Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Quickhero]

Since most tier list for most fighters come from SRK I guess that means you dont trust 90% of tier lists ever made.

Yun is a monster to answer your question.

Well, I got more of the fan made tier lists when I searched up "USFIV tier lists" so seeing Yun all over the place made me wonder the validity of the site since I thought it was just some EventHubs thing lol.

I know a lot of the pros make their tier lists on SHORYUKEN, but even then sometimes they say some stupid stuff. Like back in 2012 somebody (I THINK Combofiend) said that Phoenix is the best character in UMvC3, which was complete crap because Morrigan dominated the tournament scene and she **** on her life. <.<

 

[Vipermoon]

Just would like to point out that Dair is another one of those moves with hitbox issues. It needs hitboxes for frame 14.

 

[A17]

Thanks for clarifying that, guys.

It would've been strange if it really did strike a person down like Link.

 

[Locuan]

I went 3-2 in my EVO pool with Marth. Lost to a Greninja and a Shulk.

 

[PSI_Powerhouse]

I'm new to marth (I main ness) anybody got any tips, all i know is what was in zero's youtube video, which was great, but was brief. I know how to edgeguard, but I have problems approaching, and I don't know any combos except for chaining Uair's, which really only works on battlefield for me.

 

[Admiral_Dante]

I'm new to marth (I main ness) anybody got any tips, all i know is what was in zero's youtube video, which was great, but was brief. I know how to edgeguard, but I have problems approaching, and I don't know any combos except for chaining Uair's, which really only works on battlefield for me.

There's a couple tutorials out there on youtube and whatnot, and the competitive resource thread is a good start for AT's and tips and data: http://smashboards.com/threads/read-me-marths-competitive-resource-thread.382874/
I highly recommend you watch a few Marth vids in SSB4 to get a better feel of Marth and how he works in this game. Maybe Ally, but I like Mr. E, Airvault and WhiteRicey (idk if he has any youtube vids atm).

But just to prepare you, going from Ness to Marth is quite a jump, especially in this game. Unless you already have solid fundamentals and know Marth basics, you will have to develop a whole different set of tools to play Marth effectively imo. You'll probably lose a lot of matches at first, but people on these boards can always help you out if you hit roadblocks.

Addressing your post: You can start off by walking a lot more. You have all of your options available to you as you walk (shield, ftilt, dtilt, specials, etc.) Marth's aerials are laggy and his dash attack is pretty meh. So walk, and learn to use dtilt a lot and how to punish be rolled behind when using it. Get comfortable with ftilt and Dancing Blade as well.

For combos, you have a few things to mess around with, but Marth is generally a spacing and trap character in this game. While his combos are minimal, they take a good bit of practice to pull off in live matches imo. There's a thread that lists a good amount of his true combos, but here are some basic ones you should probably know:

-Dthrow to up air or back air at low percents
-Fast Fall, low to the ground uair into u tilt, fsmash, another uair, etc. depending on percent. You can use this to punish laggy moves or rolls while you are coming from the air.
-jab1 into... so many things. Probably Marth's best move now. Can setup air dodge traps leading into fsmash. It true combos into fsmash around 130. You can also combo it into ftilt, DB, fair and other things at lower percents.
-Fast fall, first hit only of nair combos into various things depending on the percent. At low percent I would go for grabs or dtilt. Higher percents usmash, or Dolphin Slash. Definitely one of Marth's harder to use combo starters.

There's obviously more, but you can mess around with those for a while.

 

[PSI_Powerhouse]

Thanks, especially for naming examples of good marth players, i'm going to watch some of those videos tonight. And for how it's a big jump from ness to marth, I know it is, but since it's a big jump, most of my opponents won't expect me to switch to marth, nor know how I would play as him as for my playstyle with marth would be different from my playstyle with ness. As for why I chose marth instead of anybody else, I just found him so fun in this game for some reason, which is funny, because I didn't like him in brawl even though in brawl he was better.

 

[Zorcey]

What matchups do you typically opt for Lucina over Marth, if any? I've been wondering if there are times when it would be most practical to optimize the damage on non-tippered hits. I would think a good Marth should be able to properly space any character, but landing tippers on a Sonic is challenging for anyone, so I'm uncertain.

