Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Random4811]

Thanks for catching me up. So how do you guys use Shield Breaker? I use at least once every match. Your opponent is so conditioned to shielding that you just breaks their shield in one hit and then KO them. I was playing against my friend and wasted him with it.

Im trying to cut back on it cause I use it too much. I like it as an aerial poke but when I get flustered I have a bad habit of throwing it out randomly. I'm trying to make my gameplay more safe and more inline with the Hero-king's style.

 

[Deviruki]

Thanks for catching me up. So how do you guys use Shield Breaker? I use at least once every match. Your opponent is so conditioned to shielding that you just breaks their shield in one hit and then KO them. I was playing against my friend and wasted him with it.

I tend to use it quite a bit when I feel it's appropriate. For example, against a projectile user I might do a quick double jump over their moves and quickly charge a SB and strike them with the tip for pretty decent knockback and damage (you don't have to double jump but that's how I do it). I've used it after getting the opponent offstage, rushing to the end, double jumping back a bit and charging it so the thrust brings me forward to where they'll get back on stage. It's also pretty useful for interrupting dash attacks or just poking in general if you have a good sense of the match/player and can get away with it.

Generally speaking though, the main way I use it as mentioned firstly works more often than not actually. It's not the safest option (using it with a short hop to cover more ground) but when it works it works. Shorthopping with it I've landed a lot of tippers (for me the SB tipper is the easiest for me to land since it seems like not a lot of people respect it's range or have a good feel for it--and of course, some people shield on instinct, letting me do another tipper SB for an easy stock).

Against faster characters I rarely have the chance to get away with SBs at all. Against characters like Fox, Ness, Sheik, etc. that usually chase me down after a throw, I've been able to charge one while falling to either side of the stage and letting it go at the right time just to hit them before they get to to me for another grab or dash attack.

Some people catch on to it, some don't. *shrug*. Just depends. I tend to use SB quite a bit though.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention my main use for it! If I know they're going to tech towards me, sometimes the distance is just good enough for the SB to get them. Most times I'll punish their whiffed moves by short hopping a bit behind them starting the SB during the hop.

 

[diclonyuus]

So today I played against a Jigglypuff. I noticed her tendency to shield a lot, so I decided to mix in some shield breakers to get her to stop doing that.
Then, something happened.

I'm not even sure what it was, but it was amazing, and even moreso the second time.
(Can someone explain why the hell she flew up like a gummy ball?)

 

[Locuan]

Jigglypuff is KO'd if her shield breaks. It's a mechanic that has been in every Smash game.

 

[CanadianCourage]

puff shouldn't shield that much against marth, should through in some rolls and spot dodges.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I cannot even count how many times I have killed a Jigglypuff with sheildbreaker from noticing how often they try to shield my attacks.

 

[Ekans647]

I haven't play against many Jiggs, but the idea of SB KO'es have popped into my head before.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Is it weird that I imagine Marth as a suave ladies man? I know his personality in his games probably isn't like that in the games he is in. For anybody who has played multiple Fire Emblem games, what is your favorite FE game? The only one I have played in Sacred Stones and I have not even beat it yet.

Well I just looked at a few posts on the character competitive impressions thread and I saw a whole bunch of people misinterpreting something that I can't believe can even be misinterpreted and people getting overly defensive when somebody points out a flaw in someone's logic.

Also, @ Emblem Lord I have been seeing a few of your posts on other threads, and some of the things you say are pretty funny to me.

 

[Random4811]

Is it weird that I imagine Marth as a suave ladies man? I know his personality in his games probably isn't like that in the games he is in. For anybody who has played multiple Fire Emblem games, what is your favorite FE game? The only one I have played in Sacred Stones and I have not even beat it yet.

Well I just looked at a few posts on the character competitive impressions thread and I saw a whole bunch of people misinterpreting something that I can't believe can even be misinterpreted and people getting overly defensive when somebody points out a flaw in someone's logic.

Also, @ Emblem Lord I have been seeing a few of your posts on other threads, and some of the things you say are pretty funny to me.

He is a ladies man, but he is very polite and friendly and respectful.

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol

Marth is married

 

[Random4811]

lol

Marth is married

He wasnt in his first game.
He gets married in mystery of the emblem tho to his precious wife

 

[Quickhero]

He wasnt in his first game.
He gets married in mystery of the emblem tho to his precious wife

Spoilers to FE:12 even though it is shown at the very beginning at the game and it doesn't matter unless you're sad that your OTP didn't come true.

