Semi-new AT: Close range ledge sweetspot (needs exploring)

[Pierce7d]

Alright, so we already learned that Marth has a technique that allows him to initiate Dolphin Slash very near the edge, and it will cause him to auto-snap the edge without actually activiting Dolphin Slash.

Well, through playing various characters, I've learned that Dolphin Slash isn't the only move with this property. For fact, Mario's cape has it. Also, though I was too stupid to save the replay, I swear I did something very similar with SNAKE'S CYPHER! I also seemed to have done it with Ganon's SideB.

In short, this technique causes a character near the ledge to autosnap the ledge immediately after initiating certain special moves, with particular spacing near the ledge. It sweetspots before you would actually grab the edge, and it gives you earlier invincibility frames. For Marth, it helps him refresh the edge faster. With Mario, I use it to grab the edge from farther away, and refresh the edge faster. It doesn't sound useful at first, but it really has payed off for me in combat.

I still need to collect a lot more data on this technique, but just a heads up to those of you that are good with this kind of thing like me that it's out there.

For those of you that work better with a visual, I don't have the resources to make a video, but here's the video that we have for Marth, so you get an idea of how this tech looks with at least Marth, and how it might be useful for all characters that have it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR5rifkmIm8&feature=related

Naturally, my next course of action will be to test a lot of special moves and see which ones will sweetspot the edge from close. Wario mains, cross your fingers, lol.

 

[Llumys]

Let the testing begin!

 

[CT Chia]

ROB can do it somewhat if your more horizontal to the ledge can not below it. Like when you let go of the ledge do so by hitting back (then upB'ing right away) instead of pressing down. If you go down then upB chances are you wont sweetspot it. I still need more testing to find out exactly how fast it is, but it's almost the exact same thing Marth was doing in that vid. It's just that ROB is a slow *** oaf of a character and falls as fast as molasses so the effect isn't as fast as a Marth's would be, though still faster than any ledge regrab maneuver he has. I believe it also wastes gas, so that's another prob.

 

[Pierce7d]

ROB can do it somewhat if your more horizontal to the ledge can not below it. Like when you let go of the ledge do so by hitting back (then upB'ing right away) instead of pressing down. If you go down then upB chances are you wont sweetspot it. I still need more testing to find out exactly how fast it is, but it's almost the exact same thing Marth was doing in that vid. It's just that ROB is a slow *** oaf of a character and falls as fast as molasses so the effect isn't as fast as a Marth's would be, though still faster than any ledge regrab maneuver he has. I believe it also wastes gas, so that's another prob.

I'm not doubting you before I test it, but are you sure that this isn't just a regular UpB sweetspot?

 

[AvoiD]

I've done this before, plenty of times, but I never thought I could re-create it, so I left it alone. Good stuff though Pierce.

I think Diddy can do it to? But idk, I guess you don't really need it for him that much. <.<

 

[CT Chia]

I'm not doubting you before I test it, but are you sure that this isn't just a regular UpB sweetspot?

Yea I wasn't sure what I was thinking in part of my post, upB sweetspots generally no matter what time you use it for the most part, his upB is different than most characters. But it's using it in the fashion in falling back from the ledge that you can do it right away and sweetspot the ledge almost instantly from the very start of the upB. The invincibility frames and such look almost identical to what Marth can pull off, so while it's not the same sort of AT it is for a character like Marth, ROB can do the same thing in like a non-AT fashion lol.

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5A4yGQOynI

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS' up+b (Plasma Wire) has this property, it's weird. Basically if you're ZSS and you drop away from the ledge while the tehter is retracting and hit Up+B immediately she snaps the ledge from a pretty big distance immediately... at least I think that's how it works.

 

[Browny]

this has been known for a very long time lol,

im sure each character who can do it has brought it up in their respective threads. Its borderline useless with snake, to sweespot the ledge with his upb, you have to be so close such that he would normally ledgesnap anyway. Its good if the enemy is ledgehogging such that you dont fall beneath the stage, but in that circumstance you would have simply gotten cypher grabbed or spike :/

 

[Pierce7d]

this has been known for a very long time lol

Oh I'm sure. I've been doing it with Mario and Marth for ages and ages, but that doesn't mean that this technique is widely known, or if it's been fully explored. There could be moves that sweepspot we don't even know about.

 

[Nanaki]

I might be a bit off base, but after watching the vid and hearing you describe it, I think I've done this with Pit fairly often. I think he can snap before the 'wings' animation actually comes out, which is pretty useful for him as that move has a massive snap range.

 

[Pierce7d]

I might be a bit off base, but after watching the vid and hearing you describe it, I think I've done this with Pit fairly often. I think he can snap before the 'wings' animation actually comes out, which is pretty useful for him as that move has a massive snap range.

I'm pretty sure that this is Pit's natural autosnap. WOI is just that good. It also has an amazing windbox on it. I'm well versed in Pit, as my brother is the best Pit (trust me, he is)

 

[Miles.]

I'm pretty sure that this is Pit's natural autosnap. WOI is just that good. It also has an amazing windbox on it. I'm well versed in Pit, as my brother is the best Pit (trust me, he is)

What is his Tag? Id love to see vids.

 

[Psychoace]

Falcon kinda has something like this, at least on FD. Ledgehog > wall jump from the corners of the stage > raptor boost.

