Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Divinokage]

Learn to play Ganon vs ICs rofl =P It's so easy!

 

[ETWIST51294]

Fair >>> ICs

 

[ETWIST51294]

uhh.. i could go on for ever about this. Long story short - I hate him because most of the CF community whines about how bad their character is and yet he's my worst match up. I probably dislike falcon mains more so than the character.

Vanz hates us.

 

[Roneblaster]

its ok though cause he has my shy-guy dropzone as his sig.

falcon sux.

lol one my friend tried to tell me he didnt understand why falcon sucked, because all falcons moves are so good.

i stopped before he even got the "good" out.
Friend: "dude all of falcons move are so g..."
Reneblade: "BAD"
then i proceeded to set him straight.


your BG is fine luke

 

[Winston]

Vanz has a point though, it's pretty silly that legions of mediocre falcon mains love to say that falcon sucks at every opportunity because Scar made it cool or something.

I mean he's either tied for 6th or 7th best character out of ~ 14 viable characters. Yeah he "sucks" compared to the best characters, but plenty of people play chars who are worse and they are rarely as vocal about it.

 

[R00R]

Are people really complaining about the IC matchup?
Play really patient (dont get grabbed), seperate, and ****; just watch Azen vs Chudat
All Azen does is Knee, Stomp, and Raptor Boost; and chu gets *****.

 

[R00R]

Vanz has a point though, it's pretty silly that legions of mediocre falcon mains love to say that falcon sucks at every opportunity because Scar made it cool or something.

I mean he's either tied for 6th or 7th best character out of ~ 14 viable characters. Yeah he "sucks" compared to the best characters, but plenty of people play chars who are worse and they are rarely as vocal about it.

Captain Falcon so goooood but it can be hard to realize that when you get your salad tossed by sheik and falco.

I think Falcon fan boys just cant get over his mediocer recovery and the fact that he gets gimped by everyone in the cast, wich hardly matters when you can 0-death every character.

Playing really good falcons can be really gay,
Oh ****, I got grabbed.... combocombocombocombocombodead... ****

Ever tried playing a good Falcon as Ganon? One hit and your dead basicaly.

Nair's hit box is huge and combos into everything.
Retreating nair has awesome priority.
He has an amazing grab game, Uthrow and Dthrow are broken.
Stomp cant be CC and has so much hit stun its stupid.
Every move combos into knee... including its self. Possible the best combo finisher in the game.
With good DI a falcon can be harder to kill then a lot of other characters.

Falcon is gay. YEAH I SAID IT!

/rant

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Of course! This game is gay, an as captain falcon is part of this game...

when we say gay, we mean comparitively gay. Sheik is certainly far gayer than captain falcon, but weak knee gimps, etc, are still plenty gay.

Pretty much every character does gay stuff to win. With the exception of like...mewtwo...

 

[thumbswayup]

The thing about Captain Falcon is that if you're facing one of the top tier characters you have to play SO much smarter than your opponent to win. The spacies both have auto combos once they land one simple hit or grab on Falcon, which can easily lead to death without much effort. Meanwhile Falcon's gotta know where they're going most of the time to combo them to death and ONE mistake will lead to your death. And Sheik is just ******** all she has to do is grab and she wins, Marth isn't so bad except for those painfully easy gimps. The point I'm trying to make is that Falcon isn't a bad character, more that he is not an easy one to learn or use. You must be incredibly fast and impeccable to win, and I mean mother ****ing impeccable.

 

[Jartravious]

Can you really not CC the stomp? I swear I have seen it done.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

that was a hot combo thumbs

 

[thumbswayup]

Thanks, I was having way too much fun in those matches using upsmash. So much so that I went for dairs after every single one even though they never connected. I wasn't wary of the percent at times, just tried to go for flash instead of double kneeing him after every upsmash lol

 

[R00R]

The thing about Captain Falcon is that if you're facing one of the top tier characters you have to play SO much smarter than your opponent to win. The spacies both have auto combos once they land one simple hit or grab on Falcon, which can easily lead to death without much effort. Meanwhile Falcon's gotta know where they're going most of the time to combo them to death and ONE mistake will lead to your death.

