #5 is right now, but with all the busywork, it's likely that they'll leak shortly before the VGAs start. I could definitely see a secret dual-reveal if #6 only had some initial prep like had.

Spoiler

 

[SoupCanMafia]

That being said, how large would you think they'd make it?
I think they'd make her similar in size to the CharaGumin figurines, though WF could try to make her more chibi-like. As for style, I am thinking it'd be either Seven Sirens based or composite out of all the games, sort of similarly to CharaGumin's Shantae.

 

[Shinuto]

That being said, how large would you think they'd make it?
I think they'd make her similar in size to the CharaGumin figurines, though WF could try to make her more chibi-like. As for style, I am thinking it'd be either Seven Sirens based or composite out of all the games, sort of similarly to CharaGumin's Shantae.

Imagine if it was GBCShantae promotional art with her super long Bayonetta tier legs. and thin body.

 

[Dukefire]

Honestly, it too contested on speculation with VGA coming closer as each day passes. I'm scared about the people that does believe "Supposedly" confirm and/or Deconfirms from "Leaks". It just might not end well for them.

Spoiler: Scared

Like what KirbyWorshipper said, Nintendo and Sakurai is keeping a close eye on this surprise till the near day VGA comes.

 

[Shinuto]

Honestly, it too contested on speculation with VGA coming closer as each day passes. I'm scared about the people that does believe "Supposedly" confirm and/or Deconfirms from "Leaks". It just might not end well for them.

Spoiler: Scared

View attachment 247850

Like what KirbyWorshipper said, Nintendo and Sakurai is keeping a close eye on this surprise till the near day VGA comes.

source on that? its great reaction pic

 

[Dukefire]

source on that? its great reaction pic

The hero is overpowered but overly Cautious ep 7

 

[Superiorstar]

I haven't been here in a long while, what did I miss?

 

[LaBeteNoire]

I haven't been here in a long while, what did I miss?

Smash wise, nothing really. Everyone is just going a little stir crazy as we wait for any kind of news.

As for Shantae on a whole. it was just announced that she would be getting a Totaku figure sometime next year and there might be a pop figure for her somewhere in the future.

So, not everyone's cup of tea, but it definitely shows that our girl is pulling herself more and more out of obscurity to indie darling.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

And I'm ironically the only remotely sane enough person in here, since I've never been one to only bet on a single character. I'm actually eager to see the VGAs.

Honestly, it too contested on speculation with VGA coming closer as each day passes. I'm scared about the people that does believe "Supposedly" confirm and/or Deconfirms from "Leaks". It just might not end well for them.

Spoiler: Scared

View attachment 247850

Like what KirbyWorshipper said, Nintendo and Sakurai is keeping a close eye on this surprise till the near day VGA comes.

Let's not melodramatize this, sure people will be annoyed that their preconceptions are proven false, but it's not their lives are at stake here. Besides, let's not forget that there's more characters coming after this.

Spoiler

Imagine if it was GBCShantae promotional art with her super long Bayonetta tier legs. and thin body.

Hah, I could see that, but updated per Matt's evolved style (think RR and Xtreme Sports' 3DS VC rerelease art).

 

[meleebrawler]

I don't think I've ever seen Shantae look this suave before:

Spoiler

 

[Dukefire]

I wonder if that Hawaiian outfit might be considered as another costume? Though, Sakurai does want to be the character's full details of their origins.

So, I will settle on standing back and wait for the announcements to come. Regarding "leaks" being thrown around.

Spoiler: Random Cute Demon Bird

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Going back to Bayonetta leg comparisons, wouldn't it be hilarious if she gets used as a base for Shantae? After people saw the former as an obstacle to the latter for so long.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I don't know why, but I picture Zelda being used as a base for Shantae just because of her pointy ears and fire magic abilities.

 

[Dukefire]

Shantae might be based on Zelda, Bayonetta and ZSS I could guess if we can see her offical Smash Render by Sakurai and the smash team

 

[meleebrawler]

Going back to Bayonetta leg comparisons, wouldn't it be hilarious if she gets used as a base for Shantae? After people saw the former as an obstacle to the latter for so long.

She always looks shorter than her friends in-game, though, even if just by a bit. I don't see her being much taller than Mario.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

She always looks shorter than her friends in-game, though, even if just by a bit. I don't see her being much taller than Mario.

Eh, actual scale is pointless in Smash anyway.

In any case, Sabi is prepared to lea--er, hear about rumors.

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Dukefire]

Eh, actual scale is pointless in Smash anyway.

In any case, Sabi is prepared to lea--er, hear about rumors.

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Not 100% going to believe what will happen, but I will keep my ears open

 

[TOY the Gamer]

A little off the Smash topic, but for Shantae in general:

Does anyone here think Shantae might have a crush on Bolo or maybe that Bolo secretly crushes on Shantae?

With them being explicitly dubbed "childhood friends" AND Bolo being the one to allow Shantae to overcome her Nega side, I think it's pretty plausible it could happen one day. Of course, I'd prefer WayForward never give her any love interest, but I just wanted an opinion on that particular ship (it gets overshadowed a lot by some crack shippings, namely Risky and Rotty).