 

[Admiral_Dante]

What matchups do you typically opt for Lucina over Marth, if any? I've been wondering if there are times when it would be most practical to optimize the damage on non-tippered hits. I would think a good Marth should be able to properly space any character, but landing tippers on a Sonic is challenging for anyone, so I'm uncertain.

I don't go for Lucina ever. I admit that Sheik and Sonic may have tempted me for a bit, but in the end I think that the chance of a crispy fsmash makes it worth it to stay Marth. Like in Ally's match with Mr. R.

Thanks, especially for naming examples of good marth players, i'm going to watch some of those videos tonight. And for how it's a big jump from ness to marth, I know it is, but since it's a big jump, most of my opponents won't expect me to switch to marth, nor know how I would play as him as for my playstyle with marth would be different from my playstyle with ness. As for why I chose marth instead of anybody else, I just found him so fun in this game for some reason, which is funny, because I didn't like him in brawl even though in brawl he was better.

I see. I guess I'm spoiled, I've been playing Marth since melee and he's always been really good. Now, he's good but in a more subtle way. His last set of buffs was all he needed imo. Jab1 is so good.

 

[Gamegenie222]

What matchups do you typically opt for Lucina over Marth, if any? I've been wondering if there are times when it would be most practical to optimize the damage on non-tippered hits. I would think a good Marth should be able to properly space any character, but landing tippers on a Sonic is challenging for anyone, so I'm uncertain.

I tend to use Lucina for Pikachu actually, haven't use her against Sonic yet.

 

[Moydow]

For Sonic or Sheik I tend to skip Marth/Lucina entirely and just go ZSS instead, but that's just what's been working best for me. Even then though, I wouldn't use Lucina at all - if I'm choosing between swordsmen, it's either Marth or Roy.

Pikachu is just awkward in general, but I rarely ever fight any, so I can't really comment on that.

 

[Shaya]

Footstool dolphin slash works ... not sure if it's character selective but it does.
To top it off it often results in the vertical knock back.

 

[kj22]

Footstool dolphin slash works ... not sure if it's character selective but it does.
To top it off it often results in the vertical knock back.

wut? how does...
*blank stare* I guess I'll need to test that out. Footstooling "goes through shields", so that's an amazing option to counter them. I can see it being used to punish a read neutral get up to shield without having to overcommit. Wonder what % it kills at?

and does footstool spike still work in this game?

Dancing blade tipper can killlll

I'm pretty sure uncharged shieldbreaker is marth's strongest "aerial" lmao

Falling wavebounced db is gorgeous for landings

Shaya give me vids of your gorgeous marth.

Shaya 100$ marth gets buffed next patch

 

[Locuan]

Shaya give me vids of your gorgeous marth.

Instead of that, let's try to convince him to come to Texas again!

 

[Ecchin]

hey guys i've been playing marth since game release but i don't feel any improvement with him, and also in my country there's not Marcina mains, any tips for improve my game with Marth?

 

[Vipermoon]

wut? how does...
*blank stare* I guess I'll need to test that out. Footstooling "goes through shields", so that's an amazing option to counter them. I can see it being used to punish a read neutral get up to shield without having to overcommit. Wonder what % it kills at?

and does footstool spike still work in this game?

Dancing blade tipper can killlll

I'm pretty sure uncharged shieldbreaker is marth's strongest "aerial" lmao

Falling wavebounced db is gorgeous for landings

Shaya give me vids of your gorgeous marth.

Shaya 100$ marth gets buffed next patch

Yeah idk how footstool to DS works since DS doesn't hit below (would be so cool if you can get people hanging at the ledge with DS) I'll have to try that but @ Shaya if it's the 74 degree angle why would that be a good thing?

I've never tried footstool to spike but it's frame 11 vs the old frame 6-7 footstool to spike so idk, it might be too slow before he rises from the jump

Of course DB tipper can kill. Ledge kills are the specialty. Since the DB3 forward buff getting it is super easy (sometimes you'd have to purposely slow it down, just make decisions on the fly). And to get the up 4 tipper all you have to do is forward DB 1,2,3 to up 4 and free tipper. Won't miss as long as they don't DI away.

Almost, Bair is still stronger but there is no denying the aerial range no one expects.

He'll be buffed. And if they have to give us the old jab (but keep the faster jab 2 transition) to get other buffs (like to landing lag, AC, bad/lack of hitboxes, dash attack, dsmash, damage in general) I'd be more than willing to make that trade.

