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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

Scar

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
thumbswayup said:
Grab from behind *****

Wes the dair timing is trickier, you'll notice a lot of Falcons still miss it sometimes. The grab's like guaranteed
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ryankam10 said:
usually doesnt work his utilt at the very least trades with it, at least 90% of the time
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dair OoS punishes way harder

if the beginning part of the dash attack hits CF's shield dair OoS always works and is the best option at any % over like 40

people have made careers out of doing this
 
ryankam10

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
Scar said:
dair OoS punishes way harder

if the beginning part of the dash attack hits CF's shield dair OoS always works and is the best option at any % over like 40

people have made careers out of doing this
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it doesnt work if they dash attack past you
dash attacking on shield is ******** to begin with but the falcos who are slightly more smart would dash attack so that they end up behind you... thus you get hit with the utilt as soon as they input it... can you dair oos punish a falco dash attack if he goe spast you? I've tried so many times but I'm pretty sure utilt at the very least clashes with it
 
ryankam10

ryankam10

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Messages
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Winston said:
^ You ever consider that you're not timing your dair correctly?

The falco will still be in lag from the dash attack when your dair hits him if you do it right.
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"timing it not correctly" implies I'm doing it too late... which could be the case for all I know, it's just that dairing oos isn't a terribly tech intensive thing to do ... >_>

Are you absolutely sure that it doesn't trade? Dair isn't exactly the fastest move, this is exactly the same reason why u cant dair oos a marth dash attack, because both marth and falco have super fast, high priority utilts...
 
Tomacawk

Tomacawk

Smash Master
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Sep 10, 2007
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3,783
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Central IL
no ryan, you're probably doing it too soon
timing it correctly doesn't mean doing it as fast as possible, and it doesn't mean doing it late. It means inputting your moves so that they start up and go active during the time that your opponent is vulnerable.
For example, if you stomp a fastfaller at 70% and want to uair to knee them, you short hop, wait as long as you can, and then fastfall uair to maximize the effective hit stun and allow yourself to get the subsequent knee (if they DI'd wrong).
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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blah you people

assuming Dash Attack hits frame 8, the last frame the 9 damage hitbox is active, frame advantage from Falco's perspective

Dash Attack IASA's frame 36.

36-8 = 28 frames of endlag. -28
9 damage = 6 frames of shieldstun. +6
Captain Falcon Jump OoS JumpSquat 4 frames. +4
Captain Falcon Dair input frame 1 of airborne, hitbox comes out frame 17. +16

-28 + 6 + 4 + 16 = -2. You have a 2 frame window to SH Dair out of shield assuming Falco's able to hit on frame 8 and not frames 4-7 or 9-17 where shieldstun would only be 4 and he'd be coming at you with dash attack for a while and probably not end up behind you.
Up-Tilt comes out frame 5 so that's -7 vs. SH Dair OoS if you try it after dash attack.
 
ryankam10

ryankam10

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Strong Bad said:
blah you people

assuming Dash Attack hits frame 8, the last frame the 9 damage hitbox is active, frame advantage from Falco's perspective

Dash Attack IASA's frame 36.

36-8 = 28 frames of endlag. -28
9 damage = 6 frames of shieldstun. +6
Captain Falcon Jump OoS JumpSquat 4 frames. +4
Captain Falcon Dair input frame 1 of airborne, hitbox comes out frame 17. +16

-28 + 6 + 4 + 16 = -2. You have a 2 frame window to SH Dair out of shield assuming Falco's able to hit on frame 8 and not frames 4-7 or 9-17 where shieldstun would only be 4 and he'd be coming at you with dash attack for a while and probably not end up behind you.
Up-Tilt comes out frame 5 so that's -7 vs. SH Dair OoS if you try it after dash attack.
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sigh
thanks for the math lol. i guess ill have to try it sometime again. i basically got conditioned to the point where I just stopped trying to do it lol
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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WD OoS turnaround jab is 1 frame faster if you want to go for that!

