Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Zano]

adapters yeah, bundles no

 

[Random4811]

Having played most of Marth's games, I always found his personality to be very solemn, dignified, mature, and yet remaining humble. It makes sense given his character; that of a noble heir whose kingdom was betrayed and his father killed while still young. Very apt, considering his army was built upon ashes and comprised of only the loyal and defeated who still wish to offer their aid.



You're probably joking about his taunt, but I've always interpreted it as him saying "Watch over me", "See how far I've come?", or "Your sacrifices will not be forgotten." The literal translation doesn't do the line much justice. I feel the context and significance is lost between languages as it comes off senselessly conceited in English. I find it to be far more poetic if you were to envision it as if he's speaking to his fallen comrades.

That or he's a vain, spoiled prince with a sword, both work.

But if you play the game right, none of his comrades /have/ to fall. (other than the decoy in shadow dragon.) I much prefer the "everybody watch me/watch this" translation. It is a fitting taunt for a fight. I love Marth. Loved him since Melee, Shadow Dragon just strengthened that love. He's a cool dude. I don't think he's not one to celebrate a victory or smile every once in a while.
I mean, he did celebrate victories with his comrades and such. And he was very close to those comrades, finding joy in their company.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Having played most of Marth's games, I always found his personality to be very solemn, dignified, mature, and yet remaining humble. It makes sense given his character; that of a noble heir whose kingdom was betrayed and his father killed while still young. Very apt, considering his army was built upon ashes and comprised of only the loyal and defeated who still wish to offer their aid.



You're probably joking about his taunt, but I've always interpreted it as him saying "Watch over me", "See how far I've come?", or "Your sacrifices will not be forgotten." The literal translation doesn't do the line much justice. I feel the context and significance is lost between languages as it comes off senselessly conceited in English. I find it to be far more poetic if you were to envision it as if he's speaking to his fallen comrades.

That or he's a vain, spoiled prince with a sword, both work.

I tend to think him this way as well: a lot of his "fans" portray him as a pansy and fabulous prince (lol), but the Lord's true personality makes me really respect him and regret he's still this way in most western depictions. He's in control of his feelings too, which I like: it makes him feel mature and composed. However, he possesses that humble and a bit naive good heart inside like he was before the war times. I might think him boasting could play on being bit smug. (Top Tier for every appearance he's been in Smash)

 

[Owangepuffs]

Given Marth's personality, I always translated his down taunt as "Everyone, watch over me." as opposed to "Everyone, look at me

 

[Wraeith]

But if you play the game right, none of his comrades /have/ to fall. (other than the decoy in shadow dragon.) I much prefer the "everybody watch me/watch this" translation. It is a fitting taunt for a fight. I love Marth. Loved him since Melee, Shadow Dragon just strengthened that love. He's a cool dude. I don't think he's not one to celebrate a victory or smile every once in a while.
I mean, he did celebrate victories with his comrades and such. And he was very close to those comrades, finding joy in their company.

I was speaking in general. In Smash, Marth is in a strange universe given absolutely no reason or justification for his or the presence of others he's never seen before. In that sense, everyone he's known is lost, hence it's obvious why he'd say "Everyone, watch over me."

Also I believe the prologue in Shadow Dragon forces you to sacrifice a party member if you wish to be overly literal. It's entirely possible to play the games without losing anyone, but then you're missing out on the emotional impact and the toll of war. If they had intended for you to play the games without anyone dying, it would have just been a forced fail-state, but instead people just reset if they make a mistake and ruin the experience somewhat.

 

[Shaya]

Btw, is anyone able to test for me (it's something you need two people/controllers/3dses for).

What moves do we have that actually hit people hanging on the ledge from on stage?
I played a set recently against a Sheik which I practically had to be standing on top of her/the ledge to have down tilt hit. I would like to be able to hit someone who regrabs the ledge as safely as possible (seriously dtilt not hitting is a load of ****ing bull **** I'd say, but maybe there's a spacing that it does).

I could down tilt people hanging on the ledge without invincibility in brawl, seriously, if Marth cannot hit people unless it's some 60 frame move (smash attacks) I'm going to be very very upset; especially as I'm watching a set where a Diddy Kong's able to down tilt a distance away from the ledge and HIT PEOPLE RECOVERING/attempting to sweet spot and I almost felt ill with frustration.

 

[Foodies]

You have to be unsafely close to the ledge to hit hanging people with anything as Marth now. From my pre-patch testing on the 3DS: fsmash, dtilt, and dsmash can hit the ledge. Fsmash has the most range out of those of course, but the cooldown makes it unusable in general outside a read. Ftilt can hit characters that have their head poking up (ex: Mario). I forgot if jab can hit those types of characters, but you'd also have to be unsafely close for it to work anyway.

I miss dtilt poking people at max range on the ledge very much. I haven't figured out a good way to ledgetrap as Marth in this game.

 

[Shaya]

I would prefer actual sit down testing, with pictures/videos; not conjecture.
Where is down tilt hitting them? At body range? Tipper range in some weird cases?