 

[A_Kae]

Yeah idk how footstool to DS works since DS doesn't hit below (would be so cool if you can get people hanging at the ledge with DS) I'll have to try that but @ Shaya if it's the 74 degree angle why would that be a good thing?

I've never tried footstool to spike but it's frame 11 vs the old frame 6-7 footstool to spike so idk, it might be too slow before he rises from the jump

Of course DB tipper can kill. Ledge kills are the specialty. Since the DB3 forward buff getting it is super easy (sometimes you'd have to purposely slow it down, just make decisions on the fly). And to get the up 4 tipper all you have to do is forward DB 1,2,3 to up 4 and free tipper. Won't miss as long as they don't DI away.

Almost, Bair is still stronger but there is no denying the aerial range no one expects.

He'll be buffed. And if they have to give us the old jab (but keep the faster jab 2 transition) to get other buffs (like to landing lag, AC, bad/lack of hitboxes, dash attack, dsmash, damage in general) I'd be more than willing to make that trade.

Footstool to DS doesn't seem to be a thing on Marth at least. Character specific maybe? It does hit sort of below and to the front, so maybe some hurtboxes work out with this.

Footstool dair doesn't work either. If it was just a little bit quicker it would, though. It just barely misses.

I bet Marth will be overall buffed, but have Jab 1 shenanigans nerfed/removed.

Edit: On the subject of buffs/changes, what do other Marth's want the most for 1.0.10 or whatever the number will be?

 

[Vipermoon]

Footstool to DS doesn't seem to be a thing on Marth at least. Character specific maybe? It does hit sort of below and to the front, so maybe some hurtboxes work out with this.

Footstool dair doesn't work either. If it was just a little bit quicker it would, though. It just barely misses.

I bet Marth will be overall buffed, but have Jab 1 shenanigans nerfed/removed.

Edit: On the subject of buffs/changes, what do other Marth's want the most for 1.0.10 or whatever the number will be?

Lol it'll be 1.1.0.

Wanna mention that tourney mode gets here in August so we'll assume that's when the balance patch will be here.

I NEED:
-Jab 2 frame 6
-Fair frame 5
-Fair and Dair AC and landing lag
-More damage with Nair 1, Dsmash 1
-DS range to match animation, look at it at 1/4 speed, it's currently stupid

In addition to these, I WANT:
-A much faster DB1
-End lag on Utilt (for juggles), Dsmash, Dtilt, and DB down 4, and both start-up and end lag for D.A.
-New Usmash cooldown animation because the current one is twitchy and embarrassing. Even Roy doesn't use this one
-AC and landing lag on the rest of the aerials
-Utilt frames 5 and 13, Ftilt frames 7 and 12, jab 1 frames 4 and 8, jab 2 frame 7 (inc. 6), Dair frame 14, and D.A. frame 17
-More KBG on Dtilt and D.A. tippers
-The very tip of the sword on Dtilt doesn't have a hitbox covering it
-Fsmash hitboxes needs to match the animation in frame 10 because the sword goes right through their feet on Battlefield but it doesn't hit
-Damage for DB3 down and Utilt with KB reductions to balance
-Slightly better dash grab and for grab either more grab range or a new grab animation because while grab range is really good it's still misleading

The "I want" section is a pipe dream, feel free to ignore, just please don't hate me for wanting the perfect Marth.

Edit:
Give me more damage on every throw
DON'T give me KB changes and especially end lag changes to help combos because not every freakin character in this game has to have reliable throw combos. It ruins uniqueness.

Edit 2:
Uair needs a frame 10 at least. Even Roy has an 11 and 12.
Dair needs more base KB because it's pretty weak in reward for something so hard and laggy to pull off

 

[A_Kae]

Lol it'll be 1.1.0.

Wanna mention that tourney mode gets here in August so we'll assume that's when the balance patch will be here.

