Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[SoupCanMafia]

I have no idea why, though to some extent, I feel Shantae is in a weird place when it comes to representation. She's large enough she can have substantial influence on others, but she's still rather small compared to many others in the field. And perhaps to some extent, she could be an influence gravity well kinda character, in a similar vein as Shovel Knight in Rivals of Aether.

Regardless, the past few months have been quite bountiful for Shantae as a franchise. More merchandising rivaling/outpacing even the Blue Burrower's might, an influence bomb that spread her memes out to a larger mass, and a game that has some good influence with the memes, though perhaps not as great as initial reveals suggest.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Surely, the release date for Rivals of Aether will eventually get unveiled. Wouldn't be shocked if it's out on the last day of the month.

Yeah, it's conspicuously odd. For as much as they want her exposure to expand, they've done relatively little about it. It's not like they have a bad reputation with other indies.



We really don't know why they're doing it at this point. We don't have enough evidence to tell for sure, so all we can do is wait until the truth comes up.

Spoiler

Yeah...
She certainly was allowed to cross over with other franchises. Runbow and Blaster Master Zero are proof of this.
Heck we would've gotten her for Indivisible as well.

But strangely she is absent from all crossover games that are fighting games.
If they are being conservative about her appearances...
1. Why would they be in the first place?
2. Why is she only allowed to appear in games, that aren't even remotely fighting games?

 

[Teeb147]

If they are being conservative about her appearances...
1. Why would they be in the first place?

Smash

2. Why is she only allowed to appear in games, that aren't even remotely fighting games?

Smash

Just playing, but really I don't know what's their reasoning for being conservative. Maybe they have a vision in mind for shantae, or thought some of the companies wouldn't be faithful to her. Saying those things doesn't feel right though, they could just say they want to look at the final product to make sure it's good with them and their standards.. soo... *shrug

 

[meleebrawler]

Oh, it's definitely harder alright, but I'm not sure if it's for the right reasons. Not a fan of scrambling to find sunscreen and the bubble mechanic is awkward as hell, and Somecallmejohnny wasn't kidding when he said that you pretty much have to take the hit while using it to climb the sand tower.

Beach mode is actually my favorite of the costume modes. It has the best writing, with Risky getting sassed by her Tinkerbats, Shantae saying "I'm sorry" in the cutest way you'll ever hear, and Ammo Baron mistaking a race track for a gladiatorial arena among other highlights. Never had much trouble using the bubble to cruise past obstacles either; that spot in the tower is equally problematic in Jammies mode (where you take more damage to boot), so I can't really hold that against either mode. Using the sunscreen effectively does require some trial-and error... but if you had any interest at all in going for the different endings, you're probably doing that sort of thing already.

That makes Ninja mode the weakest in my opinion because they really don't use the angle well in-story, and the ending twist is just dumb. At least River City Girls's has some foreshadowing.

Smash

Smash

Just playing, but really I don't know what's their reasoning for being conservative. Maybe they have a vision in mind for shantae, or thought some of the companies wouldn't be faithful to her. Saying those things doesn't feel right though, they could just say they want to look at the final product to make sure it's good with them and their standards.. soo... *shrug

Meh, Indivisible would have been close enough to a "fighting" appearance. But either way that's like saying she's due to cameo in Phoenix Wright because she hasn't appeared in any point-and-click games either. When you look at all the new games that aren't Shantae Wayforward has released this year, I think they just don't want to be known only for Shantae.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Between Bounty Battle and Rivals of Aether, it seems like it's going to be a good September for Smash-like games on the Switch. I haven't seen much of Bounty Battle in terms of gameplay, though hopefully it's good - I'm only familiar with four or five of the franchises involved, but I'm really looking forward to seeing Raz from Psychonauts in a Smash-like game. (if it is similar to Smash - it's hard to tell through screenshots)

I'm surprised that Shantae hasn't made into any Smash-like games. Not this, not Rivals of Aether, not even Brawlout, Brawlhalla, or Indie Pogo. The closest that I can think of is Runbow, a platformer game, where she was added as free DLC, or Blaster Master Zero, but neither of those are fighting games.

It is odd specifically when you consider how well she would fit in some of those games. I mean both Rivals of Aether and Brawlout have a roster of all animal fighters (aside from their guest characters) and Shantae transforms into animals, plus her 8 bit sprite from the first game would fit perfectly in Aether with some modifications to make her dimensions fit with the rest of the cast.