Considering how many hours I sit around testing things I CAN TEST, for the love of ****ing almighty there has to be one non lazy person willing to help me out for once (and it isn't even helping just me, this is information everyone will be able to use).

 

[Foodies]

"From my pre-patch testing"

I tested it with a friend a while ago. Sorry I don't have photos/video.

Edit: No tipper range for the dtilt. You will be in get up attack range at the distance it hits.
Edit2: Going to test it on the Wii U right now and get snapshots.

Results: Memory was wrong - looks like it has to be a tipper to hit. I just remember it doing less than 10% but that was probably because I had staled it before. Here's a photo of the distance it hits at. (I couldn't see how to transfer the actual snapshot since it seems to be in a .bin)

It basically won't hit if you are even slightly closer or farther from that. The spacing is incredibly strict.

 

[Locuan]

Excuse the phone pictures, it is what I can do at the moment.
Testing Parameters:

• Both controllers: Gamecube
• Player 1: Marth
• Player 2: Shiek
• Stage: Battlefield
• Corner: Right
• Moves: D-tilt, F-smash, D-smash

F-Smash and D-Tilt:

Both the F-smash and the D-Tilt will hit and tipper from this range. NOTE: D-tilt will not hit any closer from this range.

F-smash can hit closer and without tipper until:

D-smash:

Note: D-Smash will not hit after that range.
D-smash Miss:

If there are any other moves you guys would like me to test out let me know. (Spoiler tags and images act all funky can't get them to work).

 

[Shaya]

Is there differences between sheik and other characters (like their hurtboxes that exist on stage?)
If you compare pictures it looks like sheik's hand is 'smaller' than Marth's here.

Is the range Marth can stand at safe enough to avoid get up attacks by some/many characters?

Does DB1/2 (forward) hit?
Dash attack?

 

[Locuan]

Let me test it out and I'll get back to you. Regarding the second question, from experience I want to say yes. However, I want to test before giving a certain answer.

 

[Shaya]

This may be one of those things where Lucina might be slightly different. I wonder if her slighter shorter build makes her stabs slightly lower

 

[Locuan]

More Data incoming:

F-smash Tipper Range on Mario

DB1-2 Hit Zone on Mario (They do hit):

Mario Missing his Getup Attack on Fsmash Tipper Range:

Location of Sword on edge against Mario:

Bowser Fsmash Tipper Range hit:

Bowser Getup Attack Hitting on Fsmash Tipper Range:

Tipper Dash Attack Hit Against Bowser:

Bowser getting Hit by Tipper F-smash on edge:

Summary:
It seems hurt-boxes on ledges do matter depending on the character. Funnily enough, I do not know if it is my brain playing games on me but you seem to have to get a few pixels closer to the edge in order to hit Bowser with the tippered F-smash when compared to Mario. If anyone can try and recreate this that would be awesome because I'm around 50/50 in thinking I might have been wrong. But after testing for a while it seems to be the case.

Regarding Mario's getup attack missing, in the image it might seem to you that, on F-smash range, Marth is a bit behind compared to the first image regarding the range. If that is the case it might be one of either two things:

1. Camera angle by both my phone and the game.
2. Windox on Mario's getup attack moving Marth slightly back?

Now why do I put these two instead of mentioning that I might have taken the pictures incorrectly spaced etc. Well because I performed the getup attack after the first picture was taken so it was at that range originally. So it must be one of both mentioned above.

NOTE: Getting the precise range for the start of the Dash attack in order to hit is very difficult in order to test since I'm basically controlling two characters by myself. If anyone else could do that it would be more accurate.

 

[Random4811]

I was speaking in general. In Smash, Marth is in a strange universe given absolutely no reason or justification for his or the presence of others he's never seen before. In that sense, everyone he's known is lost, hence it's obvious why he'd say "Everyone, watch over me."

Also I believe the prologue in Shadow Dragon forces you to sacrifice a party member if you wish to be overly literal. It's entirely possible to play the games without losing anyone, but then you're missing out on the emotional impact and the toll of war. If they had intended for you to play the games without anyone dying, it would have just been a forced fail-state, but instead people just reset if they make a mistake and ruin the experience somewhat.

I did say "save for the decoy in shadow dragon."
IMHO, If you DON'T save everyone, you're missing out. You miss out on a lot of dialogue and character building and world building by losing those characters. Just because characters can die doesn't mean you should let them. You lose a lot in terms of gameplay and in terms of story when any one character dies.
In the sense that it is a taunt, I think it makes sense for it to be "Everyone, Watch me!/Watch this!" because he's about to do something awesome. That makes sense to me.

 

[Shaya]

So dancing blade is perhaps one of our better anti-ledge holding options then (if both/more of the hits) can swipe people.

That's good/interesting, I was struggling to see what situations (if any) that you would use db2 forward or db3 downwards, but if they're hitting people on the ledge at a safe-ish distance, that's exactly why they exist.

 

[Locuan]

safe-ish distance

Mario and Bowser can both hit Marth at the DB1-2 Range. Additionally, both of those move Marth a bit forward so I do not know if to call it safe-ish I would go with risky-ish

 

[Shaya]

Well there's get up attacks, and then there's also ledge drop aerials.

