Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Teeb147]

Sakurai kept Ganondorf's moveset to not alienate those who played as him in previous Smash Games.

Or just laziness ;p
They could've slowly updated it, kinda like they did with Dr. Mario but change or add something fitting to him each game. That's how I might've done it.

 

[zferolie]

Or just laziness ;p
They could've slowly updated it, kinda like they did with Dr. Mario but change or add something fitting to him each game. That's how I might've done it.

Sadly its too late to fully change Ganondorf now, but I was always under the opinion they could change him more(keep maybe half his moves like Wizards fist, up tilt, and Side B, and his smashes), and then add in Black shadow t be a clone and have Melee Ganondorfs set. you get Pure old school Ganondorf fans happy(maybe give him some of the buffs later games had), You make Fzero fans happy with a new character(an echo be still people like those), and you get the Zelda unique ganondorf fans happy. Litterally everyone wins

 

[Apocalypso]

Apparently there is a glitch with K.Rool's cannon ball with the Franklin badge currently and ONLY the Blunderbluss in the current patch.

K. Rool Blunderbuss Glitch Could Point to Shantae in Smash!

In this video, I talk about a visual glitch I discovered that could point to King K. Rool being used as a base for Shantae's up special.

www.youtube.com

Yoooo, thanks for linking my video! It made me happy when I saw that a video of mine got traffic through SmashBoards, and I was even more happy when it didn't take me multiple hours to find!

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Sadly its too late to fully change Ganondorf now, but I was always under the opinion they could change him more(keep maybe half his moves like Wizards fist, up tilt, and Side B, and his smashes), and then add in Black shadow t be a clone and have Melee Ganondorfs set. you get Pure old school Ganondorf fans happy(maybe give him some of the buffs later games had), You make Fzero fans happy with a new character(an echo be still people like those), and you get the Zelda unique ganondorf fans happy. Litterally everyone wins

Except Sakurai might still think he would alienate people with this, if the moveset people associated with Ganondorf is suddenly given to an entirely different character.
Surely it would be a good way to finally give Ganondorf a proper moveset that suits him, while not throwing the old one away entirely.

However, given Sakurai's standards... I think that ship has sailed.
This is Ganondorf's moveset in Smash now and it'll stay that way most likely.

 

[Teeb147]

Except Sakurai might still think he would alienate people with this, if the moveset people associated with Ganondorf is suddenly given to an entirely different character.
Surely it would be a good way to finally give Ganondorf a proper moveset that suits him, while not throwing the old one away entirely.

However, given Sakurai's standards... I think that ship has sailed.
This is Ganondorf's moveset in Smash now and it'll stay that way most likely.

Well, they did give him a sword smash this time around,so that's one alteration. Maybe they'll feel like another next time too

 

[Shinuto]

it just seems weird that it got fixed? Like dont patches need to happen?

 

[Teeb147]

it just seems weird that it got fixed? Like dont patches need to happen?

What got fixed? lol

 

[Apocalypso]

What got fixed? lol

The glitch did. Only a day after my original video, someone on Twitter updated me to say that it's gone!

 

[Apocalypso]

Lol it's a bit of a stretch. I guess he thinks well if the badge needs to reflect the canon from another direction (like the up b he mentioned), it could happen if shantae was in and it's a bug from working with those things. It's a nice tin foil moment, we haven't had a lot at all in quite a while. So it's not bad to see I guess XD

I was thinking more generally that moves or characters that seem to have been bases for new DLC characters had glitches in the past. This includes Daisy as of recently, who has similar personality, body type, and heritage as Shantae.

 

[Teeb147]

I was thinking more generally that moves or characters that seem to have been bases for new DLC characters had glitches in the past. This includes Daisy as of recently, who has similar personality, body type, and heritage as Shantae.

Yeah I get it. I was just trying to point reasons why a 'base' character could have those glitches. Like why would the reflect animation change? Maybe because they needed to add something for a new direction a canon ball would shoot, in example.

Also, just a note but some people are confused about saying 'base' character, because most people think of the base as the original base they used. K. Rool wouldn't count as that, because .. .well, shantae wouldn't use his model Just like Bayo's bug was thought not to matter because capt falcon was min min's original base, and Ridley is said to be Banjo's. But duckhunt's bug could still be explained by certain animations being used for banjo because the original base isn't 'everything'. Anyway, some people don't really understand that.

The glitch did. Only a day after my original video, someone on Twitter updated me to say that it's gone!

Hmmm. I'm with shinuto I don't get how that would've happened without a patch. Just to ask, are you sure the bug worked consistently and that others were able to do it?