I NEED:
-Jab 2 frame 6
-Fair frame 5
-Fair and Dair AC and landing lag
-More damage with Nair 1, Dsmash 1
-DS range to match animation, look at it at 1/4 speed, it's currently stupid

In addition to these, I WANT:
-A much faster DB1
-End lag on Utilt (for juggles), Dsmash, Dtilt, and DB down 4, and both start-up and end lag for D.A.
-New Usmash cooldown animation because the current one is twitchy and embarrassing. Even Roy doesn't use this one
-AC and landing lag on the rest of the aerials
-Utilt frames 5 and 13, Ftilt frames 7 and 12, jab 1 frames 4 and 8, jab 2 frame 7 (inc. 6), Dair frame 14, and D.A. frame 17
-More KBG on Dtilt and D.A. tippers
-The very tip of the sword on Dtilt doesn't have a hitbox covering it
-Fsmash hitboxes needs to match the animation in frame 10 because the sword goes right through their feet on Battlefield but it doesn't hit
-Damage for DB3 down and Utilt with KB reductions to balance
-Slightly better dash grab and for grab either more grab range or a new grab animation because while grab range is really good it's still misleading

The "I want" section is a pipe dream, feel free to ignore, just please don't hate me for wanting the perfect Marth.

Software version numbering follows no logical path. Seriously. 1.1 makes sense, but I can't honestly say that I expect it to be that.

August is what I've been assuming as well. Probably mid august, that's when all the other patches for wii u have been out. August 14-18, sometimes like that.

Anyways, I find it a bit scary that that's almost exactly what I need/want for Marth.

 

[Vipermoon]

Software version numbering follows no logical path. Seriously. 1.1 makes sense, but I can't honestly say that I expect it to be that.

August is what I've been assuming as well. Probably mid august, that's when all the other patches for wii u have been out. August 14-18, sometimes like that.

Anyways, I find it a bit scary that that's almost exactly what I need/want for Marth.

True, numbering is funny sometimes.

Hopefully earlier, I can't wait. Both for the balance changes (it makes it feel like a new game and finding the changes is a game in and of itself) and because tourney mode will be a lot better than FG. It has to be.

Great minds think alike

Also please note I edited my post with my thoughts on throws, disregard if you already saw

 

[A_Kae]

True, numbering is funny sometimes.

Hopefully earlier, I can't wait. Both for the balance changes (it makes it feel like a new game and finding the changes is a game in and of itself) and because tourney mode will be a lot better than FG. It has to be.

Great minds think alike

Also please note I edited my post with my thoughts on throws, disregard if you already saw

Yeah, new patch day is always fun if you main a 'bad' character. Finding out what's changed, and thinking of new uses for stuff is great. Of course, if you main a top tier, then some kind of dread is what you would be feeling. But we use Marth, so there's nothing to fear!

I had quoted the post from before your edit, but I reloaded the page to check if you had edited something, so I did see that. Definitely agree with that. More throw damage (and maybe pummel as well?) with the same/almost the same kb would make Marth's throws legit good. Right now they just have low damage and low combo power. Not a good combination.

Edit: Tourney mode is looking to be a real replacement for FG for the more competitively minded player too. Looking forward to that.

 

[Vipermoon]

Yeah, new patch day is always fun if you main a 'bad' character. Finding out what's changed, and thinking of new uses for stuff is great. Of course, if you main a top tier, then some kind of dread is what you would be feeling. But we use Marth, so there's nothing to fear!

I had quoted the post from before your edit, but I reloaded the page to check if you had edited something, so I did see that. Definitely agree with that. More throw damage (and maybe pummel as well?) with the same/almost the same kb would make Marth's throws legit good. Right now they just have low damage and low combo power. Not a good combination.

Edit: Tourney mode is looking to be a real replacement for FG for the more competitively minded player too. Looking forward to that.

Not just that but hearing about all the other character changes and how that affects things like MUs and play styles is cool to me. But it has to end sometime because this will eventually get tiring (I see it being fine for about a year before we're gonna need to keep things constant).

Nah, I think pummel is the perfect speed for 2%.

Yeah mostly because you aren't limited to FD. As long as wait times aren't long, I see no issues. If you can get coins for winning these, even better.

 

[Shaya]

I could've easily told you footstool dair doesn't work on anyone
Vids of my trash Marth? UGHH.

I could always try doing a for glory compilation again.

 

[_Tree]

Sorry to intrude here Marths, but I've been testing a particular tech with Sheik and was wondering if everyone here knew about Marth's grounded neutral-B wavebounce? Just thought it was cool and thought you guys would like it if you didn't know of it already:

http://gfycat.com/PreciousPlainBlackbear

 

[AetherStorm]

Sorry to intrude here Marths, but I've been testing a particular tech with Sheik and was wondering if everyone here knew about Marth's grounded neutral-B wavebounce? Just thought it was cool and thought you guys would like it if you didn't know of it already:

http://gfycat.com/PreciousPlainBlackbear

That looks sick, but I have trouble pulling off wavebounces in this game. I've been using perfect pivot shield breakers instead, but it doesn't go as far.