It may be a result of invincibility from the ledge carrying over, but I don't think ledge get up attacks are invincible once the attack is out (may be also character dependent).

If someone let's us get to Dancing Blade 4 downwards while hanging on the ledge I'd guess they wouldn't have an easy way off of it unless they wait (like bowser/zard flame throwers).

 

[Emblem Lord]

Might be better to just go for the trump.

 

[Shaya]

Quick Hogging is still a thing, but it's pretty finicky on the 3DS at least. Definitely something to work on (spacing well enough for all get up options and taking weakness as a speed hog opportunity).

If you want a consistent camera angle, have a third character standing on a platform a little bit to the left, then attacks won't skew it.

Still, I would've really hoped that we could poke someone holding onto a ledge. Invincible hands/feet/protruding body parts does try my patience, even if they are 'necessary' to have non-sword characters actually viable at all.

 

[Locuan]

True, there are multiple possibilities: getup attacks, ledge drop aerials, roll, stand, jump. It will depend on what option the opponent takes. Assuming those are all of the options from the ledge, and assuming that getup attacks and ledge drops aerials would all hit against a Marth, we would still be "safe-ish" 60% of the time if they did not go for an attack option. And from those attack options, as we have seen before, some of them do miss so that percentage would be even higher. At the end of the day it comes down to the bare basics, spacing and reading your opponent.

 

[Snailtopus]

Is it impossible to dolphin slash OoS if tap jump is turned off?

 

[Icyie]

You can press Up + jump + B if i'm not mistake. At least, that's what i do.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

*Sigh* Just when I was thinking nearly all of us on this website was nice I take a look a the Link Boards and see a bunch of egotistical ***holes who are just putting someone down when someone asks for help.

 

[Zano]

Sounds like my kind of place

I never expect anything from link players, especially a forum for them considering you will never hear anything about them results wise outside of like 2 ever.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I wonder what other character boards are full of those types of players? I feel bad for any Link players who want to get better with him. One person got mad at someone for trying to find help because they never asked for any sort of help. Might as well not even have this website by that logic, because I'm pretty sure a majority of us are here to interact with the community and get better, which they seem to literally ant the opposite. Then when a few people call them out on that one of them starts trying to defend them by saying the guy who posted videos didn't want any help and was just trying to show off, which is then torn down by the person who posted the videos saying they were looking for help, not trying to show off.

Edit: Well, to my surprise all of the hate died down and people began to actually help out.

 

[Shaya]

I just realised it's too late, 3DS is dead, but
Marth can short hop double aerial on yoshi's island due to slopes
Should've been picking this stage, ALL THE TIME.

If a character board community is a bit septic, people can let me know, I bulldoze souls as a hobby.
But either way, Marth boards are, and always will be, god tier. We're harsh but we don't hold grudges, if you want to learn and you want to ask the right questions we'll give you everything.

 

[Zano]

well, they'll help you.

I'll just sit here and tell you the character is awful but looks cool swinging a shiny sword around.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hmm. So why are you still here?

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Hmm. So why are you still here?

Who are you talking to?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Zano is who i am referring too

 

[Shaya]

He's still a complete Marth fanboy.
But now is the token edgey teen wangst comic relief character in our ever evolving conquest drama.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

*sigh* I give up, the people on the Link board no they are being negative and just being ***holes, they just don't seem to care and give baseless arguments that are FULL of irony and 80% of their arguments are nothing but insults. I swear it is like asking for help on GFAQs, you will get some people to help,but everyone else shows why there are so many people who don't want to even be associated with the FGC.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Some probably asked this already so excused me if I brought this up again,but is anyone finding full hop double fair fast fall to be a legit tactic in this game? I'm asking because I get away doing it most of the time,at least on the players I played from on For Glory. :0

 

[Shaya]

Full hop rising fair is very safe and the reason it's good because you can [re]act to things with just about every action. I've been harping that from day 1

 

[Zano]

He's still a complete Marth fanboy.
But now is the token edgey teen wangst comic relief character in our ever evolving conquest drama.

What the kangaroo rider said. I'm eternally stuck to this character, but I will never admit he's good, cuz admitting is accepting.

 

[Random4811]

So.. Shaya is our Dre, and Zano is our Shady? I guess that makes Emblem our Em.. Which fits.

 

[warionumbah2]

We're harsh but we don't hold grudges, i

and that's why i always come back here you guys aren't pansies.

 

[Zano]

we're weaboos tho, and that's just as bad

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

we're weaboos tho, and that's just as bad

I don't really watch anime that much though . I really only watch the more action oriented anime, but "Durarara!" is the only anime I like (though I have not watched passed episode 13 due to people saying it fell apart after episode 13) that isn't focused on action, though it still does have a lot of action scenes.

Besides that, what color palettes do you like to use for Marth? My favorite color palette is Red Marth for two reasons:

1. I generally pick the red color in fighting games.

2. Ken is one of my favorite pro players.