 

[Apocalypso]

Hmmm. I'm with shinuto I don't get how that would've happened without a patch. Just to ask, are you sure the bug worked consistently and that others were able to do it?

I followed the exact same conditions then as I did when I first discovered the glitch, and the glitch was gone. I'm not sure what happened. Maybe a hotfix was dropped out of nowhere. Age of Empires II has hotfixes to fix bugs without changing anything else, so maybe Smash does the same thing.

 

[Teeb147]

I followed the exact same conditions then as I did when I first discovered the glitch, and the glitch was gone. I'm not sure what happened. Maybe a hotfix was dropped out of nowhere. Age of Empires II has hotfixes to fix bugs without changing anything else, so maybe Smash does the same thing.

Sure. And did some other people manage to replicate it too at that time? I didn't try.
I've never heard of hotfixes for smash, so that's quite a mystery XD Who knows though.

Also, welcome around. I know you're a Shantae fan :D

 

[Apocalypso]

Sure. And did some other people manage to replicate it too at that time? I didn't try.

As far as I know, I'm the only person who experienced this glitch or even reported on it. I discovered it completely by accident, while playing against the Kaptain K. Rool Spirit. No one else seems to have realized it existed. It's not very scientific, but the full unedited video I just uploaded is proof that it was real.

Also, welcome around. I know you're a Shantae fan :D

I appreciate the welcome! I REALLY hope that Shantae gets in Smash, and I've made a bunch of videos talking about her chances. Go check them out if you get the chance! (not leaving my channel link here, since a video of mine already got posted)

 

[MeteoRain]

But at the point in time that when Melee was made, Ganondorf had very little source material to pull from. He shot an energy ball at young Link, He floated in his boss fight, he did his ground punch, and then a scatter darkness shot. So really aside from giving him a projectile based on his two energy shots, the rest of his moveset needed to be made up anyway. This was before the gamecube test footage where we saw him using a sword. His up B might as well be representing his floating and his Warlock Punch might as well be representing his powerful punch the the ground that would make the floor fall out. Based on that everything else had to be made up and the old Capt Falcon fighting style made as much sense as anything. Maybe they should have given him Mewtwo's Shadow Ball as well to represent that scatter shot, but then the rest of his moveset would need to be made up from nothing so it's just as good as what we got.

If you get super finicky, just magic balls, levitation, a quaking fist, and a transformation. Yet from the same perspective, Zelda and Sheik arguably had even less inherent potential than Ganondorf.

The former two respectively ripped spells from Link while the other just hinged on Ninja tropes while Ganondorf could of pulled ideas from the likes of Phantom Ganon, Agahnim, classic Ganon, or better yet, just been put on hold like DeDeDe or Smash 64's Bowser and Mewtwo in favor of the trident swinging blue pig he should of been all along.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If you get super finicky, just magic balls, levitation, a quaking fist, and a transformation. Yet from the same perspective, Zelda and Sheik arguably had even less inherent potential than Ganondorf.

The former two respectively ripped spells from Link while the other just hinged on Ninja tropes while Ganondorf could of pulled ideas from the likes of Phantom Ganon, Agahnim, classic Ganon, or better yet, just been put on hold like DeDeDe or Smash 64's Bowser and Mewtwo in favor of the trident swinging blue pig he should of been all along.

Looking back at it now after hearing what you said, Pig Ganon would have made more sense as a unique fighter in Melee than Ganondorf as he appeared in 5 games at that point while Ganondorf only appeared in 1 game at that time. I know they're technically the same character since Ganondorf was Ganon when he was human and before he turned into the pig demon. But turning Ganondorf into a clone/semi-clone of Captain Falcon not only screwed over Ganondorf's potential in the long run but it also possibly screwed over Pig Ganon ever getting a slot. This is one of the reasons why I want classic Pig Ganon in the roster so we can have a version of Ganon with a unique moveset. It's clear that the ship has sailed with Ganondorf and he is going to stay as a Captain Falcon semi-clone forever.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Looking back at it now after hearing what you said, Pig Ganon would have made more sense as a unique fighter in Melee than Ganondorf as he appeared in 5 games at that point while Ganondorf only appeared in 1 game at that time. I know they're technically the same character since Ganondorf was Ganon when he was human and before he turned into the pig demon. But turning Ganondorf into a clone/semi-clone of Captain Falcon not only screwed over Ganondorf's potential in the long run but it also possibly screwed over Pig Ganon ever getting a slot. This is one of the reasons why I want classic Pig Ganon in the roster so we can have a version of Ganon with a unique moveset. It's clear that the ship has sailed with Ganondorf and he is going to stay as a Captain Falcon semi-clone forever.