(Jab1 into PP SB is a beautiful thing)

 

[Admiral_Dante]

Sorry to intrude here Marths, but I've been testing a particular tech with Sheik and was wondering if everyone here knew about Marth's grounded neutral-B wavebounce? Just thought it was cool and thought you guys would like it if you didn't know of it already:

http://gfycat.com/PreciousPlainBlackbear

Hmm, somehow this looks cooler than when I do it... lol.

 

[CommanderRin]

I was labbing it, really interesting for sure, Lucina slides sooooo far.

Also, try make another button do special inputs if you want to make the tech a little easier

 

[Langston777]

i can't figutre out the input for this, any help?

 

[A_Kae]

i can't figutre out the input for this, any help?

It's this: http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-tech-c-bounce.409439/#post-19713112

 

[Admiral_Dante]

I was labbing it, really interesting for sure, Lucina slides sooooo far.

Also, try make another button do special inputs if you want to make the tech a little easier

Yeah, definitely need to use a different special button for this tech. This game single handedly made me pick up the wii u pro controllers, with this tech making it official. I use the left trigger button to jump, the left "z" button for special now, the right trigger to shield, and the right "z" for grab. Honestly right now, I'm debating whether or not I want to shift my c stick to tilts, or keep them smashes... There's some sick tilt tech out there as well.

 

[A_Kae]

On the subject of control schemes, I use a pro controller as well.

A=Attack
B=Grab
X=Attack
Y=Grab
L=Grab
R=Shield
ZL=Jump
ZR=Special
R-Stick=Attack
D-Pad=Taunts
Tap Jump=Off
Attack+Special Smash=On

C-stick to attack for walking tilts, and for certain techs. ZL as jump for easier buffered aerials and jump cancels, ZR as specials for having specials and attacks on different fingers.

Honestly right now, I'm debating whether or not I want to shift my c stick to tilts, or keep them smashes... There's some sick tilt tech out there as well.

It's a preference thing, and it's your choice, but I strongly recommend that you make the switch. It'll be a bit awkward at first, but have walking tilts (especially d-tilts) is really helpful for Marth. Makes tilt techs easier/possible as well.

Again, it's your choice, but I really think it's worth it for a Marth player.

 

[Admiral_Dante]

On the subject of control schemes, I use a pro controller as well.

A=Attack
B=Grab
X=Attack
Y=Grab
L=Grab
R=Shield
ZL=Jump
ZR=Special
R-Stick=Attack
D-Pad=Taunts
Tap Jump=Off
Attack+Special Smash=On

C-stick to attack for walking tilts, and for certain techs. ZL as jump for easier buffered aerials, ZR as specials for having specials and attacks on different fingers.



It's a preference thing, and it's your choice, but I strongly recommend that you make the switch. It'll be a bit awkward at first, but have walking tilts (especially d-tilts) is really helpful for Marth. Makes tilt techs easier/possible as well.

Again, it's your choice, but I really think it's worth it for a Marth player.

Alright, good to hear from another Marth! I figure that all the time I've been putting into PP's will pay off most with c-tilts, and I just found out today that you can pivot into dtilt with c-tilts as well. Got some more lab work to do...

 

[CURRY]

Craaaap x.x
Are PPs really that useful? The way I see Marth is that he runs away kinda far (like maybe 2 foxtrot distances away), runs back, pokes a little, maybe string or juggle some hits together, then run away again. PPs don't give you that kind of distance in a short amount of time, so it can't be used for running away. Yeah, you can PP to adjust your tipper, but you can also microspace with jump and walking.

I really hope a Marth main masters PPing someday so that I can see if it will actually make a really big impact on gameplay. PPing is definitely more useful with c-stick tilts for Marth, but since I play Toon too, I would really like to keep c-stick on smash attack because it makes it a lot easier to smash-throw bombs in any direction.