The raptor boost isn't really shown so it's like falcon wall jumps and then grabs the edge again. I think we have a video floating around somewhere on the falcon boards.. It's not hard to do though to see what i'm talking about.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

This is like the 'new' ganonplanking, in it sideb auto snaps too

 

[TX7Killian]

That happens to me with Snake, but it was a bit strager - I was falling from above and didn't know "wehe, im offstage wtf" immediately after I get it I push for sure Up+B. Snake grabbed the Edge, but the sound from the cypher was there lol

 

[saviorslegacy]

This is like the 'new' ganonplanking, in it sideb auto snaps too

*stole my words

I believe I have done this with Sheik before.
So what is this input? ledge drop> double jump> Up B?

 

[Praxis]

Pick Jigglypuff.

Grab the ledge.

Wait a second.

Really quickly, tap away and forward-B as close as you possibly can to each other.

Jigglypuff will side-B under the stage lip then autosnap back up to the ledge, from what looks like a bit too far.

Is this at all related?

 

[Prawn]

I might try IC's specials but I doubt it'll work.

Maybe D3 waddletoss?

 

[Nanaki]

I'm pretty sure that this is Pit's natural autosnap. WOI is just that good. It also has an amazing windbox on it. I'm well versed in Pit, as my brother is the best Pit (trust me, he is)

Yeah, I'm aware that it has a huge autosnap range and an awesome windbox, but I thought I had seen it snap before any sound or animation occurred. Usually you hear the 'PING!' and see the wings pop out, then he snaps.

I could be wrong, though.

Who's your bro? Does he play in tourney at all?

 

[TheMike]

Hmm.. i was going to say exactly what Chibo said :[

And nice video. :]

 

[SamuraiPanda]

It does indeed work with Snake's cypher. I can mostly do it whenever I want (as can Ally), although I feel its entirely useless for him since he doesn't get any appreciable boost from it.

 

[ch33s3]

The ICs' Belay has some weird properties if you ledgedrop/jump and then upb right away. You can do some weird stuff. It's worth playing with, I've been exploring it quite a bit.

 

[Baby Cowz]

This post has been deleted: code = 12

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[mountain_tiger]

I do this with Peach a lot. It's pretty useful IMO.

 

[Pierce7d]

Accidental Double Post

 

[Pierce7d]

It does indeed work with Snake's cypher. I can mostly do it whenever I want (as can Ally), although I feel its entirely useless for him since he doesn't get any appreciable boost from it.

Cool. What I did sounds exactly what the person on the last page did, so it was really weird. I'll have Ally show me this weekend.

Yeah, I'm aware that it has a huge autosnap range and an awesome windbox, but I thought I had seen it snap before any sound or animation occurred. Usually you hear the 'PING!' and see the wings pop out, then he snaps.

I could be wrong, though.

Who's your bro? Does he play in tourney at all?

He prefers to be unknown, and despite the fact that he's stupidly good, and barely even practices, he doesn't like Brawl that much. Pit loses too strongly to MK for him to ever actually win, so for a while he picked up MK, but he didn't really enjoy playing (his MK is pretty good too). Now he's back to Pit and Wario (his Wario is slightly above average, it goes even with my MK), but he doesn't enter singles, and only attends tourneys to play doubles. He is static partners with the Fox main, R00kie. He never posts on the Pit boards, because he feels like their metagame is too far behind. I told him this was pretty stupid, and he could just help advance the Pit metagame faster (like I did with Marth) but he's lazy about it. He discovered the weak Bair to footstool gimp AGES before anyone started doing it, and his strategies are just really solid.

He used to play in tourney back in the day, but not singles anymore. There are a couple of videos of him, but they're really old, and don't reflect his current skill.

He prefers not really to be known, even though I think he's the best Pit, and prefers to hoard his knowledge of the character, so I won't post his name here, but I'm sure you could find it with some digging around for those of you that really care.

This seems somewhat similar to what Bigman found a while back. He described it as B sticking the ledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di_D9B5FX2A&feature=player_profilepage#

If it seems worthwhile you can get a hold of him at the Yoshi Chat:
http://xat.com/chat/room/58501333/

This does look like what I'm looking for. So Yoshi's downB does it as well. Makes sense, since that move sweetspots the ledge naturally. It's likely that Pit's UpB does it as well, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Bowser's UpB or DownB to it as well.

 

[SuSa]

You can do it with Snake as TX7 points out.

I do it time from time on purpose, but for Snake it's rather useless.

EDIT:
Reading Page 2 and seeing Panda's post would've helped. lol

 

[JUDGE]

as far as i know falco can do that with his sideB
i will post the video link later
have ta find it first^^

 

[Psychoace]

This does look like what I'm looking for. So Yoshi's downB does it as well. Makes sense, since that move sweetspots the ledge naturally. It's likely that Pit's UpB does it as well, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Bowser's UpB or DownB to it as well.

Ah if that's the case Falcon's raptor boost can do that. You raptor boost away from the stage.

 

[SuSa]

Pit's up-B works. 90% Ganon can with his side-B, if Ganon can I'd think Falcon can.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

planking techs! lol

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Yoshi can do this with his double jump too, pretty close to ledge.