Did you forget that Melee had a strict deadline of 1 year?
Yes, 1 year! ONLY ONE!

It's no wonder Melee had so many clones.
Given how little time they had to actually make the game.
If they had more time, maybe we would've gotten more unique fighters.
But alas, this didn't come to pass.
And so Ganondorf being a clone of Captain Falcon, because their body types matched, was his only shot of getting in at the time.
The reason he was chosen over Ganon (other than "being too big" maybe) was simply because Ganondorf was a lot more popular at the time.
Of course he would be, with Ocarina of Time being the beloved game it was and still is today.

Besides, who decided that Ganon and Ganondorf are mutually exclusive and thus cannot co-exist in the same game?
Especially when we consider characters like Link (three Links), Zelda(Shiek) or Samus (Zero Suit Samus).
So yeah, this is nonsense.

All that's preventing Ganon from becoming a character is on Sakurai.
Either because he has no ideas for a moveset, because "he doesn't fit" or maybe even because Sakurai doesn't know about him.

 

[Dukefire]

Well, Nintendo posted this today. For those that are wondering how was Hyrule 100 years ago before Calamity Ganon, this is the game for you coming on November 20, 2020.

 

[zferolie]

Well, Nintendo posted this today. For those that are wondering how was Hyrule 100 years ago before Calamity Ganon, this is the game for you coming on November 20, 2020.

I am so hyoed for this you cannot even believe it

 

[Moderately obsessed]

Yeah I get it. I was just trying to point reasons why a 'base' character could have those glitches. Like why would the reflect animation change? Maybe because they needed to add something for a new direction a canon ball would shoot, in example.

Also, just a note but some people are confused about saying 'base' character, because most people think of the base as the original base they used. K. Rool wouldn't count as that, because .. .well, shantae wouldn't use his model Just like Bayo's bug was thought not to matter because capt falcon was min min's original base, and Ridley is said to be Banjo's. But duckhunt's bug could still be explained by certain animations being used for banjo because the original base isn't 'everything'. Anyway, some people don't really understand that.

Not to be too reachy, but K. Tool could be a base model for a large/heavy transformation of sorts...
The only problem with that is it opens a lot of weird rabbit holes where any glitches with peach, bayo, daisy, zelda, heavies, and diddy (just to name a few) will be arsenal in our craziness.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Well, Nintendo posted this today. For those that are wondering how was Hyrule 100 years ago before Calamity Ganon, this is the game for you coming on November 20, 2020.

I just hope this new Hyrule Warriors game isn't nearly as grindy as the original Hyrule Warriors.
The amount of things you have to do to complete the original is just impossible.
I got so burned out of that game, because of the grind. It just wasn't fun anymore.

I seriously hope this new game isn't like that.

 

[Teeb147]

Not to be too reachy, but K. Tool could be a base model for a large/heavy transformation of sorts...
The only problem with that is it opens a lot of weird rabbit holes where any glitches with peach, bayo, daisy, zelda, heavies, and diddy (just to name a few) will be arsenal in our craziness.

Lol, like the elephant? I don't know if they'd use another character for that, but sure it's an idea

 

[zferolie]

I just hope this new Hyrule Warriors game isn't nearly as grindy as the original Hyrule Warriors.
The amount of things you have to do to complete the original is just impossible.
I got so burned out of that game, because of the grind. It just wasn't fun anymore.

I seriously hope this new game isn't like that.

Hard to tell, but it sounds like they want this game to play unlike older warrior games, and may be pretty story focused.

 

[Moderately obsessed]

Also, don't know if it's been posted, but got a recommended youtube video about a moveset for Shantae. Fun moveset, nothing which we haven't seen or discussed before, but support is out there.

Moveset

 

[Teeb147]

Hard to tell, but it sounds like they want this game to play unlike older warrior games, and may be pretty story focused.

The trailer looks good. I might actually get it if my brother doesnt.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Seven Sirens is Milestone 23:

#WayForward30 Milestone 23: Coinciding with our 30th anniversary celebration is the console/PC release of the latest Shantae title: Shantae and the Seven Sirens! Instant transformations and an awesome intro by @trigger_inc are among the highlights of this tropical adventure. pic.twitter.com/VvmsPuFjpV

— WayForward (@WayForward) September 8, 2020

Can't say how many more milestones there's gonna be.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

So hyped for Hyrule Warriors 2. Playable Mipha is enough to sell me on any game. It will be interesting to see what this game takes from traditional warriors games and what it takes from Breath of the Wild. I only hope there will be enough to make the game rewarding to play even though we know we are heading toward a pretty grim end.