 

[meleebrawler]

I have no idea why, though to some extent, I feel Shantae is in a weird place when it comes to representation. She's large enough she can have substantial influence on others, but she's still rather small compared to many others in the field. And perhaps to some extent, she could be an influence gravity well kinda character, in a similar vein as Shovel Knight in Rivals of Aether.

Regardless, the past few months have been quite bountiful for Shantae as a franchise. More merchandising rivaling/outpacing even the Blue Burrower's might, an influence bomb that spread her memes out to a larger mass, and a game that has some good influence with the memes, though perhaps not as great as initial reveals suggest.

Let's enjoy this, because barring unforeseen circumstances, the next year it looks like it will be Shovel Knight's turn in the spotlight again.

 

[Teeb147]

Meh, Indivisible would have been close enough to a "fighting" appearance. But either way that's like saying she's due to cameo in Phoenix Wright because she hasn't appeared in any point-and-click games either. When you look at all the new games that aren't Shantae Wayforward has released this year, I think they just don't want to be known only for Shantae.

Huh? indivisible is a single player rpg, how is that a multiplayer fighting game?

Also, we talked about contracts before, and how some characters get asked exclusivity

 

[meleebrawler]

Huh? indivisible is a single player rpg, how is that a multiplayer fighting game?

Also, we talked about contracts before, and how some characters get asked exclusivity

You engage battles with combos, high-low mixups, juggling and supers, and what little RPG mechanics there are have very little impact on how they play out. If anything it's a metroidvania adventure that happens to have unusual fighting-game based battles, just like the Origami King if you think about it (just in 3D and sliding puzzles). You can't even grind because most enemies don't respawn until set points in the story.

You'l have to excuse me for being skeptical when there is zero precedent or evidence of forced exclusivity of any kind for DLC Smash characters. What kind of arbitrary length would such a contract be binding for, and why is Shovel Knight exempt?

 

[Teeb147]

You engage battles with combos, high-low mixups, juggling and supers, and what little RPG mechanics there are have very little impact on how they play out. If anything it's a metroidvania adventure that happens to have unusual fighting-game based battles, just like the Origami King if you think about it (just in 3D and sliding puzzles). You can't even grind because most enemies don't respawn until set points in the story.

You'l have to excuse me for being skeptical when there is zero precedent or evidence of forced exclusivity of any kind for DLC Smash characters. What kind of arbitrary length would such a contract be binding for, and why is Shovel Knight exempt?

It's just nothing like smash, I don't know why you brought it up. It's not what they'd be looking out for.

I don't remember what we talked about for precedent. If i find something i'll bring it up

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If Indivisible is a fighting game, then that means that Project X Zone is a Capcom crossover fighting game.

Yeah, I don't even start to see how this makes any sense.

Spoiler

 

[meleebrawler]

If Indivisible is a fighting game, then that means that Project X Zone is a Capcom crossover fighting game.

Yeah, I don't even start to see how this makes any sense.

Spoiler

I literally just said it was a metroidvania.

There just isn't enough crossover appearances by Shantae, period, to accuse Wayforward of excluding fighting games specifically. What about first/third-person shooters, schmups, puzzle, racing games? Are their omissions supposed to mean anything?

 

[Teeb147]

I literally just said it was a metroidvania.

There just isn't enough crossover appearances by Shantae, period, to accuse Wayforward of excluding fighting games specifically. What about first/third-person shooters, schmups, puzzle, racing games? Are their omissions supposed to mean anything?

I think the difference is that there have been a decent amount of fighting games where she could've made an appearance, and if I recall there was someone that asked for shantae? I don't remember, it's been a while lol. But if it's just that WF didn't want her in those games, then the question is just.. well why. Why be conservative about it? Tin foil hat theory is it's because they want to make sure that nintendo doesn't look at her appearances and be like oh wait she's already in other competitors we dont want to give attention to. Nintendo could ask for her not to show up in any other fighters as well, which isn't unheard of a company to do (just like exclusive rights to games). But that's just and exteme idea, we don't really know what's going on or what WF is thinking

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Whether Shantae makes into Ultimate or a future Smash game, I still have some hope she will come along with a Risky Echo Fighter especially if even remotely half of her moveset involves around Risky's gear.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Whether Shantae makes into Ultimate or a future Smash game, I still have some hope she will come along with a Risky Echo Fighter especially if even remotely half of her moveset involves around Risky's gear.