This holds true for shiek and maybe marth but I believe space animals are more difficult to learn then falcon. One error with them and you are easily gimped. You need to play really smart to apply proper shield pressure with fox and falco; it is also far from easy to do. This is assuming they play agro and dont camp your **** off.

Marth has some easy automatic combos on falcon, but falcon has some easy automitic combos on marth (Uthrow/Dthrow knee). The match up is so close that it really comes down to the players.

Shiek is stupid but we all already know that.

With falcon you just need to avoid getting hit, space properly, and punish openings. Nothing with him is really all that difficult, he just takes patience and accuracy.
Mindgames help too.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Falcon gets ***** harder than spacies when hit: FACT

Falcon has only one solid approach while spacies con approach with almost no consequences: FACT

Spacies have ******** autocombos (esp. Falco): FACT

Falcon is sexy: FACT

 

[thumbswayup]

Don't forget spacies have auto egdeguards whereas Falcon does not.

 

[Nocturnalist]

whos complaining about the iC match up? i dont understand

 

[pockyD]

bears eat beets

 

[Roneblaster]

stomp, knee, and raptor boost only DOES NOT WORK ON ICs. that worked 4 years ago.

its an insult to IC players everywhere to say that works. and id be willing to guess that im one of the few ppl that post in this thread that actually has an IC main in their crew.

just play marth vs ICs you dont have to do anything, just dont fsmash into their shield and you win.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I go Ganon against ICs.

 

[R00R]

stomp, knee, and raptor boost only DOES NOT WORK ON ICs. that worked 4 years ago.

its an insult to IC players everywhere to say that works. and id be willing to guess that im one of the few ppl that post in this thread that actually has an IC main in their crew.

just play marth vs ICs you dont have to do anything, just dont fsmash into their shield and you win.

Obviously dont only use those 3 moves... but they are very usefull in that match up.
I do have a lot of IC expierence from lots of different IC players.


And Yes ganon ***** IC.

 

[PEEF!]

stomp, knee, and raptor boost only DOES NOT WORK ON ICs. that worked 4 years ago.

its an insult to IC players everywhere to say that works. and id be willing to guess that im one of the few ppl that post in this thread that actually has an IC main in their crew.

This is actually right. The entire IC metagame vs Falcon changed from "work out of shield" after that time. Before that time period, Chu just ***** the heck out of every Falcon because Falcon gets chaingrabbed so he didnt even worry about it. But things changed and falcon has to do alot alot right. ICs are constantly focused on intercepting falcons approaches, and if you get caught you die. Uair, wd utilt, nair and dash attack all combo into deathgrabs and are quicker than everything falcon has besides nair which can be shieldgrabbed if even slightly misplaced.

Bair and Fsmash are also hella good for catching Falcon out of his jumps and approaches, and they put falcon in terrible positions.

The latest thing in the IC metagame is Shield SDIing Falcons raptor boost to shieldgrab it. It really isnt stupidly hard, and you can look forward to the new school IC mains doing it alot.

I personally think this matchup is the easiest in the high tiers besides Sheik for the ICs, and I have played good falcons. Just this week I played the Falcons of Dorkrain, F-Zero, Strawhat, ActionBasterd, ColBol, Pr0ject, Hunbrybox, and was competitive with or beat every single one, and I wouldn't say I was a "better player" than any of these guys.

Yeah, Knee, Stomp and Raptor Boost are good, but the ICs have every tool in the world to catch falcon out of them, and it only takes one per stock.

just play marth vs ICs you dont have to do anything, just dont fsmash into their shield and you win.

This...not so fast. The IC vs Marth MU is moving more favorably for ICs with new grab mixups, edgeguards, and a better collective understanding of the matchup. Still a bad MU, but not an easy one for marth. Just ask G$

EDIT: Oh, and Ganon ***** ICs...but again, new school IC players are figuring that one out too. Give us...6-8 months and it will be a really close MU. Ganon's game is powerful, but entirely counterable with our quick intercepting nairs and bairs, and new belay OoS>bliz and DD>Bliz stuff.