Character predictions: So, Link, Zelda and the champions are all a given, but no warriors games has had only 6 characters so... The game is clearly going to be canon, so let's not expect all the time travel shenanigans the first game had to include every fan service character ever. So we are limited to characters who would be around 100 years before BotW.

First, in one scene we see Zelda and Link Kneeling and kneeling with them is someone with long white hair. This is definitely young Impa and she will certainly be playable.

This one is a bit more out of left field, but I could see it happening because there were a few joke characters in the last game... But I'm better that instead of collecting gold skulltula like in the last game, you will be finding Koroks in the levels this time. And the reward for finding them all (or most) will be a playable Hetsu. Not saying I want this, but i can definitely see them doing it. He's ageless so it's safe to assume he would be around at that time, size wise he works better than any other Korok would, he would add elemental variety as none of the warriors are nature themed, and again, joke character.

Kind of out there but I could see Monk Maz Koshia being playable, but that might break canon.

Also Warriors love playable villains and last game made new villains based on old zelda baddies. So I'm betting on generals based on BotW boss monsters, so a Molduga, a Hinox. a Talus and a Lynel.

Lastly, I could see there being at least one character who is a nod to BotW 2. Maybe the origin of that glowing hand?

 

[Teeb147]

It'd be awesome if Impa or Mipha could be in smash

Besides Shantae of course. :O

 

[LaBeteNoire]

It'd be awesome if Impa or Mipha could be in smash

Besides Shantae of course. :O

Mipha is my most wanted Zelda character who isn't already an assist trophy. She would add another water fire to help balance how many fire users the game has and she would bring an unused weapon type to Smash. PLus she is just such a shy little fish girl, don't you want to see her do well?

 

[WingedSupernova]

I'm thinking that with this new Hyrule Warriors announcement it's likely we'll get to play as Impa from 100 years ago, and that may lead to Breath of the Wild Impa being playable in Smash. Just a small thought.

 

[zferolie]

So hyped for Hyrule Warriors 2. Playable Mipha is enough to sell me on any game. It will be interesting to see what this game takes from traditional warriors games and what it takes from Breath of the Wild. I only hope there will be enough to make the game rewarding to play even though we know we are heading toward a pretty grim end.

Character predictions: So, Link, Zelda and the champions are all a given, but no warriors games has had only 6 characters so... The game is clearly going to be canon, so let's not expect all the time travel shenanigans the first game had to include every fan service character ever. So we are limited to characters who would be around 100 years before BotW.

First, in one scene we see Zelda and Link Kneeling and kneeling with them is someone with long white hair. This is definitely young Impa and she will certainly be playable.

This one is a bit more out of left field, but I could see it happening because there were a few joke characters in the last game... But I'm better that instead of collecting gold skulltula like in the last game, you will be finding Koroks in the levels this time. And the reward for finding them all (or most) will be a playable Hetsu. Not saying I want this, but i can definitely see them doing it. He's ageless so it's safe to assume he would be around at that time, size wise he works better than any other Korok would, he would add elemental variety as none of the warriors are nature themed, and again, joke character.

Kind of out there but I could see Monk Maz Koshia being playable, but that might break canon.

Also Warriors love playable villains and last game made new villains based on old zelda baddies. So I'm betting on generals based on BotW boss monsters, so a Molduga, a Hinox. a Talus and a Lynel.

Lastly, I could see there being at least one character who is a nod to BotW 2. Maybe the origin of that glowing hand?

I think young Impa is a sure thing, and that was her back in the trailer. As for anyone else maybe the Zora king, some other gerudos or some villains. Otherwise maybe there will be other characters from other games, but not part of the story.

It'd be awesome if Impa or Mipha could be in smash

Besides Shantae of course. :O

I am a big Urbosa fan, and would go nuts for her in smash. Mipha is my second, and i would love impa too and i can see her as eothe unique or echo of shiek.

 

[Teeb147]

I think young Impa is a sure thing, and that was her back in the trailer. As for anyone else maybe the Zora king, some other gerudos or some villains. Otherwise maybe there will be other characters from other games, but not part of the story.



I am a big Urbosa fan, and would go nuts for her in smash. Mipha is my second, and i would love impa too and i can see her as eothe unique or echo of shiek.