Spoiler

Marth will always be married to Caeda no matter what. Gotta keep that blue hair lineage man. Though I really like Marth x Caeda anyways. :3

EDIT: I misread precious as previous..... Well, knowledge is still knowledge. :3

 

[Emblem Lord]

The outfit Marth wears in this game is from the Mystery of the Emblem remake released in Japan only. So I take that to mean he is already married or at least engaged.

 

[kj22]

The outfit Marth wears in this game is from the Mystery of the Emblem remake released in Japan only. So I take that to mean he is already married or at least engaged.

Emblem Lord critique my marth play ;c I got a major tourney this weekend and I want it to be in tip top shape (check the marth video thread)

 

[Locuan]

Emblem Lord critique my marth play ;c I got a major tourney this weekend and I want it to be in tip top shape (check the marth video thread)

Wait, you are going to TGC right?

 

[kj22]

Wait, you are going to TGC right?

I am(:

 

[Locuan]

I am(:

I was able to find transportation for the event on Saturday so I'm going to be there as well.

 

[kj22]

Yaaaay I look forward to seeing you there!
Entering doubles?

 

[Locuan]

Yaaaay I look forward to seeing you there!
Entering doubles?

I want to enter doubles. And yea I'm looking forward to it!

 

[Langston777]

http://webmshare.com/done/9WDyv

we tech those tho

 

[Ekans647]

So thanks a bunch to @ Emblem Lord , @ Locuan , and @ JingleJangleJamil for helping me improve my Marth! I've been approaching far less, using my tilts to frame trap, aerials to punish and overall am playing much more patiently. By not being as aggressive, I've been able to bait and punish far better. Not only has my Marth improved, but my overall gameplay as well!

 

[Locuan]

I'm glad I could help out. Also, I met @ kj22 yesterday. His Marth is great.

 

[Ekans647]

I've uploaded some of my Marth matches online. It's only for 3DS though, but if you guys could critique it that would be great.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

No problem dude! That is why we are here! I notice lately I have been giving a lot of people advice on how to play better.

 

[kj22]

Met @ Locuan at TGC, had a great talk with him. Unfortunately didn't get to see him play/play him at all though, but he saw my matches.

Ended up getting 13 out of 209, went sonic some mu for a game or so just to see how it felt. Played against Trelas robin and it was recorded, I'll try to link that to the boards when it goes up. Did well but felt like I couldve placed higher (SD against BC villager game 2 with 10 sec left).

In dubs using marth was very tough. 2v1s are very difficult with him, and spacing is even crazier with 3 other bodies to keep track of. Shieldbreaker however shines pretty brightly since there's a lot of situations where opponents are forced to shield or risk punishment. I went sonic later in the doubles bracket and we did much better(partner was peach)

@ Locuan was using Lucina for dubs I believe, and gave some reasons why he preferred her over marth, maybe you can share them again with the boards?

 

[Locuan]

Met @ Locuan at TGC, had a great talk with him. Unfortunately didn't get to see him play/play him at all though, but he saw my matches.

Ended up getting 13 out of 209, went sonic some mu for a game or so just to see how it felt. Played against Trelas robin and it was recorded, I'll try to link that to the boards when it goes up. Did well but felt like I couldve placed higher (SD against BC villager game 2 with 10 sec left).

In dubs using marth was very tough. 2v1s are very difficult with him, and spacing is even crazier with 3 other bodies to keep track of. Shieldbreaker however shines pretty brightly since there's a lot of situations where opponents are forced to shield or risk punishment. I went sonic later in the doubles bracket and we did much better(partner was peach)

@ Locuan was using Lucina for dubs I believe, and gave some reasons why he preferred her over marth, maybe you can share them again with the boards?

Oh that's great kj. 13th of 209 people is an amazing result. As for why I believe using Lucina in double's is better, I can mention that later on after work. But as a notice, if both people in a team are completely in synch with each other what I will say should not matter at all.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I wouldnt say shes better. You just dont have to sweat completely annihilating your partner at some obscenely low percent with an accidental tipper.

Though that is remedied with less f-smash.

 

[Locuan]

I wouldnt say shes better. You just dont have to sweat completely annihilating your partner at some obscenely low percent with an accidental tipper.

Though that is remedied with less f-smash.

This is pretty much it, combined with the fact that in doubles it might be more difficult to successfully space your moves. However, again it should not be a problem if you are in synch with your teammate. @ kj22 had a few tipper kills against his teammate on the tournament so it pretty much worked at their disadvantage.