I'd shorthop with c-stick and input the dair with down + A if you want to give SH dair a shot again.

Just remember that Dash Attack's hitlag is 6 frames and it has 6 frames of shieldstun. While Falco is also in hitlag, you do have to keep that in mind when you think about timing your SH. Do it frame 13 after getting hit in the shield.
 
MikeHaggarTHAKJB

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

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Strong Bad said:
blah you people

assuming Dash Attack hits frame 8, the last frame the 9 damage hitbox is active, frame advantage from Falco's perspective

Dash Attack IASA's frame 36.

36-8 = 28 frames of endlag. -28
9 damage = 6 frames of shieldstun. +6
Captain Falcon Jump OoS JumpSquat 4 frames. +4
Captain Falcon Dair input frame 1 of airborne, hitbox comes out frame 17. +16

-28 + 6 + 4 + 16 = -2. You have a 2 frame window to SH Dair out of shield assuming Falco's able to hit on frame 8 and not frames 4-7 or 9-17 where shieldstun would only be 4 and he'd be coming at you with dash attack for a while and probably not end up behind you.
Up-Tilt comes out frame 5 so that's -7 vs. SH Dair OoS if you try it after dash attack.
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how do you figure out the shieldhitstun for moves? iirc theres an equation or something for it. would appreciate if you could tell me that. thanks in advance =)
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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Divinokage said:
I know it's useless to some people.. however some people benefit from it as they can only understand smash as a math game.
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I don't know, I don't get to play people as often as I like so rather than simply beating up on lvl 1 CPU's (which I do) I also study how the game functions at the core. Of course, whether you have frame advantage or not, something can easily work due to positional and situational pressure as well as the mental aspect of the game (reading etc., you know what I'm talkin' about Kage). Almost every player are where they are due to experience and "feeling" what to do. Comboing is also based a lot on feel outside of bread n' butter simply because of how dynamic the stale moves system is and its affect on hitstun. I'm also in an excellent position to learn about Melee's mechanics due to working on Project M for over a year and working with Magus on stuff.
blah I'm rambling. I like frame data.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB said:
how do you figure out the shieldhitstun for moves? iirc theres an equation or something for it. would appreciate if you could tell me that. thanks in advance =)
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Shieldstun = floor({4.45 + Damage}/2.235)
Where damage is the Hitbox's damage after staling. Floor means to round down regardless of what's after the decimal. This spreadsheet does the work for you, though.
 
JPOBS

JPOBS

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Mogwai said:
alternately, it's awesome because then someone can prove my point via science rather than someone having to take my word that, yes, in fact, scar stomps me out of shield literally any time I dash attack his shield and that's how 99.9% of his knees vs. me happen.
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For science.
 
Mokumo

Mokumo

Smash Ace
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May 6, 2007
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885
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Boston, Massachusetts
kage try getting that combo down with ganon... now THAT would be impressive! i think it's impossible though ganon's down B is too **** for such a silly combo
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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Montreal, Quebec
Mokumo said:
kage try getting that combo down with ganon... now THAT would be impressive! i think it's impossible though ganon's down B is too **** for such a silly combo
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Lol, omg.. I don't think you can link a down-B to anything haha. I can do things into down B but never things after even at 40 and some percent. Lower than that is way too risky =P
 
Shroomed

Shroomed

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Feb 5, 2008
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Santa Cruz
s2j said:
for both sticks hold towards the edge and you will tech almost everything unless u are suking

==

Lord as solid as he is has 0 business being in grand finals, even rank 5-7 socal can probably easily **** whats left of norcal now except maybe shroomed.

No silentspectre, no lucien, no pewpewu, scar is sandbagging

pitiful region lol
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I just saw this Johnny, wtf man!

I'm going to destroy all of socal for you saying that, except Zhu/Joey. The rest are FREEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah I'm back into cocky mode.

And apparently Oscar ****s on all of you guys now from what I can see.

COME AT ME BRO.

On topic: Falcon has manly thighs and Blood Hawk falcon is the best looking.
 
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