Saw Urbosa in the trailer, she'd be cool. And personally I don't think that Impa would be great as an echo, I want her to have her weapons, or at least one. But also there's probably no point of talking about echos for dlc

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Seven Sirens is Milestone 23:

#WayForward30 Milestone 23: Coinciding with our 30th anniversary celebration is the console/PC release of the latest Shantae title: Shantae and the Seven Sirens! Instant transformations and an awesome intro by @trigger_inc are among the highlights of this tropical adventure. pic.twitter.com/VvmsPuFjpV

— WayForward (@WayForward) September 8, 2020

Can't say how many more milestones there's gonna be.

Yeah, we most likely get Marble Knights after this. So unless they pull a hat trick, they'll have to go back.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Like I said, i'm just hoping the new Hyrule Warriors won't be nearly as grindy as the first and its definitive edition.
Which was my least favourite part about Hyrule Warriors and easily the thing that made the game no longer fun to play.
So I hope they at least dialed that down in Age of Calamity.

Speaking of the story...
I mean we know how it's going to end.
Still, I can imagine, to not let the story end in such a hopeless note, the finale will be Zelda facing Ganon and sealing him away.
Or maybe that'd be the penultimate chapter and the final chapter is just the final battle of Breath of the Wild remade in Hyrule Warriors.
Maybe there are even alternate endings where the champions win and Ganon is beaten then and there?

I wouldn't be opposed to that. :D

 

[Teeb147]

Like I said, i'm just hoping the new Hyrule Warriors won't be nearly as grindy as the first and its definitive edition.
Which was my least favourite part about Hyrule Warriors and easily the thing that made the game no longer fun to play.
So I hope they at least dialed that down in Age of Calamity.

I get the feeling it won't be as grindy, from what I saw, but who knows. It's one reason I feel like getting it it has more going on, I think.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

I'm thinking that with this new Hyrule Warriors announcement it's likely we'll get to play as Impa from 100 years ago, and that may lead to Breath of the Wild Impa being playable in Smash. Just a small thought.

It's certainly possible, tho I personally would like a new Zelda rep to be as different from the existing ones as possible, meaning a different species. Tho I could still see it happening. A lot of people wanted last HW Impa in, but I feel that was never going to happen since he design and everything came from outside Nintendo development. This Impa tho wouldn't have that issue since KT are working with the art, design, and creator oversee of the BotW team.

It will be interesting to find out what comes of all of this. Either way we are getting an update on the game on the 26th.

 

[zferolie]

Saw Urbosa in the trailer, she'd be cool. And personally I don't think that Impa would be great as an echo, I want her to have her weapons, or at least one. But also there's probably no point of talking about echos for dlc

Yeah impa would be great pulling from all the different impas from various games for smash, but i could have seen her working as a shiek clone with her Skyward sword design. Still, i doubt we would get exhos unless they are bonuses, which could happen who knows. Honestly i still feel a ms pac man free echo couldnhappen now that namco has her rigjts fully back.

Like I said, i'm just hoping the new Hyrule Warriors won't be nearly as grindy as the first and its definitive edition.
Which was my least favourite part about Hyrule Warriors and easily the thing that made the game no longer fun to play.
So I hope they at least dialed that down in Age of Calamity.

Speaking of the story...
I mean we know how it's going to end.
Still, I can imagine, to not let the story end in such a hopeless note, the finale will be Zelda facing Ganon and sealing him away.
Or maybe that'd be the penultimate chapter and the final chapter is just the final battle of Breath of the Wild remade in Hyrule Warriors.
Maybe there are even alternate endings where the champions win and Ganon is beaten then and there?

I wouldn't be opposed to that. :D

Oh yeah there will be depressing parts for sure. We will see all the champions die for sure, maybe even play as them as they die, ala halo reach. That would be depressing.

An ending whete we are doing the final battle in BotW in this games style would be cool. Maybe even have something tieing to the sequal? Who knows

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

I'm thinking that with this new Hyrule Warriors announcement it's likely we'll get to play as Impa from 100 years ago, and that may lead to Breath of the Wild Impa being playable in Smash. Just a small thought.

Sigh...
Why does everything have to connect to Smash? <<

 

[Teeb147]

Well no other game is super relevant right now, so it's not bad as an idea for smash

That said, Shantae is kinda relevant too right now XD

 

[meleebrawler]

Can't forget that most of the Hyrule Warriors original characters don't really need to heed canon, so we can still see ones like Lana, Cia and Linkle. Not to mention you don't even need have a role in the plot, side-story or otherwise to be playable, like most of the late-added characters in the first game.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Well no other game is super relevant right now, so it's not bad as an idea for smash

Uhm...
Super Mario 3D All Stars?
Pikmin 3 Deluxe?
Not to mention new indie releases?