I've seen Peach players in Brawl say that it takes like 5-9 minutes to adjust to B-stick/c-stick and back... so... ew...

edit:
PPing dtilt, hah, that seems cool, although still, our PP has a short slide.

hahahahahahaha our PP is so short
I'm sorry, that was childish

Question for you all: I've always used retreating dash -> pivot DB1, and it always works for me, but it FEELS really unsafe. Is it unsafe? Do you guys use it, and does it work in your favor?

Another edit, I'm such a bad skimmer. Tilt tech? Can I see some? That sounds cool, it might convince me to switch.

 

[Vipermoon]

I'm pretty classical. Black Gamecube smash edition controller with Attack stick, L set to jump (for a couple of specific things), and I use Tap Jump (almost never use Y). These controls are pretty much exactly like Zero's except the L button thing. I also use rumble and for some reason I keep A+B=Smash but never use it. Playing Smash throughout my entire life, I got pretty good at using A for Smash attacks.

 

[Admiral_Dante]

Craaaap x.x
Are PPs really that useful? The way I see Marth is that he runs away kinda far (like maybe 2 foxtrot distances away), runs back, pokes a little, maybe string or juggle some hits together, then run away again. PPs don't give you that kind of distance in a short amount of time, so it can't be used for running away. Yeah, you can PP to adjust your tipper, but you can also microspace with jump and walking.

I really hope a Marth main masters PPing someday so that I can see if it will actually make a really big impact on gameplay. PPing is definitely more useful with c-stick tilts for Marth, but since I play Toon too, I would really like to keep c-stick on smash attack because it makes it a lot easier to smash-throw bombs in any direction.

I've seen Peach players in Brawl say that it takes like 5-9 minutes to adjust to B-stick/c-stick and back... so... ew...

edit:
PPing dtilt, hah, that seems cool, although still, our PP has a short slide.

hahahahahahaha our PP is so short
I'm sorry, that was childish

Question for you all: I've always used retreating dash -> pivot DB1, and it always works for me, but it FEELS really unsafe. Is it unsafe? Do you guys use it, and does it work in your favor?

Another edit, I'm such a bad skimmer. Tilt tech? Can I see some? That sounds cool, it might convince me to switch.

Yeah, I figure the only way for me to get something out of PP is to get comfortable and use it all the time and start tilting a lot more. Definitely going to make the switch to c-tilts. D-tilt is still really good, and i need to start doing more ftilts and utilts.

The tilt tech wasn't too mindblowing, just being able to get pivot dtilts and same way facing ftilts out of dashes by pivoting back and then using the c stick forward to tilt. Haven't tested yet, but I feel like that would really help my game get more aggressive when I need it without being all yolo about it.

 

[AetherStorm]

Without c stick smash, can you still do things like stutter step fsmashes and sliding upsmashes? Those are things I use a lot.

 

[CommanderRin]

I find PPing excellent for getting Jab 1 confirms. Being able to space away from an opponent while attacking helps against cross ups from the likes of C.Falcon, Shiek and other rush down.

PP Jab is the best PP option in my opinion.
F-Tilt isn't super safe and D-tilt is easily avoidable with aerial approaches and U-tilt is similar to F-tilt. Jab's new conversions are so good...

 

[CommanderRin]

Without c stick smash, can you still do things like stutter step fsmashes and sliding upsmashes? Those are things I use a lot.

If you mean cancelling Fox-Trot into F-smash, yes and you can still Jump cancel Up-smash with out a C-stick.

What do you mean sliding?

Tilts are generally better than throwing out smash attacks anyways.

Edit: Does this count as a double post?

 

[CURRY]

Without c stick smash, can you still do things like stutter step fsmashes and sliding upsmashes? Those are things I use a lot.

• Yes for dash -> usmash. Out of dash, slam your stick up and press A.

• You can still jump-cancel your usmash just as you do with the c-stick by inputting up on your analog -> jump + A. (Man, I wish buffering uair was possible without the tilt stick)

• You can turn on A+B Smash to do foxtrot fsmash. A+B when your stick is in neutral (or side) will result in an fsmash, so simply replace-> with-> + after a foxtrot to do a stutter-step fsmash.

• Pivot fsmash to replace the pivot foxtrot fsmash, if you do that.

 

[Vipermoon]

(Man, I wish buffering uair was possible without the tilt stick)

This is a huge benefit for me. Marth's Uair barely ACs in a SH and I have to have frame perfect Uairs for Utilt follow-ups and for juggles. Attack stick FTW