 

[ETWIST51294]

F-Zero's outta retirement?

 

[PEEF!]

F-Zero's outta retirement?

Perhaps just for the summer.

He gave Husband the absolute business this weekend.

 

[Milos]

bears eat beets

Bears. Beets.

Battlestar Galactica

 

[ETWIST51294]

Husband? Whaaaaat? I need to pay attention to smash more.

 

[Pr0jecT]

I'm not saying Stomp, Knee, and Raptor Boost are the ONLY moves you should use. PEEF caught onto my playstyle in tournament. At first my Raptor Boosts were catching his mistimed grabs. Later though he started to just punish the **** outa it. I had to switch it up and started to use mainly stomps and knees.

Uair counters stomps, and Fsmashs can counter knees. The matchup more or less comes down to mistakes. Its hard to grab a smart Falcon, and if they can DI outa chainthrows its even HARDER to beat them.

Stomp, Knee, and Raptor Boost all do excellent jobs at Spacing and Separating IC's. Just spamming them isn't going to win you the match though. Bair is great too.

 

[Winston]

The thing about Captain Falcon is that if you're facing one of the top tier characters you have to play SO much smarter than your opponent to win.
(....)
The point I'm trying to make is that Falcon isn't a bad character, more that he is not an easy one to learn or use. You must be incredibly fast and impeccable to win, and I mean mother ****ing impeccable.

Yeah I pretty much agree with this. I know top tiers are easier/better. But seriously, people play characters who are lower than falcon too. That was my main point... I guess I'm just trying to say that it's not super cool to say "Falcon sucks" all the time.

Perhaps just for the summer.

He gave Husband the absolute business this weekend.

Yeah Husband's been playing again, but I think Falcon is one of his worst matchups honestly...

 

[Roneblaster]

i hate hate hate not being able to grab.

ICs suck

 

[ChivalRuse]

Uair counters stomps, and Fsmashs can counter knees. The matchup more or less comes down to mistakes. Its hard to grab a smart Falcon, and if they can DI outa chainthrows its even HARDER to beat them.

Falcon can't escape ICs' chain grabs with regular DI, and for the most part no one can really SDI out consistently either.

 

[chiZZLeSD]

i hate hate hate not being able to grab.

ICs suck

kill that betch.then you can grab

 

[ETWIST51294]

Pick Ganon, fair dat betch.

 

[Divinokage]

New school ICs are figuring out Ganon.. since when? I didn't see anything like that.. All I saw is them getting 3-4 stocked non-stopped by me! =D Unless an ICs becomes at least Chu level then I don't think any ICs will be able to defeat either me or Linguini =P

Edit: I'm really curious as to which standards these ICs players are using, bhahaha!

 

[n0ne]

yeah i 2nd that. its real hard for iceys to do something to Ganon with right spacing, especially since almost every attack desynchs/synchs them back. unless they grab u , but thats normal nowadays. Falcon has a much rougher time vs iceys because hes a ffer. I personally dont have trouble vs them.

 

[Deleted member]

Falcon can't escape ICs' chain grabs with regular DI, and for the most part no one can really SDI out consistently either.

i can SDI out of it but it often involves me looking like a fool in the process in front of a big crowd of people which makes me want to take the pain instead

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falcon gets ***** harder than spacies when hit: FACT

Falcon has only one solid approach while spacies con approach with almost no consequences: FACT

Spacies have ******** autocombos (esp. Falco): FACT

Falcon is sexy: FACT

Fox's approach is severely overrated.

I think Falcon is probably the most frustrating character to play. He has moments of epic glory. But not all the time. And often he's getting wrecked. It's especially painful (IMHO) to learn him.

Falco is similar in that he's excruciatingly frustrating to learn but at least with Falco you can tap X/Y + B + down ad infinitum and have some feeling of control or something sometimes.