I think semi-unique is the likelier scenario, honestly.

Of course, that's assuming we do eventually get second unique fighters for given third-party series...

 

[Teeb147]

Yeah echo fighters have to play the same, and i dont see how risky could be like shantae for some things.

 

[Shinuto]

I firmly think we'll get smash reveal this week.

 

[Teeb147]

I firmly think we'll get smash reveal this week.

That's optimistic

Is it because of the directory or whatever? I havent really looked into what people said but I saw some people think a smash reveal is soon because of it.

 

[Shinuto]

That's optimistic

Is it because of the directory or whatever? I havent really looked into what people said but I saw some people think a smash reveal is soon because of it.

gut feeling

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

gut feeling

In any case, I do believe we should be hearing something before the 25th hits, since that's when the and amiibo batches release in Japan.

Around the Tuesday-to-middle of the next three weeks, to be more precise.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Yeah echo fighters have to play the same, and i dont see how risky could be like shantae for some things.

So clones and Echos might not be 100% the same, but Echos is another term for clones when you think about it. Remember when Ganondorf was a Captain Falcon clone in Melee? He had one move that was unique that wasn't Falcon's and that was his Forward Aerial which was his fist punch. Ganondorf didn't have Falcon's knee of justice when he was a full on clone. This right here is telling me Echos could have new unique moves in the future.

So imagine if at least half of Shantae's moveset involves around Risky's gear, they could ditch the animal transformation Specials in favor for the rest of Risky's gear thus making her unique while also calling her a Echo Fighter. It would be a nice way to loophole around the Echo concept, but this can only work if Shantae's moveset is at least 50% Risky's gear.

 

[Teeb147]

So clones and Echos might not be 100% the same, but Echos is another term for clones when you think about it. Remember when Ganondorf was a Captain Falcon clone in Melee? He had one move that was unique that wasn't Falcon's and that was his Forward Aerial which was his fist punch. Ganondorf didn't have Falcon's knee of justice when he was a full on clone. This right here is telling me Echos could have new unique moves in the future.

So imagine if at least half of Shantae's moveset involves around Risky's gear, they could ditch the animal transformation Specials in favor for the rest of Risky's gear thus making her unique while also calling her a Echo Fighter. It would be a nice way to loophole around the Echo concept, but this can only work if Shantae's moveset is at least 50% Risky's gear.

No echos are like that now. Dr. Mario and Isabelle are unique characters even if they're still clones.
But in any case, I'd love to see echo dlc characters, too bad I don't think it'll happen.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

No echos are like that now. Dr. Mario and Isabelle are unique characters even if they're still clones.
But in any case, I'd love to see echo dlc characters, too bad I don't think it'll happen.

I'd love that too, there is so much potential and it would be less work on the Devs. My personal first will always be hoping for Dixie Kong.

 

[Dukefire]

If that's the case, then the third or fourth week of september may be it. As it is close to Joker and Hero's amiibo release.

 

[Shinuto]

What did I tell you guys?

maybe

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'd love that too, there is so much potential and it would be less work on the Devs. My personal first will always be hoping for Dixie Kong.

I personally only want Dixie Kong as a unique fighter as being a Echo wouldn't do her justice in my eyes. It would be the worst character to turn into a clone since Ganondorf back in Melee. Ganondorf should have never been a clone/semi-clone of Captain Falcon and I think they shouldn't make the same mistake with Dixie.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

I agree. I would much prefer her as a unique fighter, but if an echo is all we can get I will take it.

As for the Ganondorf Capt Falcon bit. In all fairness that movestyle made more sense for Ganondorf than it did for Flacon. At that point Ganondorf had only been in Ocarina, and in that game the way he fought was pounding the ground with his fist and batting balls of energy back at you. Still not a perfect representation, but it fit him far better than a person who had only ever driven a car in his source material.

 

[Teeb147]

What did I tell you guys?
View attachment 284744
maybe

Lol I think that's what people were talking about. Cool that you didn't know about it XD
Dint know it was the japanese one tho. I barely looked at what people were saying.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I agree. I would much prefer her as a unique fighter, but if an echo is all we can get I will take it.