 

[kj22]

Yeah I see what you're both saying. And like you've said, better synergy will help allievate the problem.
And @ Emblem Lord and @ Locuan (and whomever else who wants to) if you want, can you critique my match vs slush in the video critique thread? Trying to get as much feedback as possible.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I don't really know anything about Marth in doubles since I always use Falcon for doubles, but I do think you would definitely have to be more careful with with your teammate using him than if you were using Lucina. I think if you play carefully and try to avoid getting your teammate killed as much as possible he could be better. Anyways, who else thinks Falcon teamed up with Marth could be a very great team.

 

[Locuan]

Anyways, who else thinks Falcon teamed up with Marth could be a very great team.

@ Shaya and I can say for certain that it works pretty well

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I have been experimenting with Marth's up air. I have found that up air can be VERY useful for starting combos when you FF fall. I have seen @Gawain use it like this in some of his videos where he uses Marth, but I have not seen him do more than up air into DB. One of its best uses is FF up air into the ground > up tilt > up smash/up air/maybe a few other options. The FF up air into the ground > up tilt is even counted as a true combo by the training mode combo counter! Have you guys already known about this? I never hear anybody talk about using up air like this and I never see Marth players besides Gawain use it. I hope you guys didn't already know cause I want to be able to say I taught you guys about a potentially very useful tool with Marth that can maybe even change the way he is played? I doubt it would have any major changes on the way Marth is played, but who knows?

Edit: http://smashboards.com/threads/marths-trap-primer-final-version-item-drop-trap-added.388997/ Well that was shut down pretty quick lol. I still find it weird that I have never heard anybody talk about it or use it like this until now.

 

[Nike.]

Cool to see kj again and nice to meet locuan at TGC!

 

[Locuan]

Yea @ Nike. nice meeting you as well. After I started going to tournaments here in Texas I noticed how huge the scene is here. I don't know how it is in other states but being originally from Puerto Rico, the difference is staggering. A monthly or major tournament over there would have the attendance that weeklies have over here. It's crazy.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Someone said they use Lucina instead of Marth because she has more range than Marth on one of my threads...wut.

 

[Locuan]

Someone said they use Lucina instead of Marth because she has more range than Marth on one of my threads...wut.

Did you correct them? Tell them to test it out on an opponent on battlefields platform. Marth will hit with tipper f-smash while Lucina can't.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Did you correct them? Tell them to test it out on an opponent on battlefields platform. Marth will hit with tipper f-smash while Lucina can't.

Yeah I did correct them. I just felt like sharing that with you guys, but I didn't want to mention their name since that would just be a **** move. Also look what I just found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb3N01lm6P8

 

[Ekans647]

So I've been having great success using Shield Breaker and Dancing Blade. In the neutral, I'll occasionally use Dancing Blade to bait my opponent into approaching, only to punish them with the 3rd and 4th downward stoke. With smart usage of Dancing Blade, I'll condition them to shield more often. This tactic has great synergy with Shield Breaker. Once my opponent is conditioned into shielding, I'll attack with Shield Breaker and more often than not break their shield. After this. I generally get a KO. This tactic has won me many matches.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Is it weird that I have trouble spacing correctly against a character with a large hurtbox and a much easier time with small hurtboxes? I don't know to me it just sounds backwards considering it is normally more difficult to hit a small target. Anyways, what do you guys do when a player is constantly in your face and you have no real way to hit someone with a tipper? It sucks that Marth has no real way to be aggressive in this game, because if he were the way he was in Brawl my opponent would be taking two fairs when they get too close to me.

 

[Ekans647]

Is it weird that I have trouble spacing correctly against a character with a large hurtbox and a much easier time with small hurtboxes? I don't know to me it just sounds backwards considering it is normally more difficult to hit a small target. Anyways, what do you guys do when a player is constantly in your face and you have no real way to hit someone with a tipper? It sucks that Marth has no real way to be aggressive in this game, because if he were the way he was in Brawl my opponent would be taking two fairs when they get too close to me.

Not really. When you have a small target, you're spacing at a very specific point. This means that your attacks will connect almost exactly as you want them. Against larger characters, we aren't aiming at a specific point, maiming that are attacks are more inconsistent. We have a mentality that we just have to hit large characters, when in reality it even more important that ever to space our tippers properly in order to ensure the KO. Without proper spacing, it becomes far harder to KO large characters.

tl;dr - Aim small, miss small.