 

[Roneblaster]

you see KK alot of what you say is true, but people should be smart enough to know that.

so i just say "falcon sucks"

he doesnt really suck, not compared to the whole cast, but when compared to only the tourney viable ones......................turrbile.....thats just turrible. hes like 6th/10ish.

6th best out of 26 (or however many characters there are in this game, its ****in 2am and i dont give a ****) that looks good

but 6 out of 10ish tourney viable characters? that sucks (Jiggs Falco Sheik Fox Marth Peach Falcon Ganon ICs Samus)


edit


chivals sig is still the funniest thing ever

 

[PEEF!]

Falcon can't escape ICs' chain grabs with regular DI, and for the most part no one can really SDI out consistently either.

Suprisingly, there were about 2 or 3 falcons that got out of mine. Hbox got out like every single time. IDK but hes weird and it made no sense.

As far as Ganon, usually the ICs are totally wrecked by Ftilt, jab and Fair alone. With more widespread use of DD>blizzard and Belay OoS blizzard, we don't have to worry so much about his spacing on shield, because if the blizzard hits, we get at very least an utilt>uairs or Usmash>uairs, if not a grab that will be death with wobbling, or probable death without wobbling. IC players know not to try to fit themselves in between fairs and jabs anymore, and we know to DD bliz when ganon just tries to low tilt ftilt all the time. SideB isnt that big of a factor, and DownB is the most punishable thing in the world.

I am not suggesting that a whole bunch of ICs are gonna start beating you and Linguini, haha. There are so few ICs on that level. Probably just Chu, Wobbles and Fly. I am saying that at all matchup levels, ICs will learn to deal BETTER with Ganon. However, I think Fly will be the one to start scaring high level Ganons out of thinking it is an auto win.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I seriously think what sets Mango, Hbox, and Armada apart from everyone else is their crazy SDI.

 

[Strong Badam]

I think Falcon fan boys just cant get over his mediocer recovery and the fact that he gets gimped by everyone in the cast, wich hardly matters when you can 0-death every character.

Yeah, sure, Falcon can 0-death everyone (except of course Jigglypuff and IC's... and bad chars that don't matter), but against fast-fallers you pretty much have to outright guess at where they're going to tech. 0-deaths aren't even close to being guaranteed as Falcon, ever, whereas Marth, Fox, IC's or Donkey Kong (yeah, shut up) can get a grab against a spacy and get at least 60% off if not a KO via edgeguard instantly.
How does Falcon's recovery not matter? You act as if he just never gets hit off the stage because he's always 0-deathing his opponent as soon as they spawn. If this were true, everyone would be using Falcon. He works hard to get 0-deaths and it can be tied up by a low% gimp by like... anyone.

Nair's hit box is huge and combos into everything.

...

Retreating nair has awesome priority.

Wait, what?

nair has priority.

what da fucckkk

He has an amazing grab game, Uthrow and Dthrow are broken.

dthrow is so broken it rarely combos into anything against good DI.

Stomp cant be CC and has so much hit stun its stupid.

do you just know nothing about this game?

Every move combos into knee... including its self. Possible the best combo finisher in the game.

rest is definitely worse than Knee, yup. you're bad.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falcon can tech chase reaction style a la Sheik on space animals and hit regrabs ad infinitum, the tricky bit is that unlike Sheik he doesn't have dash attack launcher to get him free kill setup once he grinds regrabs into KO percent.

So he has to guess (or "read", if people like that word more) at some point. None of that U-throw F-smash Silence bullcrap here, we're assuming proper anti-Falcon-combo DI. He may even need to guess (or read) more than once, depending on what he hits, but he needs to get a non-guaranteed hit at least once.

He can make up for this somewhat by taking advantage of the nature of tech chasing (if they ever go to the edge they get trapped to high hell and lose half their options, etc.), which is kind of what Marth does sometimes, but his ultimate flaw is that he's going to have to guess and then if he misses, enjoy working to get that opening again.