As for the Ganondorf Capt Falcon bit. In all fairness that movestyle made more sense for Ganondorf than it did for Flacon. At that point Ganondorf had only been in Ocarina, and in that game the way he fought was pounding the ground with his fist and batting balls of energy back at you. Still not a perfect representation, but it fit him far better than a person who had only ever driven a car in his source material.

I guess you have a point there. I wish Ganondorf would play like he does in Legacy XP:

 

[War Anvil]

What did I tell you guys?
View attachment 284744
maybe

Turns out it may have been the Japanese tournament.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If that's the case, then the third or fourth week of september may be it. As it is close to Joker and Hero's amiibo release.

Yeah, generally speaking announcements come in late in a month. As such, I have a difficult time thinking they would have one in the same week as an Ubisoft Forward.

 

[Dukefire]

Oh, I didn't know Ubisoft is holding an announcement this week. If that's the case, it is just another week to sit back and wait.

 

[Lamperouge]

Really hoping that we receive an update on the physical release of Seven Sirens from LRG soon. I'd like to pre-order the original and Risky's Revenge but I don't want to end up waiting even longer for SS.

 

[MeteoRain]

I agree. I would much prefer her as a unique fighter, but if an echo is all we can get I will take it.

As for the Ganondorf Capt Falcon bit. In all fairness that movestyle made more sense for Ganondorf than it did for Flacon. At that point Ganondorf had only been in Ocarina, and in that game the way he fought was pounding the ground with his fist and batting balls of energy back at you. Still not a perfect representation, but it fit him far better than a person who had only ever driven a car in his source material.

In all fairness, two wrongs don't make it right.

Captain Falcon had nothing to work with so the made up moveset was far more excusable. Ganondorf not only boulderized his character, but even his potential. Especially if you belong in one of the groups that just clumps him with Ganon as the same entity only worth a single slot.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

In all fairness, two wrongs don't make it right.

Captain Falcon had nothing to work with so the made up moveset was far more excusable. Ganondorf not only boulderized his character, but even his potential. Especially if you belong in one of the groups that just clumps him with Ganon as the same entity only worth a single slot.

But at the point in time that when Melee was made, Ganondorf had very little source material to pull from. He shot an energy ball at young Link, He floated in his boss fight, he did his ground punch, and then a scatter darkness shot. So really aside from giving him a projectile based on his two energy shots, the rest of his moveset needed to be made up anyway. This was before the gamecube test footage where we saw him using a sword. His up B might as well be representing his floating and his Warlock Punch might as well be representing his powerful punch the the ground that would make the floor fall out. Based on that everything else had to be made up and the old Capt Falcon fighting style made as much sense as anything. Maybe they should have given him Mewtwo's Shadow Ball as well to represent that scatter shot, but then the rest of his moveset would need to be made up from nothing so it's just as good as what we got.

 

[Teeb147]

Ganondorf was just a quick clone character. They didn't put too much thought into it, just like Pichu and Roy, the main difference being that he's got nothing to do with F-Zero XD

The surprising thing is that they kept him the same throughout the next smash games :O

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Ganondorf was just a quick clone character. They didn't put too much thought into it, just like Pichu and Roy, the main difference being that he's got nothing to do with F-Zero XD

I'm not arguing that he wasn't a clone, just saying that that fighting style at least made more sense for Ganondorf at the time it happened than it ever did with Captain Flacon

 

[Teeb147]

I'm not arguing that he wasn't a clone, just saying that that fighting style at least made more sense for Ganondorf at the time it happened than it ever did with Captain Flacon

Lol I dunno, it made sense enough when I played the n64 smash. It's not like we had any precedent for how a racer would fight.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Lol I dunno, it made sense enough when I played the n64 smash. It's not like we had any precedent for how a racer would fight.

But in Ocarina, Ganondorf did float around and punch whereas before his inclusion in Smash Capt Falcon hadn't done anything outside his space car.

 

[Teeb147]

But in Ocarina, Ganondorf did float around and punch whereas before his inclusion in Smash Capt Falcon hadn't done anything outside his space car.

Personally I didnt find ganondorf to be true at all to how he was in ocarina of time. With up-b he doesn't really float.. he does in the new moveset people made for him in the smash offshoots, i think that's cool, they gave it more thought than nintendo. It does baffle me that they kept the same clone moveset after melee, but oh well.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

The surprising thing is that they kept him the same throughout the next smash games :O

Sakurai kept Ganondorf's moveset to not alienate those who played as him in previous Smash Games.